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BAA To Sell Edinburgh Airport  
User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7525 posts, RR: 3
Posted (2 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3962 times:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-15367555

This is a bit of a surprise.

Everyone was expecting Glasgow to go.

Do you think that BA's expansion there was a major factor.

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesimpsondude From UK - Scotland, joined May 2010, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3955 times:

Im really surprised at this too.
Edinburgh is the airport that has seen major growth over the last few years. Its also the airport with a large inbound market.


User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3937 times:

I have an EDI Airport BAA booklet from 1971 detailing their future expansion plans. Took me 38 years to return and see them.


Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3922 times:

Wow, I would have thought GLA would have been sold.

User currently offlineJack From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 116 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3876 times:

I think we are all a bit surprised on this one.

A couple of thoughts:
i) Perhaps they know that they have sold out to Ryanair at EDI at a low price so no profit
ii) EDI may need more infrastructure improvements in the near term?


User currently offlinesimpsondude From UK - Scotland, joined May 2010, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3864 times:

Quoting Jack (Reply 4):
Perhaps they know that they have sold out to Ryanair at EDI at a low price so no profit

Ryanair are currently trying to open a base at GLA though


User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3864 times:

I am surprised too but I guess GLA has the largest number of long haul routes and Glasgow is the biggest population centre in Scotland and the third largest city in the UK. I think BA sees the biggest growth potential here.

Unfortunately EDI requires a huge expansion and runway extension to be able to handle similar long haul operations, whilst GLA is pretty much set up in that respect.

So this leaves BAA with:

LHR
STN
GLA
SOU
ABZ



Next Flights: LGW-SVG (738-DY), SVG-LHR (319-BA), LHR-HKG (388-BA), HKG-SYD (333-CX), SYD-HKG (333-CX), HKG-LHR (388-BA)
User currently offlineLHR27C From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 1279 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3849 times:

Don't forget that trying to sell assets in this market isn't easy, and BAA had to sell one of EDI or GLA. At least they can be sure to get a decent price for EDI.


Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned forever skyward
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3226 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 3712 times:

Quoting simpsondude (Reply 5):
Ryanair are currently trying to open a base at GLA though

No they're not, they're exploring the option of inbound city breaks from offshore bases into GLA rather than stwick (PIK / EGPK), United Kingdom">PIK. It also helps to put the fear factor into stwick (PIK / EGPK), United Kingdom">PIK. Unless someone can give MO'L a monetary reason to choose GLA over stwick (PIK / EGPK), United Kingdom">PIK, stwick (PIK / EGPK), United Kingdom">PIK wins.Given they've been flying for free for virtually 17 years, I doubt an introductory rate at BAA Glasgow can match that. It's not quite the same size of market as LPL and MAN that oculd support both, it's more like having a base at both BHD and BFS !

BA does not see market growth at GLA, you are misunderstanding what's happening. The Glasgow to London market is stagnant and has been declining for years, PIK-STN ends next weekend, used to be multiple daily flights. The removal of the loss making bmi operation of 5 daily A319s caused the GLA-LHR market price to go up, only on Heathrow mind. What BA are doing is returning some capacity into the market that they have removed over the last five years, even at that, the size of GLA-LHR is still going to be smaller year on year given the removal of bmi's approx 10,000 weekly seats. This is consolodation of a market in long term decline



[Edited 2011-10-19 04:00:36]

User currently offlineedina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 743 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3615 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 8):
BA does not see market growth at GLA, you are misunderstanding what's happening.

Strange.....not what the head of the UK Domestic operation was saying just 48 hours ago - yields up (particularly on LHR & LCY), the West Coast rail upgrade has had it's effect & BA are more than happy with how the GLA-LON routes are performing in the current climate.



Just a shame it's not GLA being sold......BAA staff at GLA need a boot up the backside where attitudes are concerned & the recent changes with the new security hall leading directly into the BAA retail operation are a pain...there is no quick way to the gate any more. LGW has changed for the better as a leaner & revitalised operation, & GLA could do with the same stimulus.



Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
User currently offlinenighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5134 posts, RR: 33
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3508 times:

I'm not surprised to see this decision to be honest, it could have gone either way, with there being many advantages of selling either airport. Dont forget BAA's Scottish offices are based at Glasgow Airport, so selling GLA would have involved an office move.

As mentioned by others, Edinburgh Airport needs significant investment. Prior to the recession, the government white paper called for a new runway to be needed at Edinburgh by 2013 to allow for growth, obviously this is no longer required quite as soon, but will be needed in future. Glasgow on the other hand, did not require a new runway for the significant future. Long haul facilities at Edinburgh are also somewhat lacking, and investment would be required here, as well as a runway extension, in order to attract new long-haul flights.

Glasgow on the other hand, has more in the way of facilities, so will require less investment over the next few years. However, most recent growth has been out of EDI, with GLA in decline. Obviously BAA feel they can turn this around. They maybe also feel that due to this they can attract a greater price for EDI.

I look forward to seeing who the new owners will be.



That'll teach you
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3226 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3437 times:

Quoting edina (Reply 9):
Strange.....not what the head of the UK Domestic operation was saying just 48 hours ago - yields up (particularly on LHR & LCY), the West Coast rail upgrade has had it's effect & BA are more than happy with how the GLA-LON routes are performing in the current climate
BA is doing well in a market that isn't growing, as I said YoY seats on GLA-LHR will still be down, of course they're happy, they've just gotten a monopoly on the route.

I wonder if they'll repoen the marketing department at GLA? :P

[Edited 2011-10-19 05:58:19]

User currently offlineUAL777UK From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 6 days ago) and read 3310 times:

I like a few others are surprised that its not GLA but at the same time I am quietly pleased, especially if someone like those running LGW come in and run EDI.

Would that private investment look towards:-

A. Extending the runway?
B. Getting the tram line finished and up and running in to the city (lost the plot on what is actually happening there!)
C. Perhaps returning to looking at getting a train line into the airport.
D. None of the above and just enhancing the airport experience.

Either way, I hope that some good will come out of EDI being sold.


User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 6 days ago) and read 3288 times:

I think this is the best for EDI. Since BAA left LGW and got GIP, it has had loads of new airlines and have done up the airport. I hope the best for EDI in the near future.


3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7525 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 6 days ago) and read 3220 times:

What is attitude of the Govt to an extended runway, (would it be London or Edinburgh).

What the contraversy over the Tramline been resolved. I understand that the Scottish parliament was still trying to work it out.

Again, who would need to approve/fund a train link.

IMO, the two big issues are money, (in short supply). and the political will to expand this airport, (also in short supply).


User currently offlinenighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5134 posts, RR: 33
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3155 times:

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 12):
A. Extending the runway?
B. Getting the tram line finished and up and running in to the city (lost the plot on what is actually happening there!)
C. Perhaps returning to looking at getting a train line into the airport.
D. None of the above and just enhancing the airport experience.

A is a possibility, I believe BAA were planning to extend the runway in the coming years. It will depend on whether the new owners feel there is a valid business case for doing so or not. I dont think there are many routes that would work out of EDI that are currently restricted by runway length. Long haul wise, the Middle East is a strong possibility, but this is achievable with an A330.

B & C are not located on airport property, and are therefore not a concern of the airport itself. Sure they can lobby the council/ government to do something about this, but the decision rests with the council/government, as does the funding. BAA were prepared to pay for the station, and were in favour of both B & C, yet C was still scrapped by the government. New owners wont have any impact on this.

What you may see changing is an expanded or reconfigured terminal, providing more widebody gates in the short term.



That'll teach you
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3226 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3056 times:

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 14):
What is attitude of the Govt to an extended runway, (would it be London or Edinburgh).

Why? What's wrong with the current length? On a par with GLA and BHX, able to deal with transatlantic and Middle East on any likely carrier. There's the main railway line at one end and a main road at the other, the exepense and hassle would have VERY little benefit, even in the medium term. The tram link is a comedy joke from the same people that brought you the Scottish Parliament fiasco, OK a little unfair perhaps but there's loads of information on the BBC website if you have a look.

Transport policy on infrastructure of that scale would likely need Westminster funding but the policy is devolved to Holyrood (I think) ! MEP / MSP / MP ahh to Hell with them all!

[Edited 2011-10-19 09:26:31]

User currently offlineBDABOY From Bermuda, joined Nov 2004, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3025 times:

As they're being FORCED to sell, it surely makes sense to sell the more valuable of the two assets given the unpredictability of the present global market. EDI is the 5th busiest airport in the UK despite GLA's larger long haul share of the market. You could argue that EDI is predicted to have a booming next 30 years it would make sense to keep it as the better investment, but while I like to believe that is true, it is still only a prediction and thus risky from an investment perspective.

I hope the new owners will make EDI follow in LGW's footsteps, but I do like the improvements at EDI for sure.

AND PLEASE, let's not start on the trams in Edinburgh. It's a fiasco of nightmarish proportions!!!!!!!


User currently offlineScottishDavie From UK - Scotland, joined Feb 2011, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2931 times:

Quoting BDABOY (Reply 17):
it surely makes sense to sell the more valuable of the two assets given the unpredictability of the present global market

There was a BAA spokesman on Radio Scotland's Newsdrive programme earlier this evening and after stressing several times that BAA didn't want to sell any Scottish airport, he said in terms that they had decided to sell EDI because it was the most attractive to the market.

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 16):
The tram link is a comedy joke from the same people that brought you the Scottish Parliament fiasco,

Meaning what, exactly?


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3226 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2860 times:

Meaning Scottish politicians cannot project manage to budget!

User currently offlineaerecosse From UK - Scotland, joined Mar 2009, 85 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2856 times:

Quoting BDABOY (Reply 17):
let's not start on the trams in Edinburgh. It's a fiasco of nightmarish proportions!!!!!!!



as far as I'm aware the Edinburgh trams project will run from EDI airport through to Princes St & St Andrews Square. Rather than being a Scottish government problem I believe its Edinburgh City Council who turned it into a right royal fiasco.

Quoting nighthawk (Reply 10):
Glasgow on the other hand, has more in the way of facilities, so will require less investment over the next few years. However, most recent growth has been out of EDI, with GLA in decline.



True the most recent growth has been at Edinburgh, in no small part helped by the arrival of FR who have boosted passenger number by around 2 million. I agree that GLA also has more in the way of facilities but as far as being in decline - yes they are well off their peek of over 9million passengers - now around 6.9 million, however there has been consecutive growth reported for the last 10 months.



Flown: BA,BD,BY,AMM,DA,MON,LC,BE,EI,FR,EZY,NW,CO,US,HP,F9,AC,QF,AN,NZ,TN,GZ,MH,EK,EY,PG,IB,JK,FH,BV,LH,SA
User currently offlineScottishDavie From UK - Scotland, joined Feb 2011, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2796 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 19):
Meaning Scottish politicians cannot project manage to budget!

At the risk of going off topic, the Edinburgh trams fiasco started as a vanity project by Edinburgh City Council which nobody living in Edinburgh actually wanted. The SNP minority government tried to cancel it shortly after taking office in 2007 but were defeated by an unholy alliance of other parties whose only common aim was to defeat the SNP for the sake of doing so. The trams scheme was "project managed" by an arms length company called TIE on which Edinburgh City Council was represented. If by "Scottish politicians" you mean Edinburgh City Councillors I entirely agree but don't blame the current Scottish Government for something which had nothing to do with them and which they tried to stop.


User currently offlineLH121GLA From Germany, joined May 2004, 455 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2766 times:

Quoting bennett123 (Thread starter):
Do you think that BA's expansion there was a major factor.

No.


User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2515 times:

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 6):
I am surprised too but I guess GLA has the largest number of long haul routes and Glasgow is the biggest population centre in Scotland and the third largest city in the UK. I think BA sees the biggest growth potential here.

I guess you mean BAA, not BA. Indeed GLA has less pax than EDI but better long-haul potential, and no FR paying cheap fees. FR may have helped boost EDI pax numbers, but how profitably for BAA is another thing.

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 6):

So this leaves BAA with:

LHR
STN
GLA
SOU
ABZ

...for now. They have been forced to sell STN as well, though they are resisting it. Ferrovial must be really regretting having bought BAA, it must surely have become a loss-making operation for them. So an alternative view is that they didn't care about whether to sell GLA or EDI, just wanted to minimize loss in their investment, and if EDI can be sold for more money, then that's the one to leave.


User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2469 times:

Quoting ScottishDavie (Reply 21):
At the risk of going off topic, the Edinburgh trams fiasco started as a vanity project by Edinburgh City Council which nobody living in Edinburgh actually wanted. The SNP minority government tried to cancel it shortly after taking office in 2007 but were defeated by an unholy alliance of other parties whose only common aim was to defeat the SNP for the sake of doing so. The trams scheme was "project managed" by an arms length company called TIE on which Edinburgh City Council was represented. If by "Scottish politicians" you mean Edinburgh City Councillors I entirely agree but don't blame the current Scottish Government for something which had nothing to do with them and which they tried to stop.

Don't forget that the railway connection to Glasgow airport was abandoned because of cost overruns, thanks to yet more horrific project management by the Scottish government. With the parliament, tramlink and this there isn't much hope for a runway extension!



Next Flights: LGW-SVG (738-DY), SVG-LHR (319-BA), LHR-HKG (388-BA), HKG-SYD (333-CX), SYD-HKG (333-CX), HKG-LHR (388-BA)
25 nighthawk : Any runway extension will be paid for by the airport owner, not by the government. Failure of the trams and parliament project will have no bearing o
26 damian : I'm not sure why so many seem to think long haul is the make or break here. Direct long haul is a pretty niche market at all Scottish airports. The b
27 kdhurst380 : Whilst I'm somewhat surprised, its also not really surprising. The recent improvements and general condition of the place gives it a nice value, look
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