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AA Cancels JFK-BUD For Winter 2011/12  
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4792 posts, RR: 25
Posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8450 times:
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Looks like AA has now zeroed out JFK-BUD from Dec 1 on; nonstop service will resume on April 3 2012. Probably due to a combination of reasons: the pilot shortage situation and a re-assessment of winter transatlantic capacity (and pruning the marginal routes).

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 729 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8430 times:

Was it supposed to be year-round? I was under the impression it was a seasonal route...


SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32183 posts, RR: 72
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 8378 times:

Quoting FSDan (Reply 1):

Was it supposed to be year-round? I was under the impression it was a seasonal route...


It was going to be seasonal, then became year-round, now seasonal again. Thought at least this makes sense as a seasonal station, unlike Rome.



a.
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4256 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 8097 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 2):
Thought at least this makes sense as a seasonal station, unlike Rome.

I don't agree. It would be a great place to connect to their partner Malev's flights to destinations in eastern Europe without having to deal with LHR.

Too bad AA hasn't been able to build BUD into an eastern European gateway.


User currently offlinekl911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5085 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7662 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 3):
I don't agree. It would be a great place to connect to their partner Malev's flights to destinations in eastern Europe without having to deal with LHR.

True, but make that Eastern and S. Eastern. Skopje, Larnaca, Thessaloniki etc etc.



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineEIRules From Ireland, joined Aug 2007, 701 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7459 times:

Just another European route AA have struggled to make an impact on while CO and DL continue to grow and strengthen. Lets be honest, outside of LHR, AA are now well behind their US rivals


Next Flights: EI DUB-LHR A320, BA LHR-SFO B744, UA SFO-LAS A320, BA LAS-LHR B744, EI LHR-DUB A320
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2048 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7455 times:

A four month seasonal cancellation is a lot less than for for other seasonal routes. Hopefully it will go year round in the next year or so as AA and Malev can build up the flight.


Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3176 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7393 times:

"Just another European route AA have struggled to make an impact on while CO and DL continue to grow and strengthen. Lets be honest, outside of LHR, AA are now well behind their US rivals"

I'm no AA fan, but DL this winter to Europe is a mess dude.

Everything has gone seasonal. Heck, they're not even flying to FCO! T3 at JFK is awfully quiet these days . . . and it's only October. Ironically, the int'l airlines are bringing in more 380s than ever.


User currently offlineluckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7307 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 7):
Heck, they're not even flying to FCO!

It is flown daily from Atlanta per their winter timetable.


User currently offlineirshava From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7238 times:

Quoting FSDan (Reply 1):

Yes it was supposed to be a daily-nonstop-year round service.

Its really sad because now there is no direct winter flight to BUD.
The reason is rather obvious - the demand for flights between BUD and JFK isn't overwhelming.

Hopefully this route survives.



“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1590 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 7173 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 7):
Heck, they're not even flying to FCO!
Quoting luckyone (Reply 8):
It is flown daily from Atlanta per their winter timetable.

Plus the 2 daily Alitalia operated JFK-FCO flights are part of the DL/AF/KL/AZ joint venture (I believe), so Delta still has plenty of service to FCO.

In fact a quick glance at the summer schedule I'm not sure they are cutting capacity on JFK-FCO at all, the winter schedule is removing the smallest aircraft (DL767) from the schedule which was only 4x and making the other two flights daily which were only 4x (AZ772) and 3x (AZ332). It appears weekly departures are incresaing as well as seats.


User currently offlinerojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2431 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6940 times:

First it was down to 4 x week during the winter and now they decide to cancel it. What a mess...

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11121 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6828 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 2):
It was going to be seasonal, then became year-round, now seasonal again. Thought at least this makes sense as a seasonal station, unlike Rome.

Yeah - it is pretty pathetic that AA can't make FCO work year-round at least as 4-5x weekly 767 from JFK.

Quoting N62NA (Reply 3):
I don't agree. It would be a great place to connect to their partner Malev's flights to destinations in eastern Europe without having to deal with LHR.

Too bad AA hasn't been able to build BUD into an eastern European gateway.

BUD vs LHR as a viable Eastern Europe hub is largely irrelevant. First, LHR isn't much of an Eastern Europe hub as it is unless you're going to one of the main markets (PRG/BUD/OTP/KBP, etc.). BA doesn't have much presence in that region to begin with. Second, BUD isn't much of a hub for the JFK flight - there are some connections, but two-way connections are minimal the way that AA's flight, and the BUD bank schedule, are timed. So even if AA tried, it would be difficult to turn BUD into much of an Eastern European gateway - FRA, MUC and ZRH will always dominate in that regard.


User currently offlineqqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2247 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6829 times:

Hmmm... I posted this very news yesterday afternoon, but alas srbmod decided to take it down because I didn't provide a link. This is what I wrote in reply:

"I don't understand this deletion. Not everything can be linked with a source, and I didn't report this as rumor. As a known employee of AA, I am the source and therefore no link should be necessary. Besides, airlines aren't in the habit of putting out press releases when service is cancelled. FYI, the same thread has been posted by another user without any links. Are you going to take that thread down as well? Or are you going to let it be and allow the thread to inform the members of this forum, the entire purpose of this site? It's deletions and similar actions like this that has left long time forum members like myself contributing less and less to what once was a great forum for aviation enthusiasts. Sadly that is no more. In the future, I'll refrain from posting at all, as others have, as in the end it's a waste of my time. I don't post for the sake of posting, and when something I take the time to write is removed, it's frustrating and infuriating, especially since those deletions are unilateral, and what one moderator may have an issue with, another doesn't. Perhaps going forward, and what could return this forum to the status it once had, is that no single moderator can act on their own. Any possible deletions should be fronted to at least three moderators, and if there's consensus, then so be it. I'd appreciate a reply. Thank you."

I know this post will be deleted because we're not allowed to speak out against the moderators, but for the moment it remains it will be my form of 'civil disobediance.' At any rate, I think it's a good suggestion.

As for the cancellation of service, our base management (who I did site as the source of the info in the previous thread) said it is currently scheduled to return in April, although they made it very clear there is no guarantee, meaning it *might* return in April. For the employees it's just one more blow.



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineISTGRU From Australia, joined Jun 2011, 42 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6533 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 12):
Second, BUD isn't much of a hub for the JFK flight - there are some connections, but two-way connections are minimal the way that AA's flight, and the BUD bank schedule, are timed. So even if AA tried, it would be difficult to turn BUD into much of an Eastern European gateway - FRA, MUC and ZRH will always dominate in that regard.

Agreed. MA doesn't have an the network or frequencies or assist much. For one example, the AA JFK - BUD flight connected to the MA KBP flight, however leaving KBP you would have to overnight in BUD. MA very often flies to destinations only once per day, making two way connections difficult


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32183 posts, RR: 72
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6008 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 3):
I don't agree. It would be a great place to connect to their partner Malev's flights to destinations in eastern Europe without having to deal with LHR.

And AA/MA have done exactly that. But traffic between the United States and Eastern Europe during the winter months is non-existent outside of Moscow and Eastern Europe-originating vacation traffic to Florida. Very difficult market in the winter, even in a good economy.

Quoting EIRules (Reply 5):

Just another European route AA have struggled to make an impact on while CO and DL continue to grow and strengthen. Lets be honest, outside of LHR, AA are now well behind their US rivals

While I don't deny AA has a serious problem in Europe, let's not make up lies. All U.S. airlines are shrinking their European operations. AA is the only airline actually growing in Europe right now, though barely. Delta alone has either discontinued or suspended about one dozen trans-Atlantic routes this winter.



a.
User currently offlineirshava From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5759 times:

In my honest opinion I think that these joint flights are really just to help MA sort of restart its BUD-JFK flights even though it can't do it by itself.

I believe MA has one B767-200ER (HA-LHB) and even that is missing an engine.

+ The might have wanted to seize the opportunity of having year-round flights since DL backed out and flies only in the summer.



“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16945 posts, RR: 48
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5497 times:

AA is cutting the worst flying as well as stuff that can be easily reaccommodated for pilot hours. JFKBUD/PLS/PUJ are the former; JFKLHR (hopefully) the latter.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinemiaami From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 506 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5369 times:

With another 767 route cancelled, maybe they can get the 767-300s back to better reliablity. With fewer trips they should have more down time for maint. The 767-300 has been going tech quite often lately.

User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2088 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5257 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 15):
All U.S. airlines are shrinking their European operations.

Agreed entirely. Every US carrier is in a mess with their Europe flights. Better to leverage alliances/JV with European carriers and ride this out until conditions are riper.

Esp with AA. They have way bigger fish to fry at the moment to get their sh*t in-house.



next flights: msp-phx-slc, msp-mdw, ord-sju, sju-dfw-ord, msp-dfw, dfw-phl, phl-msp, jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg
User currently offlinekrisyyz From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5128 times:

Quoting irshava (Reply 16):
In my honest opinion I think that these joint flights are really just to help MA sort of restart its BUD-JFK flights even though it can't do it by itself.

I believe MA has one B767-200ER (HA-LHB) and even that is missing an engine.

+ The might have wanted to seize the opportunity of having year-round flights since DL backed out and flies only in the summer.

I would love to see that happen, but I highly doubt it. LHB has been sitting at BUD for years now and there is no way MA would spend the money to get it operational again, not to mention that it makes no sense to operate a fleet of 1 B762. I really can’t see MA re-start their long-haul ops any time soon. There was an interview with one of the MA executives last week and he said that MA isn’t even considering restarting their long-haul ops, they need to be in the black again with a solid chance of growth internationally before they look at that long-haul routes. MA was due to receive some SSJs, but that hasn’t even happened yet.

I’m not sure what AA’s plans are. But MA did codeshare on their ZRH-JFK flights last year. It would be nice to see MA send their own metal to LHR but BA seems to be doing well on that route.

KrisYYZ


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3945 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5118 times:
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Quoting N62NA (Reply 3):

I don't agree. It would be a great place to connect to their partner Malev's flights to destinations in eastern Europe without having to deal with LHR.

Too bad AA hasn't been able to build BUD into an eastern European gateway.

Why is it so shocking JFK-BUD is a seasonal route? It really surprises me the way some of you think. BUD is a small and unique market. It does well in the Spring and Summer seasons and after that, it drops off fast. DL flew it for many years as a regular route and they too went seasonal which made sense because of rising fuel costs the economy and the traditional drop off in demand in the Fall & Winter Seasons.

I for one am not surprised AA went seasonal with JFK-BUD and the rest of you shouldn't be either. AA's costs are out of control. Fuel is still very very expensive and there's not one airline out there right now that has the right size a/c to operate JFK-BUD during the off season anymore (762ER). The 763ER is too much a/c during the off season even at a reduced schedule and the 75W can't make it.

For those of you thinking this route was going to help take some of the pressure off of LHR as a transit point, there again, what are you thinking? When it comes down to the bottom line, MA is really a small regional airline now. They no longer operate any longhaul international routes. They have parked or sold their 762ERs. MA is not going to grow much at all in the future either unless BA/IB go in and buy them outright and make an attempt to strengthen this small Eastern European airline into something much more substantial. It's hard to have a decent hub/transit point when the country of origin is also very small. Another airline very similar to MA is LO though they are still operating a few longhauls with the tiny 763ER fleet (the 762ERs are gone) and are just a bit bigger in the EU than Malev, though MA operated a more efficient shorthaul fleet compared to LO.


User currently offlineSKGSJULAX From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 84 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4556 times:
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I wonder why this route was cut.

I have taken this flight three times in the last two-and-a-half months (trying to get to SKG from SJU) and the airplane was always full. And BUD is a pleasure of an airport to connect through.

Too bad! Now back to having to take the stupid bus from T3 to T5 at LHR. I guess I should write to AA.



Omnium curiositatum explorator
User currently offlineIADLHR From Italy, joined Apr 2005, 721 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3929 times:

Quoting EIRules (Reply 5):
Just another European route AA have struggled to make an impact on while CO and DL continue to grow and strengthen. Lets be honest, outside of LHR, AA are now well behind their US rivals

I absolutely agree. I think part,, maybe, major part, of the problem is that for so long there was no openskies at LHR. Hence AA/BA could not get ATI. In the mean time UA/LH and DL/AF alreready had ATI and were growing their alliances, while BA was tryinmg to keep LHR closed. Just an observation I have.

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 13):
Hmmm... I posted this very news yesterday afternoon, but alas srbmod decided to take it down because I didn't provide a link. This is what I wrote in reply:

"I don't understand this deletion. Not everything can be linked with a source, and I didn't report this as rumor. As a known employee of AA, I am the source and therefore no link should be necessary. Besides, airlines aren't in the habit of putting out press releases when service is cancelled. FYI, the same thread has been posted by another user without any links. Are you going to take that thread down as well? Or are you going to let it be and allow the thread to inform the members of this forum, the entire purpose of this site? It's deletions and similar actions like this that has left long time forum members like myself contributing less and less to what once was a great forum for aviation enthusiasts. Sadly that is no more. In the future, I'll refrain from posting at all, as others have, as in the end it's a waste of my time. I don't post for the sake of posting, and when something I take the time to write is removed, it's frustrating and infuriating, especially since those deletions are unilateral, and what one moderator may have an issue with, another doesn't. Perhaps going forward, and what could return this forum to the status it once had, is that no single moderator can act on their own. Any possible deletions should be fronted to at least three moderators, and if there's consensus, then so be it. I'd appreciate a reply. Thank you."

I know this post will be deleted because we're not allowed to speak out against the moderators, but for the moment it remains it will be my form of 'civil disobediance.' At any rate, I think it's a good suggestion.

As for the cancellation of service, our base management (who I did site as the source of the info in the previous thread) said it is currently scheduled to return in April, although they made it very clear there is no guarantee, meaning it *might* return in April. For the employees it's just one more blow.

I was one of about 2 people who posted a response , yesterday,to your topic, before it was deleted. I was wondering what caused it to be deleted. Thank you for sharing your response today.

I still have some questions as a result of the yesterdays thread being deleted. I said yesterday, there are many people who arent surprised about the JFK-BUD flight. It was more, or less, expected because of what is going on with the AA flights exUSA-Europe, mainly from ORD.

My question from yesterday is, if pilot reitrement issues are, partyl responsible, for JFK-BUD to be canceled, how do we know it wont be a problem when it comes time to restart the flight in March, 2012?

The other comment was an observation. I guess it is safe to say that even holiday bookings were not enough to keep the flight going to early Jan. 2012.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 19):
Agreed entirely. Every US carrier is in a mess with their Europe flights. Better to leverage alliances/JV with European carriers and ride this out until conditions are riper.

I agree 100%. However, at some point, some one has to see that the US carriers are severely lacking in service all the way around compared to European carriers. In the mean time, the US carriers have not figured that out.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22309 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3905 times:

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 23):
In the mean time, the US carriers have not figured that out.

I have some experiences with AF and DL longhauls in the same trip (eastbound on one, westbound on the other). I'll be the first to admit that DL's hard product on the 763s is miserably bad, but DL is upgrading that. Comparing the 777 or the new 763 with AF, how, exactly, is DL "severely lacking in service all the way around" compared with AF?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 IADLHR : For starters, most of my exUSA-Europe is from IAD. I am an elite flyer with both DL and UA. When the UA and CO mileage programs are combined, I will
26 Cubsrule : None of this is at all responsive to my question. If the answer is "DL flight attendants have attitude," you need to fly AF more if you've never enco
27 flyguy89 : For the hard product this is true, US carriers are finally picking up the slack and upgrading their cabins, but the soft product in comparison to Eur
28 United1 : Year to date traffic numbers show UA, DL, US and AA have all grown their European/Atlantic operations this year (by both RSM and ASMs.) Where are you
29 mah4546 : Because AA will have likely filled in the backlog by then. W10 versus W11 weekly available seats. Though with the latest load, AA might be going into
30 Cubsrule : I can't remember the last time I was shouted at by an airline employee who didn't work for AF. Their CDG ground staff are atrocious, much worse than
31 usdcaguy : I have also flown via PRG on DL/OK to points in Eastern Europe and have noticed schedules to places like LCA/BEY are much better timed than via CDG/A
32 Post contains images Cubsrule : The other trouble is that many of the eastern European destinations with higher demand from the States (KRK is probably a good example) are well plug
33 lows : FRA, MUC, and, let's not forget VIE are all very good for eastern connections and for connectivity to W. Europe and TATL, naturally.
34 Cubsrule : Indeed, though VIE doesn't have as many connections to the US as MUC and (particularly) FRA.
35 lows : Just OS to IAD and JFK. Also to YYZ. I think we used to have DL or AA service. It would be nice to have a CO762 from EWR but that will, for obvious r
36 Cubsrule : DL in the not so distant past, I think. OS also served ORD for a while.
37 luckyone : Both were dropped after the financial problems in 2008. I flew both. Delta's route in July of 07, and Austrian's route in January of 08.
38 lows : If I recall correctly, didn't OS and DL have an interline or some other form of alliance? Obviously before OS was rescued by LH. I vaguely recall the
39 luckyone : The service cancelled in 2008 was from ATL. It is possible they had service to Vienna from JFK (or ATL for that matter) in the 1990's or earlier in t
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