miaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 827 posts, RR: 0 Posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4818 times:
Was just looking online for flights and realized that UX is no longer offerring flights between MIA-MAD from March 2012. Does anyone know what killed this flight? Was it TP's new service and AA antitrust immunity?
miaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 827 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4455 times:
Would not be surprised if TP had something to do with it. It just amazes me that so many of MIA's new services are being canceled. Hope KL and TP dont get cut.
jonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 639 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4395 times:
mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31155 posts, RR: 76 Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4395 times:
Quoting miaintl (Reply 3):
Would not be surprised if TP had something to do with it. It just amazes me that so many of MIA's new services are being canceled. Hope KL and TP dont get cut.
Seriously? Two flights have been cancelled out of so many new services. MIA is the fastest growing airport in the United States. And it hasn't even been officially cancelled yet. While I do expect the flight to be cancelled permanently, Air Europa has told MIA officials it tentatively plans a June 2011 return, when a DL codeshare will also be in place. It's very similar to two years ago when Air Europa also cancelled for three months. But this time, with the mess going on in Europe, I seriously doubt UX will return.
Poor equipment, little marketing and filled planes with low-yielding Spanish-based tourists. Not a good way to gain a stronghold in the market, but I am surprised UX low cost structure apparently didn't help.
TAP and especially KLM are doing very well. Air Berlin's new Berlin flights are doing great and MUC might be added this coming year; IB is doing great to BCN; Transaero is doing decent to DME; Corsair keeps adding frequencies to Orly; now word that Meridiana is coming to MIA next year.
We might very well see downward adjustments next year, but, in case you haven't noticed (maybe you haven't, since you haven't noticed so many of MIA's new services are not being cancelled), the entire European economy is on the verge of collapse.
SCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8316 posts, RR: 5 Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4339 times:
Quoting miaintl (Reply 3): Would not be surprised if TP had something to do with it. It just amazes me that so many of MIA's new services are being canceled. Hope KL and TP dont get cut.
FYI, TP plans on increasing frequency on the LIS-MIA route to 5x weekly next year. KL plans on increasing frequency on the AMS-MIA route to 5x weekly next year.
mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31155 posts, RR: 76 Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 4303 times:
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 7): FYI, TP plans on increasing frequency on the LIS-MIA route to 5x weekly next year. KL plans on increasing frequency on the AMS-MIA route to 5x weekly next year.
Impossible - the routes are being cancelled, remember?
Whats the guarantee that TP and KL are not also filled with low-yielding tourist passengers. Remember that TP cut down its service from 5x weekly to 3x weekly this winter.
mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31155 posts, RR: 76 Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4060 times:
Quoting miaintl (Reply 11): . Remember that TP cut down its service from 5x weekly to 3x weekly this winter.
Why do you enjoy making up things so much? TAP never planned to fly to Miami 5x weekly during the winter. The winter is the slow period for Miami-Iberia traffic and TAP always, from the day the flight was announced, had always planned a reduced schedule for MIALIS during the winter, just like it reduces EWRLIS. MIALIS is back to 5w next summer in time for peak travel.
I'm done with this thread. Best of luck figuring out that imaginary list of "all the flights" that keep getting discontinued.
CODCAIAH From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 172 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3658 times:
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 12):
I'm done with this thread. Best of luck figuring out that imaginary list of "all the flights" that keep getting discontinued.
It is so bizarre how you never fail to get incredibly defensive about anything having to do with MIA. It's total A.net entertainment for me. Whenever there's a thread about MIA, I can always count on reading one of your snarky, condescending, and often-hysterical posts.
Anyway, your point about the collapsing European economy makes sense. Sometimes your good points get lost in your condescension.
indiansbucs From Costa Rica, joined May 2007, 151 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3345 times:
Quoting aer (Reply 14): wonder though, why doesn't UX switch to ATL, that way they could code share with DL there? MIA is a OW stronghold.
Because they would compete with DL directly... which isnt what they are looking for. MIA is still not a closed market, and DL will definitively help to open it up a little bit more.
Byrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2152 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2153 times:
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 5): now word that Meridiana is coming to MIA next year.
Where did you hear that, and do you have a link? I'd like to see IG eventually start a codeshare with AA if the route is successful.
Quoting theobcman (Reply 16): Meridiana to MIA ? With what equipment ?
IG has a fleet of three A330's they received when they bought EuroFly. With the recent merger between IG and Air Italy, they have gained two 763's. I suspect they will have to lease a few more widebodies to add MIA however.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
flymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 6323 posts, RR: 6 Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2031 times:
Quoting CODCAIAH (Reply 13): It is so bizarre how you never fail to get incredibly defensive about anything having to do with MIA. It's total A.net entertainment for me. Whenever there's a thread about MIA, I can always count on reading one of your snarky, condescending, and often-hysterical posts.
Anyway, your point about the collapsing European economy makes sense. Sometimes your good points get lost in your condescension.
Read more of the threads "miaintl" starts and the comments he makes. Than you will see..
Quoting aer (Reply 14): I wonder though, why doesn't UX switch to ATL, that way they could code share with DL there? MIA is a OW stronghold.
ATL-MAD market is not exactly a big one, and there is probably very low tourist traffic between the two cities, especially originating in MAD where UX would get the bulk of its passengers. They could not compete with DL nor would they want to.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
OB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2974 posts, RR: 8 Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1588 times:
Quoting CODCAIAH (Reply 12): It is so bizarre how you never fail to get incredibly defensive about anything having to do with MIA. It's total A.net entertainment for me. Whenever there's a thread about MIA, I can always count on reading one of your snarky, condescending, and often-hysterical posts.
In this case, it's because user miaintl often gets hysterical himself over the perceived imminent failure of MIA as an airport. He starts a thread like this every month. Come November, I wouldn't be surprised to see an "AA cutting MIA hub" thread.
Could DL try the route themselves as part of their focus city down here?
TYCOON From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 335 posts, RR: 4 Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1403 times:
I'd say it is due to little added value for UX to serve the MIA market when Iberia and AA cover the Spain-Miami market so well and UX's main European Skyteam partners (KL, AZ and AF) all offer direct flights from their hubs to MIA so no need for feeder traffic through MAD.
A softening on the European economy, and particularly the Spanish one, could be a further explanation... But people are still flying in Europe and in many European countries, the economies are far from "on the verge of collapse"... Now MIA and Florida on the other hand, now that is an economy that's in deep s***.
santos From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 711 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1369 times:
This update taken from another website! "Madrid – Miami Planned 4 weekly service in W11, originally an increase from W10′s 3 weekly, is cancelled. Instead service operates 2 weekly with Boeing 767, overall reduction compared to W10. Service cancelled from 09JAN12
30OCT11 – 18DEC11 Day 57
23DEC11 – 08JAN12 Day 157
eff 09JAN12 until further notice CANCELLED"
r2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2274 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 1330 times:
Quoting TYCOON (Reply 19): I'd say it is due to little added value for UX to serve the MIA market when Iberia and AA cover the Spain-Miami market so well and UX's main European Skyteam partners (KL, AZ and AF) all offer direct flights from their hubs to MIA so no need for feeder traffic through MAD.
Agree, and this is clearly the main reason. Once IB & AA started cooperating on this market, and IB adding BCN-MIA on top, taking away a lot of BCN feed, UX had little new to offer. No use for UX to continue flying between two OW hubs, they should move elsewhere where money can be better made and/or linkups with Skyteam can be maximized.
flymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 6323 posts, RR: 6 Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 1240 times:
Quoting TYCOON (Reply 19): Now MIA and Florida on the other hand, now that is an economy that's in deep s***.
You think MIA's and South Florida's economy is in worse shape than Spain's?
Unemployment numbers are going down while Air Travel at MIA and FLL has been very strong and on the up through the whole entire economic mess.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
delta2ual From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 585 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1208 times:
I think, especially in this economy, it's all about alliances. We will see alliances, more and more, planning routes together and abandoning some routes that are completely dominated by one alliance. (Emphasis on the word "some").
From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
TYCOON From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 335 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1154 times:
It is a bit off topic so I won't dwell too much on it but I never said that MIA and So. Florida's economy is in worse OR better shape than Spain... depends on the measurement and the region! Florida's GDP is 40th in the US (out of 50) and home foreclosures continues (as of Aug 2011) to be the 2nd highest in the U.S. and within Florida foreclosures are higher in MIA/FLL area than most of the rest of the state....
But back to the subject, I do believe it is alliance driven reasons that lead one carrier to opt out of a market it cannot competitively maintain a presence.
SKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 843 posts, RR: 4 Reply 25, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 956 times:
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 4): But this time, with the mess going on in Europe, I seriously doubt UX will return.
I do also.
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 4): Poor equipment, little marketing and filled planes with low-yielding Spanish-based tourists. Not a good way to gain a stronghold in the market
If my memory serves me well, several months ago you told on this board that the UX services to MIA could be a success and they could compete against IB/AA on equal terms. For many reason I haven't always been so optimistic. Last year, during the low season UX sent the 767's 4 times per week and I remember well a November day where there was only 100 pax. And it was not the only one, 55-60% has many times been an average figure during the low-season. For the high season they have been using the A332 on daily basis, but again, yields must be under average and lower than the IB/AA.
If UX wants keeping at least one destionation served at the States, is going to need agreements with DL as the relationship UX-DL is virtually non-existent.
On the other hand, Air Europa is not in their best moment as they are not in profit and suffering some kind of tension with Unions, specially with the Pilots Union. According the lastest news about 40-60 pilots are going to be fired. The airline wants to file suit the Pilots because stopping the next strike and doing smaller the existing fleet cutting seven 737-800 and the only two remaining 767-300ER (from 43 airliners to just 36: http://www.preferente.com/transporte...os-7-de-sus-43-aviones-103162.html link in Spanish)
I hope better times will come for the second Spain-based carrier (UX is not the only one ...see IB lately) and the whole Spanish aviation/economy. Unfortunately there's uncertainty about the future. Unemployment rate + high oil prices don't help. We need less big, threatening brown clouds on the horizon. Don't believe Florida economy can be in a worse shape than the Spain's.
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