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Southwest Jet, Fuel Truck Collide At BWI  
User currently offlineOURBOEING From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 16372 times:

Luckily everyone is safe.


LINTHICUM, Md. (AP) — Officials at Baltimore-Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport say no one was injured when a Southwest Airlines jet collided with a fuel truck.

An airport spokesman says the plane was struck by the truck after landing at BWI from Orlando Saturday night. The spokesman described the incident as “very rare” and says the plane was taken out of service while the crash is investigated.

(Copyright 2011 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAloha717200 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 16384 times:

We sure this was on the runway, or on a taxiway?

User currently offlinebobnwa From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 16325 times:

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 1):
We sure this was on the runway, or on a taxiway?

I would wager it was on the ramp or a taxiway


User currently offlineIndependence76 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 16282 times:

What regulations and procedures are in place that can be implemented or should have stopped a vehicle (especially a fuel truck) getting this close to the active runway?

User currently offlineAloha717200 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 16216 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 2):
I would wager it was on the ramp or a taxiway

It's just a pet peeve of mine when the media ALWAYS refers to any sort of ramp or taxiway incident as being "on the runway". I have a feeling that had this jet and this fuel truck collided on a "runway" the driver of the truck would be in the hospital or worse, and the plane significantly damaged or worse.

This sounds like a low speed impact...unlikely to be a runway collision.


User currently offlinefutureualpilot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 16191 times:

Normally vehicles are supposed to give way to aircraft, but I've seen more than a few drivers not pay attention or blatantly disregard said rule and cut us off or race in front of, or around our airplane.

User currently offlineNBGSkyGod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 15945 times:

From what I remember working the ramp at BWI, the WN side was a nightmare to get around, wtih planes and vehicles speeding all over the place. It always seemed that the airport driving rules did not apply to WN.

User currently offlineWNCrew From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 15780 times:

It was VERY minor. No evacuation, no major delay even. The pax were deplaned, the aircraft pulled from service and the flight continued on within an hr to it's intended destination (it was a through flight). Thank you media...for the false drama!

User currently offlineLOWS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 15728 times:

Quoting NBGSkyGod (Reply 6):
From what I remember working the ramp at BWI, the WN side was a nightmare to get around, wtih planes and vehicles speeding all over the place. It always seemed that the airport driving rules did not apply to WN.

Was that before or after they had their own terminal?


User currently offlineG500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 15462 times:
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The media likes to call any piece of concrete on the airport's property "a runway"...

otherwise what the hell would a fuel truck be doing on a runway?


User currently offlineaztrainer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 15452 times:

What is the possibilities of the driver texting or using their phone and not paying attention? I also agree about the location being erroneous, as if the plane departed an hour after arrival means that this is more of a non-story.

User currently offlinenkops From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 15303 times:

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 4):
It's just a pet peeve of mine when the media ALWAYS refers to any sort of ramp or taxiway incident as being "on the runway".

I agree 100%.... my first thought was "what the heck is a fuel truck doing on the runway??"


User currently offlinejoelyboy911 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 15114 times:

Don't you people know that Runway = Tarmac = Any location at the airport?   

User currently offlineBEG2IAH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 14557 times:
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Looks like a case of Mrs. Loretta Houk (from the movie: Moving Violations).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdWeP...playnext=1&list=PL2C5B4A905D8F5CF7

Sorry I couldn't find the actual scene when she's driving behind the plane.   A.net should have a movie scene library...

BEG2IAH


User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day ago) and read 13018 times:

Why the anti media rhetoric?...they are journalists just embellishing drek level news...that's what they do...they were not schooled in aviation and its complexities. While some meteorologists on the TV channels are pilots...they do not cover breaking news. Perhaps they should run their copy by the A/net moderators before running stories?

User currently offlineAloha717200 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day ago) and read 12832 times:

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 14):
Perhaps they should run their copy by the A/net moderators before running stories?

Yes, they should.   

It simply makes me question their integrity. A lot of small errors can add up to a big cumulative trend of incorrect reporting. These media outlets are the same ones we rely on for other breaking news, and when a lot of fine details get mixed up, you get infactual reporting. I've seen companies have their stock plummet in a day because some newspaper or newscaster screwed up a report on the company, for example. I just have more faith in the media if they get their facts straight. Calling a ramp a runway is, believe it or not, a fairly serious mistake because of what it entails. We hear about a stike on the ramp and we instantly know it's a slow-speed impact. We hear about something being run into on a RUNWAY during a plane's landing roll, and we instantly think high speed and possibly devastating results.

It matters and they need to do their homework just a bit better. Details matter.


User currently offlineredtag501 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (3 years 2 months 1 day ago) and read 12529 times:

Most likely occurred on the ramp. Operators of ground equipment are normally trained to watch for aircraft which have their collision lights on and to stop and wait for them even if the aircraft is motionless at the time. If nothing else, it means the aircraft is about to push back or that engines are running or being started. Both are hazardous situations for ground equipment and personnel. Of course, that said, airport ramps are busy places and fuel and other service contractors are under tight schedules to service flights--very easy for an operator to become distracted or preoccupied with trying to keep the schedule at the expense of safety regulations.

User currently offlineUSAIRWAYS321 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (3 years 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 12362 times:

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 14):
Why the anti media rhetoric?...they are journalists just embellishing drek level news...that's what they do...they were not schooled in aviation and its complexities. While some meteorologists on the TV channels are pilots...they do not cover breaking news. Perhaps they should run their copy by the A/net moderators before running stories?

Very quick, simple research would result in the media conveying the correct terminology. Either they consistently can't be bothered, or prefer to be wrong for a more sensational story, resulting in better ratings. I suspect it varies by media outlet, but either way, our gripes are certainly legitimate.


User currently offlinemoose135 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (3 years 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 12264 times:

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 15):
Calling a ramp a runway is, believe it or not, a fairly serious mistake because of what it entails.

And if a news story said "Truck collides with airplane on ramp..." almost everyone in the general public (you know, the 99.999% of people who aren't aviation enthusiasts) would wonder how an airplane goes up a ramp, and what it does when it gets to the top...


User currently offlineA346Dude From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (3 years 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 12264 times:

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 3):
What regulations and procedures are in place that can be implemented or should have stopped a vehicle (especially a fuel truck) getting this close to the active runway?

Vehicles (yes, even fuel trucks) regularly need to cross runways to access different areas of an airport. That being said I am not familiar with the layout at BWI so maybe it's not necessary there.

[Edited 2011-10-23 20:26:23]

User currently offline747fan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (3 years 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 11999 times:

Yikes, I wonder exactly where this occurred. If it was during pushback or taxi-in, at least some of the blame would go to the wingwalker(s).
As a side note, anybody driving out on the ramp needs to give way to all aircraft. If an aircraft is ready for pushback with its anti-collision lights on, then you're supposed to stop & wait until its out of the way. So I'm curious as to why these procedures weren't being followed (I know on a busy ramp such as WN's at BWI it can be hectic) or why the wingwalker(s) wasn't doing his/her job.

Earlier this year at my station (SDF), we had an AA MD-80 hit a fuel truck. I wasn't there, but apparently it was being towed from one of our hardstands to a gate, which is something we never do. Long story short, the airplane was being towed one way & the wingwalker was going the other way. And then, BAM.. Thankfully nobody was in the fuel truck as it got hit & was wedged in pretty good underneath the wing.

[Edited 2011-10-23 20:50:09]

User currently offlineha763 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (3 years 2 months 22 hours ago) and read 11428 times:
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Quoting A346Dude (Reply 19):

Vehicles (yes, even fuel trucks) regularly need to cross runways to access different areas of an airport.

It is not common for most vehicles to operate in aircraft movement areas, which includes runways and taxiways. In the U.S. you have to meet certain requirements in order to cross the line between the ramp and aircraft movement areas. The main requirement is that you have to be in constant communication with ATC. Just like with aircraft, you have to get clearance from ATC to move in the aircraft movement area.

All airports have marked roadways and perimeter roads to allow vehicles to move around the airport without crossing into the aircraft movement areas.


User currently offlineyyzame From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (3 years 2 months 22 hours ago) and read 11370 times:

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 3):

Before crossing the CAT III approach antenna's you're supposed to contact ATC let alone before you even attempt to cross the runway ... There are mandatory hold positions all around the airport before you cross taxiways or runways that you need permission from ATC to cross before doing so.


User currently offlineskyguyB727 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (3 years 2 months 21 hours ago) and read 10885 times:

Quoting redtag501 (Reply 16):
Operators of ground equipment are normally trained to watch for aircraft which have their collision lights on and to stop and wait for them even if the aircraft is motionless at the time. If nothing else, it means the aircraft is about to push back or that engines are running or being started.

Based on personal experience, that's not always the case with WN. A few years ago, while waiting for a WN flight in PHX at dusk, I watched the aircraft taxi to the gate under its own power with no beacons on. The same pilots who forgot to turn on the anti-collision beacons also forgot to turn on the seatbelt sign on takeoff from PHX and on landing at LAS. With no beacons flashing, a ground collision certainly would be possible.


User currently offlinefuelfool From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (3 years 2 months 21 hours ago) and read 10831 times:

The media is bad whenever there is an aviation accident/incident. The media did not start this thread, an A.net member did. Just saying.

25 Silver1SWA : It took 24 replies to point that out? Exactly. I only see the word "runway" used in the title of this thread, not in the story posted.
26 shnoob940 : Was it a hydrant truck or a tank truck? If it was a tank truck, I can see scenarios of it turning out quite badly. gibbo
27 Post contains images PITrules : Not at all true. The only requirement is an employment badge and a stop sign where road meets taxiway.
28 rbgso : Agree. I'm betting this happened on the tarmac somewhere. The level of inaccurate reporting in aviation journalism is amazing!
29 Silver1SWA : It wasn't the media this time! It was the thread starter!
30 474218 : Funny story: When I was stationed at JFK they implemented a new rule that all vehicles had to have the company name and vehicle number on the side! S
31 Post contains links ha763 : Please note that I said aircraft movement area, also known as air movement area or AMA. The boundry between the aircraft movement area and non-moveme
32 WNCrew : Yes and no, there were several articles aside from the one quoted that did indeed describe the incident as having happened on the "runway"...
33 bwphoto : At BWI, Northrup Grumman (formerly Westinghouse Electric Corp.) have a ramp (ramp W, I believe) from their own hangar. When I worked there in the 80s,
34 SANFan : I assume the OP (and thread title) have been corrected/updated? (I don't remember where "runway" appeared in the OP yesterday...) bb
35 Post contains images soon7x7 : Agreed 100%...my point is here on A/net I can't believe anyone regards anything the general press passes along to us...the viewing public as Gospel.
36 Post contains links and images PITrules : There are countless examples where this is not the case. For example, in the picture of ORD below, have a look at the airfield road at the far right
37 474218 : Additionally, how would ATC control the vehicles crossing the taxiway (or runway), radios are not mandatory!
38 fuelfool : You are correct. The thread title has been changed.[Edited 2011-10-24 21:04:30]
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