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EK To AMS With A380 . . .?  
User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2371 posts, RR: 11
Posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12014 times:

A local newspaper [usually pretty reliable when it comes to Schiphoil Airport] is reporting that Emirates is considering using A380 equipment on their daily AMS run. At the moment I believe they are doing 6x weekly 77W and 1x weekly 77L. Apparently an official request has been made to the Amsterdam Airport Authorities by Emirates to deploy the A380 next year. However Emirates is also considering going double daily. Decision has not yet been made, it appears they are exporing their options.

Also the article mentiones that EK expects additional benefit on the AMS [and all european flights] from the ETS; for connecting flights b[i.e. AMS-DXB-KUL, the pax will only be CO2 charged for the AMS-DXB part of the ticket, while the DFXB-KUL will not be charged. KLM on the other hand, would be charged for the full length of the flight.

Click . . . . . . sorry, only in Dutch

Rgds,
PW100


Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4498 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11935 times:

I would strongly expect that EK will first add a second flight in the afternoon departure hub with an evening turn around in AMS before upgauging the existing flight to A380, but it is of course possible that both happen within a short time frame. MAN received the A380 and shortly later a third daily frequency. Then there may also be the consideration of being the first A380 operator at AMS, i.e. before MH could potentially deploy its A380 there.

User currently offlinelijnden From Netherlands, joined Apr 2003, 562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11799 times:
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With the CO2 deal coming, airlines like EK will create strategies to keep costs as low as possible for passengers. I am expecting that DXB will become important hub for travel between the Far East / Australia and the EU.

We see already that Garuda is flying CGK-DXB-AMS.

Other A380 traffic I might expect in AMS is SQ with a stop-over in ZRH (non-eu) and have Malaysian do something similair.



Be kind to animals!
User currently offlinekl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5120 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11799 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 1):
Then there may also be the consideration of being the first A380 operator at AMS, i.e. before MH could potentially deploy its A380 there.

And CZ eventually I guess. Linking two large Skyteam hubs.


I think it will be an EK A380 before double daily since EK was only allowed 14 flights a week IIRC of which 7 are cargo at the moment and very lucrative.



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12903 posts, RR: 100
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11660 times:
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Quoting PW100 (Thread starter):
A local newspaper [usually pretty reliable when it comes to Schiphoil Airport] is reporting that Emirates is considering using A380 equipment on their daily AMS run.

And that makes AMS unique in what way?     

Quoting PW100 (Thread starter):
However Emirates is also considering going double daily.

Do they have the bilateral rights. Note, I'm asking as I'm just under the impression EK was maxing out their flight rights with 1X cargo and 1X pax (daily). Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 1):
Then there may also be the consideration of being the first A380 operator at AMS, i.e. before MH could potentially deploy its A380 there.

EK did bring forward their MUC A380 flight to be 1st there...    I personally have seen the A380 sell seats. Non-aviation fans are excited about the A380. Just as some people must buy the hottest cellphone, they also must fly the plane they can brag about.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2371 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11608 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 1):
Then there may also be the consideration of being the first A380 operator at AMS, i.e. before MH could potentially deploy its A380 there

They do seem to find that important to their business . . . cough MUC cough . . .  
The same article also suggest that Malaysian may bring the A380 to AMS next year, so maybe EK indeed wants to be first A380 operator at AMS also.

Quoting kl911 (Reply 3):
think it will be an EK A380 before double daily since EK was only allowed 14 flights a week

Do you have link to that? Not that I'm disputing, just curious to see the wording.
Thanks.


Rgds,
PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11581 times:

Quoting lijnden (Reply 2):
Other A380 traffic I might expect in AMS is SQ with a stop-over in ZRH (non-eu) and have Malaysian do something similair.

No, AMS is a leisure destination for SQ, a 777-300ER is much more likely in case they would like to increase capacity.
This as well as the A380 is a premium aircraft and I do not expect AMS to be tag-on from ZRH.


User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2371 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11553 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 4):
And that makes AMS unique in what way

It would be the closest airport to my bed, receiving regular A380. Pretty unique I would say         

Seriously, having a look at their A380 delivery positions for 2012-2014, a lot, and I mean a lot of airports will start seeing EK 380's. AMS seems to fit perfectly in their A380 business model.

I suspect that delivery positions from 2014 will focuss more on [ultra] long haul, while 2012 and early 2013 A380 frames will see more "regional" EK operations. I expect several more european EK A380 announcements before the end of next year.

Rgds,
PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently onlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11539 times:

Quoting lijnden (Reply 2):
Other A380 traffic I might expect in AMS is SQ with a stop-over in ZRH (non-eu) and have Malaysian do something similair.

It will never happen. There is no financial benefit to operating a one-stop instead of a non-stop. Garuda doesn't have an aircraft capable of flying CGK-AMS non-stop, and even if they did, their price sensitive customer base wouldn't mind the stop. Garuda is no where on the same level as SQ and MH. To suggets that SQ and MH would drop the non-stop route because of this tiny tax is ridiculous. The cost of a stop far outweighs the tax.


User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1565 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11379 times:

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 6):
No, AMS is a leisure destination for SQ, a 777-300ER is much more likely in case they would like to increase capacity.

Actually, SQ's 3 class 77W has less seats than their 2 class 77E's. And with the huge premium cabin of the 77W, I can't see SQ sending the 77W to AMS (the A380 neither, for the same reason)

Quoting PW100 (Reply 7):
EK 380's. AMS seems to fit perfectly in their A380 business model.

I'm not so sure... EK's cargo position at AMS is very strong, and their 777's are a lot better suited for belly cargo than A380´s.

I wouldn´t take it too seriously yet. EK is probably weighing their options, considering what/if scenarios, but I expect AMS to remain a 777 destination for the time being. How good are their load factors at AMS?

And about being the first A380 operator into AMS, before MH, it would appear LHR and SYD will be the first destinations for MH's A380. So, MH will need to have at least 4 A380's delivered before AMS will see it, and it has strong competition from MEL as well.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 8):
Garuda doesn't have an aircraft capable of flying CGK-AMS non-stop

They ordered the 77W with AMS non-stop in mind, but it appears they have some trouble filling their A332 up till now... Little wonder with EK and KL as main competitors.



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2371 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 11216 times:

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 9):
EK's cargo position at AMS is very strong, and their 777's are a lot better suited for belly cargo than A380´s

True. However having daily cargo flights would somewhat alleviate the need for belly cargo (bring on the 748F . . . ).

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 9):
I wouldn´t take it too seriously yet. EK is probably weighing their options, considering what/if scenarios, but I expect AMS to remain a 777 destination for the time being. How good are their load factors at AMS

I agree that they are weighing their options. Considering they are (apparently) contemplating double daily and/or A380, I suspect their load factors to be pretty solid.

Rgds,
PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineAmsterdam From Netherlands, joined Mar 2011, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10909 times:

They shouldn't be allowed more flights to AMS than KLM has to dubai.
Even better is to make the deal about seat capacity, like some other states have with each other.


User currently onlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9725 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10863 times:

Quoting PW100 (Reply 10):
Quoting frigatebird (Reply 9):
I wouldn´t take it too seriously yet. EK is probably weighing their options, considering what/if scenarios, but I expect AMS to remain a 777 destination for the time being. How good are their load factors at AMS

I agree that they are weighing their options. Considering they are (apparently) contemplating double daily and/or A380, I suspect their load factors to be pretty solid.

Rgds,
PW100

Based on this thread they are weighing their options which is wise of course. At the same time we all know how many A380's EK still needs to be receive. With their mega A380 order I think EK can (and probably will) send the A380 to a lot more destinations than they are doing now. In any case, in my opinion AMS does sound like a potential A380 destination for EK. Who knows, time will tell...

A388


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12903 posts, RR: 100
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10668 times:
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Quoting PW100 (Reply 7):
Seriously, having a look at their A380 delivery positions for 2012-2014, a lot, and I mean a lot of airports will start seeing EK 380's. AMS seems to fit perfectly in their A380 business model.

   AMS does make sense. I was just having fun.  
Quoting PW100 (Reply 7):
suspect that delivery positions from 2014 will focuss more on [ultra] long haul, while 2012 and early 2013 A380 frames will see more "regional" EK operations. I expect several more european EK A380 announcements before the end of next year.

I agree with you opinion. In 2014, lighter A380s should be delivered that have an easier time with ULH. Is EK doing anything to lighten cabin fittings? IMHO, that is keeping the A380 closer to home.

And European destinations are now regional EK flights?   

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinesf260 From Belgium, joined Oct 2007, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10627 times:

Quoting Amsterdam (Reply 11):
They shouldn't be allowed more flights to AMS than KLM has to dubai.

Why do you think that?

If I say the same about BRU: "QR/EY shouldn't be allowed more flight to BRU than Brussels Airlines has to Doha/Abu Dhabi", it becomes instantly clear why your statement is absurd...

I don't get the whole point of [EU countries] blocking EK to expand, the EU is so much about liberalization and free trade of goods and services, but why are they so protectionist about their airlines?

What is wrong with a battle between EK and KL if that means lower fares for (all) customers? If you look at the succes of FR/U2, it is clear what the customer wants, lower fares...

edit:typo

[Edited 2011-10-21 10:51:32]

User currently offlinekl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5120 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 9878 times:

Quoting sf260 (Reply 14):
I don't get the whole point of [EU countries] blocking EK to expand, the EU is so much about liberalization and free trade of goods and services, but why are they so protectionist about their airlines?

What is wrong with a battle between EK and KL if that means lower fares for (all) customers? If you look at the succes of FR/U2, it is clear what the customer wants, lower fares...

So true, Let EK go 4x daily to AMS if they want. KLM then has the choice to do the same. And indeed it will lower fares for us.  



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently onlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8218 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9279 times:

Quoting sf260 (Reply 14):
I don't get the whole point of [EU countries] blocking EK to expand, the EU is so much about liberalization and free trade of goods and services, but why are they so protectionist about their airlines?

That's a very short sighted view. Free trade is proving to not be all that's hyped to be. Just ask the United States middle class  
Free trade is great as long as there's a level playing field for all parties involved, but that's hardly the case when you're dealing with a lot of emerging economies. What do you think will happen to the fares when EK drives every competing airline out of business?


User currently offlineDC10freaky From Netherlands, joined Oct 2011, 1 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9041 times:

I heard this great news too and it would be great. Not only in the newspaper mentioned earlier, but also in simple talking in and around the airport.
Next one will be Malaysia Airlines and they are planning using them from oktober on. I also do expect to see the SQ A380. Why...competation. I do not thinkt that SQ will continue to use the 772 or 77W when its biggist rival, MH, use the A380. And who knows what AF/Kl will do then.....


User currently offlineAmsterdam From Netherlands, joined Mar 2011, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8995 times:

Quoting sf260 (Reply 14):
Quoting Amsterdam (Reply 11):
They shouldn't be allowed more flights to AMS than KLM has to dubai.

Why do you think that?

If I say the same about BRU: "QR/EY shouldn't be allowed more flight to BRU than Brussels Airlines has to Doha/Abu Dhabi", it becomes instantly clear why your statement is absurd...

I don't get the whole point of [EU countries] blocking EK to expand, the EU is so much about liberalization and free trade of goods and services, but why are they so protectionist about their airlines?

What is wrong with a battle between EK and KL if that means lower fares for (all) customers? If you look at the succes of FR/U2, it is clear what the customer wants, lower fares...

It's not possible to compete with the Persian Gulf carriers.
Emirates is a state company with limitless cash.
Plus the same company owns their hub airport.
The fleet they've got on order is worth more than AF-KL, the Lufthansa group, BA-IB, and maybe all other European carries together as companies.
The catalog worth of their order is around 37 billion euro.
That's 51 billion dollar.
All North American carriers are also worth much less than their order.
No normal company can 'buy' anything that's worth so much.
Maybe Shell, Exxon Mobile, and a couple other oil companies have got that kind of potential.
But even Microsoft and McDonalds probably can't make an order that big.

Plus the European courts make the EU airlines pay out high fines for delays, even if it's not their fault like with the vulcano.
And last week a European court even ruled that EU airlines have to pay for mental suffering in case of cancellations. O_O

With the CO2 laws European airlines are going to pay much more for using European airspace, because all their flights begin and end in Europe. Unlike other airlines that have just a portion of their flights going to Europe.

The list goes on.


User currently offlinekl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5120 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 8888 times:

Quoting Amsterdam (Reply 18):
It's not possible to compete with the Persian Gulf carriers.
Emirates is a state company with limitless cash.
Plus the same company owns their hub airport.

Maybe they cant compete on quality you mean, but the government is not doing anything for EK.

quote:

In 2010 Emirates paid dividends worth AED956 million (US$260 million) in 2010, compared to AED2.9 billion (US$793 million) in 2009. The government has received Dhs7.1 billion from Emirates since dividends started being paid in 1999 for having provided an initial start-up capital of US$10 million and an additional investment of about US$80 million at the time of the airline's inception, the Dubai government is the sole owner of the company. However, it does not put any new money into it, nor does it interfere with running the airline.

end quote. ( see wikipedia )



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineAmsterdam From Netherlands, joined Mar 2011, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8165 times:

[quote=kl911,reply=19]Quoting Amsterdam (Reply 18):
It's not possible to compete with the Persian Gulf carriers.
Emirates is a state company with limitless cash.
Plus the same company owns their hub airport.

Maybe they cant compete on quality you mean, but the government is not doing anything for EK.

quote:

In 2010 Emirates paid dividends worth AED956 million (US$260 million) in 2010, compared to AED2.9 billion (US$793 million) in 2009. The government has received Dhs7.1 billion from Emirates since dividends started being paid in 1999 for having provided an initial start-up capital of US$10 million and an additional investment of about US$80 million at the time of the airline's inception, the Dubai government is the sole owner of the company. However, it does not put any new money into it, nor does it interfere with running the airline.

end quote. ( see wikipedia )
[/quote

So you say the airline Emirates can make a 50 billion dollar fleet order without support of their goverment?
No way.
Almost no companies in general can afford anything like that.
Certainly no airlines.
Like i said, their orders alone are worth more than all legacy airlines in europe together as complete airlines.
It's completely out of this world


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12903 posts, RR: 100
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8138 times:
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Quoting kl911 (Reply 19):
Maybe they cant compete on quality you mean, but the government is not doing anything for EK.

The Dubai government couldn't... they're squeeking by.

Last I looked, the #1 source of cash for EK, after profits, was borrowing from French banks.  
To buy A380s.

Quoting Amsterdam (Reply 18):
No normal company can 'buy' anything that's worth so much.

EK is buying based on their profits. If they were not making money, no one would loan them for the new planes.

Quoting Amsterdam (Reply 18):
But even Microsoft and McDonalds probably can't make an order that big.

I bet McDonald's long term food purchase contracts sum up to a similar number. You're talking as if EK will keep all the planes at once.   

EK purchases in bulk, so you shouldn't be quoting list prices. They're paying substantially less. I don't know how much, but 30% or more less than list price.

UAE law has aircraft depreciation over 14 years instead of 20. Thus, EK is able to sell 'slightly used' aircraft at a profit! e.g., a pair of A332s. I'm certain that the 77Ws will leave the fleet at a profit when EK chooses to do so.


The main reason the European carriers have trouble competing is their own governments 'handicap them.' e.g., cerfews, fights to expand airports (NIMBY$), etc. Back in the 1950s, governments were often 'pro-business.'


It is very easy to compete with the gulf carriers; BYPASS THEM! Send a horde of A330s/787s around the mid-east hubs. Expand the European hubs to offer connectivity from secondary European cities to secondary Asian and African nations.

Why a 3rd runway at LHR would make that possible, combined with 24/7 operations Err...

Ok, the new runway and soon to be finished new terminal will really help FRA. In particular with its 24/7 operations. Err...

Then just expand AMS and... oh. What's that limit on night flights?

Well then France just needs to open up the bilaterals to CDG and increase the flights. Oh... France isn't doing that...


It isn't EK's/ EY's, or QR's fault their competition is having to fight with one hand tied behind their back. The fast economic growth is happening outside of the 'Western World.' Thus, the Western World will want to connect (or better, fly direct) to new cities. For most of these new cities, hubbing will be required due to the lack of P2P demand (to secondary European cities). The hubbing could happen anywhere and for many, it would be prefered to hub in Europe. But that requires high frequency flights to maximize connections. EK is the master of connections. Time for many other airlines to step up. But first, their governments must start helping them (e.g., night ops at FRA).

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8071 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 21):

Why a 3rd runway at LHR would make that possible, combined with 24/7 operations Err...

Ok, the new runway and soon to be finished new terminal will really help FRA. In particular with its 24/7 operations. Err...

Then just expand AMS and... oh. What's that limit on night flights?

Well then France just needs to open up the bilaterals to CDG and increase the flights. Oh... France isn't doing that...

You also forgot to add:

Don't want to serve an extra hot towel in Y+, time for a strike.    Humongous need for a 90-110 seat plane to make carrier very competitive? Sorry, against our scope clauses.   

M.E. carriers don't have to deal with this.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1316 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 7889 times:

Quoting Amsterdam (Reply 18):
It's not possible to compete with the Persian Gulf carriers.

Ofcourse it's possible, but European legacy carriers prefer to heavily compete with other airlines from neighbouring countries, work together with unions so salary costs can go sky high and employees can go on strike, decrease inflight services and increase ticket prices... And then they start complaining about so called 'unfair' competition such as Emirates. Airlines such as KL and LH should have a look at themselfs first to see what can be improved before they start complaining.   



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5435 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 8):
Garuda doesn't have an aircraft capable of flying CGK-AMS non-stop, and even if they did, their price sensitive customer base wouldn't mind the stop

KL is planning AMS-CGK nonstop and with GA entering Skyteam everything is possible.

Quoting Amsterdam (Reply 11):
They shouldn't be allowed more flights to AMS than KLM has to dubai.

There is no sign that the aviation treaty between The Netherlands and UAE is up to renewal. Thus it will be hard for EK to start double daily pax flights unless they drop their cargo flights (which is unlikely).


25 BrouAviation : Because KL doesn't send 700 seats daily to DXB, EK shouldn't as well? Why? Please keep factual. Yep. Every airline can do so when they can show banks
26 Post contains images EPA001 : That is also the best reason I can think of. I would agree. If the B77W can be operated profitably, the A380 is within reach of enough passenger numb
27 behramjee : KLM used to operate double daily A 332s to DXB not too long ago and just recently reduced to 12 weekly. You sure that EK can only operate daily pax f
28 cmf : It is often up to the airlines to set the actual time and residual values, as long as they can justify them. Many airlines have changed the schedules
29 Post contains images lightsaber : To a degree. But the fastest depreciation rate is set by local tax laws. I recall SQ switching depreciation rates when times become tough... But asid
30 NTLDaz : Garuda's onboard offering is excellent. At least on a par with Emirates ( excepting IFE ) and arguably better than KLM. It is reputation they need to
31 HiJazzey : I don't grasp why faster depreciation is advantageous, it should be the opposite. Accruing a larger depreciation charge on your income statement every
32 cmf : Not just SQ. From top of my head, LH and just about every US airline. But just about every airline have that option. It's just that most of them have
33 NTLDaz : Airlines only have the option to do this if their local tax laws are favourable. It's a mighty bold statement to say just about every airline has the
34 cmf : LH is at 12 years. US Airways was at 11 years but as so many other (all?) have extended it. QF say they depreciate over the time they expect to hold
35 hal9213 : Yea, and you are EXACTLY pointing it out. The EU is darn blocking themselves. Why blame other fairly competing carriers (dont come up with this EK ge
36 lightsaber : They should. The issue is most don't to boost the reported profits. If an aircraft is under-depreciated, but from a cash-flow standpoint should be ro
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