fpetrutiu From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 755 posts, RR: 0 Posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 2443 times:
This is funny, Carpatair is closing its TSR-CLJ route and presence at CLJ over a dispute with airport personel over de-icing an aircraft before departure. The problems started when CLJ ground personel wanted to de-ice an early morning departure flight and the captain refused. Hours after the dispute, Carpatair cancelled all flights to the airport and announced that it had decided to close the station.
I find it interesting that the airport personel acctually argued with the captain over de-icing needs. The captain has the final say, so if he did not want it why force the issue? Secondly, it is interesting that the company would close a station over a small dispute like this.
flyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1005 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2021 times:
I don't speak Romanian, but I do speak Spanish and French so through the similarities in those languages I understand about 70% of the article. It does seem to only mention this one incident, but I would be very surprised if that was all there was to the story. It does indeed seem strange to pull out of a station over a small disagreement. Perhaps there is a history between Carpatair and CLJ that we are not aware of, and this was the straw that broke the camel's back?
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fpetrutiu From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 755 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1775 times:
Quoting flyingalex (Reply 1): I don't speak Romanian, but I do speak Spanish and French so through the similarities in those languages I understand about 70% of the article. It does seem to only mention this one incident, but I would be very surprised if that was all there was to the story. It does indeed seem strange to pull out of a station over a small disagreement. Perhaps there is a history between Carpatair and CLJ that we are not aware of, and this was the straw that broke the camel's back?
Yes, supposedly this was the only incident and Carpatair decided to pull out, there was no ongoing duspute to speak of. The only problem Carpatair was having at CLJ was competition from Tarom, although not on CLJ-TSR route, but other cities Carpatair serves with 1 stop at TSR,while RO non-stop from CLJ.
CX Flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6341 posts, RR: 56 Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1172 times:
What I find strange is that is ever there is an arguement for icing, it is the flight crew who want it and ground crew who do not want it, because they do not want the extra trouble. Flight crew normally err on the safe side and they get an opinion that deicing is required, the invariably follow that advice and get the aircraft deiced. If there is doubt, there is no doubt - do the deice.
I would certainly hope that in any case the ground staff thought it was required, that they would push the captain hard to get it done. Certainly the captain has the final say but the ground engineer would not be doing their job if they let an aircraft depart without deicing when they thought it was necessary only to see the aircraft crash in a fireball at the end of the runway because it stalled upon liftoff. I think the courts would not look down favourably upon the engineer in that case. I find it biazzare that the Captain and airline would be arguing against de-icing.
fpetrutiu From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 755 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1030 times:
Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 8): I would certainly hope that in any case the ground staff thought it was required, that they would push the captain hard to get it done. Certainly the captain has the final say but the ground engineer would not be doing their job if they let an aircraft depart without deicing when they thought it was necessary only to see the aircraft crash in a fireball at the end of the runway because it stalled upon liftoff. I think the courts would not look down favourably upon the engineer in that case. I find it biazzare that the Captain and airline would be arguing against de-icing.
Well said, but closing the base over this argument??? I think that is even more bizarre.
RamblinMan From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 1081 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 936 times:
Quoting CX Flyboy (Reply 8): Flight crew normally err on the safe side and they get an opinion that deicing is required, the invariably follow that advice and get the aircraft deiced.
Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Perhaps there was clearly no need, and as pspfan suspected, the ground service company was acting like a skeezy mechanic and trying to run up the bill with unnecessary services.
Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 10): but closing the base over this argument?
I'm with the others who suspect that this wasn't an isolated incident, it was just the only one mentioned in the news piece. If the yields were marginal to begin with, and then you add in repeated delays and costs from unnecessary deicing, then it's quite easy to imagine a scenario where it's just not worth it anymore.
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yeah, its pretty ridiculous that this would happen....
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