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Iran Studying Using Qatari AC For Internal Flights  
User currently offlineqantas747flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (2 years 9 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 11077 times:

According to news reports, Iran Air are considering using Qatari (presumably Qatar Airways) aircraft to operate domestic flights within Iran. Managing Director of Iran Air, Farhad Parvaresh, has recently been quoted as saying that the "Issue is now under study" and has cited "Cabotage law" as a means for Iran to do this. If this is indeed the case then Iran finally appears to have found a novel way of circumventing US sanctions, which restricts Iran from acquiring new aircraft from Boeing and Airbus to replace their aging fleet.

It certainly will be interesting to see how this develops, and I for one hope that for the passengers sake this plan can be realized as it is bound to dramatically improve Iran's questionable air safety standards. Any thoughts?

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9007271302

71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemalioil From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2010, 124 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 10923 times:

A lot of people from the GCC would tell you that Qatar's relationship with Iran keeps all our governments somewhat uneasy, but this at least would be a positive development.

Iran's aviation safety record must improve, and it is very hard to improve anything with their current access to spare parts/aircraft. If QR (or Qatar for that matter) can give the Iranian public the aircraft necessary to drastically improve the ailing safety standards, then irrespective of political stance it would be the right thing to do.

The Iranian people should never pay for their government's mistakes.



Flights Booked: BAH-DOH-EDI-LGW-JER-LGW-EDI-DOH-BAH-LHR-EDI-LHR-EDI-LHR-BAH-DXB-HKG-SIN-HKG-DXB-BAH-LHR-EDI
User currently offline5MillionMiler From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10746 times:

Interesting approach. Sounds like a good plan which makes sense.

Have to give credit to engineers at Iran Air (and aviation support in Iran) though -- they have made due for decades with very little access to spare parts and kept an old fleet flying. From ancient Boeings to F4s.

I do not agree with the politics there, but they have so many talented, smart people in the country.


User currently offlineqantas747flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 10546 times:

Quoting malioil (Reply 1):
Iran's aviation safety record must improve, and it is very hard to improve anything with their current access to spare parts/aircraft.

Unfortunately this is largely the result of sanctions facing the country. Speaking of sanctions, it makes you wonder if the US will attempt to block the Qatar government or Qatar Airways from going ahead with their plan with the Iranians, especially since Qatar Airways has code-share agreements with several US airlines including US Airways and United, which could potentially turn this into a politically sensitive venture for the Qatari's.

More info on the following article:
http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsCont...domestic-routes-in-sanctionsh.aspx

[Edited 2011-10-30 06:32:46]

User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1705 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10280 times:
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Given how tightly the US is trying to enforce these sanctions, I can see the US warning QR (and their government) that QR could lose its us landing/overfly rights and could force the suspension of any code sharing QR does with any U.S. based airlines and could even threaten to sanction any other airline which code shares/allies with QR with sanctions as well.

The law is very broadly based and is intended to be comprehensive. I can't see QR taking that chance.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24863 posts, RR: 46
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10251 times:

If such sanction busting concepts come to fruition, QR and any other supporting organisations should definitely be added to the list.
As is I know several Armenian firms that lease planes to Iran have felt the squeeze as their banking transactions have been restricted.

But I doubt Qatar, or any other nation is dumb enough to risk so much global activity for a little added revenue from Iran.

Quoting malioil (Reply 1):
The Iranian people should never pay for their government's mistakes.

Sure they should.

They sleep in the bed they make.

They are free form the government of their choice, and need to deal with the good or bad results.

And for those that say they don't have a choice, sure they do. We've already seen them quite adeptly change their system already once.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 10220 times:

I hope its comes to fruition against all odds.

User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1808 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 10148 times:

Well, they have 200+ plane orders. The old A330's and A320s have to go somewhere!


لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3000 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9735 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5):
Sure they should.

They sleep in the bed they make.

They are free form the government of their choice, and need to deal with the good or bad results.

And for those that say they don't have a choice, sure they do. We've already seen them quite adeptly change their system already once.

When given the choice of replacing what you thought was an oppressive government with a new form of government in the hopes that the new government (be it a theocracy, a council, a military-run government, etc) will bring better times, you vote yes a thousand times. Little did Iranians know back in 1979 that their government would slowly turn against them, in the pretense that power is for the people and guided by a cleric, when the real situation is that the power is for the clerics.

IMO, airlines should not be subject to sanctions and an airline is a dire situation as Iran Air could really use an overhaul of their equipment. The only negative aspect of this: the 707s might be grounded since there would be no need to have old tankers flying.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24863 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9481 times:

No need to get into deep political discussions here, but I'd like to correct something.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 8):
Little did Iranians know back in 1979 that their government would slowly turn against them, in the pretense that power is for the people and guided by a cleric, when the real situation is that the power is for the clerics.

Leading up to 1979, the Iranian people knew what ideology and power was behind the power to topple the Shah. Its not like Imam Khomeini was unknown or was being hidden under a rock. His broadcast tirades, lectures and writings against the Shah were well followed by many for years leading up to Shah's toppling.

To follow this up, the Iranian people repeatedly in subsequent years further voted on referendums on subjects like eliminate the Monarchy and replace it with an Islamic government, and then eventually voted on creation of a new
constitution which placed much of the power directly under clerical governance.

As someone that has lived in the region, have plenty of Iranian contacts, I don't buy the theory that the Iranian people were duped into anything. They very compliantly changed their governance one step after another. Now they live with it.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 8):
IMO, airlines should not be subject to sanctions

An airline is an arm and instrument of their governments. Look at Pan Am, and how it was referred to as " America's Chosen Instrument."

This concept goes back to the 1920s, and the establishment of the most basic air-service agreement between nations, and how air-service played an important role in representing countries and their interest both political and economic.

Aviation and politics are intertwined, and act side by side for both good, and for bad as some might see it.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9504 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9341 times:

I do not see a problem if Iran opens its domestic market to foreign carriers operating on their own accord. However if Iran wet leases aircraft then it might be a problem since the latest sanctions are also financially against Iran air since it is a government business.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineHiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9341 times:

If I understand this correctly, Iran are considering offering cabotage to the Qataris. So QR wouldn't be leasing out the planes, but actually operate the flights.
I don't see any issue with this. They (and other airlines) already operate flights to Iran, they'll just be getting some extra revenue by carrying some domestic traffic.


User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1705 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 9217 times:
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Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 11):
I don't see any issue with this. They (and other airlines) already operate flights to Iran, they'll just be getting some extra revenue by carrying some domestic traffic.

Flying to Iran is one thing, operating flights on behalf of Iran Air or code sharing/wet leasing/operating agreement for domestic flights will be a problem.


User currently offlineMarkam From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 441 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8214 times:

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 4):
Given how tightly the US is trying to enforce these sanctions, I can see the US warning QR (and their government) that QR could lose its us landing/overfly rights and could force the suspension of any code sharing QR does with any U.S. based airlines and could even threaten to sanction any other airline which code shares/allies with QR with sanctions as well.

The law is very broadly based and is intended to be comprehensive. I can't see QR taking that chance.

Mind that Qatar is no no-one these days... they have 15% of the world's proven natural gas reserves, and have an immense weight in the international LNG market. Any commercial sanctions against them would likely be seen with not very good eyes by many big players in the international stage, including many U.S. corporations with interests in the country and a big lobbying crew in Washington. So, sanctions against Qatar... I-do-not-think-so. What is likely is that, if it comes to that, the U.S. government will talk with them behind the scenes to negotiate some kind of agreement to avoid them doing the cabotage in Iran, so that no conflict arises publicly in the first place.

In three words: "Gas Saudi Arabia"  

[Edited 2011-10-30 16:48:00]

User currently offlineyak42 From Ireland, joined Oct 2000, 801 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8145 times:

I think it would not be a huge concession if it happened (isnt cabotage already widespread in the EU, Australasia and Chile?) and would definately improve both the market and safety standards in the Iranian domestic market. I think they should open it to more than just Qatar though. Qatar only has one airline, and what if it doesnt choose to enter the market. They should open the market to maybe, Armenia, Tajikistan and Oman too. They should deregulate the ticket pricing structure while they are at it.

User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7370 times:

If 49% state owned LH can sell their A300s to Iran Air and Qatar is hosting, among others, Canadian Forces after they got kicked out of Dubai, you can bet your a%% QR can offer domestic flights in Iran.

How would such an arrangement even strengthen Iran? It would put many Iranians out of work, deprive them of a golden stream of forex and put their own flights under much bigger scrutiny compared to what is possible with their own planes.

Holding the travelling public hostage of your own political problems is only inciting the hatred against America. It won't weaken the Iranian government, the Iranian cleric, nor would I strenghten the Iranian dissidents.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlineirelayer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1073 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6796 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Leading up to 1979, the Iranian people knew what ideology and power was behind the power to topple the Shah. Its not like Imam Khomeini was unknown or was being hidden under a rock. His broadcast tirades, lectures and writings against the Shah were well followed by many for years leading up to Shah's toppling.

To follow this up, the Iranian people repeatedly in subsequent years further voted on referendums on subjects like eliminate the Monarchy and replace it with an Islamic government, and then eventually voted on creation of a new
constitution which placed much of the power directly under clerical governance.

As someone that has lived in the region, have plenty of Iranian contacts, I don't buy the theory that the Iranian people were duped into anything. They very compliantly changed their governance one step after another. Now they live with it.

Heh. I love how you say "no need to get into deep political discussions" and then you start one. You don't have to buy any theories. It's well known that the revolution started as an anti-Monarchy movement involving an alliance of secularists, intellectuals and Ayatollahs (and even Communists!) etc and was very skillfully hijacked by Ayatollah Khomeini and his cronies. The system of government you see today is NOT the will of the majority of the Iranian people. You have the benefit of hindsight. The people who hated the Shah, his secret police, and his oppressive regime didn't.

More to point, I think it's ridiculous that we don't sell used aircraft to Iran at somewhat of a markup. They'd buy it, with cash, and everyone would be better off for it. It'd be a GREAT way of easing some tension too. At this point, I don't see harm in it really. Or maybe an officially sanctioned leasing arrangement with somewhat more restrictive terms? I really don't see why the commercial aviation sector has to suffer like this any longer. Maybe there was a point to it all before, but I think it's long forgotten and this is just a punitive measure that really doesn't hurt the government of Iran as much as they think it does.

-IR


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24863 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6716 times:

Quoting irelayer (Reply 16):
Heh. I love how you say "no need to get into deep political discussions" and then you start one.

I made a correction to previous poster. And I'll do the same with your comments.

Back in 1977, 1978 and 1979 living in neighboring Turkey, we well knew that if the Shah fell, Iran would see some form of theocratic government. Imam Khomeini whose lectures were happily smuggled into Iran and widely listened to very openly spoke about topics such as a Koranic state. Matter of fact based on Shia history, a man from Qom would arrive to lead the people to on a Jihad, which is what the revolution against the Shah became.

So the Iranian people should not have been surprised when they voted and supported one initiative after another, from abolishing the monarchy, to forming a Islamic State, to drafting a new constitution which gave high powers to clerical body. They did this all very willingly over some years.

Quoting irelayer (Reply 16):
More to point, I think it's ridiculous that we don't sell used aircraft to Iran at somewhat of a markup. They'd buy it, with cash, and everyone would be better off for it. It'd be a GREAT way of easing some tension too. At this point, I don't see harm in it really. Or maybe an officially sanctioned leasing arrangement with somewhat more restrictive terms? I really don't see why the commercial aviation sector has to suffer like this any longer. Maybe there was a point to it all before, but I think it's long forgotten and this is just a punitive measure that really doesn't hurt the government of Iran as much as they think it does.

We don't sell them aircraft as they do things like this with them.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Saeed Ezadi



Note the inflight refuelling capability on the ex TWA 747.

Commercial aircraft clearly have dual uses, whether formally modified for military usage or at the very least can be used as a troop carriers.

Not something we want to aid with.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9166 posts, RR: 29
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 6667 times:

Quoting something (Reply 15):
If 49% state owned LH can sell their A300s to Iran Air and Qatar is hosting, among others, Canadian Forces after they got kicked out of Dubai, you can bet your a%% QR can offer domestic flights in Iran.

sorry but LH is 100 % privately owned, all shares are traded, the exception is that they are name shares and 50% + one share must be owned by German nationals. LH did not sell A300s to Iran either, they sold to companies who then sold to Iran, that is a difference.

As to the question, if QR flies domestic Iranian services trhey will be hoit by sanctions, I doubt that QR will enter this venture, it would severely jeopardize their relations to the US and to Israel as well.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineqantas747flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6606 times:

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 11):
If I understand this correctly, Iran are considering offering cabotage to the Qataris. So QR wouldn't be leasing out the planes, but actually operate the flights.
I don't see any issue with this.

According to the following article on Gulf News: http://gulfnews.com/business/aviatio...ly-iran-s-domestic-routes-1.921005

"The deal would see Qatar Airways operate a code-share arrangement with Iranian airlines to comply with laws excluding non-Iranian companies from domestic routes, the CEO of flag-carrier Iran Air, Farhad Parvaresh, said."

If Qatar Airways agrees to operate domestic flights in Iran under a code-share agreement with sanctioned airlines such as Iran Air and Mahan Air, would they themselves not become the target of US sanctions? Qatar Airways CEO, Akbar Al-baker is renowned for being a strong willed man, but is he seriously prepared to go head to head with the US government over this?

According to Gulf News, in Iran, "Around 15 serious air accidents over the past decade have killed more than 900 people" Given Iran's shockingly poor air safety record, I really hope they can pull this off for the sake of passenger safety, but somehow I have the feeling that the US will find a spanner to throw in the works and Al-baker will be forced to back down. Time will tell I guess...


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6478 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 18):
their relations to the US and to Israel as well.

Didnt they break off whatever links with Israel after the Gaza attack or Lebanon war, and do they care about Israel? I really, really hope more Arab and Islamic and non-Islamic regional airlines from CIS do the cabotage thing with Iran, come what may.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5405 posts, RR: 30
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6126 times:

What is sometimes overlooked is that Iran is not Arabia and its heritage is Persian, not Arabic. Iran is as different from Arabia as England is from France or Italy.

Different cultures, different histories, different languages similar but different religious beliefs.

I spent a couple of months in Iran and even though I had worked across the Persian Gulf from Iran for years, I was still more influenced by the media image of Iran than I knew since that image is almost nothing like what I experienced.

Tehran is a bustling metropolis with the worst traffic on the planet. Ahwaz, which is where I spent the most time, is a 30 minute drive from the Iraqi border and one of the most heavily bombarded cities during the Iran-Iraq war and is one of the centers of the Iranian petroleum industry.

For the most part, and I can only speak for those I met, like most places, the government doesn't affect the day to day lives of the citizens...but it is cyclical. Sometimes, the government decides that it doesn't like the hippy haircuts and orders brushcuts for all men. Women must have their hair covered but governmental whim can change wardrobe requirements without notice.

I worked with a lady who was something of a rebel in that she would take off her head scarf at work...which is not just immoral, it's illegal. It is an offense which could land her in jail.

As it turns out, one old, ornery, disgruntled man was offended by her position and went behind her back to the morality police regarding her shocking scarfless behavior. Only by virtue of her value to the company, they spoke on her behalf and she was allowed to keep her job but her most important task of going to the immigration department and getting visas for foreign workers, was taken away and she was forbidden to question the decision or even enter the building, upon pain of prosecution.

I am Canadian but internationally, I'm usually mistaken for American. Even though there are huge billboards across the city proclaiming death to the great satan and death to America, I was always, and I mean without exception, treated politely and well...in fact in a friendly manner.

The level of education is at least as high as any western country and there are many women professionals including doctors, engineers and lawyers.

I could go on but I'll save you from that. To get back to the Airline topic, I flew with a few Iranian airlines and a variety of aircraft including F-50's, MD-83's, and a Tu-154. I traveled alone and was never accosted and never felt I was in any danger...and believe me, they knew I was not Iranian.

I actually felt better on the Russian iron since I knew that they could get new parts for them.

This is turning into more of a trip report but suffice to say I was pleasantly surprised by Iran. The people were universally interesting and interested in my life and I got to like most of the people I met, a lot.

That makes the sanctions even worse...they do almost nothing to quell the ardor and insanity of the government and definitely do harm to the citizens...and like most conflict, it's the innocent who pay the highest price.

The mullahs are getting old and Iran has one youngest populations and they are educated and very aware of the world at large. I have no doubt that a Persian spring is inevitable...the sooner the better.



What the...?
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 6009 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 18):
sorry but LH is 100 % privately owned, all shares are traded, the exception is that they are name shares and 50% + one share must be owned by German nationals. LH did not sell A300s to Iran either, they sold to companies who then sold to Iran, that is a difference.

Ah, I didn't know that. To my best knowledge LH was still partially state owned.

About LH selling A300s to Mahan and Iran Air it is true that they circumvented it via a Kazakh leasing company. But I don't see how that is any different in terms of ''supporting Iran'' than by offering cabotage flights.

Qatar and Iran are sitting on the world's largest gas reserves and if history is any indicator, money that big will turn any friend into an enemy. The USA at the same time is very dependend on Qatar as a key ally in the region; be it for the use of their military bases, be it politcally or economic entanglement.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomac...se-for-u-s-attack-on-iran-1.328081

One would think that Qatar is playing a dangerous game by not pledging allegiance to one ''side'' only. But both 'sides' (USA/Israel/Arab League - Iran/Iraq/Syria/Hamas) need Qatar far too much to turn their back on them. Qatar's air bases are a much more valuable asset to the USA and Canada than denying the travelling Iranian public safer air travel. Iran on the other hand is so desperate that they have no other choice but to make friends with people who are the accessory to their own, (possible) eventual murder.

I also doubt that a political revolution in Iran is imminent. What we, as ''Westerners'', have to understand is that Arabs and Persians alike look at the world differently than we do. According to a recent study 62% of the Egyptians want their laws to be in accordance with Sharia law, 82% approve of the stoning of adulterers, 77% of the amputation of hands of thiefs. 84% of Egyptians demand the death penalty for people that want to leave Islam.

In other, more colloquial terms: All of these countries are extremely f*d up [by our standards]. We should either not make business with them at all, or accept the fact that we are spineless rubes with no integrity. Providing the Iranian public with safer, domestic air travel is nothing that I think they deserve by virtue, but as it also doesn't increase international threat levels I don't see the point in banning them.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9166 posts, RR: 29
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5937 times:

Do you have reason to believe that LH knew about the sale to Mahan and Iran Air? Selling to a Khazak leasing company or whomever does not necessarily mean that they did and if they did, they would have had an OK from the US, since otherwise that would be a breach of US customs regulations, for the engines and other parts. An airline like LH could simply not afford that.

So let's not speculate, there was no reaction from the US over this and Lh also operates daily flights to THR ,



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5405 posts, RR: 30
Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5771 times:

Quoting something (Reply 22):
Qatar and Iran are sitting on the world's largest gas reserves and if history is any indicator, money that big will turn any friend into an enemy. The USA at the same time is very dependend on Qatar as a key ally in the region; be it for the use of their military bases, be it politcally or economic entanglement.

I worked in Doha for over a year, about a kilometer away from the Al Nahlah airport which is a huge US base in Qatar.

Iran is about a 5 minute missile flight from Iran and if push came to shove, there is little that Qatar needs from the US. Qatar sells its gas to Europe, (who really needs the gas), and really isn't beholding to the US form much at all. While they no doubt want to keep the peace while the US is so heavily involved in the neighborhood, Iran is the big dog in the park and no country in the region, (except maybe Iraq), has any interest on being on the wrong side of Iran's ire.

Nobody will sanction Qatar for anything, regardless of whether or not they take over Iranian domestic flights, the same way nobody has sanctioned Saudi Arabia for supporting terrorism, some of which is directly aimed at the west. Not only is Saudi not punished, the last civilian plane in the air on 9/11 was a 727 picking up Saudi nationals, hours after other Saudi nationals flew planes into American targets.

Interesting factoid; Doha is almost exactly 400 km due south from the Iranian Bushehr Nuclear power plant.

Quoting something (Reply 22):

I also doubt that a political revolution in Iran is imminent. What we, as ''Westerners'', have to understand is that Arabs and Persians alike look at the world differently than we do. According to a recent study 62% of the Egyptians want their laws to be in accordance with Sharia law, 82% approve of the stoning of adulterers, 77% of the amputation of hands of thiefs. 84% of Egyptians demand the death penalty for people that want to leave Islam.

What 'westerners' have to understand is that Arabs and Persians actually do look at the world much the same as we do. What they want, more than sharia law, is jobs, shelter, to feed their families, to get along with their neighbors and otherwise live a boring, normal life.

Westerners love to point fingers at others and crow about their moral superiority...yet will trade with, (and prop up), any despotic regime that provides them some momentary advantage, regardless of how that regime treats its citizens.

The vase majority of the Arabs and Persians I met expressed no interest in stoning or amputation. Egypt, as imperfect as is was and still is, is heads and tails above the wests' best friend in the Middle east, Saudi Arabia in terms of female equality and liberation.

How many decades did the West tolerate the despotic regimes of Egypt, Libya, Algeria, etc, all because of some economic benefit...regardless how they treated their citizens? The west allows every one of the crimes against humanity described above from their very best friends...if it supports the regime, doesn't it also mean it supports the regimes policies?

Surveys can be skewed to support any position the pollster wishes to promote.

What Iranians know and has been proven time and again, is that the citizenry is on it's own in any battle with the powers that be. While the mighty west is keen on blasting Ghadaffi off the map, there is not the smallest chance that any outside forces would come to the aid of the Iranian populace should they choose to revolt...as was shown during the demonstrations after the last election.

How eager would the average westerner be to face an armed military with nothing more than words?

Qatar can do whatever it wants and other than silly and useless lip service, will be completely immune to any action from the west.



What the...?
25 something : That's what I've been trying to say. As discussed in a parallel thread, the only thing I see in the way of QR commencing domestic Iranian flights is
26 JoeCanuck : That's what the Shah thought. I agree that we're not likely to see any regime change in the next year or two but It was the Iranian protests over the
27 yak42 : That is an extremely racist, offensive and orientalist view. Dont know where you got your bull**** stats but going by your link to an Israeli newspap
28 JoeCanuck : You defend your home regardless who attacks....that's just the way it is. Everybody is the same in that regard.
29 QatarA340 : I cant believe the comments here. They crack me up. First you impose an a.net trade embargo on Qatar, then you decide to move the US base to Kuwait. W
30 777way : And how proudly you state that in the last paragraph.
31 qantas747flyer : I suspect there will be some serious dialogue between the US and Qatar over this, I'm not sure it's as easy as one phone call? The US will not take k
32 Tupolev160 : I don't really understand what's going on here... Should we conclude, from some comments here, that any regime, government that refuses to do what the
33 777way : Especially reply #5 is the worst opinion, thankfully the posters, that I have ever come accross regarding any country thats considered rogue.
34 lightsaber : I think there is a chance this could work with one *major* restriction:The aircraft would probably have to be parked in DOH every night due to prior I
35 777way : How? cabin crew wise? what makes you think it wont be manned by all Iranian origin QR crew?
36 Tupolev160 : Where in the region have you lived? I would really like to know...
37 qantas747flyer : Regardless of the amount of "Noise" Iran Air makes, my guess is that the US already knows about the scheme with Qatar and is drawing up plans to prev
38 PanHAM : What seems to be ignored by some here is the fact that the sanctions against Iran are not only imposed by the US but by the UN as well. The whole comp
39 something : Which is of course correct. The sanctions aren't given out arbitrarily. Iran Air, for example, has been subjected to sanctions because they are accus
40 qantas747flyer : Judging from the statements made by Iran Air CEO, Farhad Parvaresh, the Iranians sound pretty sure of themselves: You raise an interesting point howe
41 Tupolev160 : Do things like what? Fly the aircraft? Have some Air Force? Oh, i didn't knew it was forbidden for Iran to have an Air Force. Would you allow Iran to
42 Post contains images PanHAM : I suggest that the Ukraine bring a resolution to the UN GA and have them vote on this. In you rplace however I'd be very, very happy of the UN and US
43 Post contains images MadameConcorde : Let Qatar mind their own business with Iran or any other nation they choose. I get sick and tired of this constant interventionism and policing of th
44 something : Well, that would of course stipulate that Iran Air is making profits. Lest not forget, they fly on subsidized jet fuel, their jets are anything but e
45 qantas747flyer : What type of "Potent cargo" loads are you referring to?
46 Post contains images something : The ones that appear to have entailed the sanctions placed on them. I at this point have no further information and solely rely on what's surfaced on
47 PanHAM : Iran Aiur is not a commercially run company, they are not there to make a profit but to provide an infrastructure for the government and here we are
48 jacobin777 : I wonder if that is true for the current generation of the people in their 20's and 30's (or even 40's)...many who weren't born nor had anything to d
49 Post contains images lightsaber : Then the US sanctions would be triggered and the flights grounded by prohibiting US built parts from being shipped to QR. But if they were standard Q
50 PanHAM : that would still allow to carry a bunch of militia guys from A to B within Iran and therefore sanctionable.
51 lightsaber : I hadn't considered that aspect... Lightsaber
52 Post contains links qantas747flyer : Whether the crew be Iranian or Qatari, lets hope that no heroics are required, as judging from the treatment of Iran Air's Boeing 727 pilot who recen
53 777way : I meant what if they are Iranian origin cabin crew working for QR from the day QR was established or of the last few years, not new recruits especiall
54 qantas747flyer : I'm not sure it does stipulate that? Could you clarify which of the two paths you hold to be true: 1) or 2)
55 something : I said that in response to It's only a financial risk to them if Iran Air is making money. If it doesn't, or it's even a loss making operation (which
56 Post contains links 777way : IR new schedule shows they are not using 747-100/200 any more only the SP is flying http://www.iranair.com/Portals/_Rain...RKING%20TIMETABLE%2813SEP11
57 qantas747flyer : If you suspect that Iran Air is losing money, how come earlier in the post you stated that the commencement of QR's flights would bring Iran Air to t
58 something : Because there is a difference between selling discounted tickets and not being able to sell tickets anymore at all. That of course would only be the
59 Post contains images lightsaber : It is a code share. IR will be selling the domestic routing QR tickets (per my understanding). In other words, IR will be dictating which routes and
60 something : Iran doesn't have any oil refineries. They sell the oil and then buy it back in different fractions/products. Jet fuel being one of them. If it was u
61 Post contains links qantas747flyer : According to the following article on Bloomberg: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-1...r-gas-link-to-china-media-say.html "Iran will soon start expo
62 Post contains links koreana380 : On airliners.net thread: Dubai Airshow 2011 - Middle East Orders (by koreana380 Oct 24 2011 in Civil Aviation)#54 The following link has been posted o
63 Post contains links koreana380 : Any chance that QR's latest order for 50 A320 NEO's is connected with their plans to take over the Iranian domestic market? Qatar Orders 50 (+30) A320
64 QatarA340 : I do not think so. I think the 30 options are realted though. QR has about 40 A32X in its fleet right now and its rapidly expanding to new A32X desti
65 Post contains links qantas747flyer : Just came across this in the Tehran Times: http://tehrantimes.com/index.php/component/content/article/92715 Contrary to recent media reports suggestin
66 Post contains links lightsaber : In my opinion, Al Baker has proven that he will re-negotiate deals in the press whenever it is to his advantage. Recent examples: CargoLux's 748F (co
67 Post contains links qantas747flyer : According to the Iranian Transport Ministry deputy Minister, Shahriar Afandizadeh, "The agreements have been done" - if the deal is closed what use i
68 Post contains images lightsaber : An agreement done with Al Baker? As I posted in the prior post (sorry to quote myself): I believe Al Baker has taken the negotiations far enough that
69 Post contains links koreana380 : Any news if Qatar Airways' much hyped " Iran ramp-up" has started? Their Iran operations were scheduled to significantly increase beginning December 1
70 PanHAM : As mentioned in the other post, QR really has to take care that they do not carry any persons and cargo that are black listed. For QR, they take the a
71 QatarA340 : Apparently on the flight status on QR and DOH websites say only 2 flights. Apparently on the QR website the flights are listed as CANCELLED. There wa
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