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Delta & WestJet Plan Reciprocal Codeshare  
User currently offlinecwalt2 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 20 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5640 times:

Delta Air Lines is seeking to engage in reciprocal codesharing services with WestJet.

Routes include Delta's:
Atlanta-Montreal, Toronto
Boston-Toronto
Cincinnati-Toronto
Detroit-Ottawa, Quebec, Montreal, Toronto
Detroit-Quebec
Minneapolis-Edmonton, Regina, Montreal, Vancouver, Winnipeg, Saskatoon, Calgary, Toronto
Salt Lake City-Vancouver, Calgary

Los Angeles-Atlanta, New Orleans, Oakland, San Diego, San Francisco & Sacremento.


And the following WestJet routes:
Los Angeles-Edmonton, Calgary
Miami-Toronto

as well as Toronto, Calgary, Montreal, Vancouver & Ottawa to Edmonton, Halifax, Kelowna, Ft. McMurray, Moneton, Thunder Bay, Charlottetown & St Johns.

Full details located here - http://archive.traveldaily.com.au/td.../Nov11/Delta_WestJet_codeshare.pdf

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2790 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5539 times:

Smart move by Delta in taking advantage of the WestJet network, but it's interesting to me that they're codesharing with an airline that doesn't have a premium cabin at a time when they're going to great pains to reconfigure their RJ partners cabins to include an F offering (at least on the 70 and 90 seat RJs).

[Edited 2011-11-01 17:24:49]

User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8867 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5457 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 1):
Smart move by Delta in taking advantage of the WestJet network, but it's interesting to me that they're codesharing with an airline that doesn't have a premium cabin at a time when they're going to great pains to reconfigure their RJ partners cabins to include an F offering (at least on the 70 and 90 seat RJs).

Considering there's only one true network carrier in Canada that offers a premium cabin, and they're accounted for in Star Alliance, it left Delta with little choice.


User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1773 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5309 times:

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 2):
Considering there's only one true network carrier in Canada that offers a premium cabin, and they're accounted for in Star Alliance, it left Delta with little choice.

  

At least WS offers an all-economy product far above what you would expect from an "LCC". I can't see DL customers being too miffed about this.



Flying refined.
User currently offlinefly2yyz From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1029 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5200 times:

DL is offering options to their passengers! Good for WS for doing this!

User currently offlineAA767LOVER From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2007, 564 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5101 times:

There needs to be correction: There is no BOS-YYZ, but JFK-YYZ using mixed CRJs. Mostly CR2.


J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6574 posts, RR: 32
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5058 times:

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 5):
There needs to be correction: There is no BOS-YYZ

No correction is needed; BOS-YYZ on the CR2 (operated by 9E) begins a week from today.


User currently offlineyegbey01 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1721 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5021 times:

So WJ is following an Alaska Airlines strategy....Surprise surprise that WS's current CEO comes from Alaska Air.

obviously WS will be sacrificial yields to sell more seats and give AC some real competition in the US - Canada market.

But it is becoming less clear to me whether WS will eventually join an alliance.


User currently offlineYukon880 From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 137 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5010 times:
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Quoting catiii (Reply 1):

It seems like we all agree it's a good move for both sides, I guess I'm missing your meaning with regard to the premium cabin. I feel confident that WestJet's professionalism and product had a great deal to do with this arrangement moving forward from its modest start.

Yukon



Pratt & Whitney, In thrust we trust!
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3094 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 4913 times:

I wonder if we will see some increased service of westjet entering more delta markets in the US?

I wonder if it would make make sense for westjet to enter a route like SLC-YYC with a 737? Deltas current strategy on the route and YVR is high fares and small planes but if westjet can fly in LCC style and connect to places all over the west via Delta it might make more sense for more seats now? Delta often has very high fares on SLC-YYC/YVR and is definitely not in the volume game but westjet really opens more doors of options just an example but im sure there are more where west jet and this code share could add more passengers and FF bases to have a reason to fly the other airline now


User currently offlineusdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 870 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 4635 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 1):
Smart move by Delta in taking advantage of the WestJet network, but it's interesting to me that they're codesharing with an airline that doesn't have a premium cabin at a time when they're going to great pains to reconfigure their RJ partners cabins to include an F offering (at least on the 70 and 90 seat RJs).

Good point, but this apparently doesn't matter. DL would much rather get the "free" addition to their network exit Canada and attract more Canadian flyers in the process. I've never understood the US/CA market situation; it seems like after 9/11, most markets went RJ (esp. YUL) and the presence of US carriers has been shrinking since then. DL seems to have cut a number of the mainline flights exit MSP to western Canada and is now content with smaller planes. Maybe UA/CO have grown in conjunction with their AC tie-up, but the entire market seems to have atrophied for US carriers from what it was in the 90's. Has AC really made enough inroads into the US market that other carriers have been forced to cut back?


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4878 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4563 times:

WJ+DL
WJ+AA
AS+DL
AS+AA

Any chance of WJ+AS?

Now with AA and DL sharing two mistresses, does anyone else see the opportunity for AA+DL to leapfrog UA/US in some sort of overpowering domestic alliance?



Next Up: STL-TPA-BWI-PWM-BWI-STL
User currently onlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8089 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4549 times:
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Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 11):
WJ+DL
WJ+AA
AS+DL
AS+AA

This reminds me of British Midland before it went to the Star Allinace, it code-shared with almost every long haul airline at LHR since it never had a lthings could ong haul network. GOL in Brazil seems to be doing the same, things could change once LATAM decides which alliance they go to.


User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1773 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4389 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 11):
Any chance of WJ+AS?

I can't see this partnership being justified on WestJet's end. Such a codeshare would open up Canadian markets and be a brilliant move for AS (it baffles me that they don't already have a Canadian partner), but now with the DL codeshare, WS has no use for AS's network. The only competitive advantage that AS has over other carriers (in this situation) is it's extensive reach in Alaska, but I don't see there being enough demand on the WS side to make this viable.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4878 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2853 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 13):


but now with the DL codeshare, WS has no use for AS's network.

And yet DL has a use for AS's network, and WS has a use for DL's network...the logical assumption would be that WS and AS would have a use for each others networks would it not?



Next Up: STL-TPA-BWI-PWM-BWI-STL
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 23
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2783 times:

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 11):
WJ+DL
WJ+AA
AS+DL
AS+AA

Any chance of WJ+AS?

WestJet's IATA code is WS, not WJ which is another Canadian carrier, Air Labrador. WestJet's ICAO code, WJA, does include a J.  


User currently offlineskymiler From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 511 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2598 times:

If WS bids for and gets some LGA slots (as postulated in another thread) , would this potentially give DL some extra "stealth" frequencies out of LGA?   


I love to fly, and it shows!
User currently offlineconnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2510 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 9):
Deltas current strategy on the route and YVR is high fares

Don't kid yourself Westjet is up there too.


User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2790 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2478 times:

Quoting Yukon880 (Reply 8):
It seems like we all agree it's a good move for both sides, I guess I'm missing your meaning with regard to the premium cabin. I feel confident that WestJet's professionalism and product had a great deal to do with this arrangement moving forward from its modest start.

My point is that if I purchase a first class ticket (or book as a premium passenger a coach seat with the expectation of an upgrade) that makes a connection to WestJet in the United States, that routing doesn't get me the same, or comparable product for the entire trip. Are a ton of passengers going to be connecting through LAX or MIA on DL to WestJet? Probably not. But as the agreement presumably is going to grow at some point, I could see it as an issue in the future. WestJet's pitch is 32" and width is 17". Using comparable aircraft on DL (73NG), their F pitch is 38", and width is 20.5" (while, admittedly, the DL coach pitch and width on the 73NG is comparable). It isn't a knock on the professionalism of the WestJet people, more an observation on the fact that while DL is compelling its regional jet partners to offer an F or premium product on it's 70 and 90 seat RJ's, it is interesting that they're entering into a codeshare with a partner that doesn't have that same offering.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7264 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2460 times:

Quoting skymiler (Reply 16):

If WS bids for and gets some LGA slots (as postulated in another thread) , would this potentially give DL some extra "stealth" frequencies out of LGA?   

If they can really beat out WN and B6, and let's face it, WS probably doesn't care about LGA. I don't think any US carrier has a hub/focus city in Canada or vice versa, and I don't see WS doing this. Now if DL conspires and gives money to WS to purchase some slots... but that would probably be highly illegal...



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineAA767LOVER From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2007, 564 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2300 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 6):

All the better! So does that mean that AA Eagle, AC and DL are all on this route?
JFK-YYZ still exists? Before LAN left the JFK-YYZ with the only widebody, AA and DL were the only ones doing the JFK-YYZ market.



J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
User currently offlineYLWbased From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2006, 803 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2247 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 18):
My point is that if I purchase a first class ticket (or book as a premium passenger a coach seat with the expectation of an upgrade) that makes a connection to WestJet in the United States, that routing doesn't get me the same, or comparable product for the entire trip. Are a ton of passengers going to be connecting through LAX or MIA on DL to WestJet? Probably not. But as the agreement presumably is going to grow at some point, I could see it as an issue in the future. WestJet's pitch is 32" and width is 17". Using comparable aircraft on DL (73NG), their F pitch is 38", and width is 20.5" (while, admittedly, the DL coach pitch and width on the 73NG is comparable). It isn't a knock on the professionalism of the WestJet people, more an observation on the fact that while DL is compelling its regional jet partners to offer an F or premium product on it's 70 and 90 seat RJ's, it is interesting that they're entering into a codeshare with a partner that doesn't have that same offering.

CX (Yes, Cathay Pacific) is currently cod-sharing with WS on selected routes ex YVR and YYZ. If a premium airlines such as CX doesn't find it to be a problem, I don't think it'll be a problem for Delta.

YLWbased



Hong Kong is not China. Not better or worse, just different.
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 23
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1956 times:

Quoting YLWbased (Reply 21):
If a premium airlines such as CX doesn't find it to be a problem, I don't think it'll be a problem for Delta.

CX has no choice. It's WS or nothing. I'm sure CX would much prefer to be able to codeshare with a full-service carrier with a premium class product.


User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2790 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1912 times:

I'm sure CAthay's premium pax coming off those flights to a WestJet connection are thrilled....

User currently offlineYukon880 From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 137 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1893 times:
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Quoting catiii (Reply 18):

Well, I can certainly appreciate the appeal of a premium seat with matching service onboard. That said, if I do book a connection on a segment that does not offer premium seating, I am certainly going to do so knowingly. Granted, there will be people that will make bookings and travel, only to find that certain expectations were not met. But honestly, in a situation like this I really doubt that they will be in the majority.

DL certainly has a great deal more ability to influence aspects of the business model of their connection carriers, than they would with WestJet, not that it would be their intent. Perhaps this arrangement will prove to be most beneficial to both carriers. I can think of a number of places in the far reaches of Canada that could be opened to DL's customers, and the benefit to WestJet's passengers is clear. Not that it would be particularly necessary, or well-advised, but the benefit to WestJet could be so great that they might want to offer premium seating at some point in the future.

Time will tell.



Pratt & Whitney, In thrust we trust!
User currently offlineMaranoerau From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1808 times:

Any idea when they plan to start this?

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