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Boston.com: UA/CO To B In 2013  
User currently offlinebos2laf From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 374 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 9745 times:

Well, for once the rumor mill (at least the one I was hearing) has proven correct:

http://www.boston.com/business/artic...change_terminals_at_logan_airport/

- FL moves to Terminal E early next week

- JetBlue taking over the AirTran gates and ticket counters. The FL counter is expected to be used for international checkin (not in the article, but per the rumors I'm hearing)

- US will take over NK ground handling, I'm told their counter will be right next to AC. I'm surprised NK went back to US for ground handling after they already lost the contract once before.

...and as expected,

- UA/CO will take over the AA Eagle gates (plus some from US?) and Massport will build a connector between B East and B West to be completed 2013

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1865 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9537 times:

Well, I think anetters were converging on one thing that turned out to be true - in order to make anything work, a lot of money will have to be spent fixing up Terminal B.

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11604 posts, RR: 61
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9417 times:

Quoting bos2laf (Thread starter):
- UA/CO will take over the AA Eagle gates (plus some from US?) and Massport will build a connector between B East and B West to be completed 2013

Does make sense. The former Eagle end of B-AA was definitely empty the last time I went through there, although it still seemed pretty small considering the combined United's operation at BOS.

How much expansion are they going to do in that area? Are they actually going to build B-AA out so that it fully connects (i.e., not just a connecting walkway, but actual buildings meeting) and can add a few more mainline-sized gates?


User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1043 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9362 times:

How many gates will UA have in Term B in 2013?

User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8362 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9144 times:

It's time for BOS to draw up another 20 year plan. Here's how I think it should look like:

1- Build a consolidated rental car garage plus an additional long term parking garage, in the area where today's rental car facilities are. This facility should also include office space.
2- Build a proper terminal B by cutting into the parking garage space.
3- Build the long talked about monorail loop linking all terminals with parking/rental car/subway. This monorail would remove a huge amount of road congestion from the terminal roadways and make Logan long term parking more attractive.
4- Demolish the current long term parking facility and relocate the North ramp hangars to make room for an expansion of terminal E. WN is going to get bigger and they will need more gates.


User currently offlinewarreng24 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 707 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9012 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 4):
Demolish the current long term parking facility and relocate the North ramp hangars to make room for an expansion of terminal E. WN is going to get bigger and they will need more gates.

Not going to happen.

Massport just built a new 2 story long-term parking garage in the same location as the previous long-term parking lot.


User currently offlinerob2507 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8932 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 4):
1- Build a consolidated rental car garage plus an additional long term parking garage, in the area where today's rental car facilities are. This facility should also include office space.

Dumb question--did you know that this project started a few months ago? The current rental lots plus the taxi and limo pools along with one of the catering buildings will all be transformed into a conrac facility. Don't recall the completion date right now, but one of the benefits will be removing all the individual company buses in favor of 10 or so Massport buses to shuttle passengers between the garage and terminals (hence no need for a monorail, bummer! I like the one at DFW).


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8935 times:

UA must have got a major incentive. Leaving C, they are losing their brand new baggage facility and newly rennovated RCC.

What will happen to CO's gates in A?



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8822 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 7):

What will happen to CO's gates in A?

Likely remain empty or be the gates that any new airline into Boston would have to use, as B, C and E will all be filled up.


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8784 times:

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 8):

Knowing the way things are at Logan, somehow I doubt these gates will remain empty.  



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8362 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8712 times:

Quoting warreng24 (Reply 5):
Massport just built a new 2 story long-term parking garage in the same location as the previous long-term parking lot.

So? It's a parking garage not a fancy building, and a small one at that. I'm talking 10-20 years down the road. That parking garage will have more than paid for itself by then. More importantly, it's really incovenient for the price that they charge. It can easily take you 30 minutes from the car to your terminal. That is why the central parking garage is always full. It's because there's little incentive to park at the long term garage.

Quoting rob2507 (Reply 6):
Dumb question--did you know that this project started a few months ago?

No I did not know that. Good to see that they are finally moving ahead with that project. It's about time.
However, the buses are the bigger problem, not the rental car limos. They are much bigger and less maneuverable and jam up all the traffic, especially in the tight space that are terminals B and C. I don't see how replacing limos with larger buses is an improvement. I too love the monorail at DFW and I think it would add a lot of value to Logan. Hauling luggage in and out of the shuttle buses is a royal pain and only contribute even more for the congestion by slowing down significantly the time it takes people to get on and off the buses.


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6762 posts, RR: 32
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8497 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 10):
However, the buses are the bigger problem, not the rental car limos. They are much bigger and less maneuverable and jam up all the traffic, especially in the tight space that are terminals B and C. I don't see how replacing limos with larger buses is an improvement.

The rental car buses (most of them are buses, not limos) are a huge problem because they are pretty much constantly passing through the terminal roadways. At B & C, the Massport shuttles and Silver Lie are often stuck behind five or six different rental car shuttles all picking up and dropping off passengers -- some in the middle of the roadway.

Quoting rob2507 (Reply 6):
Dumb question--did you know that this project started a few months ago? The current rental lots plus the taxi and limo pools along with one of the catering buildings will all be transformed into a conrac facility. Don't recall the completion date right now, but one of the benefits will be removing all the individual company buses in favor of 10 or so Massport buses to shuttle passengers between the garage and terminals

That sort of facility really should have incorporated the long-term parking as well, rather than putting it in the crazy location they chose. And don't get me started on the boneheaded location for the MBTA Airport station.

Quoting commavia (Reply 2):
How much expansion are they going to do in that area? Are they actually going to build B-AA out so that it fully connects (i.e., not just a connecting walkway, but actual buildings meeting) and can add a few more mainline-sized gates?

I'm not sure building a full connector between the two sides would result in additional gates, since some of the Eagle gates (B22-24) currently fit between the two sides of Terminal B. Maybe there's enough room for one more gate, but I doubt it.

Quoting bos2laf (Thread starter):
- US will take over NK ground handling, I'm told their counter will be right next to AC. I'm surprised NK went back to US for ground handling after they already lost the contract once before.

NK might not have had any other options at a price they were willing to pay. AA isn't going to hold on to expensive real estate they no longer need for the benefit of a competitor to ORD & FLL/MIA.

Quoting bos2laf (Thread starter):
- UA/CO will take over the AA Eagle gates (plus some from US?) and Massport will build a connector between B East and B West to be completed 2013

Two years is going to be a long time to keep that split operation at BOS.


User currently offlinebagoldex From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8380 times:

The Globe article states a $40 million expansion is in order.

User currently offlineicelandair75w From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8327 times:

Possible that CO/UA might be using Terminal C for the time being, considering jetBlue just got the 3 old Airtran gates back. I do know for a fact that B6 is giving C11 back to UA and that C14 might follow, but thats not confirmed.

User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6762 posts, RR: 32
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8322 times:

Quoting bagoldex (Reply 12):
The Globe article states a $40 million expansion is in order.

OK, so $40 million at Massport construction costs gets you a plywood corridor with plexiglass windows?   


User currently offlinebagoldex From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8283 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 14):
OK, so $40 million at Massport construction costs gets you a plywood corridor with plexiglass windows?

Hopefully they'll at least spring for a couple space heaters.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8362 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8145 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 11):
The rental car buses (most of them are buses, not limos) are a huge problem because they are pretty much constantly passing through the terminal roadways.

Fair point but you're still just changing the color of the bus   They're replacing buses with other buses. Maybe slightly fewer other buses but they'll still be there. And fewer buses just means they'll stop for longer periods of time to allow everyone to get on and off with their luggage.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 11):
That sort of facility really should have incorporated the long-term parking as well,

My point exactly. The current long term parking garage was a huge waste of money. They shoudl have started this consolidated rental car center many years ago and incorporated the long term parking into it. As it is, this rental car facility will only have 4 stories which basically indicates that there'll be no additional parking there. Parking is a huge source of revenue for BOS and is in huge demand.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 11):
I'm not sure building a full connector between the two sides would result in additional gates

I don't see it either. My suggestion to build a proper terminal between the 2 sides of B is simply because the check-in area on the AA side is utterly outdated and cramped but it wouldn't necessarily add any gates. Maybe Massport is expecting all the majors in B to continue to drop flights.

Sadly there's only 1 terminal at BOS with room for expansion and that's terminal E. Sadly because it is the least ustilized terminal since there is no morning international rush. I wonder how long until WN starts asking for more gates.


User currently offlineORDBOSEWR From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8069 times:

from the article:
"Massachusetts Port Authority officials plan to incorporate this space into a more than $40 million expansion to accommodate a larger United Airlines"

I love that they are painting this as FACT, but the word PLAN means more than anything. That tells me that Massport does not have the agreement in place with UA to state this as fact. It is what many have said, it is what Massport wants but I would expect them to be using more definitive words than PLAN.


User currently offlinelows From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1153 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7994 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 16):
this rental car facility will only have 4 stories

My dad, who works in the transit industry, has done a lot of work with parking garages that are fully expandable. Literally, you just place another precast concrete deck onto the top and make a few other modifications and it is complete. Is that possible here?


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6762 posts, RR: 32
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7607 times:

Quoting bagoldex (Reply 15):
Hopefully they'll at least spring for a couple space heaters.

Well then the cost would go up to $50 million since the contract for the space heaters would go to some state senator's brother or cousin.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 16):
They're replacing buses with other buses. Maybe slightly fewer other buses but they'll still be there. And fewer buses just means they'll stop for longer periods of time to allow everyone to get on and off with their luggage.

True, but probably one bus at a time at the curbside instead of three plus two more standing in the next lane over because there's no room at the curbside   

Quoting airbazar (Reply 16):
Sadly there's only 1 terminal at BOS with room for expansion and that's terminal E. Sadly because it is the least ustilized terminal since there is no morning international rush. I wonder how long until WN starts asking for more gates.

IMO the best long-term solution would be to expand Terminal E by three to six dual-use domestic/international gates and then have AA or the merged UA swap with WN. WN probably won't need access to international gates, and the carrier swapping with them would benefit from single-terminal connections to alliance partners. If AA maintains its LHR flights, the need to tow arrivals to B would also be obviated.


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5235 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7396 times:

It seems to me that AA is basically cutting back to the size that it was, before AMR bought Business Express and moved its operation over from C. Before that, wasn't the Eagle operation basically just the flights to LGA, JFK, and DCA?

Is BOS really going to be Eagle free? It's hard to imagine an airport that large with no Eagle flights, considering the number of other large cities on the AA route system that have a significant Eagle operation.


User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7290 times:

I'm glad that Massport is doing this, but this is going to be interesting if the rumored B6/AA merger happens, as this will make BOS a hub and 21 gates may be a little small for that.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 16):
Sadly there's only 1 terminal at BOS with room for expansion and that's terminal E. Sadly because it is the least ustilized terminal since there is no morning international rush. I wonder how long until WN starts asking for more gates.

I wonder if any satellite terminals can be built anywhere? That could save some space at Terminal E.



2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlinecloudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6842 times:

I get the feeling that what the globe published was as much based on rumors as on facts. But, a few comments none the less.

Boston has Long Term parking, but no one uses it. It's just to much hassle - navigating Logan is a nightmare, particularly with buses. The roadway designs really made a huge mess of things. Consolidated rental car busses are a nice idea, but in the end give how poorly the airport runs its busses now there is little reason to expect they will do anything but annoy passengers and the rental car companies themselves.

Short term parking at Logan is a nightmare. No one is going to stand for loosing another garage - there are still people who grumble about loosing terminal A parking, and that was gone before many on this board were born! In the end the taxpayers foot the Massport bill, so don't expect much no matter how much Massport or the fed wants it gone.

I think they could squeeze a few more satellite gates over at the end of the south GS area, but those would be commuter spaces only. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if they were to try and remote most of the commuter operations or UA/Co and leave the regular gates for the big jets.

While they talk about the connection between the two sides of B, I don't see it happening - what they gain by convenience is lost in the loss of parking stands for planes. It cant go over the roadway because trucks need to use that route. And security reasons would prevent taking any garage space for it. More likely would be to simply uses busses between terminals - that would solve most of the issues quickly and cheaply.

I don't see growth continuing for long. The Boston economy just isn't growing fast enough to handle it. and most people who live here see that. Large expansion projects just don't get enough support. People would rather see that money spent on better connections to Providence, Manchester, and Portland.



"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11604 posts, RR: 61
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6791 times:

Quoting ckfred (Reply 20):
It seems to me that AA is basically cutting back to the size that it was, before AMR bought Business Express and moved its operation over from C. Before that, wasn't the Eagle operation basically just the flights to LGA, JFK, and DCA?

Not even.

In 1999, before the Business Express acquisition, was completed, the extent of Eagle's operation at BOS consisted of SAABs and ATRs to JFK. The flights to DCA, when they later started, were originally flown with Fokker 100s, not Eagle, and LGA didn't come along until years later.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 20):
Is BOS really going to be Eagle free? It's hard to imagine an airport that large with no Eagle flights

It's really not needed anymore. Beyond RDU, which AA has now dropped, YYZ, and JFK, which has now transitioned to mainline, where else would Eagle fly from BOS? Most of the smaller regional markets in the northeast are simply too short of segments to ever profitably support RJs - for Eagle or any other airline, and anything a bit longer (and thus also more fuel-intense) are largely now served by lower-cost JetBlue.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 20):
considering the number of other large cities on the AA route system that have a significant Eagle operation.

Which cities? Eagle is really only big now in the hubs, besides the spoke cities that are served by Eagle with flights to DFW, ORD, etc.


User currently offlinejcarv From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 364 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6571 times:

Quoting bos2laf (Thread starter):

This isn't entirely accurate. Spirit is moving to Terminal B-West and ticket counter is correct. However, US Airways Express/Piedmont Airlines is handling below wing and Servisair is handling above wing. Both don't seem like good options but I'm sure fairly inexpensive. Also said to be using gate B14.


25 Blueman87 : Does DL get All of A back sence Conti moving out
26 jcarv : I wouldn't say authomatically. They could lease the gates but their operation doesn't warrant more gates at this time.
27 bos2laf : Not going to happen. B6 just spent all the money to install the new podiums at gate 11. I have heard of no plans to give gates back to UA. I did over
28 ckfred : When I said large cities, I meant in terms of population and not AA operations. Out of ORD, Eagle flies to the likes of MSP, DTW, ATL, CLT, PHL, and
29 Post contains links and images airbazar : DL has far more international routes than AA and I suspect AA will eventually drop its LHR route in favor of BA. Terminal E will need more multi-use
30 ScottB : Delta really couldn't fit into E with all the international carriers as well, though, even if E were to be expanded. It's certainly possible, but the
31 bobnwa : Not a single penny of taxpayer money has ever gone to Massport
32 cloudboy : I am so not going to get into that discussion, other than to say that is a very subjective claim with a lot of dependencies upon how one looks define
33 airbazar : I live 40 miles north of Boston (not in Boston), and I work in the technology sector. I don't know a single person in the technology sector that is o
34 icelandair75w : Well believe it.. United already informed that Sun Country will be going back to C11 which is a UA handled flight...
35 phatfarmlines : I'm going to echo the sentiments others have regarding the economy of Boston. Along with San Francisco, Dallas, & Houston, Boston is definitely a
36 tu154 : UA holds the lease on these gates. Just because B6 installs a new podium does not mean UA can take them back. B6 is leasing these gates from UAL.....
37 bobnwa : Not sure if I understand your answer. Are you still saying that taxpayer dollars go to Massport? If so, I still disagree, since Massport expenses are
38 cloudboy : Massport essentially levies tax. While they don't just levy a general tax on everyone in an area, they do charge fees to people and companies that do
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