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Ground Use Of Cellphones While Taxiing  
User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 761 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9311 times:
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Last weekend I flew on a Southwest flight from DAL-AUS. The flight attendants made the usual announcements. While we were taxiing for takeoff, the flight attendant made an announcement for persons to make sure their cellphones were in the off position as they detected one cellphone in use. My question is, How did they know a cellphone was in use as they were sitting down in their jumpseats?

59 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMGASJO From Nicaragua, joined Feb 2005, 463 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9289 times:

Tricky line to make you double check! "Did I turn it off?!"
There is no such thing a cell phone detector on board



C208B
User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6265 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9277 times:

Quoting freakyrat (Thread starter):
How did they know a cellphone was in use as they were sitting down in their jumpseats?

Easy answer - they didn't. Just playing mind games.


User currently offlinepackcheer From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9265 times:

They saw someone using it from their seat and reminded everyone.


Things that fly, Girls and Planes...
User currently offlineDFWHeavy From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9254 times:

Cell phone signals and the like don't do one thing to the airplane. I wish they would just quit lying. We all knew that if it were of any concern, they wouldn't even let them past security... I mean come on, you can't even bring a drink on from pre-security..


Christopher W Slovacek
User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1333 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9153 times:

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 4):
Cell phone signals and the like don't do one thing to the airplane. I wish they would just quit lying. We all knew that if it were of any concern, they wouldn't even let them past security... I mean come on, you can't even bring a drink on from pre-security..

Do a search.

Here is a first hand report of cell phone use interfering with aircraft: For God's Sake, Switch Off Your Damn Cell Phones.. (by Pilotaydin Jan 11 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Here is a second hand report (well 2 actually): WN Pax Arrested - Refused To Hang Up (by Utapao May 12 2008 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlinefreakyrat From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 761 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9130 times:
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I was sitting in a window seat in front of there wing and didn't see anyone using a phone from where I sat. Apparently they did know that someone had a phone on as I think they received a call from the cockpit on their phone prior to making the announcement.

User currently offlinebonusonus From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 403 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 9024 times:

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 4):
Cell phone signals and the like don't do one thing to the airplane. I wish they would just quit lying. We all knew that if it were of any concern, they wouldn't even let them past security... I mean come on, you can't even bring a drink on from pre-security..

You are definitely right about this one. If cell phones (or portable electronics for that matter) posed any danger to an aircraft they would have to be off and in checked luggage. Maybe for cell phones they could be confiscated at the gate and returned afterward.

However, the FAA doesn't allow cell phone use on airplanes for two main reasons (even though they say the reason is safety, this is more of a tangential explanation). The first, and I believe the most important one is that cell phones do work on airliners, but they mess up the ground-based cell networks. With each tower having to "hand-off" the signal to another one every 10-15 seconds, it really overloads the networks. Secondly, and here is where safety is factored in, I believe the FAA and the airlines are trying to prevent conflicts in flight stemming from people talking disruptively on cell phones.


User currently offlinetozairport From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 681 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8966 times:

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 4):
Cell phone signals and the like don't do one thing to the airplane. I wish they would just quit lying. We all knew that if it were of any concern, they wouldn't even let them past security... I mean come on, you can't even bring a drink on from pre-security..

Cell phones can cause communications interference, I have seen this in person. Of course, the phone was in the cockpit at the time and very close to the transmitter. There have been other instances where the phone has interfered with navigation signals. I wish you would stop talking and start listening. We aren't "lying". As far as other "non-transmitting" electronics go, they have no effect on aircraft systems. However, the prospect of hundreds of extra flying projectiles in the event of an accident require their stowage, FOR YOUR SAFETY. Your welcome.



Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8909 times:

It's a saftey issue in the event the flight crew needs to evacuate aircraft we need ALL the passangers to listen to the flight crews evacuation comands and not who ever is on the phone with you. It's all about saving lives. The last thing someone wants on a plane if the plane catches on fire the crew starts yelling at every one to evacuate to have some one on there celephone sitting there not paying attion and slowing up every one from getting off the plane quick as possible. enjoy wnfg 


my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6590 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8879 times:

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 4):
Cell phone signals and the like don't do one thing to the airplane. I wish they would just quit lying.

Lying? I'm sorry, I work with companies who want to put on cellular phone service onboard the aircraft whilst IN-FLIGHT!
These companies ARE concerned about cellphone interference. They know it is not a lie!
Non-cellular frequency emissions have caused problems with certain equipments (wifi on Honeywell Phase 3 Cockpit Display Units)...

The industry no longer works by putting a blanket ban, as the benefits of connectivity is now being recognized. BUT, that doesn't mean no one cares about interference.

Quoting MGASJO (Reply 1):
Tricky line to make you double check! "Did I turn it off?!"
There is no such thing a cell phone detector on board

Actually, you can use pico-cells, which act as low-power BTS... they can be programmed to see what phone is latching on to them... But, on the ground, it is useless, as the phones are more likely to latch on to ground based BTS... and a dedicated RF spectral scanner is errr.... overdoing it... However, hearing a cellphone buzz on one's radiocomms earphone is enough of a sign that there is a phone on board that's on...   

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7210 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8860 times:

I did have a strange experience a few years ago, that perhaps someone can explain.

I switched off my phone, (screen went blank) and put it in my pocket.

As we approached Malta, the phone switched back on, and started ringing.

When I got it out, it had a text message from Virgin which basicly said welcome to Malta.

Needless to say, I rapidly switched it off again.

How can this happen?.

Regarding useage in flight, IMO anyone reading Pilotaydin's thread has to be clear.

Either this is proof cell phones do affect avionics or alternatively their is strong evidence suggesting that they do.

Either way, just switch it off. No call is that important.

Hopefully in the future interferance will not be an issue.


User currently offlineDFWHeavy From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8836 times:

If it caused significant issue, planes would be falling out of the sky. I, like many others, leave my phone on most flights the whole time. We know this is not the case.

I'm not saying it will never cause any type of interference...but it isn't a safety concern. Our big brother protector (the useless government) would put a big stop to phone being in the cabin of planes if it was a big deal.



Christopher W Slovacek
User currently offlinevhtje From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8729 times:
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Quoting bennett123 (Reply 11):
As we approached Malta, the phone switched back on, and started ringing.

When I got it out, it had a text message from Virgin which basicly said welcome to Malta.

Needless to say, I rapidly switched it off again.

How can this happen?.

Is it a BlackBerry? Mine does this a lot, it annoys me when I arrive at my destination and grab my phone to find that it is already switched on. It happened just this week flying from LHR to ORD - so that when I arrived in ORD the stupid thing was flat, because it had switched itself on then spent the last 8 hours over the Atlantic draining its battery looking for a signal.

I have two BlackBerrys and they both do this. I try to remember to turn off the wireless signal before powering down the phone but as I am usually concentrating simultaneously on 4,589 things during the boarding process, it is easy to forget to do it.


User currently offline26point2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 786 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8707 times:

Quoting ADent (Reply 5):
Here is a first hand report of cell phone use interfering with aircraft: For God's Sake, Switch Off Your Damn Cell Phones.. (by Pilotaydin Jan 11 2007 in Civil Aviation)

I don't believe this story. Not as it relates to cell phone interference anyway. Not a skeptic by nature but if this were true the industry would have heard about it and something would have been done. I'm in the aviation industry and I've never heard this story before.


User currently onlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2815 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8706 times:

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 12):
If it caused significant issue, planes would be falling out of the sky. I, like many others, leave my phone on most flights the whole time.

If you were sitting beside me, I'd grab it and stomp on it.

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 12):
I'm not saying it will never cause any type of interference...but it isn't a safety concern.

Engineers and aircraft safety specialists (see Mandala499 above) say it can be. What are your relevant qualifications?

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 12):
Our big brother protector (the useless government) would put a big stop to phone being in the cabin of planes if it was a big deal.

They already have a rule saying they must be off during flight. If people like you keep on breaking the rule, guess what - they may have to resort to banning phones in the cabin.



Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6590 posts, RR: 75
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8704 times:

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 12):
If it caused significant issue, planes would be falling out of the sky. I, like many others, leave my phone on most flights the whole time. We know this is not the case.

Hmmm... I think both you (the one who don't care about switching your phone off) and those who are totally anti-cellphones onboard, should read this: http://bit.ly/rsZh31

It is sad that both sides of the fence blow their arguments out of proportion. That blog piece should be a nice balanced piece which the "extremists" on both side would hate, or get bored by!

DFWHeavy, as a risk analyst, I hope you analyze your risk (both legal and safety) thoroughly before you decide to leave your cellphone on whilst flying next time...

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7210 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8650 times:

vhtje

No it was not a Blackberry.Just an old cheap mobile.

I recall that it did not have a cover, you could lock the keys, (which stopped outgoing calls) or power down which stopped incoming calls, (however the key pad was not locked).

I now have a mobile with a cover, and a Blackberry.


User currently offlinerdh3e From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1459 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8613 times:

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 16):
Hmmm... I think both you (the one who don't care about switching your phone off) and those who are totally anti-cellphones onboard, should read this: http://bit.ly/rsZh31

That article was pretty much worthless. It talks about altitudes etc which is all fine and dandy. But then it brings this gem.

"It was revealed then (early April 2011, a mere few days before I took that Emirates flight), that over 5.5 million different Emirates customers had used the AeroMobile onboard cellular service. Not one of their flights, had to go through an interference incident (well, not that we hear of anyways)"

You honestly think that 5.5M people ALL turned their phones off as instructed?

It also says:

"Sure, a lot of the electromagnetic interference from mobile phones or smart gadgets have been deemed "unrepeatable in laboratory conditions hence unable to be confirmed or dismissed as dangerous", and that everyone has been siding on caution. But, with all these new development"

So it is stating a FACT that all experiments on the subject have stated that Cell phones have NO effect on the airplane, but then continues to say "well, it does".

I know it's not scientific by any means but MythBusters did do a show on this where they boosted a cell signal something like 10,000 times and were unable to effect the nav equipment on the plane they were testing.


User currently onlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2815 posts, RR: 27
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8531 times:

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 18):
over 5.5 million different Emirates customers had used the AeroMobile onboard cellular service.

You do realize that this is a service specifically engineered for onboard use, and not your ordinary cellphone?

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 18):
unable to be confirmed or dismissed as dangerous

does not mean

Quoting rdh3e (Reply 18):
Cell phones have NO effect on the airplane



Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4764 posts, RR: 43
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 8512 times:

I swear, it is like dealing with Two Year Olds.

The only reason these children don't want to shut their phones off, is because someone told them too. If airlines made announcements that they MUST leave their phones on, they would be secretly shutting them off, then bragging to their other pre-pubescent buddies about it!

When I walk into a hospital and see signs asking that shut my cell phone off, I do it. I don't run to the Internet looking for proof that possibly, maybe when the sun is in the right position ... it has no effect. I just do it. Who cares? I sure as hell don't.

When walking through Customs and Immigration .. same thing, signs indicating that cell phones should be off. Again, why argue, why bother? It's not like it has any real effect on my life, or the short amount of time that I can't (gasp) contact associates to transfer information that no one wants any way.

Maybe it's an age thing. All a part of growing up.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 2682 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8449 times:

Quoting DFWHeavy (Reply 4):
Cell phone signals and the like don't do one thing to the airplane. I wish they would just quit lying. We all knew that if it were of any concern, they wouldn't even let them past security... I mean come on, you can't even bring a drink on from pre-security..

Having taken a communications course (the one that analyzes signals and noise mind you), I've been meaning to speak with a professor and actually do some first hand research on this. I find it a bit...odd...that we have never had reports (or accidents) caused by loss of communications due to interference by cellphones. Even odder is having wi-fi enabled aircraft where wi-fi is permitted yet in non-wi-fi aircraft they ask that you keep it off (not that I'd have wi-fi on when I know there's no wi-fi).

About a year ago I flew on a transcon. I remember switching off my cellphone. I think about halfway into the flight I noticed that my pocket was glowing. My cellphone had turned on, but it had no service...I turned it off, only ton find when I landed that it was on again...nothing happened. So I have to question whether the claim is true or not.

There's a little keyword here, as said in nearly all safety demonstrations:
"...these devices MAY interfere with..." 'May' is a keyword.

[Edited 2011-10-27 12:16:48]


"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlinerdh3e From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 1459 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8440 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 19):
You do realize that this is a service specifically engineered for onboard use, and not your ordinary cellphone?

You're missing the point I was making. The article says that 5.5M people used that service. And that IF phones were left on near the ground they would disconnect from that system and reconnect at full strength to the regular cell network. Therefore, I said, "You honestly think that 5.5M people ALL turned their phones off as instructed?" I'm implying that there is an increased likelihood that there would be cellphones "On" while those planes are on descent whether due to forgetfulness or laziness.

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 19):
does not mean

The "confirm or deny" is just a CYA statement. The other part of that statement that you conveniently left out is that there is ZERO scientific evidence that cell phones have any affect on airliners.


User currently offlineAkiestar From Philippines, joined May 2009, 768 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8421 times:

Quoting longhauler (Reply 20):

When walking through Customs and Immigration .. same thing, signs indicating that cell phones should be off. Again, why argue, why bother? It's not like it has any real effect on my life, or the short amount of time that I can't (gasp) contact associates to transfer information that no one wants any way.

In fairness, I don't get why one should turn off their mobile phone while in the immigration queue. It's not like keeping a mobile phone on would pose a threat to an immigration officer, nor would cause undue interference.   

However, staying on-topic, it is also amusing how people don't turn off their mobile phones while taxiing, and how they still use their phones regardless. I remember there was a person beside me on a flight to SIN who was eagerly awaiting for some text message. I kept my mouth shut about it, but he didn't turn his phone off until before takeoff.

Sometimes though, airlines also take it a little too seriously. PR for example bans the operation of mobile phones even in flight mode. How can a device which does not emit cellular signals be harmful?   


User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1210 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8390 times:

Ever heard the "dadada dadada" on your phone? That's interference, and interference from mobile phones can have the same effect on aircraft radios. So if the crew say they know a phone is on, chances are the pilots were subjected to the tell-tale interference.

But I don't really understand how anybody can have any problems switching their phones off from the time the doors close until they open again. It really can't be any simpler, and trust me - you're really not that important your phone call can't wait those 5, 10 or 15 minutes it takes from landing until you reach a gate.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
25 Kaiarahi : Reminds me of that famous line: "When I was 20, I knew my father was stupid. I was really amazed how much he'd learned by the time I turned 40."
26 Post contains images mandala499 : I think you're the one missing the point. Why does Emirates ask passengers to still switch the phone off when below 10,000ft when they can use it in
27 Post contains images rdh3e : My phone goes off when the aircraft door closes. But that's not really the question. And in the case of an actual emergency, I'd bet good money that
28 Post contains images Akiestar : Tell that to those passengers on UA 93 who called their relatives using their mobile phones.
29 Flaps : Other than the fact that it is annoying as hell to everyone around you. Even more so if a few hundred people are all gabbing in line.
30 Akiestar : Telling them to not use their phones while in the immigration queue would have the same effect, right?
31 Kaiarahi : I was on a NZ flight from LAX about 18 months ago where the captain returned to the gate and off-loaded 2 expensively dressed 20-something women seat
32 robsaw : The regulations regarding electronics (capable of RF transmission/receiption) boil down to understanding the following technical difference: - demonst
33 Independence76 : Cell phones and other electronics pose no threat to commercial aircraft of any kind. However, it can easily be seen as a safety issue in the event of
34 CXfirst : Others must have had this happen to them. Sometimes (really depends on where my phone is) my radio speakers will take in some interference, which is q
35 catiii : Probably heard someone get a text message, or heard a phone ring. Happens all the time.
36 ghifty : If the safety video or f/a tells you to turn of the cell phone, turn the damn thing off. If not for safety, as a courtesy to the person asking. I was
37 b727fa : No, it's not about planes "falling out of the sky." It's about the potential for the signal (or search thereof) to interfere with the a/c. The only "p
38 aogdesk : I just love how *some* people can make up their mind by the sole criteria of whether airplanes have crashed due to one specific factor. @DFW Heavy: I
39 DiamondFlyer : That's totally false. You would be amazed at how often one can hear a cell phone effect the radio's in an aircraft. -DiamondFlyer
40 ghifty : This happens at my school's campus. We have ceiling-mounted projectors, and every time someone gets a text/mms there is this strange buzzing/clicking
41 tdscanuck : Fairly often, you can hear it over the communications system. I wish you would stop lying. Cell phone signals can interfere with aircraft communicati
42 jeb94 : Try this as an experiment. Set your cellphone close to a set of speakers, particularly computer speakers. You'll hear a buzzing clicking nose at regul
43 maxrockatansky : It doesnt cause any significant problem, its just power tripping by stewardesses., lots of people leave them on by mistake, its an exaggerated danger
44 N243NW : Whether or not the threat is real (and believe me, there definitely IS the possibility of interference...I've experienced it myself as a pilot, along
45 airtechy : Because it would be impossible to verify that every emitting electronic device that passengers might carry would not cause electronics interference, t
46 Elevated : Wow, so nice to have people in this world like you being at the top of the list of ignorance. Your blatant lack of knowledge is clearly demonstrated
47 GeorgiaAME : Please, don't give the gestapo any bright ideas that they haven't thought of already. As soon as our, how do I say this to get past our ever vigilant
48 tdscanuck : The most common is the "morse code" pulsing you hear on small amplified speakers from data transmission on certain cell phone technologies...it's the
49 ltbewr : To me the restictions are mainly are to assure a full measure of safety rather than possibly cause a potential problem that could cause an accident or
50 ozark1 : I am a flight attendant. I honestly do not feel that cellphone or electronic device usage interferes one iota with anything. It SOUNDS LIKE it would s
51 WildcatYXU : The funny part is, Longhauler, that your employer allows passengers to use cell phones while taxiing to the gate, once the aircraft turned out from t
52 Post contains images airtechy : I hear what you are saying, but all the examples....as yours....require the "device" to be held "next to" the.....in you case....speakers. That would
53 longhauler : That is right. Per the Transport Canada Exemption to CAR 602.08. (All Canadian carriers.) Not sure why that is "funny". It IS allowed during that tim
54 tdscanuck : I'm not sure how to put this any other way, but how you feel about it isn't really relevant. Cellphones *do* interfere with aircraft communications.
55 787atPAE : I got bored and read through the FARs. I normally read through FAR Part 25, but I did find the following samples/examples: Part 91, Paragraph 21 Part
56 tonystan : You may not like it but ITS THE LAW....And you are breaking the law by NOT switching it off! Grow up! Well said!
57 Flaps : THANK YOU!! I couldnt agree with you more.
58 SEA : My father is an OO CR7 captain and hears the GSM characteristic "dadada" sounds over his headset ALL the time. That has the potential to be a dangerou
59 jreuschl : I'm not sure what carrier it was, it was either WN of FL since those were my last nights, but they indicated that the electronic device in airplane mo
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