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Rumor - WestJet - Getting Smaller Planes  
User currently offlineKamloops From Canada, joined Nov 2010, 72 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 16939 times:

I have heard through the rumor mill that West Jet is looking at getting smaller aircrafts,

I have nothing to support this thought,

Any thoughts on what they may get (CRJ, B717, Dash 8),

89 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2655 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 16923 times:
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Maybe they'll pick up some 717s from WN once the merger is complete!
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4765 posts, RR: 43
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 16761 times:

If they decide to go for a smaller aircraft, my guess would be the CSeries.

Think of the political "coup" when advertising that THEY bought the Canadian plane.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24109 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 16662 times:

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 1):
Maybe they'll pick up some 717s from WN once the merger is complete
Quoting longhauler (Reply 2):
If they decide to go for a smaller aircraft, my guess would be the CSeries.

I think both those types are still too big. Even the smallest CSeries 100 has roughly the same seating capacity as WestJet's current 737-600s, as does the 717.

In my opinion they need something like the Q400 to permit them to serve smaller cities more effectively and with greater frequency. They currently fly 737s into some points with populations of 20,000 or 30,000. That's where AC has a big advantage with Jazz and their other regional affiliates which can serve those types of points much more efficiently and with higher frequency.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12444 posts, RR: 100
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 16650 times:
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Quoting longhauler (Reply 2):
If they decide to go for a smaller aircraft, my guess would be the CSeries.

Agreed. I bet the financing would be on very favorable terms as well as the political (and PR) coup you noted.

It would be a win-win. I would expect the CS300, to augment the 736s. Unless they flew the CS100 as a hundred seater, which just doesn't make sense to me (nor flying it with just over 100 seats with the 3rd F/A)...

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 1):
Maybe they'll pick up some 717s from WN once the merger is complete!

Not unless the price was *that* low. The higher guarantee cycle life of the PW1000G would be worth it for westjet alone.

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlinesxf24 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1250 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16448 times:

Not a rumor. There are serious discussions for Q400s. Expect to hear more soon.

User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12444 posts, RR: 100
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16352 times:
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Quoting sxf24 (Reply 5):
There are serious discussions for Q400s. Expect to hear more soon.

Awww... C-series would have been so much more exciting.  

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5832 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16344 times:
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I was going to hope that Westjet buys additional 736's.

User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1566 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 16329 times:
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The Q400 is also built in Canada so it would be a political coup as well.

User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1564 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16281 times:

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 8):
The Q400 is also built in Canada so it would be a political coup as well.

Less so given that there are Q400s operated in the AC family, as well (not to mention PD also operating them as competition in the east).


User currently offlinewhiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 763 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16221 times:

Quoting sxf24 (Reply 5):
Not a rumor. There are serious discussions for Q400s. Expect to hear more soon.

Clive has said publicly that Westjet guests won't fly props!

Is he going to eat crow???


User currently offlineYXXMIKE From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16117 times:

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 10):
Clive has said publicly that Westjet guests won't fly props!

Is he going to eat crow???

He's not at the helm anymore, right? I'd be curious as to which markets they are looking to service with a Q400? YTZ a possibility?? I would have expected a larger sized aircraft order instead of a smaller one to be honest, look at going transatlantic with their service and beat AC to the punch on the lower yielding markets (DUB/BCN/ATH etc). By beat them to the punch, I mean beat them with an already lower existing cost structure.


User currently offlinewhiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 763 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16085 times:

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 11):
He's not at the helm anymore, right?

Not at the helm but still sits on the board. If anyone believes he's not involved in the decision making at WS your in for a surprise!


User currently offlineYXXMIKE From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16084 times:

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 12):
Not at the helm but still sits on the board. If anyone believes he's not involved in the decision making at WS your in for a surprise!

I have always been under the impression that he's got quite the ego. Could be wrong but it certainly wouldn't surprise me if he's still pulling strings there.


User currently offlineykaops From Canada, joined Nov 2010, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 15886 times:

My guess is E170's or E175's... doing the Jetblue thing..

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13273 posts, RR: 62
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 15844 times:
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Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
In my opinion they need something like the Q400 to permit them to serve smaller cities more effectively and with greater frequency.

Lest we forget, Gregg Saretsky came from Alaska Air Group, a company that knows a thing or two about deploying Q400s to smaller cities and making it work well.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1721 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 15487 times:

This decision should have been made a long time ago.

Why should WestJet be going after Q400's? to serve what markets? Smaller size cities in Canada? Or to run flights out of YYZ to US cities?

My guess is that it will be either the Cseries or ERJ's which will give them more flexibility in serving US business markets or even leisure markets year-round


User currently offlineaamd11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1056 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 15459 times:

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 11):
YTZ a possibility??

No slots available at YTZ for WS. All 202 slots are currently held by PD (172) and AC (30).

Unless they figured out a way to gain access to a fleet of 26 Q400s and YTZ slots in one shot.  


User currently offlineC172Akula From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 996 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 15390 times:

It was probably about 5 years or so ago that Embraer stopped by the WS hangars in YYC with one of their aircraft. I could see the E-Jets or Q400's coming into the fold.

User currently offlineYXXMIKE From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 15329 times:

Would a C-Series be that much better version of the 600 that is capable of providing WS much better economics on those thinner routes? It would be nice (even though I'm not a WS fan) to see a WS order for the C Series and a few Q-400's.

User currently offlineC172Akula From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 996 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 15307 times:

Heck I'd like to see WS order something new so us YYC spotters get a bit more variety!

User currently offlinelows From Austria, joined Oct 2011, 1065 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 15254 times:

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 17):
No slots available at YTZ for WS. All 202 slots are currently held by PD (172) and AC (30).

Presumably, those 202 are daily?


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12444 posts, RR: 100
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 15223 times:
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Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 19):
Would a C-Series be that much better version of the 600 that is capable of providing WS much better economics on those thinner routes?

   73G seating for about 20% lower per trip costs than the 736.

Sadly, the Q400 makes sense. I'd love to see the C-series at Westjet... But after thinking about it, the Q400 seems more likely.

Lightsaber



I've posted how many times?!?
User currently offlineaamd11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1056 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 15210 times:

Quoting lows (Reply 21):
Presumably, those 202 are daily?

Yes, 202 daily rotations. So 101 daily departures from YTZ. AC is using all 30 slots right now to run 15x daily YTZ-YUL.

PD is still working on using the last 16 slots awarded - new service to YTS for next year and increased YSB have already been announced, and there'll surely be more to come.


User currently offlineC172Akula From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 996 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 15106 times:

What was the maximum sector distance that the Q400 performs equal to jets?

Just wondering what type of routes out of YYC could see the Q400 take the place of the 737's.


User currently offlineKamloops From Canada, joined Nov 2010, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 15556 times:

For

C172Akula


I would think most of BC, Sask, and maybe a venture into SEA from YYC for the Q400


User currently offlineiceberg210 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15036 times:

If I were West Jet seems to me that the C Series would be AWFULLY tempting. A replacement in the 100 for your 736's and a replacement in the 300 for your 73G's. You could have your fleet around one aircraft still but a more economical one (especially compared to the 600). I'm sure Bombardier would be willing to deal especially if you threw some Q400's into the mix...

Likely? Perhaps not, but seems like a pretty decent idea in my book...



Erik Berg (Foster's is over but never forgotten)
User currently offlineq120 From Canada, joined Aug 2008, 271 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 15499 times:

This makes no sense, considering Westjet wants to expand on longer routes.
I believe they want world domination by 2016... that still planned?



However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results
User currently offlineheathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 967 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 14929 times:

I guess this all depends on where they plan on deploying them. Even on smaller routes like YQU, the 737 seems to make sense, even cities like YLW and YXU. I'm surious as to if they would be looking at expanding in Canada (destinations like YXJ, YXC, YPE), or flying shorter routes to the U.S. (YYZ NYC, BOS, ORD, etc.)

I think this would be a great move for WS. I know they are following the same kind of business model as WN, but the U.S. has a much larger population and it works for them. All we have up here is Bob from YVR and Jim from YWG....   


User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 29, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 14773 times:

Quoting ykaops (Reply 14):
My guess is E170's or E175's...

Agreed....or perhaps the CR9/10.

I don't see the C-Series.....too close in capacity to the 73G, and still a paper plane.

The Q400 would be good for short haul low-capacity markets, but would not address the longer range low-capacity flights that WS also needs to compete on, eg. YYZ-YXE/YQR.

One idea, they could order a mix of E175 and E190's and have Embraer take as trade-ins the 736 fleet.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlinewhiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 763 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 14812 times:

Quoting q120 (Reply 27):
This makes no sense, considering Westjet wants to expand on longer routes.
I believe they want world domination by 2016... that still planned?

By getting smaller aircraft they can replace the B737 on routes like YEG, YMM, and YQU to enable some expansion.

I think world domination is still planned but maybe not as quick!   


User currently offlinerikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1578 posts, RR: 1
Reply 31, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 14642 times:

FINALLY.... Jr.Jet is launched! (OK, that is just MY pipedream.)

Long term it will be interesting to see how long the 736's stay. Is Westjet now the largest operator of the 736? Cseries is a purpose-built lighter aircraft, while the 736's economics aren't any better than the 73G's... with less seating (this is a known fact).

Westjet years ago had been in contact with many smaller airlines, inquiring about smaller centers. Whether or not that was to start a regional wing, I can't say. Personally, for YQL, it would be nice to have another alternative... although originally the idea was East-West through-flights with a stop in Lethbridge (retracing Trans-Canada Air Lines original route....).

Interesting to see where they will serve in Canada next, regardless of the type they decide to go with!



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 5927 posts, RR: 34
Reply 32, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 14626 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 29):
I don't see the C-Series.....too close in capacity to the 73G, and still a paper plane.

And not available for 3-4 years at the earliest... and, currently, at a low delivery rate.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineheathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 967 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14518 times:

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 30):
By getting smaller aircraft they can replace the B737 on routes like YEG, YMM, and YQU to enable some expansion.

I haven't been a frequent flyer on the YQU or YMM routes for about a year, but I used to fly them all the time and loads were good on 737's. Even 73W's on the afternoon flight to YQU. Oil traffic can be very loyal. I'd be surprised to see these routes shift to a smaller aircraft unless they plan on increasing frequency in favour of capacity.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15503 posts, RR: 26
Reply 34, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14283 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 22):
I'd love to see the C-series at Westjet... But after thinking about it, the Q400 seems more likely.

The problem with the CSeries is that it is too big. Sure the CS100 would make a nice replacement for the 737-600s, but that's 13 airframes so the reduced costs would probably be fairly close to canceling out. If WestJet had 30 or 40 of them it might be different, but as it is the CSeries would really need a smaller model than the CS100 to make much sense for them.

The CS300 could do okay filling in for the 737-700s, but lacks the range to perform some of the longest flights.

Overall, I think that the Q400 makes sense for them more than the CSeries, just because of how the fleet and CSeries family is arranged.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4618 posts, RR: 5
Reply 35, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14051 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 34):

Overall, I think that the Q400 makes sense for them more than the CSeries, just because of how the fleet and CSeries family is arranged.

Would they look at the ATR72-600 also? NZ went with them over the Q400 . No idea how they stack up against each other. Some posters on the NZL thread called the Q400 a gas guzzler although no evidence was produced in support of the statement.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15503 posts, RR: 26
Reply 36, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 14049 times:

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 35):
Some posters on the NZL thread called the Q400 a gas guzzler although no evidence was produced in support of the statement.

I've heard the same, but the Q400 will cruise some 80 knots faster than the ATR but is more expensive as well. It would probably warrant consideration, but either plane would work well for them.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineWJV04 From Canada, joined Jun 2001, 582 posts, RR: 4
Reply 37, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12999 times:

What is being discussed here is really about a 1% chance of actually coming to fruition. Internally at WestJet there is little to no discussion of this. The 600s fill the smaller market niches quite nicely as always, and still allow for large operational flexablity being common with the rest of the fleet. If WestJet does add a second type, I would be looking bigger then the 737, not smaller.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24109 posts, RR: 23
Reply 38, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12760 times:

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 23):
Quoting lows (Reply 21):
Presumably, those 202 are daily?

Yes, 202 daily rotations. So 101 daily departures from YTZ. AC is using all 30 slots right now to run 15x daily YTZ-YUL.

Related press release:
http://www.torontoport.com/Airport/N...tions-at-Billy-Bishop-Toronto.aspx

Slots aren't all being used on weekends when frequency drops on many routes. For example, AC (SkyRegional) frequency YTZ-YUL goes from hourly to every 2 hours for much of the day on weekends when business traffic drops off.


User currently offlineBureaucromancer From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12543 times:

Quoting aamd11 (Reply 17):

No slots available at YTZ for WS. All 202 slots are currently held by PD (172) and AC (30).

Unless they figured out a way to gain access to a fleet of 26 Q400s and YTZ slots in one shot.  

It wouldn't shock me if some deal were made in the next few years to open up more slots, and at the end of the day the Port Authority will be under significant public pressure if anyone expresses interest in starting service given what happened with the Continental slots. More flights in the corridor has definitely been a big part of their eastern marketing as of late, although as with AC the advantages of the island are questionable between lack of connectivity and the air rail link coming (it seems to me comping train tickets would be more cost effective than setting up on the island).

I really do agree that what would make the most sense if they are looking for more growth is to go larger, and to me that means either 757s or 787s, with the obvious availability problems associated with both. My guess is that they will look very closely at that in the not too distant future, but it won't be until the backlogs start to be reduced on the competitive long range aircraft and the performance numbers become more solid on the re-engined narrow bodies (as in once it becomes clear whether you might be able stretch transatlantic from places other than YYT out of the new 737 MAXs).


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3945 posts, RR: 2
Reply 40, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 11252 times:
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It sounds like the E75 would be ideal for WS. The Q400s don't have the range the E75s do which would give them a lot more flexibility to fly medium haul, thin routes more frequently versus operating the heavier and more expensive 736s.

User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 10449 times:

Just some thoughts.

One thing about the current 737 fleet is flexibility. Even the 600 has good legs, more than the 800 I believe, but particularly the 700 can operate a YUL or YYZ - YVR transcon, then do a hop to YXS or YLW for example. That flexibility would be gone with a mixed fleet. However, 5 hour transcons are not the be all and end all and I guess the fleet and route network is already large enough for this to not be an issue.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 29):
I don't see the C-Series.....too close in capacity to the 73G, and still a paper plane.

Right now the 737 fleet is on average pretty young, but there are some leased 700's which are already 10 years old. In 5-8 years time, there will be around another 50+ aircraft all built between 2002-2005 will be ready to move on (plus I dont know when those leases expire anyway). In all honesty, I think the 737 MAX is a given at WS, but I would not be surprised to only see 800's and the lower end go to the C-Series as 600 & 700 replacement. While 700's are still being delivered, most of the new deliveries are actually 800's. I have often thought 900ER's would also work well for them, but others on here have always shot me down (if AC can fill 767's on trancons, Hawaii & Mexico then why cant WS fill 900's? But thats a different discussion...).

I would put good money on WS operating the CSeries ahead of AC...

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 29):
One idea, they could order a mix of E175 and E190's and have Embraer take as trade-ins the 736 fleet.

I dont think so. While still very good planes, with the CF34 they are now moving towards the "old technology" category. Orders now will be for the future and long term. Why replace a 736 with todays technology? That includes the CR7/9/X too.

Quoting yegbey01 (Reply 16):
Why should WestJet be going after Q400's? to serve what markets? Smaller size cities in Canada? Or to run flights out of YYZ to US cities?

Im really not too familiar the demographics in the east, but in the west there are plenty of routes on the surface of it. Ex YVR routes to YLW, YKA & YXS seem to be perfect examples, and there are many ex YYC & YEG into YMM, BC, SK & MB, note the competition fly old Dash 8's or CRJ1/200's for the most part. It would be an interesting study to find out what is cheaper, a single 73G flight or two Q400 flights. If these routes are currently operating with a decent LF - which they must be to still exist - then it will take two Q400's to replace a single 73G flight in terms of seats. While frequencies would have to increase, which no doubt would be good for their guests ( ) I really have no idea if bottom line they would actually make more money. If I had to guess one way or the other, I would say no. Which would mean Q400's would be more to take on Jazz at smaller stations, particularly in the east. A lot of this feed is into international & Star partner flights, so I just done see it, not until they have their own 787's flying transatlantic to several destinations or possibly full OneWorld membership anyway. Which may be closer than we think of course (lots of lessors with unallocated Dreamliners... ).

So many what ifs, but my 2 cents are on the CSeries.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 42, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10094 times:

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 41):
I think the 737 MAX is a given at WS

Agreed.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 41):
I have often thought 900ER's would also work well for them

On some routes no doubt. But does it make sense for WS to order a small fleet of 739ER when their 738 fleet is still small? Might be operationally better to build up their 738 fleet.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 41):
It would be an interesting study to find out what is cheaper, a single 73G flight or two Q400 flights. If these routes are currently operating with a decent LF - which they must be to still exist - then it will take two Q400's to replace a single 73G flight in terms of seats.

It's not a question of which is cheaper but which can generate more traffic/revenue at lower incremental cost. Generating more traffic often relies on more frequencies which means smaller aircraft. For instance, WS operates 1x daily 73G on YYZ-YXE vs 4x daily AC E190...clearly the latter is more convenient for most people. If WS operated the E175, they could also offer 2-3 dailies on the same route with incremental revenue possibly exceeding incremental costs.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9451 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 42):
On some routes no doubt. But does it make sense for WS to order a small fleet of 739ER when their 738 fleet is still small? Might be operationally better to build up their 738 fleet.

I think they will when the MAX comes along. There has been a higher proportion of 800's in the latest deliveries. Its no different than operating a small subfleet of 600's as they do now is it? Im pretty sure they could operate at least 20 on key trunk routes & WS Vacations flights to LAS, FL, HI, Mexico & the Caribbean.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 42):
It's not a question of which is cheaper but which can generate more traffic/revenue at lower incremental cost.

Which is why it would be an interesting study. Operating 3x the aircraft would increase the costs with the extra crew, fuel, landing / airport / Navcan fees etc plus the aircraft payment, insurance & mx etc itself. Bottom line I dont know if they would make more money. For example, to operate 4x YVR-YLW flight a day, to replace the current 736/G seat for seat is 7-8 Q400 flights. That is surely a huge increase in costs too and I honestly dont know if the potential revenue increase from the extra frequency would be there. Surely the price of the tickets = revenue would have to be the same, but it would seem the incremental costs rise?

Another thing to consider is that while the 737 is no cargo hauler even compared to the A32S, it sure beats the Q400 or even C Series hands now. WS Cargo is a nice little earner.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlinecyeg66 From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 190 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 9085 times:

WS could get props and operate them under their new subsidiary's banner: Westprop.   While economically speaking it may seem possible, I don't think it'll happen. They're consistently profitable, whereas the 'enemy' isn't, no matter what the enemy seems to do. That said, with Saretsky now at the helm, it appears more likely now than before that they could move away from a single type. Time will tell.


slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
User currently offlineykaops From Canada, joined Nov 2010, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8800 times:

Gee, I heard they have ordered 12 G650's and named the subsidiary "BusinessJet" to open new Transpac services to HKG/PVG and NRT in an all EconomyComfort class      

User currently offlineC172Akula From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 996 posts, RR: 4
Reply 46, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7721 times:

Rumour is there will be an announcement tomorrow at WS about a new operating model that may involve a smaller regional player in Canada.

User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 47, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7430 times:

Quoting C172Akula (Reply 46):
Rumour is there will be an announcement tomorrow at WS about a new operating model that may involve a smaller regional player in Canada.

That would be a very interesting move if it happens. Question: if WS go for, say a swack of Q400s, would they be tempted to dump their -600s ?



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1802 posts, RR: 10
Reply 48, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7305 times:

Quoting C172Akula (Reply 46):
Rumour is there will be an announcement tomorrow at WS about a new operating model that may involve a smaller regional player in Canada.

Very interesting. Possibly in response to Rovinescu's recent rambling about an AC budget carrier?...Or maybe just to make sure PD stays in the east?  



Flying refined.
User currently offlinehaggisman From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7057 times:

I'd love to see Westjet get some Q400s and go head to head with Air Canada on the YVR-YCD route. Air Canada have had it to themselves for years and as a result prices have doubled in the last three years - $142 for a 7 minute flight.

That would fill in Westjets Vancouver Island service nicely. They already fly Comox to Calgary and Victoria to Calgary. Feeding their YVR base with traffic from the island would be a good move in my opinion.

Scotty



e pluribus Scotsman
User currently offlineYXXMIKE From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7005 times:

Quoting haggisman (Reply 49):
I'd love to see Westjet get some Q400s and go head to head with Air Canada on the YVR-YCD route. Air Canada have had it to themselves for years and as a result prices have doubled in the last three years - $142 for a 7 minute flight.

That would fill in Westjets Vancouver Island service nicely. They already fly Comox to Calgary and Victoria to Calgary. Feeding their YVR base with traffic from the island would be a good move in my opinion.

Scotty

If it is Q400's that WS is after then the route possibilities become very interesting to Vancouver Island. Seeing as WS already dominates at YQQ, would the offer a regional service to YVR out of YCD or YBL? Or go head to head at YCD and seasonal out of YBL to compete on the fishing market? Would they expand their offerings out of YYJ to start competing with horizon on SEA?

From what I've heard, WS has some very very deep pockets at the moment and are ready to wage war. Should be another interesting chapter in Canadian aviation if they do decide to go head to head with AC on the regional markets.


User currently offlinethreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2127 posts, RR: 9
Reply 51, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6900 times:

Quoting haggisman (Reply 49):
YVR-YCD route...7 minute flight.

I get your point, but to be more accurate, you can triple - at least - the length of time to takes to actually fly the route.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineRJLover From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 571 posts, RR: 1
Reply 52, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6945 times:

Quoting haggisman (Reply 49):
Air Canada have had it to themselves for years and as a result prices have doubled in the last three years - $142 for a 7 minute flight.

AC hardly has Nanaimo-Vancouver to themselves! Unless I am mistaken, Harbour Air, West Coast Air, Seair, and Tofino Air all still operate from Nanaimo Harbour to either Vancouver Harbour (for those passengers paying $142 to fly ONLY YCD-YVR) or to YVR (floatplane base, with shuttle service to the main terminal).



Last Flight(s): YHZ-YYZ-YVR // YVR-YYJ // YYJ-YYZ-YUL-YHZ.....Next Flight(s):
User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6888 times:

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 50):
If it is Q400's that WS is after then the route possibilities become very interesting to Vancouver Island. Seeing as WS already dominates at YQQ, would the offer a regional service to YVR out of YCD or YBL? Or go head to head at YCD and seasonal out of YBL to compete on the fishing market? Would they expand their offerings out of YYJ to start competing with horizon on SEA?

I feel if they did this the loser would be 8P and a lesser extent the floatplane operators rather than AC. While Im sure WS dont particularly care where the pax come from, but it would be sad for YVR and BC aviation for WS to do that to 8P. I would rather they worked together, WS is not adverse to codeshares - CX & DL - so why not regionally too? Win win for both parties IMO.

I also think the Q400 is way too much beast for short runs to the island from YVR. YYC maybe, but not YVR.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlinehaggisman From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6689 times:

Quoting threepoint (Reply 51):
Quoting threepoint (Reply 51):
Quoting haggisman (Reply 49):
YVR-YCD route...7 minute flight.

I get your point, but to be more accurate, you can triple - at least - the length of time to takes to actually fly the route.

Yes it's a 20 min or so block time but I've timed wheels-up to wheels down and have had it as low as 7 mins ... most of time it's about 10 - 15 mins

Scotty

[Edited 2011-11-08 23:20:53]


e pluribus Scotsman
User currently offlinehaggisman From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6666 times:

Quoting RJLover (Reply 52):
Quoting haggisman (Reply 49):
Air Canada have had it to themselves for years and as a result prices have doubled in the last three years - $142 for a 7 minute flight.

AC hardly has Nanaimo-Vancouver to themselves! Unless I am mistaken, Harbour Air, West Coast Air, Seair, and Tofino Air all still operate from Nanaimo Harbour to either Vancouver Harbour (for those passengers paying $142 to fly ONLY YCD-YVR) or to YVR (floatplane base, with shuttle service to the main terminal).

This is true, but I was referring to the Nanaimo Airport - YVR route, not to and from the two seaplane bases in Nanaimo. I doubt WS has any plans there in that area   The Jazz flights are the only game in town at the moment if you want to have a more reliable crossing - floatplanes get socked in with low ceilings and fog. I'm just saying that Westjet would probably do very well flying smaller planes out of YCD by giving AC some much-needed competition on that route and allowing Nanaimo area residents to avoid driving to either Comox or Victoria. Driving over the Malahat Summit in the winter to get to Victoria for an early WS flight to Calgary is not a pleasant experience - I'd much rather fly YCD to YVR on WS and have baggage booked all the way instead of having to take a Jazz flight then gather bags and have to check in again on WS.

Scotty



e pluribus Scotsman
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2033 posts, RR: 6
Reply 56, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6631 times:

It's more likely that WestJet would sign Tier 3 agreements with 705 operators that are already well established in the regional market, instead of integrating smaller aircraft into their fleet and operating them on feeder routes.


No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineC172Akula From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 996 posts, RR: 4
Reply 57, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6443 times:

Well I guess we'll see what today brings.

Other names I've heard thrown into this have been CMA and Hawkair. Very interesting when you keep in mind that CMA stopped flying some of the small routes for AC Jazz (express) from YYC to Lethbridge, Medicine Hat, and Cranbrook.

Those routes have since been taken over by Georgian flying for AC Express. So CMA may have some extra B1900's lying around waiting for some use.


User currently offlineflyb From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 681 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6375 times:

YEG/YYC - Lethbridge would be awesome.

User currently offlinecyeg66 From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 190 posts, RR: 1
Reply 59, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6259 times:

Quoting flyb (Reply 58):
YEG/YYC - Lethbridge would be awesome.

Say goodbye to YQL-based Integra if that happens, though.



slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
User currently offlineC172Akula From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 996 posts, RR: 4
Reply 60, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6257 times:

Well today also happens to be the day they are releasing their third quarter results. Perhaps some of the sources mistook today and that announcement for whatever else is being cooked up?

User currently offlineYYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1003 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5888 times:
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As expected there seems to be no announcement. If anyone is cooking up anything they are keeping it pretty quiet.


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User currently offlineC172Akula From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 996 posts, RR: 4
Reply 62, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5661 times:

Nope, something is up though and I guess we'll find out in due time what it is.

User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5617 times:

Quoting C172Akula (Reply 57):
Other names I've heard thrown into this have been CMA and Hawkair. Very interesting when you keep in mind that CMA stopped flying some of the small routes for AC Jazz (express) from YYC to Lethbridge, Medicine Hat, and Cranbrook

Dont CMA own Hawkair now? Theres now a Dash 8 flying around doing charters in basic HA livery, but with a GLR flight # too. HA also moved from the domestic terminal to the main terminal at YVR, right next to WS at the B gates...   



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2033 posts, RR: 6
Reply 64, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 5481 times:

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 63):

On paper CMA, Hawkair, and NT Air are owned by the same numbered company. All 3 airlines operate as separate entities for the most part.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 63):
but with a GLR flight # too.

They operate charters for each other when needed.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineC172Akula From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 996 posts, RR: 4
Reply 65, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5004 times:

The WS CFO says a lot and nothing at the same time:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...1/15/westjet-idUSN1E7AE0LL20111115


User currently offlineYYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1003 posts, RR: 0
Reply 66, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4822 times:
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My money is on some of the unidentified 787 orders being for WestJet.


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User currently offlineYXXMIKE From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 67, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4683 times:

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 66):
My money is on some of the unidentified 787 orders being for WestJet.

Very interesting, do you think they'll go head to head against AC and if it was a wide body order do you think that would be the key to an alliance for them? Also, how many UFO orders are there still left on the boeing books?


User currently offlineYYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1003 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4664 times:
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16 orders are UFO at the moment. I think they are more likely to go head to head against Transat and AC on the leisure markets than to be going head to head against Jazz on the money loosing regional routes.

But that's just me.



DHC1/3/4 MD88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
User currently onlinegolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 717 posts, RR: 2
Reply 69, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4637 times:

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 66):
My money is on some of the unidentified 787 orders being for WestJet.

Hmm ... long, thin routes for WS? Are they starting any ULH destinations?


User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1802 posts, RR: 10
Reply 70, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4561 times:

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 68):
16 orders are UFO at the moment. I think they are more likely to go head to head against Transat and AC on the leisure markets than to be going head to head against Jazz on the money loosing regional routes.

But that's just me.

Definitely plausible. But only 2 of the aforementioned 16 UFO orders are 788s. Would WS take that much of a jump to go straight to the 789? Personally, if I were betting on a WS wide-body order, I would almost certainly go for the 788.

Quoting golfradio (Reply 69):
Hmm ... long, thin routes for WS? Are they starting any ULH destinations?

I haven't heard so much as a whisper about ULH destinations. I would love to see it happen though!



Flying refined.
User currently offlineYYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1003 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4469 times:
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I'd bet 788 too. I think it's much more likely than doing regional flying.


DHC1/3/4 MD88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
User currently offlinerobsaw From Canada, joined Dec 2008, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 72, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4373 times:

Quoting YYZatcboy (Reply 66):
My money is on some of the unidentified 787 orders being for WestJet.

Westjet is a publicly traded company. They cannot withhold such a large capital investment decision from their required securities regulatory filings.

Westjet is doing nothing more at the moment than every business with any sense does - seriously considering their options - no decision yet.


User currently offlineC172Akula From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 996 posts, RR: 4
Reply 73, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 4242 times:

Hmm, if WS does get the 788's I can just picture the first routes:

YYC-HKG
YYC-PEK
YYC-DXB


 


User currently offlineykaops From Canada, joined Nov 2010, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4005 times:

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 50):
I'd love to see Westjet get some Q400s and go head to head with Air Canada on the YVR-YCD route. Air Canada have had it to themselves for years and as a result prices have doubled in the last three years - $142 for a 7 minute flight.

That would fill in Westjets Vancouver Island service nicely. They already fly Comox to Calgary and Victoria to Calgary. Feeding their YVR base with traffic from the island would be a good move in my opinion.

Scotty

There is NO WAY that a carrier would operate a Q400 on a leg like that! Not to mention the redciulous number of cycles piling up for such a short thin route, wear and tear on a new frame, but crews wud hate making the numerous radio changes on such a short leg over and over.

FYI The shortest commercial flight time recorded on this route was 8 min 37sec on an F28-1000mk in the mid 90's by Canadian Regional


User currently offlinehaggisman From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3685 times:

Quoting ykaops (Reply 74):
Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 50):
I'd love to see Westjet get some Q400s and go head to head with Air Canada on the YVR-YCD route. Air Canada have had it to themselves for years and as a result prices have doubled in the last three years - $142 for a 7 minute flight.

That would fill in Westjets Vancouver Island service nicely. They already fly Comox to Calgary and Victoria to Calgary. Feeding their YVR base with traffic from the island would be a good move in my opinion.

Scotty

There is NO WAY that a carrier would operate a Q400 on a leg like that! Not to mention the redciulous number of cycles piling up for such a short thin route, wear and tear on a new frame, but crews wud hate making the numerous radio changes on such a short leg over and over.

FYI The shortest commercial flight time recorded on this route was 8 min 37sec on an F28-1000mk in the mid 90's by Canadian Regional

Actually that was me who made that posting, not YXXMIKE. I can sorta see your point about it being overkill with a plane the size of a Q400, but why not include other hops in addition to YVR? Abbotsford and Kelowa come to mind as well as Calgary. Stopping in YVR would be gravy.

BTW I did time the crossing I was on from YVR to YCD and it was a shade over 7 mins - wheels up to wheels down - this was in summer of 2008 on a Jazz Dash8-300

Scotty



e pluribus Scotsman
User currently offlineYXXMIKE From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 76, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3557 times:

Quoting haggisman (Reply 75):

With a Q400 there are a lot of options out west for WS. I can think of a couple of interesting niche seasonal routes as well as year round routes which a Q400 would be ideal for!

YBL - YLW - YYC
YCD - YVR - YXS
YYJ - YXX - YLW
YXX - YQL

I'm not a fan of WS myself, something I've made abundantly clear in many other posts. However their lower operating costs benefit them on these niche routes. I know YBL isn't a big market but when it comes to fishing season this place booms! It now has a runway which can handle some bigger, heavier machines as well. The other benefit of these airports is their own price point in attracting new service. Obviously with the exception of YYC, they don't have huge facilities and overheads to take care of.

If WS decided on the 787 or a similar widebody it could really do some neat routes, in particular it could offer up something like:

YXX - LGW or even crazier yet, YXX - LGW - DEL/BOM

I think in my opinion if WS decided to run a wide body they'll be highly sought after for an alliance. If they join an alliance then those big birds will be running out of YVR/YYC/YYZ/YUL only.


User currently offlineBureaucromancer From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 77, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3565 times:

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 76):
I think in my opinion if WS decided to run a wide body they'll be highly sought after for an alliance. If they join an alliance then those big birds will be running out of YVR/YYC/YYZ/YUL only.

You might eventually see limited service out of Edmonton, Winnipeg and Halifax as well IMO.


User currently offlinecyeg66 From Canada, joined Feb 2011, 190 posts, RR: 1
Reply 78, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3569 times:

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 76):
I think in my opinion if WS decided to run a wide body they'll be highly sought after for an alliance. If they join an alliance then those big birds will be running out of YVR/YYC/YYZ/YUL only.

3 of those 4 perhaps, but unlikely YUL. YUL is dominated by AC and WS's flights from YUL are pretty heavily O & D. They'd need to increase connectivity there significantly. I'd bet my bottom dollar YEG would get something.



slow to 160, contact tower, slow to 160, contact tower, slow to....ZZZZZZZ......
User currently offlineBureaucromancer From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 79, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3405 times:

There is another possibility of course, that they are looking at a very small fleet of widebodies almost exclusively for the holiday destinations...

They've already leased larger aircraft for those operations, and five or less aircraft of any type would give their package vacation operation some breating room, and scheduling in general some flexibility without frekaing out the competition in the way that full intercontinental service would (I can't help but think AC would get very aggressive if WS was clearly trying to be a second global Canadian airline between how they normally treat competitors and the amount of trouble they went to to finish Canadian back in 2000. Such a strategy would also open the door to experimenting with intercontinental scheduled service without any painfully large commitments.

At the end of the day, as much as I want another international carrier and as much as I do like WS I have a hard time seeing them risk as much as would be involved in an all out entry to a market that has been the death of a LOT of carriers over the years.


User currently offlinethreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2127 posts, RR: 9
Reply 80, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 3294 times:

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 76):
YBL - YLW - YYC

Not a chance a YBL add-on would make money even in salmon season, although YLW desperately needs Q400 service on its YVR and YYC routes.

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 76):
YYJ - YXX - YLW

The entire YYJ-YXX air travel market being reliably served by the current Navajo service. No way they fill 70 more seats. Or even 30. And who would fly YXX-YLW when you're spending hundreds more to save an hour and a half? Anyone off to Kelowna is towing their boat and/or needs their car when they get there.

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 76):
YXX - LGW - DEL/BOM

Now you're talking.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineYXXMIKE From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3236 times:

Quoting threepoint (Reply 80):
Not a chance a YBL add-on would make money even in salmon season, although YLW desperately needs Q400 service on its YVR and YYC routes.

I say this to a lot of people, they say the exact same thing as you did. How do you know it wouldn't work? What's to say that routing wouldn't work? Do you know how many people from Alberta own property in and around YBL? Have you been to YBL during fishing season? Have you seen all of the planes that come and go out of that airport? Trust me on this one, there is a market for that area.

Quoting threepoint (Reply 80):

The entire YYJ-YXX air travel market being reliably served by the current Navajo service. No way they fill 70 more seats. Or even 30. And who would fly YXX-YLW when you're spending hundreds more to save an hour and a half? Anyone off to Kelowna is towing their boat and/or needs their car when they get there.

Yes, not my best example but if a carrier wanted to compete against a PA31 it would likely have much better economics and be able to offer a much better price offering than the o'll ho'.

Obviously the run up to YLW was a bad example but CMA used to do a YXX - YLW - YXS run. In honesty it didn't do well at the start but it was very busy in the winter because a lot of people didn't want to drive the highways.

Needless to say, a Q400 in the hands of WS is a dangerous little machine and could let them expand into some new markets while turning better margins out of others; like YLW for example. I really wish AC had the ability to be more competitive and have a bit more flexibility to try out some different market offerings. I'd love to see them in YBL as they wouldn't have to compete against WS in YQQ.


User currently offlineJetCaptain From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 236 posts, RR: 1
Reply 82, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3211 times:

Quote:
WestJet likely to expand into second aircraft type for fleet

Nicole Mordant, Reuters, November 15, 2011

WestJet Airlines Ltd is likely to diversify from its current single-aircraft fleet type eventually, although no decision has been made at this stage, its chief financial officer said on Tuesday.

"It is likely that we, at some point, will move into a second fleet type. We study it continuously," said Vito Culmone, the CFO of Canada’s second biggest airline.

He said WestJet was studying moves into the wide-body aircraft market as well as the regional aircraft market. At this stage it had no preference for either market.

WestJet operates a single fleet of Boeing Next-Generation 737 aircraft. The uniform fleet, which brings with it lower maintenance, training and other costs, is often cited as a major reason why WestJet’s expenses are one-third lower than bigger rival Air Canada’s.

Culmone’s comments were made at the Scotia Capital transportation and aerospace conference in Toronto.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...1/15/westjet-idUSN1E7AE0LL20111115


User currently offlineconnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 83, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3135 times:

Quoting Bureaucromancer (Reply 79):
There is another possibility of course, that they are looking at a very small fleet of widebodies almost exclusively for the holiday destinations...

That makes sense. Summer to Europe, Winter to South America or anywhere else really. Westjet B737 capacity grows fast and their existent codeshare agreements with various global airliners will bring in some additional $ 500 mil within the next five years. I'll say yeah it's a good time to lease a few A330-200 and try to spin them around before AC comes up with their own version of long haul - low cost.

        


User currently offlineYYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1003 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2990 times:
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Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 81):
I say this to a lot of people, they say the exact same thing as you did. How do you know it wouldn't work? What's to say that routing wouldn't work? Do you know how many people from Alberta own property in and around YBL? Have you been to YBL during fishing season? Have you seen all of the planes that come and go out of that airport? Trust me on this one, there is a market for that area.

I think that market is served pretty well by existing flights to YQQ. I mean, it's less than an hours drive YBL-YQQ... Comox already gets multiple flights a day with the 737's from YYC and YEG, so what is the point in doing it with a Dash 8?



DHC1/3/4 MD88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16228 posts, RR: 57
Reply 85, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2741 times:

Quoting C172Akula (Reply 73):
Hmm, if WS does get the 788's I can just picture the first routes:

YYC-HKG
YYC-PEK
YYC-DXB

Nope....more like YYZ-YVR/YYC and YVR/YYC-HNL. All current 738-heavy routes (YYC-HNL is 752 in winter).

Quoting Bureaucromancer (Reply 79):
There is another possibility of course, that they are looking at a very small fleet of widebodies almost exclusively for the holiday destinations...

Yupp, agreed.

I think a 739ER order is more logical than a 788 order though.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineBureaucromancer From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2689 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 85):
I think a 739ER order is more logical than a 788 order though.

My best guess is that they won't do much of anything until more is known about 737 MAX performance. I would be quite surprised if they DIDN'T get some MAX 9s assuming they have the range to comfortably make HNL from YYC. I'd also guess that widebodies ARE being being examined but that no decision will be made until the MAX decision, and between that timeline and the order backlog on all aircraft types at this point I think the most expansion we're likely to see in the next decade or so (other than the NGs already on order) is more leasing.


User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4846 posts, RR: 16
Reply 87, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2643 times:

This has been on the cards for some time. http://airceo.com/2010/03/westjet-the-next-move/

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 76):

If WS decided on the 787 or a similar widebody it could really do some neat routes, in particular it could offer up something like:

YXX - LGW or even crazier yet, YXX - LGW - DEL/BOM

I'm not sure that would work:
If you're focusing on YXX because of the demographics then you should be thinking of getting to ATQ more than DEL and BOM. The stopover makes things uglier still. Last but not least There are shorter ways to get from the Vancouver area to DEL/BOM. YVR-ICN-DEL is almost 1000nm less than YXX-LGW-DEL...

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 76):
I think in my opinion if WS decided to run a wide body they'll be highly sought after for an alliance.

Agreed.

Quoting connector4you (Reply 83):
That makes sense. Summer to Europe, Winter to South America or anywhere else really. Westjet B737 capacity grows fast and their existent codeshare agreements with various global airliners will bring in some additional $ 500 mil within the next five years. I'll say yeah it's a good time to lease a few A330-200 and try to spin them around before AC comes up with their own version of long haul - low cost.

Given that they are already leasing a 757 for winter ops from YYC to Hawaii this is distinct possibility.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlinethreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2127 posts, RR: 9
Reply 88, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2532 times:

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 81):
Do you know how many people from Alberta own property in and around YBL?

No, but it's not very many. The mass influx of Albertans has been down the road in the Comox Valley.

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 81):
Have you been to YBL during fishing season?

Many many times, and for weeks at a time.

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 81):
Have you seen all of the planes that come and go out of that airport?

Yes (see above). They're either B1900/Saab 340 routes from YVR or private corporate aircraft.

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 81):
Trust me on this one, there is a market for that area.

Not gonna bite, not in Campbell River. It's a completely different demographic than Courtenay/Comox. Which is well served by WestJet already.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlinejamincan From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 775 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2418 times:

Keep the riff-raff out of Campbell River; I like it the way it is!

FWIW, I think that a hypothetical YXX-LGW-India routing would be more optimal simply b/c of the opportunity to pick up additional traffic b/w LGW-India. I'm not sure what the Indian expat community is like in S. Korea, but I'm guessing it's many times smaller than the British one.


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