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San Jose Could Get Japan Flights Next Year  
User currently offlinepsa188 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 494 posts, RR: 19
Posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6987 times:

According to the SJ business journal, we might see ANA 787s here some day soon:

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/n...t-japan-flights-next.html?page=all

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1555 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6860 times:
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BOS was already announced as a 787 route for next April.

I'd think the following cities are up there for consideration:

SJC
SEA
DIA (DEN)
SAN

Less likely but still possible:
DFW (though not a Star Hub)
IAH (though UA flies to Narita already)

To be honest, SJC should be a no brainer given the ties between the Silicon Valley and Japan.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5221 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6853 times:

From the article:

Quote:
Gary Weiss, ANA’s Los Angeles-based director of market development for the Americas, said Tuesday San Jose is one of 10 cities in the United States that are candidates for new or additional service. The airline now has one daily flight between San Francisco International Airport and Japan...

I think these 2 sentences are very telling as to the real meat of the article: there are 9 other cities "in the running" -- I'd sure love to see THAT list! -- and ANA currently flies SFO-Japan once daily.

As I've wondered for a couple of years now, would ANA really start a flight from an airport so close to one they already serve when there are obviously several other potential gateways they're interested in? Of course more than one of these possible new cities could see service, but that still begs the question as to if they would operate 2 stations 30-40 miles apart?

In any case, it's nice to hear that ANA may be adding new U.S. service using the Dreamliners next year! Good luck to SJC.

bb


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5829 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6798 times:
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Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):
SEA

I would be surprised to see ANA service at SEA with UA in the market, even with a Dreamliner unless they were allowed to fly SEA-Haneda or UA leaves the SEA-NRT. I think SEA would have a largest enough market to support 777-200's or larger.

I definitely think SJC would be SJC-HND or SJC-NRT contender using 787's. It's probably a given if ANA is displaying their interiors product there. Definitely would be nice to see Asian service return to SJC.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15444 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6766 times:

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):
To be honest, SJC should be a no brainer given the ties between the Silicon Valley and Japan.

It should be, but the economy and tsunami in Japan threw a wrench in the works. I think they could give it a try next year though.

SJC, which would likely be a business heavy market, works well with ANA's low density configuration. I'm thinking that SEA would probably best be left with UA, and while DEN-NRT would be a great route for a 787, I think it would possibly be better if it were a UA 787.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5221 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6708 times:

One thing I will say about the SJ community (A.netters, print media, etc.) is that they are certainly keeping everyone aware that their community is chasing after and in the running for ANA service to Japan; there is a whole lot of publicity being put out there in the South Bay area!

I can almost guarantee that the other 9 mystery cities talked about in the article have been working just as hard as SJC on trying to land ANA at their airport. It's pretty obvious that there is an alternative approach to the process of negotiating, dealing, selling, begging, etc., with a carrier such as ANA -- that is behind the scenes and very low profile. (I know for a fact that is the style used by at least one airport that I would agree with 'Flyer is probably in the running for ANA as well.)

I am patiently sitting back and waiting to see what actually happens with ANA and U.S. expansion. In the meantime, I doubt it will ever be released (for the very reason I mentioned above) but I sure would love to see THE LIST, or hear more about it... A fun and exciting year or two ahead for all of us!

bb


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24311 posts, RR: 47
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6682 times:

In fairness the ANA Chairman this week made reference to a host of new potential markets they were looking at to utilize the 787 on including ones to Europe such as Belgium and Switzerland besides options of the 10 US markets the article mentions.

So I would not hold my breath as they obviously have many potential balls in the air and will only risk launching one or two new routes at a time.


p.s. - forgot to add. Any North America flying decisions will obviously be made in conjunction with United due to the nature of the risk and revenue sharing of the JV. So unless UA sees a route as a net-positive for the JV, it wont happen solely on ANA's desires.

[Edited 2011-10-27 21:26:51]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6618 times:

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):
BOS was already announced as a 787 route for next April.

That was JAL not ANA.


User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1555 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6588 times:
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Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 7):
That was JAL not ANA.

You're right sorry.


User currently offlineflySFO From United States of America, joined Apr 2011, 108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 6581 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):
As I've wondered for a couple of years now, would ANA really start a flight from an airport so close to one they already serve when there are obviously several other potential gateways they're interested in? Of course more than one of these possible new cities could see service, but that still begs the question as to if they would operate 2 stations 30-40 miles apart?

How close are ANA's other long-haul destinations together (in Europe for example)?


User currently offlineFutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6434 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
p.s. - forgot to add. Any North America flying decisions will obviously be made in conjunction with United due to the nature of the risk and revenue sharing of the JV. So unless UA sees a route as a net-positive for the JV, it wont happen solely on ANA's desires.

And you can't exactly imagine that UA/NH is exactly itching to start a route that will just pull passengers away from their SFO flights....


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5829 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6405 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
p.s. - forgot to add. Any North America flying decisions will obviously be made in conjunction with United due to the nature of the risk and revenue sharing of the JV. So unless UA sees a route as a net-positive for the JV, it wont happen solely on ANA's desires.

UA and NH may be codeshare partners through Star Alliance. But they are both individual, autonomous international airlines. Are you 100% sure that ANA must have UAL's approval to start a market in the US? Even though they do take into consideration different world markets for expansion, I think each airline makes their own decisions.

You know LAXintl, this industry is crazy...anything can happen. Don't rule out SJC-NRT or SJC-HND completely. I really don't think ANA's needs UAL's permission to serve SJC...or any US market.


User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1097 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6325 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 11):
You know LAXintl, this industry is crazy...anything can happen. Don't rule out SJC-NRT or SJC-HND completely. I really don't think ANA's needs UAL's permission to serve SJC...or any US market.

What about DL on a 763ER timed with the SFO departure to make onward conx @ NRT to DL's Asian network, or is that unthinkable wishful thinking?


User currently offlineSANMAN66 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 758 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6323 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 5):
behind the scenes and very low profile. (I know for a fact that is the style used by at least one airport that I would agree with 'Flyer is probably in the running for ANA as well.)

That's a good strategy. SJC officials should keep it silent that they are trying to woo ANA. Because it tells what
their intentions are to the competing cities also in the running for ANA service. The other cities will have the advantage
of increasing incentives and benefits to seduce ANA away from SJC. That's why we keep getting those surprise announcements, such as JAL's BOS-NRT service, or BA's SAN-LHR service. It's simply "the right hand not letting
the left hand know what it's doing." Keep it hush-hush until they know for sure ANA will in fact start service there, or
they could lose their chances to a competing offering better incentives.

[Edited 2011-10-27 23:03:32]


PSA Gives you a lift!
User currently offlinerichcandy From UK - England, joined Aug 2001, 716 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6241 times:

Quoting flySFO (Reply 9):
How close are ANA's other long-haul destinations together (in Europe for example)?

In Europe they only fly to FRA, MUC, CDG and LHR.

FRA to MUC is 398km or 247 miles
PAR to LON is 451km or 283 miles


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15444 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6223 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 11):
Are you 100% sure that ANA must have UAL's approval to start a market in the US?

I'd imagine it depends on how their relationship and JV is structured. Either way it's better for them to be on the same page.

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 10):
And you can't exactly imagine that UA/NH is exactly itching to start a route that will just pull passengers away from their SFO flights....

Not necessarily. SFO will still generate plenty of traffic and fill a lot of seats with connections. SJC would work because it would pull its own market, mostly Silicon Valley business people. Sure a lot of those people probably would go to SFO anyway, but the flight to SJC could serve to 1) Pull pax who would have flown from SFO on another airline 2) Pax who may have flown from SFO to another point in Asia (nonstop or otherwise) might use SJC instead and connect in Tokyo, especially if they would have had to connect anyway and 3) the airline could possibly extract better yields from SJC than if those passengers were flying from SFO. Overall, I think the net effect at SFO would be negligible. Maybe a smaller plane on a flight or two or at worst losing one flight, but I think SJC could be a winner if the market really is there. If the route does not start or does not succeed I think it won't be because of fears about cannibalizing SFO.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5221 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5864 times:

/

Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 13):
SJC officials should keep it silent that they are trying to woo ANA. Because it tells what
their intentions are to the competing cities also in the running for ANA service. The other cities will have the advantage
of increasing incentives and benefits to seduce ANA away from SJC. That's why we keep getting those surprise announcements, such as JAL's BOS-NRT service, or BA's SAN-LHR service. It's simply "the right hand not letting
the left hand know what it's doing." Keep it hush-hush until they know for sure ANA will in fact start service there, or
they could lose their chances to a competing offering better incentives

Hey L., I thought I might see you here.

The strategy of keeping your cards close in and face down is apparently more widespread than the "shout-it-from-the-rooftops" method since at least I haven't heard a word about any of the other cities on the List of Ten. With the high-reward stakes involved, we normally don't hear much until an announcement is made, or at least expected soon. And the carrier itself is usually pretty quiet about things since they don't want to tip their hand to their competitors any earlier than they have to.

And again, when I look at the ANA route map and see all of 5 cities served on the U.S. mainland, I still have trouble believing that this carrier would add another gateway just 30 miles from one of those 5! Not at this stage of their expected expansion anyway...

bb


User currently offlineOsprey88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 330 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5795 times:

Quoting richcandy (Reply 14):

Honestly, I'd hesitate to compare the distance between Paris and London or Frankfurt and Munich as I think they are certainly more defined and individually robust markets.

I would certainly love to see a 787 come to SJC and I know Chuck Reed and others are make a huge push (and probably offering significant financial incentives) to ANA to convince them to start this service, however, I just don't see this route as economically viable given the amount of capacity going from the SFO-NRT.

Hopefully of course I'm wrong in which case I'll be out at the In & Out on Coleman to watch this beast land!  



"Reading departure signs in some big airports reminds me of the places I've been"
User currently offlinepsa188 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 494 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5757 times:

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 10):
And you can't exactly imagine that UA/NH is exactly itching to start a route that will just pull passengers away from their SFO flights.

According to this article, (scroll down) congestion at SFO's becoming a problem again, after a post 9/11 decline moderated the problem for the last decade:
http://www.centreforaviation.com/ana...york-and-change-comes-to-sfo-60823

The article points out that "This has led to the FAA suggesting that SFO, as from IATA summer schedule 2012, be designated as a level-two airport, defined by IATA as an airport 'where there is potential for congestion during some periods of the day, week or season, which can be resolved by voluntary cooperation between airlines'."

So as SFO gets congested again, look for airlines to start considering OAK and SJC again out of necessity. Wx is better at SJC, anyway.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24311 posts, RR: 47
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5587 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 11):
UA and NH may be codeshare partners through Star Alliance. But they are both individual, autonomous international airlines. Are you 100% sure that ANA must have UAL's approval to start a market in the US? Even though they do take into consideration different world markets for expansion, I think each airline makes their own decisions.

They are much more than code-share partners.

Effective April 2011 they commenced their antitrust Pacific JV.

Under the JV the airlines coordinate marketing and sales, align schedules, fares, and cross sell each others flights blindly.

All revenues and cost are split amongst the partners. They are essentially one airline across the Pacific now.

Quoting psa188 (Reply 18):
So as SFO gets congested again, look for airlines to start considering OAK and SJC again out of necessity. Wx is better at SJC, anyway.

Don't think any airline will look at SJC because of potential congestion at SFO. If they look at SJC is because of perceived market demand and belief they can make money at SJC.

There are tons of congested airports around the world, which airline still pile more service into. Its all a matter of $$.

[Edited 2011-10-28 10:54:58]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineflylku From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 787 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 4757 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):
As I've wondered for a couple of years now, would ANA really start a flight from an airport so close to one they already serve when there are obviously several other potential gateways they're interested in?
BA serves IAD and BWI which are (great circle) only 15 miles farther apart that SJC and SFO.

[Edited 2011-10-28 19:14:18]

[Edited 2011-10-28 19:15:14]


...are we there yet?
User currently offlinedwightm From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4406 times:
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Quoting Osprey88 (Reply 17):
I'll be out at the In & Out on Coleman to watch this beast land!

And I will be there as well with my camera, scanner, and a #2 meal from In & Out.  


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5221 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4280 times:

Quoting flylku (Reply 20):
BA serves IAD and BWI which are (great circle) only 15 miles farther apart that SJC and SFO

I never said that serving adjacent airports doesn't happen. In addition to your example, look at JFK and EWR, and probably MIA and FLL as a couple of additional ones.

I'm talking about ANA specifically here. BA serves what, 20 cities in the U.S. and is a major international carrier in this country; that's a lot different than the 5 mainland U.S. routes served by ANA. I'm just saying that when ANA expands in the U.S., does it really make sense that they would continue to leave entire huge regions of this country, containing large cities and, guessing here, large individual markets from/to Japan, completely unserved? It doesn't to me.


Quoting Osprey88 (Reply 17):
I would certainly love to see a 787 come to SJC and I know Chuck Reed and others are make a huge push (and probably offering significant financial incentives) to ANA to convince them to start this service...

You mention financial incentives. IF SJC has come up with a way to make subsidies available to ANA, or other cx for that matter, then anything becomes possible. It changes the game and could make any route possible. It's certainly been done in other cities...

bb


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2632 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4133 times:

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):
DIA (DEN)
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
while DEN-NRT would be a great route for a 787,
Quoting SANMAN66 (Reply 13):
Keep it hush-hush until they know for sure ANA will in fact start service there, or
they could lose their chances to a competing offering better incentives.
Quoting SANFan (Reply 16):
With the high-reward stakes involved, we normally don't hear much until an announcement is made, or at least expected soon. And the carrier itself is usually pretty quiet about things since they don't want to tip their hand to their competitors any earlier than they have to
Quoting SANFan (Reply 22):
You mention financial incentives. IF SJC has come up with a way to make subsidies available to ANA, or other cx for that matter, then anything becomes possible. It changes the game and could make any route possible. It's certainly been done in other cities...


On their website, DEN is offering:

Operational Incentive
The carrier will qualify for a 100% waiver of landing fees and remain overnight (RON) parking fees during the first 12 months of the promotional period. The carrier will qualify for a 50% waiver of landing fees during the second 12 months of the promotional period.

Marketing Incentive
The carrier will qualify for a marketing incentive to be administered through reimbursements. In the first 12 months of the promotional period, the carrier will qualify for US$1 million, and in the second 12 months of the promotional period, the carrier will qualify for US$500,000.


http://business.flydenver.com/info/news/airService.asp

This incentive is currently worth about $2.1M.

Also, the new Denver mayor, along with a contingency, is going to Tokyo next month specifically to lobby ANA for NRT/DEN service.

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_19100940

SJC has its work cut out for it, cuz here we can see what competition is out there.  

[Edited 2011-10-28 23:33:20]

User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2868 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4011 times:

I think AA could have made SJC-NRT work had they had the right aircraft, instead of making regular OAK fuel up stops.


Rule number One, NEVER underestimate the other guys greed
25 jonathanxxxx : Ehh, I think the 9 cities will be more along these lines: SJC SAN DEN IAH SEA MIA? (Would have a virtual monopoly practically on MIA-Asia and can be
26 commavia : AA has the perfect aircraft right now - they are just too conservative to deploy it, and would have a challenge scheduling it. A 767-300ER would be a
27 Post contains images SANFan : I like to think you are in the neighborhood here, jonathan'. I would love to see the latest stat's showing Asian-U.S. pax volume (for currently unser
28 BoeingGuy : You're about 15 years too late. AA only made OAK fuel stops the first year or so around 1991 with the DC-10. SJC extended the runways and AA eventual
29 izbtmnhd : ANA isn't going to serve DEN unless the flight can produce enough high-yield traffic. I don't see where that would come from. There's always UA but th
30 BoeingGuy : I would certainly appreciate ANA starting SJC-NRT service to my former hometown to replace the dearly departed AA 128/129. However, I'd much rather se
31 wedgetail737 : I had heard the fuel stops at OAK occurred when SJC-NRT first started using a DC-10-30, due to a short runway. I also heard that when the MD-11's cam
32 BoeingGuy : AA discontinued it five years ago. They also now have the Joint-Venture with JAL. I'm not holding my breath that AA/JL would reinstate it, but I supp
33 timz : In a thread a while back somebody said the DC-10 stopped at OAK on a total of two trips.
34 Post contains images Osprey88 : All of this does lead me to believe SJC does indeed have its work cut out for it if its going to attract NH service. Given the sheer dollar amount of
35 flylku : I was just pointing out the fact regarding BA and IAD-BWI. I has not judging your post. In fact, I found it thought provoking. I am sure there are do
36 point2point : After thinking about this, it leads me to wonder if the trip to Tokyo by the mayor et al, is just going to result in even more $$$ to be offered. Aft
37 Post contains images Jacobin777 : Or the right cost structure..
38 briguy1974 : I have always questioned why one of the airlines currently serving SFO have not moved service to SJC. I look at DL operating the 767-300. SFO is domin
39 LAXintl : They don't. ANA-UA are one airline effective April 2011 across the Pacific from US mainland to Japan and a few beyond markets. Revenues and cost are
40 slcdeltarumd11 : Denver should be a prime canadite but remember how long and how hard Denver has tried to land this flight this is far from new If ANA thought it was p
41 SANFan : Maybe I've missed it in the many threads about this topic but can anyone fill us in on what SJC's Intl Travel Incentive program includes? I appreciate
42 Post contains images point2point : And I would think that this upcoming trip to Tokyo is just to do that. And the small contingency that's along with the mayor probably has the bags fu
43 Post contains links Hamlet69 : Actually, SEA service was brought up with the delivery of the first 787. There were several quotes I remember reading. The only one I can currently f
44 Post contains links psa188 : It's listed on the SJC website here: "Mineta San Jose International Airport is committed to successful partnerships with its airlines that benefit Si
45 SANFan : Ah, thank you psa'. Interesting reading (especially the "Focus City" Package but that has nothing to do with long-haul intercontinental flying.) Thei
46 STT757 : Nine candidate cities (speculation): DEN, SEA, PDX. SAN, LAS, EWR, IAH, PHL, MCO
47 slcdeltarumd11 : of all the airports i would think bos, phl, and sjc would have the businiesses the most likely to pony up significant money in sunsidies, revenue gura
48 izbtmnhd : What would suggest Denver is a 'prime candidate'? Service to a 98% domestic UA hub that may be in jeopardy itself? Again, I don't see it. Neither, it
49 mogandoCI : SJC - makes sense after ANA goes double daily at SFO. HND should be reserved for SFO not SJC. PHL - definitely a yes EWR/IAH - unless the market is t
50 mah4546 : ANA is in active discussions with MIA, which would happen well before MCO. But I suspect JAL/AA will fill the void, not ANA.
51 BoeingGuy : What about the JAL/AA joint venture resuming SEA-NRT or SJC-NRT before ANA? Either even a remote possibility? Like I said, I have the utmost respect
52 slcdeltarumd11 : I agree with you 100% Read all of what i wrote i don't think DEN is gonna happen unless DEN really digs deep and gets businesses too even then i doub
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