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UX Cutting MIA-MAD?  
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 979 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5452 times:

Was just looking online for flights and realized that UX is no longer offerring flights between MIA-MAD from March 2012. Does anyone know what killed this flight? Was it TP's new service and AA antitrust immunity?

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 729 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5225 times:

Quoting miaintl (Thread starter):
Does anyone know what killed this flight? Was it TP's new service and AA antitrust immunity?

The antitrust immunity certainly didn't help...



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 979 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5089 times:

Would not be surprised if TP had something to do with it. It just amazes me that so many of MIA's new services are being canceled. Hope KL and TP dont get cut.

User currently offlinejonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 672 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5029 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 3):

So many? What others have been canceled... And TP might have something to do with it.. Although it can't be too much of a factor.


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32177 posts, RR: 72
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5029 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 3):

Would not be surprised if TP had something to do with it. It just amazes me that so many of MIA's new services are being canceled. Hope KL and TP dont get cut.


Seriously? Two flights have been cancelled out of so many new services. MIA is the fastest growing airport in the United States. And it hasn't even been officially cancelled yet. While I do expect the flight to be cancelled permanently, Air Europa has told MIA officials it tentatively plans a June 2011 return, when a DL codeshare will also be in place. It's very similar to two years ago when Air Europa also cancelled for three months. But this time, with the mess going on in Europe, I seriously doubt UX will return.

Poor equipment, little marketing and filled planes with low-yielding Spanish-based tourists. Not a good way to gain a stronghold in the market, but I am surprised UX low cost structure apparently didn't help.

TAP and especially KLM are doing very well. Air Berlin's new Berlin flights are doing great and MUC might be added this coming year; IB is doing great to BCN; Transaero is doing decent to DME; Corsair keeps adding frequencies to Orly; now word that Meridiana is coming to MIA next year.

We might very well see downward adjustments next year, but, in case you haven't noticed (maybe you haven't, since you haven't noticed so many of MIA's new services are not being cancelled), the entire European economy is on the verge of collapse.

[Edited 2011-10-24 19:39:50]


a.
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7006 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4996 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 3):
It just amazes me that so many of MIA's new services are being canceled. Hope KL and TP dont get cut.


Would love to see a list of all these cancellations...  



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8606 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4973 times:
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Quoting miaintl (Reply 3):
Would not be surprised if TP had something to do with it. It just amazes me that so many of MIA's new services are being canceled. Hope KL and TP dont get cut.

FYI, TP plans on increasing frequency on the LIS-MIA route to 5x weekly next year. KL plans on increasing frequency on the AMS-MIA route to 5x weekly next year.


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32177 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4937 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 7):
FYI, TP plans on increasing frequency on the LIS-MIA route to 5x weekly next year. KL plans on increasing frequency on the AMS-MIA route to 5x weekly next year.

Impossible - the routes are being cancelled, remember?



a.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8606 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4849 times:
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Quoting mah4546 (Reply 8):
Impossible - the routes are being cancelled, remember?

Plus next year, MIA gets the new B772 service operated by BA from LHR and AB switches TXL-MIA to BER-MIA.


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32177 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4813 times:

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 9):
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 8):
Impossible - the routes are being cancelled, remember?

Plus next year, MIA gets the new B772 service operated by BA from LHR and AB switches TXL-MIA to BER-MIA.

Also adding a Saturday MIADUS, so two AB flights on Saturdays.



a.
User currently offlinemiaintl From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 979 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4713 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 10):

Whats the guarantee that TP and KL are not also filled with low-yielding tourist passengers. Remember that TP cut down its service from 5x weekly to 3x weekly this winter.


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32177 posts, RR: 72
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4694 times:

Quoting miaintl (Reply 11):
. Remember that TP cut down its service from 5x weekly to 3x weekly this winter.


Why do you enjoy making up things so much? TAP never planned to fly to Miami 5x weekly during the winter. The winter is the slow period for Miami-Iberia traffic and TAP always, from the day the flight was announced, had always planned a reduced schedule for MIALIS during the winter, just like it reduces EWRLIS. MIALIS is back to 5w next summer in time for peak travel.

I'm done with this thread. Best of luck figuring out that imaginary list of "all the flights" that keep getting discontinued.

[Edited 2011-10-24 21:21:14]


a.
User currently offlineCODCAIAH From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4292 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 12):

I'm done with this thread. Best of luck figuring out that imaginary list of "all the flights" that keep getting discontinued.

It is so bizarre how you never fail to get incredibly defensive about anything having to do with MIA. It's total A.net entertainment for me. Whenever there's a thread about MIA, I can always count on reading one of your snarky, condescending, and often-hysterical posts.

Anyway, your point about the collapsing European economy makes sense. Sometimes your good points get lost in your condescension.


User currently offlineaer From Guatemala, joined Mar 2004, 1044 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4143 times:

I wonder though, why doesn't UX switch to ATL, that way they could code share with DL there? MIA is a OW stronghold.


nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
User currently offlineindiansbucs From Costa Rica, joined May 2007, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 3979 times:

Quoting aer (Reply 14):
wonder though, why doesn't UX switch to ATL, that way they could code share with DL there? MIA is a OW stronghold.

Because they would compete with DL directly... which isnt what they are looking for. MIA is still not a closed market, and DL will definitively help to open it up a little bit more.


User currently offlinetheobcman From UK - England, joined Nov 2010, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3014 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 5):

now word that Meridiana is coming to MIA next year.

Meridiana to MIA ? With what equipment ?


User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2311 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2787 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 5):
now word that Meridiana is coming to MIA next year.

Where did you hear that, and do you have a link? I'd like to see IG eventually start a codeshare with AA if the route is successful.

Quoting theobcman (Reply 16):
Meridiana to MIA ? With what equipment ?

IG has a fleet of three A330's they received when they bought EuroFly. With the recent merger between IG and Air Italy, they have gained two 763's. I suspect they will have to lease a few more widebodies to add MIA however.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7006 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2665 times:

Quoting CODCAIAH (Reply 13):
It is so bizarre how you never fail to get incredibly defensive about anything having to do with MIA. It's total A.net entertainment for me. Whenever there's a thread about MIA, I can always count on reading one of your snarky, condescending, and often-hysterical posts.

Anyway, your point about the collapsing European economy makes sense. Sometimes your good points get lost in your condescension.



Read more of the threads "miaintl" starts and the comments he makes. Than you will see..

Quoting aer (Reply 14):
I wonder though, why doesn't UX switch to ATL, that way they could code share with DL there? MIA is a OW stronghold.


ATL-MAD market is not exactly a big one, and there is probably very low tourist traffic between the two cities, especially originating in MAD where UX would get the bulk of its passengers. They could not compete with DL nor would they want to.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3236 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2222 times:

Quoting CODCAIAH (Reply 12):
It is so bizarre how you never fail to get incredibly defensive about anything having to do with MIA. It's total A.net entertainment for me. Whenever there's a thread about MIA, I can always count on reading one of your snarky, condescending, and often-hysterical posts.

In this case, it's because user miaintl often gets hysterical himself over the perceived imminent failure of MIA as an airport. He starts a thread like this every month. Come November, I wouldn't be surprised to see an "AA cutting MIA hub" thread.

Could DL try the route themselves as part of their focus city down here?


User currently offlineTYCOON From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 379 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2037 times:

I'd say it is due to little added value for UX to serve the MIA market when Iberia and AA cover the Spain-Miami market so well and UX's main European Skyteam partners (KL, AZ and AF) all offer direct flights from their hubs to MIA so no need for feeder traffic through MAD.
A softening on the European economy, and particularly the Spanish one, could be a further explanation... But people are still flying in Europe and in many European countries, the economies are far from "on the verge of collapse"... Now MIA and Florida on the other hand, now that is an economy that's in deep s***.


User currently offlinesantos From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 738 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2003 times:

This update taken from another website! "Madrid – Miami Planned 4 weekly service in W11, originally an increase from W10′s 3 weekly, is cancelled. Instead service operates 2 weekly with Boeing 767, overall reduction compared to W10. Service cancelled from 09JAN12
30OCT11 – 18DEC11 Day 57
23DEC11 – 08JAN12 Day 157
eff 09JAN12 until further notice CANCELLED"


User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2497 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1964 times:

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 19):
I'd say it is due to little added value for UX to serve the MIA market when Iberia and AA cover the Spain-Miami market so well and UX's main European Skyteam partners (KL, AZ and AF) all offer direct flights from their hubs to MIA so no need for feeder traffic through MAD.

Agree, and this is clearly the main reason. Once IB & AA started cooperating on this market, and IB adding BCN-MIA on top, taking away a lot of BCN feed, UX had little new to offer. No use for UX to continue flying between two OW hubs, they should move elsewhere where money can be better made and/or linkups with Skyteam can be maximized.


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7006 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1874 times:

Quoting TYCOON (Reply 19):
Now MIA and Florida on the other hand, now that is an economy that's in deep s***.

You think MIA's and South Florida's economy is in worse shape than Spain's?

Unemployment numbers are going down while Air Travel at MIA and FLL has been very strong and on the up through the whole entire economic mess.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinedelta2ual From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 606 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1842 times:

I think, especially in this economy, it's all about alliances. We will see alliances, more and more, planning routes together and abandoning some routes that are completely dominated by one alliance. (Emphasis on the word "some").


From the world's largest airline-to the world's largest airline. Delta2ual
User currently offlineTYCOON From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 379 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1788 times:

It is a bit off topic so I won't dwell too much on it but I never said that MIA and So. Florida's economy is in worse OR better shape than Spain... depends on the measurement and the region! Florida's GDP is 40th in the US (out of 50) and home foreclosures continues (as of Aug 2011) to be the 2nd highest in the U.S. and within Florida foreclosures are higher in MIA/FLL area than most of the rest of the state....
But back to the subject, I do believe it is alliance driven reasons that lead one carrier to opt out of a market it cannot competitively maintain a presence.


User currently offlineSKY1 From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 879 posts, RR: 4
Reply 25, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1590 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 4):
But this time, with the mess going on in Europe, I seriously doubt UX will return.

I do also.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 4):
Poor equipment, little marketing and filled planes with low-yielding Spanish-based tourists. Not a good way to gain a stronghold in the market

If my memory serves me well, several months ago you told on this board that the UX services to MIA could be a success and they could compete against IB/AA on equal terms. For many reason I haven't always been so optimistic. Last year, during the low season UX sent the 767's 4 times per week and I remember well a November day where there was only 100 pax. And it was not the only one, 55-60% has many times been an average figure during the low-season. For the high season they have been using the A332 on daily basis, but again, yields must be under average and lower than the IB/AA.

If UX wants keeping at least one destionation served at the States, is going to need agreements with DL as the relationship UX-DL is virtually non-existent.

On the other hand, Air Europa is not in their best moment as they are not in profit and suffering some kind of tension with Unions, specially with the Pilots Union. According the lastest news about 40-60 pilots are going to be fired. The airline wants to file suit the Pilots because stopping the next strike and doing smaller the existing fleet cutting seven 737-800 and the only two remaining 767-300ER (from 43 airliners to just 36: http://www.preferente.com/transporte...os-7-de-sus-43-aviones-103162.html link in Spanish)

I hope better times will come for the second Spain-based carrier (UX is not the only one ...see IB lately) and the whole Spanish aviation/economy. Unfortunately there's uncertainty about the future. Unemployment rate + high oil prices don't help. We need less big, threatening brown clouds on the horizon. Don't believe Florida economy can be in a worse shape than the Spain's.



Time flies! Enjoy life!
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