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JetBlue Converts Pre-existing A320 To A321  
User currently offlineJuan911411 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 19 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 15915 times:

http://www.airlinesanddestinations.c...s-finalizes-order-for-40-a320neos/

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/jet...-for-40-airbus-a320neos-2011-10-27

So what's you guess, where will this new A321s go??? we all know that they've talk about Hawaii for a long time, but will this mean the Europe is within their future???

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3395 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 15711 times:

Quoting Juan911411 (Thread starter):
we all know that they've talk about Hawaii for a long time, but will this mean the Europe is within their future???

These are 321-"classic" and their range is to limited for that


User currently offlinejetfuel From Australia, joined Jan 2005, 2225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 15707 times:

Quoting Juan911411 (Thread starter):
we all know that they've talk about Hawaii for a long time, but will this mean the Europe is within their future???

The A321 has LESS range than the A320. The A321 will be used largely on existing routes that require higher pax loads



Where's the passion gone out of the airline industry? The smell of jetfuel and the romance of taking a flight....
User currently offlineJuan911411 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 19 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 15501 times:

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 1):
These are 321-"classic" and their range is to limited for that

actually according to the first article these are for the A321 with sharklet wingtips.

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 2):
The A321 has LESS range than the A320. The A321 will be used largely on existing routes that require higher pax loads

With a range of up to 3200nm, they can clearly make it to Europe and Hawaii, I am just Dreaming guys.... Lets just try to discuss of what possibilities this could open up for them. I would like to see more South American service, that competes with NK and AA.


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10046 posts, RR: 96
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 15482 times:
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Quoting Someone83 (Reply 1):
These are 321-"classic" and their range is to limited for that

These will be "classic with sharklets" though. Which of course doesn't make them any more TATL capable  
Quoting jetfuel (Reply 2):
The A321 has LESS range than the A320

The Airbus ACAP's don't seem to reflect this - they seem to put the latest versions of both pretty much on a par

Rgds


User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 15193 times:

Quoting Juan911411 (Thread starter):
So what's you guess, where will this new A321s go???

From the rumor mill, the west coast of the US will see a few of them, due to slot restrictions, etc...That way, B6 can get more pax out there, even with limited flights. I'm also pretty sure they'll be used on some of the NYC-Caribbean flights (JFK-SJU/SDQ/KIN/MBJ) during peak travel seasons for added capacity. As far as the northeast to Florida, the jury's still out on that. Perhaps the 321s performing transcons will free up some 320s to add frequency on the Florida routes...



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineSomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3395 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 15190 times:

Quoting Juan911411 (Reply 3):
actually according to the first article these are for the A321 with sharklet wingtips.

Their still classics even though the sharklets (why the not call in winglets as this is what it is) gives them a little extra range

Quoting Juan911411 (Reply 3):
With a range of up to 3200nm, they can clearly make it to Europe and Hawaii

3200nm is a very teoretical range, and with resonable load they cannot do Transatlantic runs......whatever your dream might be  


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7195 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 15105 times:

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 1):
These are 321-"classic" and their range is to limited for that
Quoting jetfuel (Reply 2):
The A321 has LESS range than the A320. The A321 will be used largely on existing routes that require higher pax loads

They almost have to fly NE to Florida. Their range is too poor for transcons. They could fly to the DR potentially. Not sure if NE to SJU is too lengthy. I'm surprised they'd want another fleet with the 321NEO coming.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8386 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 14946 times:

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 6):
3200nm is a very teoretical range, and with resonable load they cannot do Transatlantic runs......whatever your dream might be

Or Hawaii.

Quoting jetfuel (Reply 2):
The A321 has LESS range than the A320. The A321 will be used largely on existing routes that require higher pax loads

  


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9652 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14552 times:

The article is not only about A321s, but converting A320s to A320NEOs.

[Edited 2011-10-28 09:15:38]


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14494 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 9):
The article is not about A321s, but converting A320s to A320NEOs.

From the second article:
"It said JetBlue has also decided to convert 30 pre-existing orders for A320s to larger A321 models." Now, I might be a little behind the curve here, but I always thought all this was old news, unless these 30 orders are in addition to the A321s (non-NEO) that B6 already placed an order for...any takers?



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4264 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14301 times:

Quoting Juan911411 (Reply 3):
With a range of up to 3200nm, they can clearly make it to Europe and Hawaii, I am just Dreaming guys.... Lets just try to discuss of what possibilities this could open up for them. I would like to see more South American service, that competes with NK and AA.

With all due respect, you are dreaming if you think the A321 can make it to Hawaii or Europe from the respective North American mainland coasts. As others have said, it is not possible and the advertised 3,200 mile range is pretty much like saying my car can get 34 miles per gallon on the highway but I only get about 28-29 in mixed driving and averaging 34 mpg, even on longer highway drivesw, is not realistic. So unless Jetblue wants its passengers to swim part of the way, Europe and Hawaii are not in the cards with their current and future fleet. I guess the jury is still out on the A320NEO?!

I agree with what others have speculated. The larger aircraft will most likely be strategically deployed on new or existing routes that are slot restricted or where the extra seats would provide more lift. I think routes from the NE to Florida, Puerto Rico and the DR seem like the best bet.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15745 posts, RR: 27
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 14006 times:

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 1):
These are 321-"classic" and their range is to limited for that

I think they will be on the bread and butter routes to Florida and the sharklets will give them the range they need to add more capacity on transcon flights.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2807 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 13864 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
They almost have to fly NE to Florida. Their range is too poor for transcons.

And yet US flies the non-sharklet version of the 321 from PHL to the West coast on a daily basis without issues...



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlineAussieItaliano From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13683 times:

With NYC airports being slot controlled, it's a good way to increase capacity on key routes from NYC without having to add additional flights.

In addition, it would be possible to maintain current capacity on key routes while reducing the number of flights, thereby freeing up slots for new service.

The move makes total sense to me, especially on routes such as JFK-FLL. Switch out some of those 320s for 321s ASAP.



LHR - The Capital of the World
User currently onlinecslusarc From Canada, joined May 2005, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13440 times:

If B6 is serious about increasing capacity from slot controlled airports like LGA and JFK why don't they upgrade most transcontinental flying (to/from LAX and SFO) to widebodies like the A330. I'm sure that B6 could configure a A330-300 with 350-400 seats similar to most regional flying in the Middle and Far East.


--cslusarc from YWG
User currently offlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12343 times:

Quoting cslusarc (Reply 15):
If B6 is serious about increasing capacity from slot controlled airports like LGA and JFK why don't they upgrade most transcontinental flying (to/from LAX and SFO) to widebodies like the A330. I'm sure that B6 could configure a A330-300 with 350-400 seats similar to most regional flying in the Middle and Far East.

That would be some serious overkill. Changing from an A320 with 150 pax to an A321 with ~180 pax is more realistic. They would get slaughtered if they ran 400 seats on transcons



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User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8386 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12128 times:

Quoting UALWN (Reply 13):
And yet US flies the non-sharklet version of the 321 from PHL to the West coast on a daily basis without issues...

The problem is West Coast to PHL in the Winter. I suspect they have fewer such routes in Winter.


User currently onlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2807 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 11577 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 17):
The problem is West Coast to PHL in the Winter. I suspect they have fewer such routes in Winter.

Wouldn't PHL-SFO be more problematic than the return flight? Anyway, I've done that a number of times with US's 321s without trouble.



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlineHomsAR From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 10956 times:

Quoting Juan911411 (Thread starter):
JetBlue Converts Pre-existing A320 To A321

Anyone else see the thread title and think they were getting a chainsaw and splicing a fuselage section into an existing bird?



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlineflightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 557 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10249 times:

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 6):

because Blended Winglets is a trademark of Boeing.



Commercial Pilot- SEL, MEL, Instrument
User currently offlineHighflier92660 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10226 times:

Take a 321, re-wing it with a slightly larger higher aspect ratio wing plus sharklets, beef up the landing gear, add considerably more fuel capacity, put a new generation engine of around 38,000 lb. thrust with a dazzling specific fuel consumption and (dare I say it) you have a Boeing 757 replacement.  

Until then I wouldn't get too over-ambitious about the range or the anticipated routes.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25442 posts, RR: 49
Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10138 times:

You guys realize this news is old right. Was announced back in June.

JetBlue Orders A320NEO And Changes 30 To A321 (by Blueman87 Jun 21 2011 in Civil Aviation)

The only new thing is at their earning call this week B6 said the contracts were signed.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4020 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 10042 times:
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Quoting airbazar (Reply 17):

The problem is West Coast to PHL in the Winter. I suspect they have fewer such routes in Winter.

Wrong direction. It would be flying westbound from PHL-SFO/SEA/PDX/LAX/SAN.... US now flies the newer version of the A321, A321-200 with the new improved engines which allows them to fly these transcons much much better now and with markedly increased reliability rate over the older model A321 they still have. These birds have also allowed US to increase capacity out of PHX with the A321-200s since field performance has also markedly been improved with the new engines.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8386 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9492 times:

Quoting UALWN (Reply 18):
Wouldn't PHL-SFO be more problematic than the return flight? Anyway, I've done that a number of times with US's 321s without trouble.

You're right, duh! Long day   


25 NASCARAirforce : I am betting we will see them at MCO MCO-SJU MCO-SDQ MCO-BOG All these flights fill the A320, even in the "slow season" Probably will see them MCO-JFK
26 astuteman : Thanks for this, Iaca773. To me there's always been a discrepancy between the R/P charts currently shown for the A321 (recognising that real-world pa
27 Post contains links Jack : According to the latest filing here (sorry I don't know how to link directly to the pdf), they still have 21oeo A320 for 2012 (7), 2013 (3), 2016 (3),
28 N757ST : The 321 will have roughly 100-200mi greater range then our classic 320s. They will be equiped with an aux tank. Transcons will not be an issue.
29 something : Sharklets are supposed to decrease fuel consumption by 3.5%, which in the case of the A321-200 should translate into a 150nm range gain. Would that m
30 Post contains images yellowtail : Because the flight is always empty Just kidding
31 flyiguy : Not true...when I worked at US, the flights from PHL to SFO and LAX frequently had tech stops in LAS and PHX for fuel do to heavy head winds and that
32 Post contains images EddieDude : I did!
33 laca773 : You're welcome astuteman. You actually educated me about the improved performance of the A321-200 and I greatly appreciate that. Like you, I'm always
34 FutureUScapt : US' 321s currently have 16F. Pre-merger, the east 321s were outfitted with 26F, perhaps that's what you meant?
35 Post contains images KELPkid : Sounds like someone might want to improve the CASM/RASM situation of their fleet a bit In these days of high fuel costs, I can see why. Also, it seems
36 NASBWI : From what I recall, they did...and they were some of the high 500s/low -600s tail numbers (I believe all of the 'plaid' tails and a few of the early
37 jfk777 : AN A330 for JB would require too much time to turn around. The day of the wide-body from New York to Florida died with Eastern. A320 are what JB does
38 Flighty : Not true at all. This is an (only partially true) legend about US A321 which are 15 years older than the aircraft being discussed here... As others h
39 Post contains images something : Those AA A300 are not widebodies? As for JetBlue using A330s, I don't think it's necessarily the turn-around times that keep them from buying them bu
40 flyiguy : yes it is...But even with more in First they still did tech stops. Now with less in first and more in coach the tech stops will increase.
41 UALWN : I was replying to somebody stating that 321 could not be used in transcon routes. Well, that's not true. Even the old US 321s are used on PHL-SFO. Th
42 wn676 : There are virtually no differences in performance between the PMUS A321s and those that have been delivered since 2008. The IAE-powered aircraft can
43 maxpower1954 : It's a total legend on A-net that has irritated me for years. I've been flying the 321 transcon from PHL and CLT since 2003 and have NEVER made a sto
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