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Possible LH Wide Body Order. Credible?  
User currently offlineCarls From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 522 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 2 hours ago) and read 25712 times:

In my last flight from Caracas to Frankfurt i spend almost two hours talking to a LH FA, I have met him several times before and while I can't say we are friends we have since many times now spend some time talking about several topics. i asked him about LH fleet and he said that they were getting ready to order a new fleet of new generation aircraft.

This is what he mentioned to me:

85 Aircraft in total:
20 Airbus A351
35 Airbus A359
30 Boeing 789

I am not familiar with the process of aircraft ordering and how airlines make projections for their need but 85 planes looks like an small order for an airline like Lufthansa. I was thinking more like 100 or 130 since they order for LH, LX and Austrian.

I just want to share this rumor with all of you, and see what you guys have o say about it.

128 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12628 posts, RR: 46
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 hour ago) and read 25554 times:
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Frankly, I'd be amazed if this site's first news about a potential LH order came from an FA and was accurate.  Wow!

With regard to the makeup of the "order", if it's only for LH, then it would be about the right size - LH currently operates 69 A333/A343/A346. But, with 24 A340-600s in their fleet, I would have expected to see a higher number of A350-1000s.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1324 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 hour ago) and read 25386 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 1):
But, with 24 A340-600s in their fleet, I would have expected to see a higher number of A350-1000s.

I would too. I am of the opinion though that part of the 747-8 orders/options are slated to eventually replace some A340-600



"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
User currently offlineSHAQ From Panama, joined Jun 2007, 381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 hour ago) and read 25383 times:

Galley Gossip , isn't credible my friend!
I'm sure that LH will make a big order of widebodies , to replace the ones they have, but I don't know if it will be now.
As a sidenote, CM FA's once (2005) were talking that IB will be having a hub in PTY...



Studying hard, for flying right!
User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6490 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 hour ago) and read 25379 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 1):
Frankly, I'd be amazed if this site's first news about a potential LH order came from an FA and was accurate.

Exactly, if it is a FA rumor, the it is very likely, not to be valid.


User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12517 posts, RR: 35
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 hour ago) and read 25359 times:

There is definitely a need for them; I have no doubt that he was being honest with you, but what he heard might have come through several other people and some of the information was probably lost/changed along the way.

The A340-300 fleet is not getting any younger; the A350-900 seems to be the obvious choice there; the A330-300s and A346s are newer, so they probably won't need replacing until later this decade (along with LX's A340s), but again the A359 (and 351) seem the obvious choices; I just don't see how the 787 fits into LH's plans.


User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7077 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 hour ago) and read 25110 times:

Well, I would take this order with a grain of salt but it looks plausible from the aircraft ordered, I would have expected the same.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 1):
I would have expected to see a higher number of A350-1000s.

They have a lot of 747-8Is coming that will eventually replace some of the A346s.

Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):
I just don't see how the 787 fits into LH's plans.

Does not mean that the 787 has to be for LH, but for OS or LX ? Would love to see a 787 in LH colors though   Also LH always said that they don´t want to be dependant on one manufacturer.

Quoting Carls (Thread starter):
I am not familiar with the process of aircraft ordering and how airlines make projections for their need but 85 planes looks like an small order for an airline like Lufthansa

Keep in mind LH never placed huge orders but has more of a conservative approach.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1581 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (3 years ago) and read 25051 times:

Quoting columba (Reply 6):
They have a lot of 747-8Is coming that will eventually replace some of the A346s.

Presumably they will also replace some 747-400's too some of them are older than the A340-600's



BV
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5624 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (3 years ago) and read 24998 times:

Quoting Carls (Thread starter):
but 85 planes looks like an small order for an airline like Lufthansa.

Things have really changed over the years. It wasn't that long ago that an 85-plane widebody order would be considered incredible. Today, it's considered on the light side.  

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently onlinepolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2257 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (3 years ago) and read 24994 times:

Quoting columba (Reply 6):
Does not mean that the 787 has to be for LH, but for OS or LX ? Would love to see a 787 in LH colors though Also LH always said that they don´t want to be dependant on one manufacturer.

787s might also be nice for growing the DUS and MUC hubs to thinner destinations.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31102 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (3 years ago) and read 24983 times:
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Quoting scbriml (Reply 1):
But, with 24 A340-600s in their fleet, I would have expected to see a higher number of A350-1000s.

A number of those A340-600s are relatively new-builds, are they not?

If so, this could be just the first tranche, though I tend to agree with others that some of those A340-600s might be replaced with 747-8's on routes that saw a strong up-tick in Business Class seating as I expect the A350-1000 would be six-abreast in Business, as well, and fit around the same 60 seats as the A340-600 as opposed to the 80 going into the 747-8.



Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):
I just don't see how the 787 fits into LH's plans.

A lighter weight and less powerful (thirsty) engines might give it better economics on the shorter mission segments the A330-300 flies.

Mind you, I've long been of the opinion LH would be an all-Airbus airline if they could, but since they had to take the 747-8 to be the 400-seat bridge between the A340-600/A350-1000 and A380-800, adding the 787 (with GEnx power) could give them better negotiating power with both Airbus and Boeing for not only their own orders, but also for other members of the LH Group who will need fleet replacements.

[Edited 2011-10-22 10:48:06]

User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1581 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (3 years ago) and read 24844 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
Mind you, I've long been of the opinion LH would be an all-Airbus airline if they could, but since they had to take the 747-8 to be the 400-seat bridge between the A340-600/A350-1000 and A380-800, adding the 787 (with GEnx power) could give them better negotiating power with both Airbus and Boeing for not only their own orders, but also for other members of the LH Group who will need fleet replacements.


Why? You could as easily argue that having RR powered A346 & A388 makes RR the logical 787 engine choice from a spares and supplier point of view, they did change LX A330's to RR.

But as LH is as much an engineering and maintenance group who does a large amount of GE work I don't think it makes a difference they will get a good deal from either OEM. They have shown its possible to order nearly everything from everyone and still run a profitable organisation



BV
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (3 years ago) and read 24824 times:

Quoting FRNT787 (Reply 2):
747-8 orders/options are slated to eventually replace some A340-600

  

That's what I have been led to believe.

On a somewhat related note, a friend of mine of works at CLT management has said that LH has asked CLT to model the 747-8 at their current gate to see if it will fit. I don't know if its true or not, but it is quite possible that LH is planning to use the 747-8 as a A346 replacement. If so, CLT might not be the only station LH is asking to model the 747-8.



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User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31102 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 24257 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
Mind you, I've long been of the opinion LH would be an all-Airbus airline if they could...
Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 11):
Why?

Because they've selected Airbus consistently when it's come to replacement and expansion: A320, A330, A340 and A380.

And I'm not knocking them for it.   

They're doing what's best for them and having a single OEM for your mainline fleet brings many benefits, even more so with the commonality Airbus tries to build across their families.


User currently offlinebmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 24122 times:

Quoting Carls (Thread starter):
This is what he mentioned to me:

85 Aircraft in total:
20 Airbus A351
35 Airbus A359
30 Boeing 789

The Airbus orders would be pretty much expected. I would be surprised if LH does order the Boeing 789 having never operated the 767.



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8481 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 24081 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 13):
Because they've selected Airbus consistently when it's come to replacement and expansion: A320, A330, A340 and A380.

Those also happened to be the best aircraft in their respective categories at the time of the orders. I think that's more relevant.
The A320s were ordered long before there was even a paper 737NG. The A340's were ordered before there was a 777. The A333's spank any other aircraft in their profile mission, some say it's just as good as the 787. And Boeing didn't have a 748i when LH ordered the A380. I like to think that LH didn't oder Airbuses but rather, that LH ordered the best aircraft available at the time of each respective order.


User currently offlinefpetrutiu From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 23737 times:

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 14):
The Airbus orders would be pretty much expected. I would be surprised if LH does order the Boeing 789 having never operated the 767.

What does that have anything to do with anything? Are you saying only 767 operators order 787's?


User currently offline328JET From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 23236 times:

Guys,

forget about the B748I as A346 replacement at LH.
There are no plans to replace these birds right now and they will all operate from MUC starting in 2012/2013.

The first older generation A343s are leaving the fleet in 2012 and will be replaced by already ordered A333s.

I could see an order of A359, A35J and B789s, but in the moment LH has fix orders for 9 A388s, 4 A333s and 20 B748s - that should fill their intermediate needs...

In the long-run, LH will have to decide if they focus on A350s, B777NG or B787s.


User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 21802 times:

Quoting 328JET (Reply 17):
forget about the B748I as A346 replacement at LH.
There are no plans to replace these birds right now and they will all operate from MUC starting in 2012/2013.

If they move the birds from FRA to MUC then there will definitely be a need to replace them at FRA with 748i. One way or the other, the 748i will step in the shoes of the A346; that is not to say that the A346 is aging fast. There's still a lot of life in the frames and I expect LH to start replacing them no earlier than 2018. The A343 is a different issue though. It's very plausible to replace them with the A332 they still have on order, they do just as good on most if not all routes the A343 operates. So I doubt any order for LH Passage for the 787 will come in soon, and even if, minor.

Quoting 328JET (Reply 17):
In the long-run, LH will have to decide if they focus on A350s, B777NG or B787s.

The thought of LH operating the 777 in pax service is very pleasing, but I seriously doubt it. They just ordered 5 frames for LCAG and by the time they have figured out its abilities in the fleet, translating it into pax service, the 777 will not be the best buy on the market anymore. That's why all my money is on the A35J.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 15):
I like to think that LH didn't oder Airbuses but rather, that LH ordered the best aircraft available at the time of each respective order.

   Exactly my thought



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15780 posts, RR: 27
Reply 19, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 21544 times:

I think that A350s are a foregone conclusion at some point, but unless such an order would cover aircraft for their subsidiaries as well, I don't see why they want the 787. I think that the 787 would be a great choice for Austrian and possibly Swiss, but I don't see Lufthansa having the need.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 11):
Why? You could as easily argue that having RR powered A346 & A388 makes RR the logical 787 engine choice from a spares and supplier point of view, they did change LX A330's to RR.

LH Technik has enough resources that commonality isn't as much of an issue for them.

Quoting Semaex (Reply 18):
The thought of LH operating the 777 in pax service is very pleasing, but I seriously doubt it.

With the 747-8i orders, the Lufthansa 777 ship has sailed even further. Aerologic is as close as you'll get.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2854 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 20541 times:

Quoting fpetrutiu (Reply 16):
Quoting bmacleod (Reply 14):
The Airbus orders would be pretty much expected. I would be surprised if LH does order the Boeing 789 having never operated the 767.

What does that have anything to do with anything? Are you saying only 767 operators order 787's?

I guess he's saying that since LH have not operated a long-range wide body of the 767 size, they will continue this way, pass on the 787, and choose the larger 359 and 35J.

But, as several have pointed out, the 787 could be very adequate for Austrian, which does operates the 767.



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User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31102 posts, RR: 85
Reply 21, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 20257 times:
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Quoting UALWN (Reply 20):
I guess he's saying that since LH have not operated a long-range wide body of the 767 size, they will continue this way, pass on the 787, and choose the larger 359 and 35J.

LH is on record stating the 787-8 was too small for them, which sounds logical as they never operated the A330-200 in any sizable quantity.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 20162 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
Quoting kaitak (Reply 5):
I just don't see how the 787 fits into LH's plans.

A lighter weight and less powerful (thirsty) engines might give it better economics on the shorter mission segments the A330-300 flies.
Quoting Stitch (Reply 21):
LH is on record stating the 787-8 was too small for them, which sounds logical as they never operated the A330-200 in any sizable quantity.

I dont' see anything smaller than a B789 for mainline LH. I certainly see them getting the B787-10X for A333 missions. They aren't in a hurry either as many of their A333's are new so for them getting B787-10X in say post 2018 will be ok.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 15):
The A333's spank any other aircraft in their profile mission, some say it's just as good as the 787.

The A333 is an incredible plane for its mission profile, but like everything else, it will eventually have to give way to newer planes.

Quoting 328JET (Reply 17):
I could see an order of A359, A35J and B789s, but in the moment LH has fix orders for 9 A388s, 4 A333s and 20 B748s - that should fill their intermediate needs...

I see this for LH was well (though I think LH subsidiaries will be getting the B789). I wonder if the B788 has a place for LH subsidiaries...  



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25626 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 20163 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 10):
Quoting scbriml (Reply 1):
But, with 24 A340-600s in their fleet, I would have expected to see a higher number of A350-1000s.

A number of those A340-600s are relatively new-builds, are they not?

Delivery dates of LH's 24 A346s:

2003 - 4
2004 - 6
2006 - 4
2007 - 3
2008 - 4
2009 - 3


User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 705 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (2 years 12 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 19992 times:

The real problem with the A346 is not his age, but its fuel consumption, which is 8-10% higher than the 77W (at Mach 0.83 vs. Mach 0.85 for 77W)

25 Semaex : Actually LCAG Lufthansa Cargo is as close as it gets, and mind you; that's pretty close! You may be right on the fuel consumption, but according to L
26 zkojh : if this becomes true and a big if, would love t see the 787's go to OS, could replace there 767's and 772 fleet, and just have one longhaul aircraft.
27 flash330 : It fuel costs are a worry for LH then the 744s will be gone way before the A346
28 Stitch : Per LH's numbers they're pretty darn close: in terms of liters burned per 100 passenger kilometers, it is 4.1 for the A346 to 4.2 for the 747-400.
29 flash330 : Sure but with the oldest 744 Passing 100,000 cycles theyre not getting any cheaper to maintain either, just seems silly the idea of being more concer
30 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Practically every carrier which has compared the A346 against the B77W has purchased the B77W over the A346. The order book speaks volumes.. Also, LH
31 Post contains images queb : A friend of mine, an Air France 777-200ER retired pilot, was really annoyed to have to slow down every time it flew behind a Lufthansa A340...
32 Post contains images wilco737 : Rumours rumours... Many many rumours and none of them are credible at that time. The big order for LH and new airplanes is due September 2012. So we h
33 Post contains images cmf : But never had an issue flying behind a 767
34 Post contains images scbriml : Indeed they are, but it's not like LH could get -1000s tomorrow, is it? I'm going to have to play the "source?" card on that one, my friend. Leahy on
35 LOWS : Will that include OS/LX/SN and the regionals? I would love to see the 788 or 9 for OS. I fly SZG-VIE-IAD frequently and in Y they are showing their a
36 Post contains images wilco737 : Yes. 2012 will be a big year. The guy I was talking to (no FA, he was from higher position) said that we need to order many airplanes in 2012. Renew
37 LOWS : And at VO they still have those awful looking F100/70s that wouldn't be missed.
38 kaitak : I wouldn't say they are bad looking, but they're not getting any younger. No doubt OS will benefit from LH's buying power.
39 Post contains images SASMD82 : So in 2020 the LH long haul fleet must look like this: A380 B748 A351 A359 A333 Very nice I must admit! To replace the A340-300 with Swiss, to replace
40 LOWS : Yes they are lovely on the outside, but the cabin (on these but also almost every other OS or VO ship) needs an update. That puke green is awful and
41 FlyboyOz : i suspect that they will order 100 aircraft in total. 15 - maybe B787-1000s. Boeing may build B787-1000 in the near future
42 ZRH : I think the 789 is too small for LX and its three class layout. They replaced the 332 with 333 for this reason. I assume that LX needs at least the s
43 frigatebird : That's still very young, and with probably not too high resell value, it would make sense for LH to keep them for a while - as long as they make mone
44 Post contains images wilco737 : Yes, that is true. I can only repeat what that guy said. And he didn't rule other manufacturer out. LH never wanted to be reliable on one manufacture
45 Post contains images Chiad : What? 20 Airbus A351, 35 Airbus A359 and 30 Boeing 789 would be worth some $21 Billion at list prices. Is there an order valued more than this ever?
46 Stitch : The order EK placed at the 2007 Dubai Air Show for 70 A350s and 11 A380s was worth almost USD 35 billion.
47 Post contains images wilco737 : I am sure there have been orders which were more expensive. But $21 Billion is not particularly a small order, is it? It has to be paid for. And thin
48 B777LRF : If anything, given that LH has NEO's with GTF on order, they are liable to order a Leap-X offering. And that brings the MAX nicely into play provided,
49 Post contains images Stitch : Not to my eyes and I imagine those who are suggesting it's a small order are looking at the number of planes more than the dollar value. Though it sa
50 Post contains links and images airbazar : Do you two want to re-phrase your statements? View Large View MediumPhoto © Javier Rodriguez - Iberian Spotters
51 Post contains images cmf : The plane taken from Condor for flights to Australia. Keeping the Condor seats doomed it from day one. I have rarely heard people as after making a r
52 Burkhard : Lufthansa uses to fly its long range planes for 20-25 years. So there is no need for A346 replacement before 2025. Lufthansa has 9 A388 on order, and
53 Post contains links and images Jacobin777 : While I was able to find to source of the "tactic", I can't find the article where LH took Airbus on it for their offer. I know there was a thread or
54 Stitch : Be interesting if Boeing takes a similar tactic with the 777-300ER vis-a-vis the A350-1000...
55 BMI727 : Probably a combination of A320s and A350s. Maybe a few CSeries mixed in, but Boeing will be out except for the subsidiaries. It isn't as though one m
56 ferpe : LH have ordered the CS100/330 for Swiss and their SVP for plane acquisition has publicly stated the CS is a very efficient frame and they are very pl
57 Semaex : Keep in mind the resale values of the frames LH has in their fleets, particularly the A343 and A346. We know that LH has excellent frames which are kn
58 Stitch : Would Boeing entertain the idea of compensating customers for the higher fuel-burn of the 777-300ER to secure sales against the A350-1000, a tactic A
59 328JET : No... They will be replaced by the A343s currently operated in MUC... FRA will focus on A388, B748I/B744, A343 and A333. MUC will focus on A346 and A
60 LOWS : What about that A333 they had on ORD-DUS? I really enjoyed the flight and connecting at DUS is a breeze.
61 qfa787380 : Not for a WB order though.
62 qfa787380 : And possibly a very smart move by LH. They will get preferred slots due to their size and status. By this time next year more will be known about 2 k
63 Semaex : I thought we already figured out that the A343 is not to stay a lot longer in the fleet. So why switch them around the hubs a couple of times, it doe
64 columba : Agreed, Also LH has not placed an order for the A319NEO so I guess their narrowbody fleet will eventually look like this: C-Series A320NEO A321NEO fo
65 qfa787380 : Would they not consider the 787-10X, seeing Boeing likely will offer it in the next 12 months? 789 7810X 359 3510 748I 380
66 JoeCanuck : In my opinion, LH seems to be less influenced by government pressure than perhaps some. They aren't afraid of mixed fleets preferring efficiency over
67 kiwiandrew : Couldn't agree more. I am constantly amused at threads where people state that airline X will NEVER order ( or even consider ordering ) anything from
68 Stitch : For the record, I've always said that, including in this thread. Not calling you out here, but it would be nice if folks would have the courtesy to a
69 Jacobin777 : How many people have stated that? Not to many recently, especially in light of the B787/350 combo orders we've been seeing lately.
70 fpetrutiu : Doubt that, maybe for a short time to make a 777 customer from jumping ship, but with the new 777 on the horizon, there is not need. The 777 still ho
71 JoeCanuck : I hear you. I really wasn't intending to portray you as pigeon holing LH. I used that quote from you to springboard my comment.
72 Stitch : This assume that Boeing is actually able to bring a 777NG to market. I expect they will, but we should not forget that Airbus floated the A340-600 En
73 fpetrutiu : Sure, but it was too little too late. That was back in like 2006 right? The 777 was already killing the A340.
74 Stitch : But the 777-300ER had only been in operation for a couple of years. Boeing is saying they may not have the 777NG ready until next decade. If Airbus d
75 Post contains links fpetrutiu : Very true, except that most airlines that would consider the 777NG orver the A350-1000 already operate 777's. According to the recent article cited b
76 Semaex : Gents, Let's try to keep this on topic and not drift into another A-B thread.
77 Post contains links lightsaber : What will its code really be? A35J seems most likely. (10th letter). Concur. Now the A346s might be 'abused' in other roles. The 748I will first be g
78 Post contains images Chiad : Oh yeah .. that one. You're right. Thanks for reminding me.
79 328JET : To summarize some LH decisions for you: - The decision to bring all A346s to MUC in exchange with the A343 is made. - The decision if DUS will be mixe
80 bavair : Why? They are new aircraft that are doing as well as any, and as a PAX i prefer the A346 over any other type because of the easy isle access and low
81 airbazar : Why not? Will they make DUS an actual base or just schedule it in a W pattern? (i.e. FRA-EWR-DUS-EWR-FRA). Even if they make it a base, the A333 and
82 Post contains images PanHAM : won't be possible, the BOD has submitted the request for purchase to the supervisory board and the supervisory board has agreed to buy the 346. The s
83 Semaex : Can you link us somewhere?
84 columba : Really ? The only difference are the engines and I doubt that LH will do any maintenance on them in DUS. If something has to be done the planes would
85 na : I would be very surprised if LH would order A346 replacements before 2015. A 77W is more expensive to buy, past its prime at least for new customers
86 Semaex : Not sure if I remember correctly, but isn't the typerating for A330/A340 almost the same, or just needs a little adaption? If so, I guess for LH pilo
87 Burkhard : While I agree in general with your comment, 15 years for an aircraft flown and maintained all its life by LH is more half life than end of life...
88 Post contains images astuteman : And the A320NEO with Leap-X of course... There'll be a reason for that. There wasn't one. Leahy made his comments long after LH had already ordered A
89 Burkhard : You seem to ignore that Lufthansa+Swiss is a very profitable airline, with 575Mio Euro = 805Mio$ operative profit in 9 months 2011, makes this profit
90 Post contains links fpetrutiu : http://truckandbarter.com/2006/02/airbus-to-give.html Enplane 2006: "So very seriously environmentally-concerned Lufthansa is polluting the earth some
91 Post contains images scbriml : There's a reason the article's headline ends in a "?"
92 robffm2 : That's exactly what the EU ETS is designed to do. And that covers all planes alike, including the old 747s.
93 PanHAM : well, but you do not need an ETS for that. Market, availability and economics dictates replacement of aircraft and if the Government takes money away
94 328JET : Not yet unfortunately. And the range and do not forget the rating. Not every pilot at LH can fly all three sub-types.
95 Jacobin777 : In theory in certainly makes sense (why would it not, especially when the chief salesman basically offers it), but since I cannot find the source for
96 USAF336TFS : Latest news. At LH's New York office, a question was asked at a very recent Employee Town Hall meeting about an impending 787 order. The response by a
97 na : Both very welcome!
98 Post contains images columba : great to hear from you I always thought that LH did not decide on the 787/A350, yet, because they want to see what Boeing is up to with the -10. A 78
99 USAF336TFS : And it's great to hear from you too, my friend! That was said during this meeting as well. Also mentioned, contrary to recent news concerning Cargolu
100 Post contains images Jacobin777 : While I've been stating ad nauseam that the B787-10X would fit in LH's (and its subsidiaries) fleet, I'm a bit surprised about the B789. I see LH ord
101 Semaex : I mean no offense to anybody when saying this, but I would not expect any other statement by LH New York office.
102 Post contains images Stitch : So then LH's Frankfurt Office would only say... "We're not ordering any additional 747-8's, at least for the next years. We will be exercising option
103 Post contains images Semaex : FWIW, it somewhat mirrors the mentality over here [I know I shouldn't have started that patriotic BS...^^][Edited 2011-11-01 20:38:26]
104 fpetrutiu : Can you go into a little more detail? I have not seen any actual perfomance numbers? Can you share?
105 I380North : Many here want you to believe that the difference between profitability of an airline only depends on the price of oil and the absence of 4 holers in
106 Post contains images columba : That is great to hear, hope I will fly on one soon
107 Post contains images ogepma : And I have no idea why everyone thinks like that? By now we should all know that LH doesn't operate like other airlines around. They are still more p
108 something : That's the one thing that continues to puzzle me. The A346s is always made out to have a whole in its tanks, but it's actually more efficient than a
109 columba : A few reason why I believe LH has more than high interest in the 787-10: The 787-10 is the only version of both the 787 and A350 that is not official
110 frigatebird : I agree. That's why airlines continue to fly not only A340's, but also 767's and also won't immediately send their 777's to the desert once the A350
111 Burkhard : To be more precise, of 77W ( which are slightly bigger than the A346). Comparing the A346 CASM with the 777-200 ( which are the vast majorities of to
112 something : That would be the logical replacement, but who knows when that one will become available? The size of the A346 is not a god-given dimension and LH co
113 USAF336TFS : No offense taken, but you know what?? The Board member and Fleet Planning member are both Germans... And both had just arrived from Seattle, the prev
114 Ronaldo747 : The 787-9 for LH would be an excellent long range jet for thinner routes and new destinations, especially South America, so the combination -9/-10 wou
115 flyglobal : And Boeing will give special conditions to get another major European airline for the 787 in this case, even if Return of investment is important now
116 columba : I forgot that in my post above, slots for both the 787/A350 are getting rare with the 787-10 LH can be one of the first airlines to get it So my pred
117 something : Should LH decide on a 787-900/ 787-1000 mix as the smallest long haul aircraft in their fleet, it could become the replacement for all of Swiss's, Br
118 PanHAM : Condor is no longer part of the Lufthansa Concern. They are under the umbrella of Thomas Koch , pardon Cook....and I wonder how they will replace thei
119 columba : Condor is not owned by LH anymore still I believe that they will eventually order the 787 as a 767 replacement I don´t think so they just placed a b
120 something : Oh, my mistake then. I was under the impression they went back to LH after Karstadt went bankrupt. They also have a very close partnership (share lou
121 flyglobal : At the end I see LH with both Manufacturers. Boeing will want to sell something other then the 748I when they see that the NB chance will be not earli
122 Post contains images frigatebird : If Boeing wins that one, it would one hell of a coup. But I doubt Airbus would let that happen, and I don't think would be in the interest of the LH
123 BMI727 : I could see Boeings other than 747s in LH group, but I don't see Lufthansa themselves finding much use for the 787. Maybe Swiss and probably SN and O
124 Post contains images USAF336TFS : I couldn't agree with you more about the fleet composition! Those beautiful 787s, whatever flavor they are, are going to look awesome with the LH liv
125 328JET : I cannot agree. That would mean LH would have a single pilot-pool for every a/c type they operate on longhauls... This would kill all the benefits th
126 columba : I do hope for LH ordering the 787 but I would not read too much into that, maybe they were just getting an update on the 747-8I
127 flash330 : And isn't the Boeing sales office in Chicago?
128 USAF336TFS : And in Seattle. Yes they were discussing the 748i as one would guess, but my understanding is that the 787 was also in the mix. They also had represe
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