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AMR Posts Q3 2011 Results  
User currently offlinejamake1 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1010 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14523 times:

Net loss of $162 mil.

Operating earnings of $39 mil.

Revenue up 9.1% YOY

Strong Q3 revenue growth in Latin America - up 20% YOY

Media/Analyst conference call scheduled for 2pm EDT today

Discuss...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/AMR-Co...rd-prnews-3897060802.html?x=0&.v=1

[Edited 2011-10-19 06:02:25]

[Edited 2011-10-19 06:02:55]


United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
105 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6323 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14513 times:

Net loss is $162 million, not $62 million, as per the article.

Seems to be pretty much par for the course with AMR these days.

Let the always popular bankruptcy chat begin....now!


User currently offlinejamake1 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1010 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14436 times:

Quoting sw733 (Reply 1):
Net loss is $162 million, not $62 million, as per the article.

My bad, corrected. Thank you SW733...



United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
User currently onlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9366 posts, RR: 26
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14440 times:

best job in the world - ceo of American Airlines. lose millions each quarter and keep your job. it's almost like being a weatherman .... except you get non-rev benefits!


if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14281 times:

Quoting stlgph (Reply 3):
best job in the world - ceo of American Airlines. lose millions each quarter and keep your job. it's almost like being a weatherman .... except you get non-rev benefits!

Do you have any ideas what should be done with AA's current industry leading cost and pension structure?



"Up the Irons!"
User currently onlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9366 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14196 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
Do you have any ideas what should be done with AA's current industry leading cost and pension structure?

a big huge honking axe is a great place to start, but that's all i can say here without a conflict of interest.
it's always nice to be first and be negative while your peer group is fairly upbeat.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5235 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 14021 times:

Were the results in line with analyst expectations? The article didn't say.

User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7602 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 14018 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 6):
Were the results in line with analyst expectations?

I believe the expected was a loss of 120 million if I read correctly.

Pathetic.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5085 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13995 times:

When will they ever make a profit? They make tons of revenues but not any profits!


Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3094 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13959 times:

Not surprised. A loss is a loss. Can anyone post previous quarter results for the year (ie. 1st and 2nd quarter of 2011)?

Quoting stlgph (Reply 3):

best job in the world - ceo of American Airlines. lose millions each quarter and keep your job. it's almost like being a weatherman .... except you get non-rev benefits!

In theory, apples and oranges here.
The weatherman can't control the weather and can't make it his own. He can only tell you how the weather will react up to the point of his analysis. Anything that happens afterwards is out of his hands. The CEO at least has the power to restructure the company and make it profitable. So if Arpey has not even considered Ch 11 to make the company profitable, it's his fault. All of the other legacies have done it and look how they are now.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlinemicstatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 780 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13914 times:

"While the third quarter was challenging for American Airlines, we are taking aggressive actions to improve the Company's performance and strengthen its foundation for long-term success," said AMR Chairman and CEO Gerard Arpey

I find it strange that Arpey would make such a statement. To me, American is doing anything but taking aggressive actions to improve.



S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
User currently offlineKngkyle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 404 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13868 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Sure glad I shorted AMR a month ago.

User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3435 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13849 times:

Quoting micstatic (Reply 10):
"While the third quarter was challenging for American Airlines, we are taking aggressive actions to improve the Company's performance and strengthen its foundation for long-term success," said AMR Chairman and CEO Gerard Arpey

I find it strange that Arpey would make such a statement. To me, American is doing anything but taking aggressive actions to improve.

"Aggressive" is a relative term.  
Perhaps narrowbody fleet renewal, closing in on an agreement with the pilot union, ordering half-a-dozen 77Ws and finally opening up flights into non-BA/IB European hubs like HEL and BUD is "aggressive". This is AA we're talking about.

I am a loyal AAdvantage member, a small shareholder (who has made money before on the share and is currently in a loss position), and no one wants AA to succeed more than me. I defend them when people criticize and half flown them almost (or alliance partners) almost exclusively over the past 7 years.

I do agree however, that they need to take aggressive and drastic action to remedy their current financial position, and I don't think that anything they have done up to now can be termed "aggressive". They are but mere steps in the right direction.

AA1818

[Edited 2011-10-19 07:11:03]


“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently onlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9366 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13842 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 9):
So if Arpey has not even considered Ch 11 to make the company profitable, it's his fault. All of the other legacies have done it and look how they are now

what I believe-

if Neal Cohen joins the company or the board - they are likely to file.

Arpey is replaced - they are likely to file.

if neither occurs, they likely will not file - at least for now.


then again, get back to me tomorrow.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13111 posts, RR: 100
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13809 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting jamake1 (Thread starter):
Net loss of $162 mil.
Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 7):
I believe the expected was a loss of 120 million if I read correctly.

This was the quarter to make a profit.

Quoting micstatic (Reply 10):
I find it strange that Arpey would make such a statement. To me, American is doing anything but taking aggressive actions to improve.

I have to agree. The attitude is more like Pan Am's where the losses must just be book keeping or tax evasion or...
That worked for a while. Then it didn't.

Quoting jamake1 (Thread starter):
Operating earnings of $39 mil.

I would love to see a detailed analysis of AA's earnings. How much of the loss would have been put into operations by a LCC?    It doesn't matter, operations should have had an 8% to 10% profit margin for 3Q2011. A break even business (which $39 million is for an airline the size of AA), is a weak business.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineflyhossd From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 887 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13800 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 4):
Do you have any ideas what should be done with AA's current industry leading cost and pension structure?

Start at the top. IMHO, AMR is top heavy.

There's going to be more pilot retirements and short of bankruptcy, I can't see the AA pilots giving up a dime of the retirement money. But AMR now has the opportunity to replace those retiring pilots with new-hires with different pensions or retirement funds.

Thus the sudden urgency in the pilot contract negotiations. AA is on the verge of cancelling what would be profitable flights for the lack of qualified pilots. APA warned AMR that this would happen; that AMR did nothing to prepare takes me back to step one - start at the top, AMR is top heavy.



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5235 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13802 times:

Quoting stlgph (Reply 13):
what I believe-

if Neal Cohen joins the company or the board - they are likely to file.

Alright, I'll ask. Who is Neal Cohen?


User currently offlineUnited787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2707 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13735 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 9):
In theory, apples and oranges here.

Herman Cain is on A-Net???  
Quoting micstatic (Reply 10):
I find it strange that Arpey would make such a statement. To me, American is doing anything but taking aggressive actions to improve.

To defend AA, I think they have been making a lot of major changes over the past 1-2 years...the problem is, they are too late in growing some balls and leadership...by the time AA realizes the benefits of these changes, they will have been through Chapter 11...some of the changes I think are significant:

1. Strengthen OneWorld...It was the non-alliance alliance with what seemed to be these least amount of cooperation between it's members...that has changed...we have seen a plethora of new cooperation like CX finally starting HKG-ORD...QF changing from SFO to DFW... AA stepping up and being aggressive to save JAL... AA starting ORD-HEL

2. Order new widebodies...I think the 77W order (the first in the US) will allow them to make some much needed expansion moves and also allow them to optimize some existing routes! Lets hope they improve their First and Business cabins with the new planes...

3. Next Generation of narrowbodies...The MD-80s burn to much fuel and they needed to order a lot of new planes...and they did with the largest aircraft order in history!

4. Cornerstone Strategy...I think this is a good strategy on paper...the problem is they are in third place in NYC, second place at ORD and in second or third place in LAX. I think the B6 partnership is a smart one for NYC but they don't have the aircraft and cost structure to compete effectively in these markets...and they are on a slippery slope...


User currently onlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9366 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13688 times:

no problem -

Neal S. Cohen has been Independent Director of Republic Airways Holdings Inc. since October 2009. He is president and chief operating officer of Laureate Education, Inc. Previously, Mr. Cohen was executive vice president for international strategy and chief executive officer for regional airlines at Northwest Airlines. In addition, Mr. Cohen had served as executive vice president and chief financial officer at Northwest Airlines. Prior to his tenure with Northwest Airlines, Mr. Cohen was executive vice president and chief financial officer for US Airways. Mr. Cohen has served as chief financial officer for various service and financial organizations as well as Sylvan Learning Systems, Inc., the predecessor company of Laureate Education, Inc.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13493 times:

Quoting stlgph (Reply 18):

I'm not trying to side-line, believe me. I'm only asking because I honestly don't know and frankly don't keep up with AA affairs but what gave you the idea that he may be joining AMR's team?



What gets measured gets done.
User currently onlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4276 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13361 times:

The report says they made an operating profit of $39 million? Were the losses due to special charges on the balance sheet?

In any event they need to stem the red ink in a hurry, or else everyone associated with AMR is going to suffer.

Quoting flyhossd (Reply 15):

Thus the sudden urgency in the pilot contract negotiations. AA is on the verge of cancelling what would be profitable flights for the lack of qualified pilots. APA warned AMR that this would happen; that AMR did nothing to prepare takes me back to step one - start at the top, AMR is top heavy.

This is exactly what happened with UA in the 90's when they staffed based on the assumption that pilots would pick up overtime, rather than hire new pilots. When they didn't and were forced to cancel a ton of flights, they gave the pilots a hefty raise, which unfortunately led them into bankruptcy in the early 2000's.

This environment is different than back then though, but the pilot deal has to get done either way.


User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13352 times:

all sound good on paper, but the question becomes - which event is likely to occur first : AA finally turning a profit, or AA running out of cash ?

also the cornerstone strategy is not without flaws - insufficient feed for JFK/TATL due to LGA dual hub... lack of proper AsiaPac hub ... DFW/JFK flights to Latin America cannibalizing MIA instead of the competition.... ignoring Africa when MIA is perfect geographically

Quoting United787 (Reply 17):
To defend AA, I think they have been making a lot of major changes over the past 1-2 years...the problem is, they are too late in growing some balls and leadership...by the time AA realizes the benefits of these changes, they will have been through Chapter 11...some of the changes I think are significant:

1. Strengthen OneWorld...It was the non-alliance alliance with what seemed to be these least amount of cooperation between it's members...that has changed...we have seen a plethora of new cooperation like CX finally starting HKG-ORD...QF changing from SFO to DFW... AA stepping up and being aggressive to save JAL... AA starting ORD-HEL

2. Order new widebodies...I think the 77W order (the first in the US) will allow them to make some much needed expansion moves and also allow them to optimize some existing routes! Lets hope they improve their First and Business cabins with the new planes...

3. Next Generation of narrowbodies...The MD-80s burn to much fuel and they needed to order a lot of new planes...and they did with the largest aircraft order in history!

4. Cornerstone Strategy...I think this is a good strategy on paper...the problem is they are in third place in NYC, second place at ORD and in second or third place in LAX. I think the B6 partnership is a smart one for NYC but they don't have the aircraft and cost structure to compete effectively in these markets...and they are on a slippery slope...


User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7602 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13213 times:

Quoting mogandoCI (Reply 21):
DFW/JFK flights to Latin America cannibalizing MIA instead of the competition

Thats not a problem. The Latin America flights from JFK are heavily tilited to O&D since the connecting opprotunities there are limited, MIA has a good mix of O&D and connections but the MIA-Latin America market is HUGE. DFW handles mostly connections with a good number of O&D too (especially to Mexico and Cental America).

They dont compete with each other, rather they mostly serve different markets.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7180 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13196 times:

Quoting stlgph (Reply 5):
a big huge honking axe is a great place to start, but that's all i can say here without a conflict of interest.

I've said this before, but I blame the Ch11 system for this. It is a tragedy. U.S. taxpayers are going to get stuck with another pension and wage rates in this industry are going to continue their downward spiral if they file for Ch11. Is this what we want to happen? No. If AA comes out of Ch11 with lower costs than DL and UA it is just going to set up another cycle of labor cuts and continue the death spiral of U.S. aviation.

So, frankly AA should simply liquidate. If the bankruptcy system worked, NW or UA would have liquidated in the last round and those left standing would be stronger and paying better wages, but that never happened and now it is AA's turn to dodge the hangman's noose by starting another cycle of destruction in this industry.

Quoting JAL (Reply 8):
When will they ever make a profit?

If they did not make money in 3Q, they have little hope of ever making a profit. Additionally, the cash they raised with 8.75% bonds virtually assure they will not make money any time soon since the interest burden on that wad of cash is so massive it will wipe away any chance of a profit.

Quoting stlgph (Reply 13):
what I believe-

if Neal Cohen joins the company or the board - they are likely to file.

Arpey is replaced - they are likely to file.

if neither occurs, they likely will not file - at least for now.

then again, get back to me tomorrow.

They have to file. I think. Even if they get labor savings they don't really have a choice.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
This was the quarter to make a profit.

Exactly. That's not a small loss, either.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 14):
I have to agree. The attitude is more like Pan Am's where the losses must just be book keeping or tax evasion or...
That worked for a while. Then it didn't.

ROTFL, well these are real losses. Pan Am must have done a fantastic job of faking their poor performance.   I guess it was all just a sly plan to get a TV show. LOL


User currently onlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7602 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13114 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
So, frankly AA should simply liquidate.



And be punished for being the one airline that didnt go through? No.

If Chapter 11 didnt exist, NW, CO, UA, DL, and US might not exist. At least two of them would be gone and AA would be standing on the top of the airline pyramid.

Should it come to that, AA will go through and then all should be well for them. Will it force another to go through? Probably, but that isnt AA's concern.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
25 AADC10 : That is not correct. What sent UA into Ch. 11 was the end of the dot.com boom. Huge numbers of premium passengers flew out of technology centers, SFO
26 Post contains links LAXintl : Pretty concerning the carriers cash needs are almost a $1bil per quarter with $726 million back filled through yet additional debt offerings. Analyst
27 stlgph : no worries ... the name has been mentioned a couple of times in the circles of analysts and shareholders.
28 TSS : Probably off-topic but possibly indicative of how quickly and decisively AA is dealing with their problems in general, how many pilots are expected t
29 norcal : The problem is they have essentially created a training bubble. For every 777 Captain that retires it creates about 5-6 training events as other pilo
30 727LOVER : When was AMR Corp's last profitable quarter?
31 flyhossd : Good post. Has AMR management apparently just realized that they've been fiddling while Rome burns? APA warned them, AMR didn't react at all. Mandato
32 fpetrutiu : Wonder if AMR will be still around to take deliver of those new birds they have on order... LOL
33 Post contains images par13del : The system worked fine, new investors were found, what you are talking about is the government mandating that business close down even if qualified i
34 LAXintl : The PBGC is not funded by general tax revenues. Instead its monies come primarily from insurance fund that other defined benefit plans pay, the asset
35 stlgph : pretty sure it was third quarter, last year.
36 DLPMMM : You seem to have a strange view of how a (relatively) free market economy works. The CEO is there to make a profit for the SHAREHOLDERS. The filing o
37 N62NA : I went to book AA 1520 (the 777 that flies LAX-MIA each day) for end of November / beginning of December and I wanted to use miles to get into F. I w
38 staralliance85 : The best for AA to do is to file for Chapter 11. UA, DL and US were in bankruptcy and they came out fine. 1. The Board should toss Gerard Arpey and ha
39 ripcordd : Can anyone break out the number of AA pilots and total cost of them to the company, AA FA'S same thing, Mechanics, and Ground, and Then of course mana
40 mogandoCI : add one more : throw away half of the First class seats on the 777. When you have more First class seats on the 777 than SQ/EK on their A388, somethin
41 FlyASAGuy2005 : No!! LOL. You mean you called and this is what the agent said or some sort of blub popped up on the website? This is pathetic..
42 Sulley : Not feeling it, I was offered a job by AMR today but have serious reservations...
43 LAXdude1023 : We just hired someone from AA a couple of months ago. I think he would like to go back at some point, but I dont think he will until things stablize
44 DeltaMD90 : Can't speak for AA, but DL is doing something similar--focusing a lot more on the business traveler. I heard that the top 5% of DL fliers provide 20%
45 FlyASAGuy2005 : That is true on the domestic front. Adding 6 F seats to all domestic 767s, adding 2 F seats to all MD-88s. Adding 2/4 F seats to the 757s (depending
46 usairways787 : Looks like me taking a job with another airline was the best decision I made this year. I wish all AA employees the best. US787
47 staralliance85 : add one more : throw away half of the First class seats on the 777. When you have more First class seats on the 777 than SQ/EK on their A388, somethi
48 Post contains links flyby519 : Check this site: http://web.mit.edu/airlinedata/www/default.html The data might be a few years old, but still very relevant Also airlinefinancials.co
49 mah4546 : It will be operating, but with a 763 more often than not between Nov 1 and Dec 14.
50 Post contains images seabosdca : We think about employees on this forum, but the corporation is there for its owners -- the shareholders. Chapter 11 wipes them out. It's a last resor
51 DeltaMD90 : Then why don't we see more Chapter 7s were the shareholders just liquidate the company for cash instead of losing it all in Chapter 11? Sorry for my
52 Independence76 : In terms of priority from my view.... 1. Sort out the Union problem and increase direct employee respect. It's an undeniable bloodsucker. 2. Reevaluat
53 AeroWesty : The field trip explanation: Because stockholders own equity, while bondholders own credit. In BK, creditors get paid off first considering the senior
54 LAXtoATL : Because in chapter 7 the funds raised from liquidation goes to secured creditors not the shareholders. Whether it ends up n chapter 7 or chapter 11 i
55 seabosdca : Since bankruptcy pretty much by definition implies that liabilities are greater than assets, the shareholders generally don't get anything in Chapter
56 Post contains images AeroWesty : All too often forgotten in some criticisms of the bankruptcy process, but an extremely important point, especially when dealing with a company whose
57 N62NA : Yeah, I had booked the flight at the end of October using miles, but needed to reschedule it to end of November / beginning of December, so I called
58 N62NA : Well, technically it may not be operating, as I specifically mentioned the 777 which provides 3 classes of service.[Edited 2011-10-19 18:02:22]
59 LipeGIG : Very good point. 8F would be more than enough. They could just increase 1 row on business and 2 extra rows of economy at least. This could mean chang
60 LAXintl : Notes from today’s earning call. A bit of an interesting call. In unorthodox fashion Arpey gave a longish statement at the beginning of the call abo
61 SCL767 : Chile is also a good example where there is strong demand and AA will operate 20 weekly flights into SCL starting next month for the high season. IMO
62 LipeGIG : AA have few 777 compared to what they could do with them. They will upgauge JFK-GIG and i hope they keep it... and it seems the bookings will surpris
63 SCL767 : AA planned on deploying the B772 on the route a couple of years ago, but decided not to do so. If AA offered a smaller F class on certain B772s, it wo
64 tyler81190 : maybe what AA needs is Rupert Murdoch?? hahahahahaha or maybe they need to send Arpey to AA (the group)
65 Schweigend : I recall AA spinning off the MX division some years ago. That former part of the company -- is it called AAR now? -- is doing well, IIRC. I wish AA co
66 staralliance85 : Another AA should strengthen their relationship with AMEX premium customers. Drawing in more loyal customers is what AA needs right now. Currently, AA
67 TOMMY767 : ugh, god -- Arpey is so useless.
68 lightsaber : Thanks for the summary. AA must negotiate more flexible contracts to drive down non-fuel CASM. Understatement... I suspect, at today's fuel prices, f
69 delta2ual : If we truly had a "free market economy" we wouldn't have bailed out auto manufacturers, banks, etc. I'm not sure what our unemployment rate would loo
70 Post contains images Jacobin777 : While I don't think Arpey et al. have done the best job at AA (they have missed a number of opportunities on a number of routes), their hands are som
71 DLPMMM : The Libertarians are definately on to something. I don't think the bail-outs really did much to stem the unemployment rate. This is really an issue f
72 AA1818 : So for AMR shareholders, they are not likely to be wiped out..just diluted? What happened with UAL and DAL shareholders...i understand the stock may
73 Jacobin777 : They will be wiped out. The creditors, as part of their agreement will get stock in the new company when it re-lists on the stock exchange. They got
74 IrishAyes : Maybe I am thinking long term here, but if AA is going to put all of their eggs into these baskets, shouldn't they be thinking more on the offense on
75 TOMMY767 : when they are done integrating, I wouldn't be surprised if UA is bigger than AA at LAX once again.
76 Post contains links AAExecPlat : Although what you say is accurate, it is incomplete. While you are correct that the PBGC is funded by contributions (effectively insurance premiums)
77 LAXintl : United already is, and has been larger then AA at LAX. With the merger and LAX being CO's largest non-hubs station the difference will be even more n
78 tommytoyz : Um no. The self inflicted fatal wound was selling off their fuel hedges at a time when oil was at a low. The price they got for selling the hedges wa
79 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I'm curious what the numbers are..
80 United1 : 73 UA Mainline 28 CO Mainline 109 UA Express Total = 210 flights a day 89 AA Mainline 61 AA Eagle Total = 150 flights a day I might have missed a few
81 DeltaMD90 : Hate to be annoying, but how does that compare to WN and DL? I mean roughly, I don't expect you to dredge through the time tables. Isn't WN a close 3
82 mah4546 : The difference is barely noticeable as is, with UA having only ~30 more daily flights. CO adds ~30 or so. And with Skywest Embraer retirements and th
83 LAXintl : See below. Barely noticeable ?? United also greatly outboards AA at LAX. Here are the numbers through August 2011: United - 7,350,674 Continental - 1
84 mah4546 : Absolutely. In terms of what I was referring to - daily flights, not passengers - it's a number that can very, very quickly change - UA parks the Emb
85 LAXintl : Even if UA operated ZERO UAX flights at LAX, it still outboards AA by 800,000 passengers. So unless you expect to see a 40% capacity swing by either c
86 United1 : No worries I'm not dredging through the timetables I'm using FlightStats. WN/FL WN 113 FL 7 Total: 120 flights a day DL 63 Mainline 42 Connection Tot
87 DeltaMD90 : I agree, sometimes large numbers are anything are negligible when simple decisions can cause even larger effects. AA may be struggling now, but they
88 Post contains images SESGDL : That's not true at all. That difference is larger than the difference between passengers boarded between DL and AA at LAX, but, of course, you'd neve
89 mah4546 : Why do you act like that's some huge obstacle? It's not. If AA were to hypothetically add a daily LAXPEK, a ninth daily MIALAX on a 738 and a second
90 Post contains images LAXintl : Ah, thanks, I knew there was a reason. I do spend way too much time onboard AA and Dallas in recent months, however thankfully I've not been blinded
91 mah4546 : 12 daily 738 flights at 80% average LF just about kills that gap. It all depends how they grow/shrink at LAX over the next 18 months. AA is showing s
92 caliboy78 : I do have to go with the rumor mill that AA is thinking and in the works to add more flights when TBIT finally opens where AA will have 4 preferential
93 Post contains images lightsaber : Since the 752 has a higher CASM than the 738, unless those last seats are sold at very high RASM... I believe the 738s do make more profit per flight
94 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Thanks. Thanks.. If AA gets their house in order then there is a chance they can expand quite significantly. Interesting they are going after LAX. AA
95 Post contains images seabosdca : Yes, it does. It converted 18 of its newer birds to a TATL configuration, but has never used all 18 on TATL routes. I'm sure, as with every other US
96 LAXdude1023 : Because AA isnt losing money fast enough? DFW and MIA are their only bright spots right now. Shrinking them in favor of LAX would be dumb. PEK, GEG,
97 Post contains images Jacobin777 : I don't think AA will really shrink MIA/DFW, maybe not grow it as fast as LAX. We'll see. On a side note, too bad both MIA and DFW suck in football.
98 stlgph : Bloomberg's been reporting American Airlines will use all of Eagle's jet fleet for five years after it's spun off -- allowing Eagle more time to get c
99 apodino : I don't mean to play devils advocate, but who exactly could eagle get contracts from? DL seems to be pretty steady in their contracts at the moment,
100 Post contains links Jacobin777 : Speaking of Bloomberg, here is something of interest: "American Airlines parent AMR Corp. (AMR) fell as much as 10 percent in intraday trading after
101 MoltenRock : As I mentioned in the Alaska profitability thread, when does DL's flight crew's wages "snap back" to pre-bankruptcy wages? I know when Delta bought NW
102 DeltaMD90 : Actually, call me crazy but I could see this as DL's opportunity to really expand in LAX without actually expanding themselves. Eagle flying for DL a
103 Post contains links flyby519 : http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/a...lpa-spells-out-details-of-ame.html
104 NYCAdvantage : You are right, also the way that I understand it, Wall Street is applying pressure to AMR board to get rid of Arpey and his gang, I guess AF took not
105 Squid : No, they need Doug Steenland.
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