nickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1457 posts, RR: 0 Posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 11587 times:
A Sydney Morning Herald article asks if Aeroflot has replaced Qantas as the longest continuously operating airline in the world as a result of the Qantas fleet grounding at the weekend. I think they may have a point... http://www.smh.com.au/business/russi...ntas-grounding-20111101-1mtw6.html
jetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2021 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 11485 times:
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I always thought KLM was the oldest?
Blue
Professor Foltz: You push down on that yolk, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yolk, the houses get bigger.
TN486 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 816 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 11429 times:
QF did not cease to exist, so whats your point? QANTAS is a group of companies, and though mainline was grounded for a couple of days, other flying entities wern't, so it now seems to me we could indulge in a hairsplitting exercise.
[Edited 2011-11-01 19:02:01]
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
PanAm788 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 274 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 11373 times:
"Longest continuously operated" has nothing to do with age. The date of which an airline is founded is stagnant. ie My younger brother can never become older than me. Title is a bit misleading/doesn't make sense.
aloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8357 posts, RR: 47 Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 11262 times:
Quoting PanAm788 (Reply 5): My younger brother can never become older than me.
I think he'll find that a real possibility if you happen to die earlier than him.
Which sort of proves the point: Qantas stopped operating due to a management decision, which is different from e.g. groundings due to ash clouds or strikes. So while the company is still the same as before, it can no longer boast continuous operations - the people in power decided to drop the relay baton.
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21026 posts, RR: 60 Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 11208 times:
rfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6145 posts, RR: 25 Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks ago) and read 10959 times:
Quoting timz (Reply 2): Did KLM operate during WWII?
Several KLM aircraft were interred in the UK. KLM crews and aircraft flew most of the Bristol-Lisbon route flights.
Those flights were done under the BOAC label and that is the basis of Qantas as the world's oldest "Continually operated airline".
But the 'merger' between KLM and Air France is considered the end of KLM as a separate airline by some folks. That would be the basis of a claim that Qantas is the world's oldest airline.
qf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2554 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10828 times:
The airline was stilling running. Those staff who weren't part of the action were still working, and QF flights were still operating across the Tasman (via Jetconnect). The title stands I say...
aerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6325 posts, RR: 14 Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10812 times:
besides given that the Ash Cloud grounded KL/SU aircraft for longer than the QF strikes it stands to reason that they are eliminated from the list as well as QF.
AV started in 1919 as well, and didn't have ash clouds or world wars. but the point is moot. because QF is still going until it is driven into the ground by Joyce and his staff...
NWAROOSTER From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 846 posts, RR: 3 Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10751 times:
Quoting qf002 (Reply 12):
The airline was stilling running. Those staff who weren't part of the action were still working, and QF flights were still operating across the Tasman (via Jetconnect). The title stands I say...
You are correct. I worked as a mechanic at Northwest Airlines for 37 years. Northwest was continuously finding themselves on strike. Northwest was called "Cobra Airlines" because "Northwest Airline struck at anything."
The FAA used to call Northwest "the Non Working Airline." Northwest became the oldest airline in the United States when Delta Airlines "bought" Western Airlines. Delta then "merged" with Northwest Airline and now may be the oldest airline in the United States. KLM is now part of Air France, so Qantas is the oldest airline, work stoppage or not.
Aeroflot was originally part of Communist Russia. Did it ever get shut down.? It was originally run by the Communist government and now has been dissected into many bits. It is not the same airline. I think this discussion is silly and somewhat pointless.
Checo77 From Peru, joined Oct 2004, 1345 posts, RR: 9 Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10656 times:
I know KL is pretty old, but OK is very old too. I have to do some research, since I remember reading somewhere that they were very very old....
Adam
The info is as follows, from CSA website: (http://www.csa.cz/en/portal/company/about_us/history.htm)
Czech Airlines is one of the oldest airlines in Europe. We have provided services to passengers since 1923.
CZECH AIRLINES was founded as Czechoslovak State Airlines on the 6th of October 1923. The first transport flight from Prague to Bratislava took place on the 29th of October the same year. On that trip, pilot Karel Brabenec flew the distance of 321 km with an Aero A-14 (Brandenburg) bi-plane.
Certainly not the oldest in the world, but very old yes!
LONGisland89 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 634 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 10597 times:
Quoting HomsAR (Reply 10): Since the airspace was shut down after September 11, 2001, does that mean no US airline has been continuously operating for more than 10 years?
Exactly! What is the definition of continuously operating? I'd bet that MX personnel at AA who worked long hours around the clock following 9-11, clearing out MEL lists on hundreds of aircraft, would argue a claim that they weren't 'operating.'
If you think of it logically, any kind of work being done at an airline is conceptually critical to the operation or somehow supports it. Therefore, if anyone punched into work during the grounding and performed work to support an aviation operation (Qantas) I'd say the carrier was still operating.
Hmmmm, but on the other hand, an airline's critical function is transporting people/goods etc, so if that isn't occurring, the airline really isn't operating. Yeah, this is a tough one. My head hurts, time for bed.
qf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2554 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10259 times:
Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 16): Exactly! What is the definition of continuously operating? I'd bet that MX personnel at AA who worked long hours around the clock following 9-11, clearing out MEL lists on hundreds of aircraft, would argue a claim that they weren't 'operating.'
If you think of it logically, any kind of work being done at an airline is conceptually critical to the operation or somehow supports it. Therefore, if anyone punched into work during the grounding and performed work to support an aviation operation (Qantas) I'd say the carrier was still operating.
Hmmmm, but on the other hand, an airline's critical function is transporting people/goods etc, so if that isn't occurring, the airline really isn't operating. Yeah, this is a tough one. My head hurts, time for bed.
I'd say any airline that is in operation without extended periods of inactivity. Some of the airlines that stopped services for months and years during the wars definitely have not continuously operated, but a grounding or other shorter term period of inactivity (ie a few days to a few weeks) doesn't really count... In those situations it's not a deliberate move to stop operations for an extended period, but rather a short term issue fueled by other factors (strikes, attacks etc).
bralo20 From Belgium, joined May 2008, 585 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10146 times:
Though not operating under the SNETA/SABENA name anymore, the foundation of Brussels Airlines (IATA: SN, Ticketcode 082) was laid back on March 31, 1919 when SNETA was founded. On May 23, 1923 SNETA was succeeded by SABENA which was succeeded by SN Brussels Airlines in 2002 and Brussels Airlines in 2007. Technically the roots of Brussels Airlines go back for 92 years.
However, the oldest airline still operating today is SAS which was founded partially through Det Danske Luftfartselskab which was established on October 29, 1918.
The roots of Air France goes back to December 25, 1918 when the Société des lignes Latécoère was founded which would become Air France later.
KLM was founded on October 7, 1919 and is today the oldest airline operating under a single name. All others were rebranded throughout the years. Though the mainline was stopped through the second worldwar parts of KLM remained operating in the Caribbean and the Antilles.
Qantas is a close second and was founded on November 16, 1920
Aeroflot is close being 3th and was founded on February 9, 1923
So the oldest airlines still operating today are:
1) SAS (as Det Danske Luftfartselskab)
2) Air France (as Société des lignes Latécoère)
3) Brussels Airlines (as SNETA / SABENA / SN Brussels Airlines)
4) KLM
5) Qantas
6) Aeroflot
joelyboy911 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 244 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10146 times:
I believe it has more to do with brands than actual companies. Company structures are changing all the time. Qantas can only really claim being the worlds longest used airline brand. Whereas KLM is the oldest airline brand still flying, though the brand's use was interrupted during the war. That's my interpretation at least.
bralo20 From Belgium, joined May 2008, 585 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 9728 times:
Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 19): Whereas KLM is the oldest airline brand still flying, though the brand's use was interrupted during the war. That's my interpretation at least.
They stopped flying in The Netherlands during WWII though they remained flying overseas so they have operated continuesly But yeah, in their "home" country they didn't fly...
VAAengineer From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 89 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9138 times:
Quoting bralo20 (Reply 18): So the oldest airlines still operating today are:
1) SAS (as Det Danske Luftfartselskab)
2) Air France (as Société des lignes Latécoère)
3) Brussels Airlines (as SNETA / SABENA / SN Brussels Airlines)
4) KLM
5) Qantas
6) Aeroflot
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined exactly 12 years ago today! , 9069 posts, RR: 13 Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 7906 times:
No matter how you look at it, KLM is the oldest airline still operating. They are still run as a seperate brand under their own name and colors so they didn't cease to exist after the merger. AV is the second oldest airline in the world.
A388
25 av757: Avianca Colombia has its roots from SCADTA and was founded on December 5 1919 and has operated continously for the last 91 years of its operation. AV7
26 bralo20: Not exactly correct, they are indeed the oldest airline operating under 1 single brand. However, the oldest airline still operating today is SAS foll
27 richierich: The definition of continually operating is a bit arbitrary because there is no standard definition. Personally, I believe that to be 'continually oper
28 n729pa: I feel like the oldest Airliners forum reader after reading all that lot..... I think what most people look at is the 2nd list. The first one is reall
29 Navigator: Finnair started as Aero OY in 1923, where do they fit in this?
30 A388: I agree with you as well. KLM indeed is the oldest airline around. A388
31 EPA001: I could not agree more. But it is more important how these "old airlines" are operating today. I fly KLM every week, and they are doing OK. Although
32 rfields5421: The dates of founding (not first flight) are: 1918 - Oct 29 - Det Danske Luftfartselskab - service stopped in WWII - 1946 combined with two others to
33 Checo77: If we take it by which airline kept their original name, Czech Airlines ends up 4th oldest? Am I getting this right?[Edited 2011-11-02 13:47:39]
34 EDICHC: So bankruptcy and dissolution of the company, no service for 3 months, take over of subsidiary (in other words a different company buying an asset of
35 Viscount724: I agree. Just like the current LX is a new company, not a continuation of bankrupt Swissair. LX was built on the base of regional carrier Crossair, i
36 aviateur: An "operational gap?" It's a WHOLLY DIFFERENT ENTITY. Brussels Airlines is no more Sabena than an apple is an orange, I'm sorry. That's why I hate th
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You are correct. I worked as a mechanic at Northwest Airlines for 37 years. Northwest was continuously finding themselves on strike. Northwest was called "Cobra Airlines" because "Northwest Airline struck at anything."
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