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Alaska Flights To HNL Are They Full?  
User currently offlineGizmoNC From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 309 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10911 times:

Since AS is using 737-800 west coast to Hawaii, are these flights going out full or weight restricted for the distance. Could anyone who works at AS give an insight on load factors? I myself would rather go that far on an airline that flies twin aisle instead of a small single aisle aircraft.

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10847 times:

Quoting GizmoNC (Thread starter):
Since AS is using 737-800 west coast to Hawaii, are these flights going out full or weight restricted for the distance. Could anyone who works at AS give an insight on load factors? I myself would rather go that far on an airline that flies twin aisle instead of a small single aisle aircraft.

They are nearly completely full and the only time they may suffer weight restrictions is in Dec-February or so if the Pineapple Express winds are kicking up. Flights from the Bay Area though don't get weight restricted. Only SEA/BLI and maybe PDX. But this is a TINY amount of the total flights. So small that it's not significant.

The year ending July 2011, all flights on AS to HNL and back averaged a 93% load factor. Compare that to the systemwide load factor during that same time of around 85%.

I've flown to Hawaii about 5 times since we started service and it's not as bad as you think. It's like taking a flight from SEA-BOS or SEA-MIA. It just happens to be over water. Onboard we also serve free Mai Tais an hour before landing in Hawaii.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5634 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10674 times:

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 1):
I've flown to Hawaii about 5 times since we started service and it's not as bad as you think.

Life is good.   My wife left a job of 28 years in March and she will need to be getting out into the workforce soon. I suggested getting on at an airline so that we can still take vacations. It's a great benefit.

My in-laws have flown them a few times to Hawaii - as you say, not much different than any other longer flight. The one time we've been to Hawaii was on a NW 747-200, and after the initial joy out of being on that big widebody, you realize just how many people are on the thing. Truth be told, I would almost prefer to fly an E190 there than anything else.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5472 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10634 times:

Quoting GizmoNC (Thread starter):
Could anyone who works at AS give an insight on load factors?

Hat' has directly answered your question very well but perhaps just thinking about AS's amazing expansion to the Islands over the last few years should provide you lots of insight about how successful they are. Do you really think they would still be continuing such growth by flying money-losing, half-full airplanes on long-haul routes?

Quoting GizmoNC (Thread starter):
I myself would rather go that far on an airline that flies twin aisle instead of a small single aisle aircraft.

Not like this discussion hasn't occurred about every month or 2 for the last 10 years (going back to the Aloha-days...) I'm not aware that anyone is holding a gun to the heads of all these passengers who fly single-aisle a/c across the Atlantic and half-way across the Pacific... on a WHOLE bunch of airlines btw! You are certainly entitled to your preferences but do we really need to open up this debate again?

bb


User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 992 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 10600 times:

As mentioned earlier, the flights are always quite full. I worked a SEA-HNL-SEA trip this week...we were 100% full over and had I think two seats empty on the way back. Doesn't get much fuller than that. Loads are so good that we'll be upping SEA-HNL to three flights daily come Dec 22nd-Mar 9th.

I've flown many times as a passenger and it's true...it feels no different than a trans-con flight. In fact there's more of an intimacy with the 737 over a wide-body. You don't feel so much like you're in this sea of bodies surrounding you.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 2):
My wife left a job of 28 years in March and she will need to be getting out into the workforce soon. I suggested getting on at an airline so that we can still take vacations. It's a great benefit.

Tell your wife we're hiring! Looking at 200+ new Flight Attendants for 2012 and they love to hire people with a little 'seasoning'. You don't have to be 21 to be a brand-new stewardess anymore!


User currently offlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1564 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10434 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 3):
Hat' has directly answered your question very well but perhaps just thinking about AS's amazing expansion to the Islands over the last few years should provide you lots of insight about how successful they are. Do you really think they would still be continuing such growth by flying money-losing, half-full airplanes on long-haul routes?

Sadly Hawaiian Airlines missed this window of opportunity unwilling to consider a smaller gage a/c to run these "direct to the island you want to go to" flights; but the "jury is still out" on if their expansion to the East (Japan) has been more profitable than what they passed on wiht more direct flights to the mainland


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5929 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10401 times:
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Quoting hatbutton (Reply 1):
They are nearly completely full and the only time they may suffer weight restrictions is in Dec-February or so if the Pineapple Express winds are kicking up. Flights from the Bay Area though don't get weight restricted. Only SEA/BLI and maybe PDX. But this is a TINY amount of the total flights. So small that it's not significant.

I've flown AS to other island other than HNL, but, yes, the Pineapple Express has a tendency to dampen flights to Hawaii sometimes. In the past, I've heard AS prefers to do a fuel stop at OAK than go out weight-restricted. One flight from PDX-OGG was almost 7 hours long due to high jetstream winds from the Hawaii direction.

I kind of wonder if AS is going toward competing more against the incumbants, i.e. HA, in the future. The only route I've seen HA go after AS is on the OAK-OGG route.


User currently offlineheathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 979 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10260 times:

It's definitely a popular route. I am seeing availability disappear daily. Very popular connections from YEG/YYC/YLW/YVR/YYJ/BLI for Canadians! I have a lot of clients who prefer to return in the day not on a red-eye, and AS normally ends up being their best bet.

User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3160 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10187 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 6):
The only route I've seen HA go after AS is on the OAK-OGG route.

HA is also starting SJC-OGG. That will be interesting to watch.

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 1):
Onboard we also serve free Mai Tais an hour before landing in Hawaii.

Do you also do this in Coach?


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13649 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10130 times:
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Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 6):
I've heard AS prefers to do a fuel stop at OAK than go out weight-restricted.

AS prefers to not have to do a fuel stop at all, but again, it's only necessary on a handful of days out of a year when faced with extreme headwinds.

Based on that, and the fact that you cannot predict specifically which days those will be, it's not a viable option to intentionally weight-restrict each flight every single day and pass up all that revenue based on the mere POSSIBILITY you might eventually have a fuel stop one day based on excessive headwinds.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 10102 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 8):
Do you also do this in Coach?

Yep. Free Mai Tais and a bag of macadamia nuts to get the pre-Hawaii party started  


User currently offlineintsim From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 97 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days ago) and read 9911 times:

I am excited to fly AS to the islands (SEA-KOA) in March. They retimed the return flight so you no longer would need to overnight in SEA. This is also a benefit because you can fly home during the day versus red eyes and two connections. This was so smart.

Plus their Mileage Credit card is such a great deal right now. We were able to use the companion fare and buy the middle seat for the little one on the SEA-KOA-SEA legs. I am excited to use Alaska more, the options out of SEA seem ever growing.

Now I know a PTV topic came up recently....I wish Alaska would reconsider. When my father-in-law took my nieces and nephew to MCO they got rerouted onto Frontier DEN-MCO. The flight attendants went through the aisle and swiped the PTVs for all the kids onboard. They loved the whole Frontier experience and would fly Frontier again if it ever becomes available in MSO.

Jeff


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5929 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days ago) and read 9904 times:
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Quoting hatbutton (Reply 10):
Yep. Free Mai Tais and a bag of macadamia nuts to get the pre-Hawaii party started

I second that. It's a very nice touch on a long flight. A lot of people here don't like flying long distances on a narrowbody less than a 757. The 738's are pretty nice on AS. I haven't flown any other 738's over water.

I still think AS could do a tag-on in Hawaii to ITO from OGG. There are not that many intra-island flights between OGG-ITO. But we all know AS has larger opportunities elsewhere.

Another opportunity would be tag on GEG and/or BOI to some of their early SEA/PDX departures to Hawaii and evening arrivals to SEA/PDX.

With as many new airplanes AS will be receiving over the next year, it'll be interesting to see what AS comes up with in terms with route enhancements or new routes beyond MCI.

Is AS going to 2X daily SEA-OGG again this winter?

HA has a good product as well. The only beef I have with HA is that you cannot select your seats. I don't know if that has changed over the last few years though. Assigned seating on their intra-island 717's is nice.


User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2135 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (2 years 12 months 3 days ago) and read 9831 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 12):
The 738's are pretty nice on AS.

It would be nice if their F seats weren't so damn hard.


User currently offlinealoha73g From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2365 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9747 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 12):
The only beef I have with HA is that you cannot select your seats.

HA has always had assigned seats on mainland flights and has had them on interisland for over 10 years. Seats assignments are available on their website at booking and can be changed online also.

-Aloha!



Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
User currently offlineha763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3663 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9716 times:
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Quoting n471wn (Reply 5):

Sadly Hawaiian Airlines missed this window of opportunity unwilling to consider a smaller gage a/c to run these "direct to the island you want to go to" flights; but the "jury is still out" on if their expansion to the East (Japan) has been more profitable than what they passed on wiht more direct flights to the mainland

Just give it up on this. HA passed on doing mainland-neighbor islands other than Maui flights 10 years ago. They also were not planning to do it either when Aloha and ATA went out of business in 2008.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 12):
The only beef I have with HA is that you cannot select your seats. I don't know if that has changed over the last few years though. Assigned seating on their intra-island 717's is nice.

The only time you cannot select your seats is if you make your booking when the flight is roughly 75-80% sold. What would be nice is if we could see the seat availability when choosing the flight instead of after putting in all your personal information.


User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9496 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 12):
Is AS going to 2X daily SEA-OGG again this winter?

I believe it does yeah. And then in the spring goes down to maybe 18 times a week or something like that?


User currently offlinen471wn From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1564 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 9452 times:
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Quoting ha763 (Reply 15):
Just give it up on this. HA passed on doing mainland-neighbor islands other than Maui flights 10 years ago. They also were not planning to do it either when Aloha and ATA went out of business in 2008.

I know that (of course). The point I am making (since the point you are trying to make is not clear) is that the jury is still out on whether or not this will turn out to be the right strategic decison----as your prior posts prove, you will always defend HA regardless of what they do strategically---I am neither defending or dismissing them----MY POINT was that we will all need to wait to see if they were right to go East and not invest in another gage a/c for direct flights to the Mainland.....let's shelve this debate for at least 5 years....


User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2559 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9185 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 4):
I've flown many times as a passenger and it's true...it feels no different than a trans-con flight. In fact there's more of an intimacy with the 737 over a wide-body. You don't feel so much like you're in this sea of bodies surrounding you.

I have to voice a dissenting opinion here. I prefer the twin-aisle HA aircraft from SEA to Hawaii and here's a few reasons.
You are never more than one seat from the aisle
If there are service carts in one aisle you can cross over at some point to the other side if you need to get up and move about
More lavs, the queue to use one is shorter in most instances.
There's a nearly zero chance of a tech stop regardless of prevailing winds/load factor.
Just my   


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5929 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9112 times:
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Quoting ER757 (Reply 18):
I have to voice a dissenting opinion here. I prefer the twin-aisle HA aircraft from SEA to Hawaii and here's a few reasons.
You are never more than one seat from the aisle
If there are service carts in one aisle you can cross over at some point to the other side if you need to get up and move about
More lavs, the queue to use one is shorter in most instances.
There's a nearly zero chance of a tech stop regardless of prevailing winds/load factor.
Just my

Those are good points...and you get a free meal (pay up...and you get a better, larger meal). Some things you can't do on HA is pre-reserve your seats online and all of the HA flights arrive in HI all at once so baggage and obtaining a rental car is bit more arduous. Does HA serve free tropical cocktails?

Call me biased because I won't deny it. For me, Alaska's loyalty program is a bit more practical to me.


User currently offlineJMM99 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9084 times:

Strategic (VC) based in BNE now have 2 x A332's a week BNE/HNL loaded from mid-DEC & 3 x 332's MEL/HNL also from mid-DEC.

They are rebranding as Air Australia in a few weeks & going low cost, ie. no food or drinks or checked luggage included in cheapest fares.

Apparently quite a few Australians are buying VC to HNL & then some other carrier to get to LAX, SFO, SEA, YVR or Bellingham, as a cheap way of getting to places like Canada.

VC have a sale ending at end of month for departures from 6JAN for only AUD$349 BNE or MEL/HNL one way.

Seem to be plenty of chep flights HNL/BELLINGHAM + people get to have a stopover in Hawaii which is not all bad.


User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1973 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9085 times:

This thread has deviated from AS and Hawaii... so I'll try and wrangle it back!

As a WN employee, I am very very impressed with AS Hawaii service. I was just in KOA and saw an AS -800 land. It reminded me of their network of direct Mainland - KOA/LIH/OGG flights. It all seems like a great operation.

Anyone know what's in the belly of their Hawaii flights? Mostly bags or freight?



My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 992 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9042 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 21):
Anyone know what's in the belly of their Hawaii flights? Mostly bags or freight?

Pretty much just customer's luggage. The flights are so full that there really isn't the room for much freight. I'd think that there would a great market for fresh seafood as freight in both directions and I imagine HA is better able to take advantage of that than AS.


User currently offlineaa61hvy From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 13977 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8944 times:

Flew OAK-KOA on a Saturday and it was packed. Flew KOA-OAK on a Wednesday and it was also packed. This was in January.


Go big or go home
User currently offlineha763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3663 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (2 years 12 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 8150 times:
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Quoting n471wn (Reply 17):
I know that (of course). The point I am making (since the point you are trying to make is not clear) is that the jury is still out on whether or not this will turn out to be the right strategic decison----as your prior posts prove, you will always defend HA regardless of what they do strategically---I am neither defending or dismissing them----MY POINT was that we will all need to wait to see if they were right to go East and not invest in another gage a/c for direct flights to the Mainland.....let's shelve this debate for at least 5 years....

You have been dismissing HA's strategy. Every thread about AS or HA you bring up "HA missing window of opportunity." What is unclear about my point that HA has decided against adding Mainland-LIH/KOA/ITO flights multiple times in the past? I have not defended HA's strategy, I have only tried to educate you on what has happened. I have never said HA's current strategy is the correct one, but it is the one that they have chosen and has been their goal since the 1980's.


25 fishmeal : I've never flown to Hawaii on a single isle twin. Just the standard 3 and 4 engine planes, starting with the L-749 Connie. That flight took all night,
26 JMM99 : Forgot about alliances, wouldn't AS be best talking & tieing up something with VC ex HNL before VC ties up with another carrier like Allegiant who
27 YXXMIKE : Does anybody know how the loads out of BLI are doing? Does AS have any more plans to expand out of BLI and continue to pick up as many border clients
28 PlanesNTrains : IINM, doesn't Alaska have some sort of codeshare with Qantas? If so, it would probably make more sense to route those passengers over LAX and leave t
29 HiFlyerAS : AS works very closely with QF...they won't be adding any new partners from down-under. QF code-shares with AS, putting a QF flight number on AS fligh
30 hatbutton : I would highly doubt Allegiant would codeshare with anyone. They won't even transfer bags to another flight on their own airline should you want to t
31 leothedog : We've flown from SMF (Sacramento) to HGG (Maui) quite a few times on a 737, first with Aloha (RIP) and then Alaska. In fact, we're booked in June for
32 Post contains images Tomassjc : Not this week though Until around 2005 QF had reps at AS counters SEA and PDX who would assist connecting customers with check in and documentation.
33 Post contains images BoeingGuy : Hi Tom, oh really? I'll bet I can guess what you are hinting at. HA gets a little more competition, huh? Are there more SJC flights on the horizon (e
34 Post contains images SANFan : I for one am certainly interpreting Reply #32 as more "Chester-with-the-lei" flying to be announced soon... and I know which west coast city I'd like
35 JAAlbert : Will AS take a 50 lawyer as a flight attendant? I can provide legal advice while serving peanuts as an added onboard service to passengers! I have to
36 Post contains images HiFlyerAS : They've hired ex-lawyers, doctors, dentists, pilots and homemakers. We don't serve peanuts anymore due to food allergy concerns so you won't have an
37 BoeingGuy : You already have new HNL service. Maybe we'll see SAN-KOA and SAN-LIH. ANA will start SAN-NRT with the 787 while we're at it. (Joking aside, none of
38 wedgetail737 : AS has to put their new airplanes somewhere. Any chance that AS will include 739-ER's on any of the Hawaiian flights? AS and HA will be competing out
39 BoeingGuy : SJC-OGG is another of very many examples where AA cuts a route, but then someone else flies it and it does great for them. No wonder why AA is in suc
40 wedgetail737 : I don't doubt you that AA has made some awful choices, but it has given other carriers new opportunities at AA's expense. By the way, it appears that
41 Viscount724 : Not necessarily correct. AA probably determined that the aircraft that was operating that route could be used more profitably on another route with a
42 yeelep : Latest I heard, they are going to be configured for, but not ETOPS equipped. Who know's what will happen by the time they begin deliveries. What they
43 HiFlyerAS : Heard this week that the -900ER will NOT be ETOPS. Not to say they couldn't be certified as such someday. The plan is to use them to increase capacity
44 wedgetail737 : Is Alaska's plan to keep the older, original -900's when the -900ER's come online in earnest? The -900ER's will definitely add even more opportunity
45 ha763 : Unless AS is getting their 739ERs with the extra fuel tanks, it would run into the same weight restriction problems CO had when they tried using thei
46 EA CO AS : Yes, they'll remain in the fleet.
47 Post contains images HALFA : That's news to me. I arrange my neighbor's HA travel itineraries all the time when they fly HA from HNL to LAS and I have always been able to pre-res
48 HiFlyerAS : I'm sure there's an extra cost to this but I think it's nice that someone still offers free food in coach. I'm curious...what exactly IS this free fo
49 wedgetail737 : Aloha, HALFA! I'm glad HA allows for pre-reserved seating online now. The last time I tried booking (and maybe it's with vacation packages), I was no
50 Post contains links ha763 : This is the current offering: http://www.hawaiianair.com/Services/in-flight-dining/ I'm glad that it is listed on the website again. For a while, the
51 JMM99 : Not talking about codesharing with VC, but rather Allegiant giving VC a block of seats at a certain price. Many people are flying VC to HNL & doi
52 wedgetail737 : As mentioned before, AS already has codesharing and connectivity with both QF (on-strike) and DL out of LAX. What kind of surprises me is that per V
53 HiFlyerAS : Interesting! I'm sure AS is happy to take their money but it's pretty shocking that they don't even list another Virgin company's flights. I know tha
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