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Is Qantas Finished? (not QF Group)  
User currently offlineJMM99 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 20500 times:

Talk yesterday of 50% of QF staff gone in 12 months, if unions don't wake up.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/n...ction/story-e6freooo-1226179998049

Is 50%, then surely the rest couldn't keep it going with QF's high costs.

Maybe it will all be Jetstar sooner than we think.

58 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineirshava From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 20222 times:

I honestly doubt that national carrier may go bust - it doesn't look good - surely someone will help Qantas float again.

However, someone on another thread mentioned that Jetstar does get more attention from Joyce.... (which is kinda true)



“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
User currently offlineJMM99 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 20176 times:

Quoting irshava (Reply 1):
I honestly doubt that national carrier

It's not the national carrier, it's just Qantas.


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5627 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 20051 times:

Quoting JMM99 (Thread starter):
Is 50%, then surely the rest couldn't keep it going with QF's high costs

If it's 50% gone it doesn't have high costs. The 50% left (IF it happens) would have to remain to satisfy the Sale of Qantas Act.
While I don't think it'll happen, they could be reduced to just SYD/MEL-SIN-LHR (LHR based crew), SYD/MEL-LAX & SYD-JNB, SYD-SCL (flying A380s). Everything else goes RedQ/JQ.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 20007 times:

Quoting JMM99 (Reply 2):
It's not the national carrier, it's just Qantas.

QF is Australia's national flag carrying airline... That's a fact...

Anyway, I do agree that if 50% is gone then it's basically the end of QF as we know it... BUT I don't think it will get to that point -- Fair Work Australia and the Federal Government will get involved long before the situation gets to that point. The economic blow would be enormous...


User currently offlinen839mh From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 369 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 19761 times:

How troubling it is when one thinks just how weak this makes Oneworld.

Qantas, financial trouble and questionable future....
American, financial trouble and questionable future...
JAL, just out of Bankruptcy and still questionable future....

Lots of major decisions forthcoming for this group!



Solodude!
User currently offlineNTLDaz From Australia, joined Aug 2011, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 19753 times:

Quoting n839mh (Reply 5):
Qantas, financial trouble and questionable future....

I wouldn't be suggesting Qantas has a questionable future. They have announced a decent profit. At the moment there is argy bargy going on between mgt and unions wihich is undoubtedly having short term financial pain but the future is not near as bleak as some would make out.


User currently offlineKfly From Australia, joined May 2004, 195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 19552 times:

Quoting NTLDaz (Reply 6):
I wouldn't be suggesting Qantas has a questionable future.

Well... QF just grounded her entire Domestic and International fleet with immediate effect.... interesting times ahead.


K



Fly! My Pretties
User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5186 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 19272 times:

Quoting NTLDaz (Reply 6):
I wouldn't be suggesting Qantas has a questionable future. They have announced a decent profit. At the moment there is argy bargy going on between mgt and unions wihich is undoubtedly having short term financial pain but the future is not near as bleak as some would make out.

The profits were FF and domestic.... now grounding your whole fleet is pretty bleak and will force pax onto other carriers - ie Virgin...and when they fly on those carriers they may actually realise the DJ product has improved and may switch... that would effect FF loyalty and domesti pax numbers which is the profitable part of the business....

Very damaging to the brand.


User currently offlineSpringbok747 From Australia, joined Nov 2004, 4387 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 19218 times:

Dammit..I'm booked to fly to ADL tomorrow....looks like that wont happen. @#$%


אני תומך בישראל
User currently offlineBeakerLTN From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2009, 292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 19027 times:

First report on BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-15504838



300/319/320/321/330/732/733/734/73G/738/744/772/77W/146/EMB135/EMB145
User currently offlinevaus77w From Australia, joined Aug 2011, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 18370 times:

Quoting BeakerLTN (Reply 10):
Dammit..I'm booked to fly to ADL tomorrow....looks like that wont happen. @#$%

You might be OK, looks like the grounding starts Monday 8pm.

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/qantas-...ds-all-flights-20111029-1mpao.html


User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8548 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 18328 times:
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Quoting vaus77w (Reply 11):
You might be OK, looks like the grounding starts Monday 8pm.

My understanding is that the grounding is immediate, but the lockout of staff starts Monday 8pm AEST.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 17872 times:

Yeah, I agree QF is the national airline, and I doubt they'll go down the way of Ansett. After all, didn't (to some extent) QF cause Ansett's downfall?

These labor disputes at QF, would it be fair to say that AA union-members will do the same if a compromise isn't met?



Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlineSASDC8 From Norway, joined Mar 2006, 752 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 17816 times:
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Quoting vaus77w (Reply 11):
You might be OK, looks like the grounding starts Monday 8pm.

As I understand it the lock out will start monday, but the grounding will start today?

Will the Australian government intervine?



2-3-2 is NOT a premium configuration
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25071 posts, RR: 85
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 17760 times:
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Quoting vaus77w (Reply 11):
You might be OK, looks like the grounding starts Monday 8pm.

The lock-out starts on Monday. The aircraft are already grounded, or headed home to be grounded.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineNTLDaz From Australia, joined Aug 2011, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 17410 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 8):
Very damaging to the brand.

Yes very damaging to the brand but who is causing the damage ? That is for others to decide. If anyone seriously thinks Qantas is dead or it's future is suspect my opinion is they are deluded. Qantas will survive - maybe differently but there will be a Qantas. Not everyone wants to fly Jetstar ( and I don't have a prob with Jetstar - I'm in Newcastle and that is our best option ).


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 16791 times:

Alan Joyce needs to be sacked (and the whole board). He is deliberately trying to ruin QF I'm sure of it now. So he and his buddies can sell off Jetstar (made up of Qantas assets) and then turn around to the government with a skeleton QF and offer it take it or leave it styles.


56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5186 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 16647 times:

Quoting SASDC8 (Reply 14):

As I understand it the lock out will start monday, but the grounding will start today?

The grounding is effective immediately - with a lockout of staff from Monday.

One of the hardest things for Virgin Australia to get people to switch would be to get them onboard to see the product - QF are just handing them this opportunity.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6413 posts, RR: 38
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 16379 times:

Quoting NTLDaz (Reply 16):
Yes very damaging to the brand but who is causing the damage ?

What I quote from Alan Joyce: "They are trashing our strategy and our brand" - http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...-grounds-fleet-20111029-1mpgc.html

Their strategy was shot to begin with (oh, let's go and give everything to Jetstar) and that has tarnished their brand. This is just adding to the problems. But it goes to show where the root of the problem lies.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinehaynflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 146 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 16042 times:

Qantas has excellent unions who have managed to negotiate their members out of jobs and paychecks.

Of course they are not the first union to do so and won't be the last.

I have read that the Qantas senior leadership will not be getting paid until this is resolved. I'm wondering if the unions' senior leaders will do the same for the sake of their membership?



I wish the best for all involved.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts."
User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 15264 times:

Quoting irshava (Reply 1):

I honestly doubt that national carrier may go bust - it doesn't look good - surely someone will help Qantas float again.

Just like Swissair, Sabena or Pan Am? Just because an airline is perceived as a 'national carrier' does not mean it is immune from insolvency and liquidation.

The concept of 'national carrier' is pretty outdated in today's industry.


User currently offlinejamake1 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 1005 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 15264 times:

Quoting n839mh (Reply 5):
How troubling it is when one thinks just how weak this makes Oneworld.

Qantas, financial trouble and questionable future....
American, financial trouble and questionable future...
JAL, just out of Bankruptcy and still questionable future....

Lots of major decisions forthcoming for this group!

Not to mention, the late Mexicana...



United's B747-400. "She's a a cruel lover."
User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 15096 times:

Quoting haynflyer (Reply 20):
I have read that the Qantas senior leadership will not be getting paid until this is resolved.

Do you have a source for this?

Quoting haynflyer (Reply 20):
I'm wondering if the unions' senior leaders will do the same for the sake of their membership?

Indeed it is common practice among Trade Unions that during a dispute, leadership receive either no income (or if strike pay is being paid from union reserves) the same strike pay as members. I cannot comment on this particular union however.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3694 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 14832 times:

Quoting n839mh (Reply 5):
Qantas, financial trouble and questionable future....
American, financial trouble and questionable future...
JAL, just out of Bankruptcy and still questionable future....

Lots of major decisions forthcoming for this group!

Pretty ironic, isn't it? It hasn't been so long since Star was constantly mocked in this forum for being the alliance of the bankrupt, while oneworld was the alliance of the world class, financially robust, well managed airlines. What goes around comes around...


25 Post contains links planesailing : It is available quite publically across many news websites, Googling it brings it straight up. "6.26pm: And the damage control begins...a Qantas spok
26 Zkpilot : Well AJ can just live off his other $4m or so in the mean time... Its a bit different for workers living paycheque to paycheque...
27 Bthebest : Maybe a merger in IAG?
28 bmacleod : Can't imagine QF being gone completely. If it did, VA (V-Australia) and DJ would have quite a gap to fill but they are capable of doing so.[Edited 201
29 Post contains images F9Animal : I am really worried that this could turn into the next Eastern Airlines scenario. I pray this does not happen, but to shut down like this, is really a
30 sccutler : Nope. If QF goes away, he will have killed a carrier; Lorenzo saved Continental.
31 Squid : My feeling is that if Qantas survives, it will be a skeleton operation serving a few long-haul major cities such as LAX and LHR with a wide-body fleet
32 lows : Just from casual, dispassionate observation, I get the feeling that is what Alan Joyce wants.
33 esdex : Completely agree - the A380 fleet (staff already on different arrangements) will be the only QF aircraft with everything else JQ, until JQ reaches a
34 Post contains images 747400sp : As an QF fan, this is now good news! I was so hoping that I see an QF 787 on you tube or at LAX. If QF goes belly up, going to Imperial Hill at night,
35 RyanairGuru : A week ago I was a sworn Virgin hater. Now I have three booked flights on them. As this dragged on I was becoming more and more disillusioned with QF
36 gemuser : Internationally I think you could be right, just SYD/MEL-SIN-LHR, SYD/MEL-LAX & SYD-DFW, SYD-JNB, SYD-SCL, all A380s. Except not everything else
37 Lufthansa : This won't go on long. My prediction. The government will have to step in and force them all to accept a 3% pay rise. But the unions won't get what th
38 jetfuel : I think the board plan is the maintain a QF domestic airline plus as you say a skeleton international operation. I agree maybe LAX, LHR and perhaps 1
39 infinit : Yeah, there definitely will still be QF. No I don't think we'll see the day SQ would buy over QF's international operations as much as they would wan
40 flyorski : How much power over this does she even have? .. Its not very much.
41 kiwiinoz : I have still not seen a compelling reason or rebuttal against AJs strategy, which is broadly offshoring and a shifting of capacity and focus to jetsta
42 Post contains images mariner : Best comments I've read in any of the threads. mariner
43 NTLDaz : Funnily enough an awful lot has changed since I posted.
44 Squid : In a way, I agree with you. Most people who know a bit about my posting history here know I'm not the most pro-union person. With that said, I do bel
45 Post contains images QFFlyer : ..of course the unions are totally blameless.
46 bill142 : Nope. Qantas sale act prevents that. Qantas aren't going out of business any time soon. I case anyone hadn't noticed, they're still making a profit a
47 EDICHC : Perhaps not in the short term, but how much damage to the company's brand image remains to be seen with it's subsequent medium to long term effects o
48 Zkpilot : The unions aren't trying to turn QF into JQ. The unions aren't in bed with private equity to lease aircraft from Geoff Dixons company back pocket sty
49 RyanairGuru : Practically limitless... Fair Work Australia Act Section 431 Ministerial declaration terminating industrial action (1) The Minister may make a declar
50 JMM99 : It's just an Australian airline, nothing more, nothing less. You make it sound like Australia can't survive without Qantas, which of course it can &a
51 JMM99 : Very rough times ahead for Qantas. No one will book beyond the 21 day limit as strikes could be back on then + DJ has ramped up services & they c
52 qf002 : Your interpretation, certainly not mine. I've flown QF internationally three times in the past 10 years, all with my father who was already booked on
53 JMM99 : Actually QF is made up of public assets from day sof Australian Airlines. QF has one chance & one chance only. Get rid of their overpaid staff (D
54 qfa787380 : I wonder how this will affect QF's relations with thew Federal Gov't? What will happen now if SQ decide to apply again for SYD/MEL-LAX rights, that ha
55 mariner : I think that, if anything, the reverse is true. Quite large numbers of people are calling for the government to offer more protection to Qantas, beca
56 JMM99 : Think you mean QF unions. There's another possibility. With the cost of fuel going up & up, 1 stops are actually probably more viable, in that a
57 Docpepz : Erm isn't that the case now already?!?!?!?!
58 qfa787380 : But I suspect relations b/w QF and the Gov't are at a very low ebb. Possibly the lowest ever. No doubt SQ and others will be sniffing around and cont
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