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OAG Changes 11/4/2011: AA/DL/F9/G4/UA  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7110 posts, RR: 13
Posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 9793 times:

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5 days out of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

What is this?
6G FLL-ASD DEC 0>0.6 JAN 0>0.6 FEB 0>0.3
6G FLL-CCZ DEC 0.5>0.3 JAN 0.6>0.3 FEB 0.6>0.3 MAR 0.5>0.3 APR 0.6>0.3 MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.6>0.3 JUL 0.6>0.3
6G FLL-GHC DEC 0>0.6 JAN 0>0.6 FEB 0>0.6 MAR 0>0.6 APR 0>0.6 MAY 0>0.5 JUN 0>0.6 JUL 0>0.6
6G FLL-RSD DEC 0>0.5 JAN 0>0.4 FEB 0>0.4 MAR 0>0.5 APR 0>0.4 MAY 0>0.4 JUN 0>0.4 JUL 0>0.4
6G FLL-TBI DEC 0>0.4 JAN 0>0.5 FEB 0>0.4 MAR 0>0.4 APR 0>0.4 MAY 0>0.4 JUN 0>0.4 JUL 0>0.5

9K EYW-RSW JAN 6>7 FEB 6>7 MAR 6>7 APR 6>7 JUN 6>4 JUL 6>0

Looks like more crew shortage related temp cuts
AA BOS-LHR DEC 1.8>1.6
AA DFW-SAN DEC 9>8
AA DFW-SCL DEC 1.2>1.0 JAN 1.4>1.3
AA DFW-SFO DEC 11>10
AA DFW-SNA DEC 10>9
*AA JFK-BUD DEC 0.6>0 JAN 0.5>0.4
AA JFK-PLS DEC 1.0>0.5
AA JFK-PUJ DEC 1.0>0.3
AA LAX-JFK DEC 10>9
AA LAX-PVG DEC 0.9>0.8
AA LAX-SFO DEC 6>5
*AA LAX-SJU DEC 0.3>0
AA MIA-CCS DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5
AA MIA-EZE DEC 3>2
*AA MIA-VLN DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0
AA ORD-BOS DEC 8>7
AA ORD-LAS DEC 5>4
AA ORD-LGA DEC 14>13

AC MCO-YUL DEC 1.5>1.3
AC PHX-YYZ DEC 1.8>1.6
AC RSW-YYZ DEC 1.7>1.5
AC TPA-YUL DEC 0.3>0.2

AF BOS-CDG MAY 1.8>1.1
*AF EWR-CDG MAR 0.8>0.5 APR 1.0>0 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0
AF SFO-CDG APR 1.0>0.9

AM MIA-CUN DEC 2>1.8 JAN 2>0.6 FEB 3>0 MAR 2>1.7
AM SAT-MEX DEC 2>3 JAN 2>3 FEB 3>4 MAR 2>3 APR 2>3 MAY 2>3 JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3
AM SFO-GDL JAN 0.4>0.2 FEB 0.4>0

*AS OAK-HNL APR 0>0.7 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0
AS PDX-MFR MAR 3>4 APR 3>4 MAY 3>4
*AS SJC-HNL APR 0>0.7 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0

B6 BOS-STI JAN 0.3>0.5
B6 JFK-KIN JAN 1.1>1.2
B6 JFK-MBJ JAN 1.1>1.4 FEB 1.3>1.5
B6 JFK-SFO JAN 2>3 FEB 2>4 MAR 1.8>3 APR 1.9>3

CO CLE-PVD FEB 3>1.7
CO CLE-STL FEB 2>3
CO EWR-SEA FEB 4>3
CO IAH-CLT FEB 6>5
CO IAH-LEX FEB 1.5>1.0
CO IAH-YEG FEB 1.0>1.5 MAR 1.0>1.8 APR 1.0>1.9 MAY 1.0>1.9 JUN 1.0>1.2
CO LAX-EWR FEB 7>6
CO LAX-HNL FEB 1.5>1.1
CO LAX-HNL FEB 1.5>1.1
CO SFO-CLE FEB 1.5>1.0

*DL ATL-GYE FEB 0.1>0 MAR 0.2>0 APR 0.1>0 MAY 0.1>0 JUN 0.2>0 JUL 1.0>0
DL BOS-RDU MAR 4>5 APR 4>5 MAY 4>5 JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5
DL CVG-SEA JAN 0.9>0.6
DL CVG-SFO JAN 1.0>0.6
DL DTW-MKE JUN 6>7 JUL 6>7
DL FSD-MSP MAY 6>7
DL LAX-MSP MAY 6>7
DL MOT-MSP MAY 6>7
DL MSP-CUN APR 0.4>0.3 MAY 0.1>0
DL SLC-PSC JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4
DL SLC-SUN APR 4>3 MAY 4>3

EI JFK-DUB DEC 1.9>1.8

More cuts driven by fleet more than seasonality I think
F9 DEN-ABQ JAN 4>3 FEB 4>3
F9 DEN-AUS JAN 3>1.8
F9 DEN-BKG FEB 0.6>0.4
F9 DEN-BNA JAN 3>1.8 FEB 3>1.9
F9 DEN-CUN JAN 1.3>1.1 FEB 1.3>1.2
*F9 DEN-DRO JAN 3>1.2 FEB 3>1.0
F9 DEN-HOU JAN 3>1.7 FEB 3>1.6
F9 DEN-LAX JAN 6>5 FEB 6>5
F9 DEN-MDW JAN 4>3 FEB 4>3
*F9 DEN-OMA JAN 4>3 FEB 5>3
F9 DEN-PDX JAN 5>4 FEB 6>4
F9 DEN-PSP MAY 0.4>0.2
F9 DEN-SAT JAN 1.9>1.1 FEB 1.9>1.0
F9 DEN-SEA JAN 5>4
*F9 MCI-SAT JAN 0.6>0.1

G4 ABE-SFB MAY 0.4>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.5>0.3
G4 ATW-LAS MAY 0.4>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.5>0.3
G4 AZA-GFK MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.5>0.3
G4 AZA-MLI MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.5>0.3
G4 AZA-MOT JUN 0.6>0.4
G4 AZA-PIA MAY 0.4>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.4>0.3
G4 AZA-RFD JUN 0.6>0.4
G4 BIL-LAS MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.5>0.3
G4 CHA-PIE MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.5>0.3
G4 CHA-SFB MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.5>0.3
G4 DSM-LAS MAY 0.8>0.5 JUN 0.9>0.6 JUL 0.8>0.6
G4 FLL-GRR MAY 0.3>0.1 JUN 0.3>0.1 JUL 0.3>0.2
G4 FSD-LAX MAY 0.3>0.1 JUN 0.3>0.1 JUL 0.3>0.2
G4 GRR-LAS MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.5>0.3
G4 GRR-SFB MAY 0.6>0.3 JUN 0.5>0.3 JUL 0.6>0.3
G4 GSO-SFB MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.5>0.3
G4 HTS-SFB MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.5>0.3
G4 LAS-MSO MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.5>0.3
G4 LAS-RFD MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.5>0.3
G4 LEX-PGD JUN 0.6>0.4
G4 LEX-SFB MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.5>0.3
G4 MLI-PIE MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.5>0.3
G4 PBG-PIE MAY 0.5>0.3 JUN 0.6>0.3 JUL 0.5>0.3
G4 PIE-SBN MAY 0.7>0.3 JUN 0.7>0.3 JUL 0.7>0.3
G4 PIE-TOL MAY 0.6>0.3 JUN 0.5>0.3 JUL 0.6>0.3
G4 RFD-SFB APR 0.7>0.5 MAY 0.7>0.3 JUN 0.7>0.3 JUL 0.7>0.3
G4 SBN-SFB APR 0.8>0.6 MAY 0.7>0.3 JUN 0.7>0.3 JUL 0.7>0.3
G4 SFB-TOL MAY 0.4>0.3 JUN 0.4>0.3 JUL 0.5>0.3

IB MIA-MAD FEB 1.5>1.3

SQ LAX-SIN APR 1.0>0.7 MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.7 JUL 1.0>0.7

SY MSP-CUN FEB 1.7>1.9 MAR 1.9>3

TS FLL-YQB DEC 0.2>0.4 JAN 0>0.5 FEB 0>0.5 MAR 0>0.4 APR 0>0.5
TS FLL-YUL DEC 0.2>0.6 JAN 0>1.2 FEB 0>1.3 MAR 0>1.2 APR 0>0.9
TS FLL-YYZ JAN 0>0.3 FEB 0>0.4 MAR 0>0.4 APR 0>0.4
TS MCO-YQB MAR 0>0.2 APR 0>0.1
TS MCO-YUL JAN 0.2>0.4 FEB 0.2>0.6 MAR 0.3>0.7 APR 0.2>0.6
TS MCO-YYZ DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.5 FEB 0>0.4 MAR 0>0.6 APR 0>0.6

The cuts for MAR are surprising
UA DEN-ABQ MAR 7>6
UA DEN-ASE MAR 12>11
UA DEN-EGE FEB 4>5 MAR 3>5
UA DEN-HLN FEB 1.5>1.0 MAR 1.8>0.8
UA DEN-MCI MAR 6>7
UA DEN-MLI MAR 2>3
UA DEN-MSO MAR 4>3
UA DEN-OGG FEB 0.1>0.6
UA DEN-ONT MAR 3>2 APR 4>3 MAY 4>3 JUN 4>3 JUL 4>3
UA DEN-SNA APR 5>4 MAY 5>4 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4
UA DEN-TUS MAR 5>6
UA DEN-XNA FEB 1.4>1.0 MAR 1.8>1.0
UA IAD-ACC APR 1.0>0.6 MAY 1.0>0.6 JUN 1.0>0.7 JUL 1.0>0.7
UA IAD-DME APR 1.0>0.8 MAY 1.0>0.9
UA IAD-PNS MAR 1.6>1.0
UA IAD-PWM MAR 3>2
UA IAD-RIC FEB 5>4 MAR 4>3
UA LAX-ELP FEB 1.5>1.0
UA LAX-KOA FEB 1.0>1.5
UA ORD-ABE MAR 4>3
UA ORD-ATL MAR 6>7
UA ORD-AUS MAR 4>3
UA ORD-BOI FEB 1.5>1.0 MAR 2>1.0
UA ORD-BTV MAR 4>3
UA ORD-BUF MAR 6>5
UA ORD-BWI FEB 5>4 MAR 6>4
UA ORD-CHS MAR 4>3
UA ORD-CID MAR 6>5
UA ORD-COS MAR 5>4
UA ORD-ELP FEB 1.5>1.0 MAR 2>1.0
UA ORD-GSO MAR 5>4
UA ORD-GSP MAR 4>3
UA ORD-HSV FEB 1.3>0.8 MAR 1.6>0.6
UA ORD-ICT MAR 5>4
UA ORD-IND MAR 8>9
UA ORD-LAS MAR 5>6
UA ORD-LAX MAR 13>12
UA ORD-MDT FEB 5>4 MAR 6>4
UA ORD-MLI MAR 7>6
UA ORD-ORF MAR 6>4
UA ORD-PDX MAR 4>5
UA ORD-PIT MAR 5>4
*UA ORD-PNS FEB 0.6>0.1 MAR 1.0>0.2
UA ORD-ROC MAR 6>5
UA ORD-SAT MAR 4>3
UA ORD-SEA MAR 6>5
UA ORD-SYR FEB 5>4 MAR 6>4
UA ORD-TPA MAR 4>5
UA ORD-TUL MAR 5>4
UA ORD-YEG MAR 3>2
UA ORD-YVR MAR 4>1.8
UA SFO-YYJ FEB 1.5>1.0

US CLT-CUN FEB 4>3
US DCA-ILM JAN 0.4>0.3
US PHL-CUN FEB 4>3
US PHL-CVG JAN 5>6
US PHL-NAS FEB 1.2>1.0
US PHL-YOW FEB 5>4

W3 JFK-LOS APR 0>0.4 MAY 0>0.4 JUN 0>0.4 JUL 0>0.4

YV HNL-ITO DEC 4>3 JAN 5>4 FEB 6>5 MAR 5>4 APR 5>4 MAY 5>4 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4
YV HNL-OGG DEC 6>7

57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineglobalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 926 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9441 times:

I believe that 6G is the new Sun Air International that is flying out of FLL to the Bahamas.
http://www.gosunair.com/
The CEO was the founder of Gulfstream Int'l.



Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
User currently offlinejacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 9393 times:

Thanks for the update enilria..  

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
B6 JFK-SFO JAN 2>3 FEB 2>4 MAR 1.8>3 APR 1.9>3

I wonder if this has to do with AA cutting one flight on the route and/or trying to establish themselves more in the SFO area...  .

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AA ORD-LGA DEC 14>13

According to DL's timetable, they are cutting this from 12 daily to 8 daily (8 daily starts on 12-17-2011 according to DL's timetables). DL will be increasing it back up in 2012.

Looks like a seasonal reduction.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1099 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9144 times:

Those are some interesting UA cuts in March '12.....obviously UAx reductions. Does anyone know if this indicates OO culling more 50 seaters in the spring?

User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2749 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 9000 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-ABQ JAN 4>3 FEB 4>3
F9 DEN-AUS JAN 3>1.8
F9 DEN-BKG FEB 0.6>0.4
F9 DEN-BNA JAN 3>1.8 FEB 3>1.9
F9 DEN-CUN JAN 1.3>1.1 FEB 1.3>1.2
*F9 DEN-DRO JAN 3>1.2 FEB 3>1.0
F9 DEN-HOU JAN 3>1.7 FEB 3>1.6
F9 DEN-LAX JAN 6>5 FEB 6>5
F9 DEN-MDW JAN 4>3 FEB 4>3
*F9 DEN-OMA JAN 4>3 FEB 5>3
F9 DEN-PDX JAN 5>4 FEB 6>4
F9 DEN-PSP MAY 0.4>0.2
F9 DEN-SAT JAN 1.9>1.1 FEB 1.9>1.0
F9 DEN-SEA JAN 5>4
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA DEN-ABQ MAR 7>6
UA DEN-ASE MAR 12>11
UA DEN-EGE FEB 4>5 MAR 3>5
UA DEN-HLN FEB 1.5>1.0 MAR 1.8>0.8
UA DEN-MCI MAR 6>7
UA DEN-MLI MAR 2>3
UA DEN-MSO MAR 4>3
UA DEN-OGG FEB 0.1>0.6
UA DEN-ONT MAR 3>2 APR 4>3 MAY 4>3 JUN 4>3 JUL 4>3
UA DEN-SNA APR 5>4 MAY 5>4 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4
UA DEN-TUS MAR 5>6
UA DEN-XNA FEB 1.4>1.0 MAR 1.8>1.0



With about 13-14 daily cuts from F9 here, and another 4-5 from UA (plus all of those from previous weeks from both F9 and UA) and with WN not really doing much other than adding maybe a single flight from a new city here and there, and the rest of the other carriers also not doing really anything much one way or the other, could it be that the situation in DEN has stabilized somewhat, and maybe will right-size itself to continue supporting the hubs for three airlines?

However, I do worry most about F9. They seem to be cutting to a point where maybe now a lot of their connecting possibilities get reduced. Although on the other hand, maybe time to focus on the O&D, and start getting more revenue out of the flights that they do have? Let both UA and WN take the less-revenue producing connections. This could be a real big improvement for F9 in itself.


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4262 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 8945 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA LAX-ELP FEB 1.5>1.0

I fly this route all the time. I've done it on WN (standing room only), on AE (full plane), and OO-UAX (late plane, cancelled flight, plane gone mx) . UAX seem to be deliberately driving customers away through incompetent dispatching on the LAX-ELP route.

Last Saturday I actually bought a safety one-way LAX-ELP ticket on AE rather than risking getting stranded at LAX. Chatting on the AE plane while flying back to El Paso, it would appear several other passengers had done the same thing.

It's all very frustrating for passengers who want to remain Mileage Plus.


User currently onlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1320 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8847 times:

IAH-YEG is up? Has that happened before on this route?

Is Texas-Alberta traffice increasing due to oil sands/energy demand?
how is IAH-YYC doing on CO/AC or DFW YYC?

Alberta, the Texas of Canada   or is it Texas the Alberta of America? j/k



Ciao Windjet mi manchi
User currently offlinemiaami From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 578 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8808 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL ATL-GYE FEB 0.1>0 MAR 0.2>0 APR 0.1>0 MAY 0.1>0 JUN 0.2>0 JUL 1.0>0

Is this going seasonal or is DL pulling out of GYE?


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4262 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8797 times:
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Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 6):
Is Texas-Alberta traffic increasing due to oil sands/energy demand?
how is IAH-YYC doing on CO/AC or DFW YYC?

Calgary ( YYC ) is often referred to as Canada's Denver.

So I guess Alberta would be Canada's Colorado.   


User currently offlineflyingcaT From United States of America, joined May 2007, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8760 times:

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 2):

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
B6 JFK-SFO JAN 2>3 FEB 2>4 MAR 1.8>3 APR 1.9>3

I wonder if this has to do with AA cutting one flight on the route and/or trying to establish themselves more in the SFO area...  .

Another factor is VX is now 5x daily. Although B6 should not worry since the only overlap they have with VX is leisure pax. VX is looking to take more share on the business and agency side from AA, UA and DL.


User currently offlineflyb From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 685 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8738 times:

Alberta is Canada's Texas. This is the first time this route has gone twice daily. Odd second flight, leaves at midnight for IAH. Probably designed to pick up passengers from up north after their shift is finished. Nice to see the routes upgraded this year to a 737-800 as well.

Still no flights to DFW from Edmonton, thought they would have a route there by now. Maybe with the Alliance with AA this will change.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8801 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8710 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting miaami (Reply 7):

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL ATL-GYE FEB 0.1>0 MAR 0.2>0 APR 0.1>0 MAY 0.1>0 JUN 0.2>0 JUL 1.0>0

Is this going seasonal or is DL pulling out of GYE?

It appears that DL is dropping its weekly service into Guayaquil. Not surprising...


User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6311 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8629 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AA JFK-PLS DEC 1.0>0.5

Right at the start of high season in Turks & Caicos. Interesting...


User currently onlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1298 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 8629 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AA LAX-SJU DEC 0.3>0

I could see this route not coming back.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL ATL-GYE FEB 0.1>0 MAR 0.2>0 APR 0.1>0 MAY 0.1>0 JUN 0.2>0 JUL 1.0>0

Surprised cut here.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

YV HNL-ITO DEC 4>3 JAN 5>4 FEB 6>5 MAR 5>4 APR 5>4 MAY 5>4 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4

I not sure I even see them around 1 year from now. With their CR2 flying gone from UA last year, set to expire with US this winter, I'm not sure they want to hang onto 4-5 CRJs just for this operation


User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1906 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8534 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AA LAX-SJU DEC 0.3>0

This route has always perplexed me. IIRC this is a route started by and inherited from TWA, but it seems like a long, thin, low-yielding route. Could somebody perhaps expand on this? Is there a large Puerto Rican population in LA or are there some business ties between the two cities? If airlines are having a tough time making a go of CUN, it just surprises me that LAX-SJU exists at all.


User currently offlinekingcavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1303 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8483 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
More cuts driven by fleet more than seasonality I think

Not sure why you see the F9 reductions in a different light. It appears all airlines are cutting capacity during the slower shoulder season. I think the F9 seasonal reductions are right in line with what the industry is doing. It pleases me to see F9 cutting flying during the unprofitable time of year.



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlinejacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8421 times:

Quoting flyingcaT (Reply 9):

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
B6 JFK-SFO JAN 2>3 FEB 2>4 MAR 1.8>3 APR 1.9>3

I wonder if this has to do with AA cutting one flight on the route and/or trying to establish themselves more in the SFO area... .

Another factor is VX is now 5x daily. Although B6 should not worry since the only overlap they have with VX is leisure pax. VX is looking to take more share on the business and agency side from AA, UA and DL.

True...  .

AA at one point though needs to start defending its "turf" - after all, New York is one of their "cornerstone" cities.

I think AA is cutting a frequency due to pilot shortages and/or C/D checks on their B767's as well. According to AA's schedule, they will add the 5th flight back.

There was a discussion of this on flyertalk.



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7110 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8403 times:

Quoting globalflyer (Reply 1):
I believe that 6G is the new Sun Air International that is flying out of FLL to the Bahamas.
http://www.gosunair.com/
The CEO was the founder of Gulfstream Int'l.

Unsurprising lineage.  
Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 2):

Thanks for the update enilria..  

 
Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 2):

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
B6 JFK-SFO JAN 2>3 FEB 2>4 MAR 1.8>3 APR 1.9>3

I wonder if this has to do with AA cutting one flight on the route and/or trying to establish themselves more in the SFO area...  .

2 RTs is pretty pitiful in that market regardless of the time of the year. I think all the airlines are guilty of looking more at seasonal profits than the greater need to retain business passengers the rest of the year by having a decent schedule.

Quoting jacobin777 (Reply 2):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AA ORD-LGA DEC 14>13

According to DL's timetable, they are cutting this from 12 daily to 8 daily (8 daily starts on 12-17-2011 according to DL's timetables). DL will be increasing it back up in 2012.

I'm not sure if the DL change was loaded already. Mid-month temporary changes don't appear very clearly in this report format.

Quoting point2point (Reply 4):
could it be that the situation in DEN has stabilized somewhat

Stabilized meaning that WN is "winning"? I'm not sure that is truly stability.

Quoting point2point (Reply 4):
However, I do worry most about F9. They seem to be cutting to a point where maybe now a lot of their connecting possibilities get reduced.

Running 3 ABQs for example will be very bad. That market is due South of DEN. It connects East and West. With only 3 flights it will have a hideous connecting schedule of 1 connection to most everywhere.

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 6):
IAH-YEG is up? Has that happened before on this route?

Is Texas-Alberta traffice increasing due to oil sands/energy demand?
how is IAH-YYC doing on CO/AC or DFW YYC?

Yup

Quoting miaami (Reply 7):
Is this going seasonal or is DL pulling out of GYE?
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 11):
Quoting miaami (Reply 7):

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL ATL-GYE FEB 0.1>0 MAR 0.2>0 APR 0.1>0 MAY 0.1>0 JUN 0.2>0 JUL 1.0>0

Is this going seasonal or is DL pulling out of GYE?

It appears that DL is dropping its weekly service into Guayaquil. Not surprising...

It looks to me like it is gone for the duration.

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 13):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AA LAX-SJU DEC 0.3>0

I could see this route not coming back.
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 14):
but it seems like a long, thin, low-yielding route.

I don't even know if B6 would want that route. It does seem like something out of a 1972 Pan Am timetable, but it must be good to not get axed in the AA SJU bloodletting.

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 13):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

YV HNL-ITO DEC 4>3 JAN 5>4 FEB 6>5 MAR 5>4 APR 5>4 MAY 5>4 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4

I not sure I even see them around 1 year from now.

high five on that prediction

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 15):
Not sure why you see the F9 reductions in a different light.

My sources say that there are several A319s where the lessors are not going to allow the Lavs to be removed or repositioned and that up to 5 A319s may leave the fleet in January as a result. I think this schedule change is partial confirmation of that. So, these are not seasonal changes I don't think.


User currently offlinekingcavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1303 posts, RR: 17
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8352 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):
My sources say that there are several A319s where the lessors are not going to allow the Lavs to be removed or repositioned and that up to 5 A319s may leave the fleet in January as a result. I think this schedule change is partial confirmation of that. So, these are not seasonal changes I don't think.

Then those lessors are idiots. They'd rather pull an A319 from F9? Add more Airbus to the market? Dumb. Your source doesn't make sense. A lav can be added back just as easily as it can be pulled. F9 would be required to put it back in the original formation prior to returning it to the lessor.

I believe if A319's are leaving it is simply due to not getting the financial terms worked out, i.e. the lessor doesn't want what F9 says they're willing to pay. They don't want to play ball, but there are many others that have to play. No big loss if the A319's leave.



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2749 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8318 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):
My sources say that there are several A319s where the lessors are not going to allow the Lavs to be removed or repositioned and that up to 5 A319s may leave the fleet in January as a result.


I'm not sure how to take this, but if BB is fooling around with the lavs on the leased aircraft, just to get a couple of more seats.... (is there a "roll my eyes around" smiley here?) this is truly bad.

I hope this isn't true, and that maybe your sources somehow misheard this, but it would be really disappointing if so that 5 aircraft leaving because of this, and well..... it seems strange things of this nature keep emerging from RAH, so......


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5495 posts, RR: 29
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 8317 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
YV HNL-ITO DEC 4>3 JAN 5>4 FEB 6>5 MAR 5>4 APR 5>4 MAY 5>4 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4
YV HNL-OGG DEC 6>7

What a waste. The employees of the former Aloha must feel sick seeing the "success" of Go!. I have no problem with Go! entering the market, but it's unfortunate that people there actually chose them enough to make them viable at the expense of Aloha.

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 18):
No big loss if the A319's leave.

Were they to lose 5 aircraft unexpectedly, I'm not sure I'd characterize that as "no big loss", even if it is January. ERJ's leaving, E170's leaving, E190's delayed - at some point you want to see some growth in the fleet to balance that. I know that some Airbii are coming, but if this is a loss of 5 "additional" aircraft, that is a big hit.

To me, anyway.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinekingcavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1303 posts, RR: 17
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8182 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 19):
I'm not sure how to take this, but if BB is fooling around with the lavs on the leased aircraft, just to get a couple of more seats.... (is there a "roll my eyes around" smiley here?) this is truly bad.

He is considering removing the third lav, but this is really more appropriate for the Frontier thread. It is discussed in this article -

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_19252238

F9 has 3 lavs. WN only has 2. It shouldn't be that big of a deal to lose one of the lavs and to put in some more seats. He wants 3 more seats on the A319 and 6 more seats on the A320.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 20):
Were they to lose 5 aircraft unexpectedly, I'm not sure I'd characterize that as "no big loss", even if it is January. ERJ's leaving, E170's leaving, E190's delayed - at some point you want to see some growth in the fleet to balance that. I know that some Airbii are coming, but if this is a loss of 5 "additional" aircraft, that is a big hit.

I get what you're saying, but I'm simply not alarmed. He wants bigger A320's anyways.



Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2749 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8141 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 17):
Quoting point2point (Reply 4):
could it be that the situation in DEN has stabilized somewhat

Stabilized meaning that WN is "winning"? I'm not sure that is truly stability.


I'm not quite so sure that anyone here has really won yet.

All the airlines here now probably realize that over-capacity and $9 or $10 fares are not what it takes to make a profit, and this goes for any city. But in DEN, there are advantages... and as each carve out their niche, I think that all can find their way to make their $$$$.

At least from a consumer standpoint, it's great having three major hubbers here, as well as almost all of the other majors and minors... I really wouldn't want that to change...  


User currently onlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6742 posts, RR: 32
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8124 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-HOU JAN 3>1.7 FEB 3>1.6
F9 DEN-MDW JAN 4>3 FEB 4>3
F9 DEN-SAT JAN 1.9>1.1 FEB 1.9>1.0

These frequencies will be simply uncompetitive. UA will offer 11 daily DEN-IAH and 9 daily DEN-ORD frequencies, while WN will offer 4 daily DEN-HOU and 9 daily DEN-MDW frequencies. Similarly, a single daily flight to SAT will struggle without connecting options through other cities.

Quoting point2point (Reply 4):
I do worry most about F9. They seem to be cutting to a point where maybe now a lot of their connecting possibilities get reduced. Although on the other hand, maybe time to focus on the O&D, and start getting more revenue out of the flights that they do have? Let both UA and WN take the less-revenue producing connections. This could be a real big improvement for F9 in itself.

The issue is that below a certain amount of frequency (higher in short-haul, lower in longer-haul), the schedule becomes unattractive for higher-revenue flyers. So they end up having to attract more price-sensitive traffic which cares less about the exact time of the flight. On certain routes, (in my opinion, of course) they're dropping below the minimum frequencies they'll need to stay relevant to anyone other than bargain-seekers.

Quoting flyingcaT (Reply 9):
Another factor is VX is now 5x daily. Although B6 should not worry since the only overlap they have with VX is leisure pax. VX is looking to take more share on the business and agency side from AA, UA and DL.

B6 hates VX. You can bet that B6 wants those corporate travel dollars just as much as VX.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5495 posts, RR: 29
Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 8011 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 19):
I hope this isn't true, and that maybe your sources somehow misheard this, but it would be really disappointing if so that 5 aircraft leaving because of this, and well..... it seems strange things of this nature keep emerging from RAH, so......

I have no problem with their desire to pull the lavs and put in more seats, if that's how they make it work. If they suddenly are losing 5 buses because of it, then that might create a little bit of a problem unless it's already been factored in.

Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 21):
I get what you're saying, but I'm simply not alarmed. He wants bigger A320's anyways.

Oh sure, I agree. A320's seem to be the new sweetspot for F9 (and others). However, we are two months out from January and to lose 3-5 aircraft at that time - while not as bad as summer - will be a hit without something else already lined up.

Again, it might be much less dramatic that I make it sound. Maybe they'll save money in the dead of winter?

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
25 kingcavalier : I think that's the main goal. Stem the losses during the slower winter months. BB has said they cannot have a repeat of the same quarter last year. I
26 Post contains images mariner : I'm scratching my head as to why the lessors would object - if they have. They don't object to Frontier adding LiveTV, which involves a structural ch
27 kingcavalier : What is your definition of winning? Is WN winning DEN? Is UA winning DEN? Do you have to have a loser in order to have a winner? Some times I think y
28 BD338 : surprising? Or is it a) usual or b) driven by increased capacity from the A380 on that route?
29 enilria : I think it is a bigger deal than you make it out to be. Part of the problem is that when you remove a Lav it can cause a level of work akin to a C-ch
30 mariner : Happily, there will still be some Apple flying during the summer - that's been known since the day the Apple contract was announced. mariner
31 yellowtail : This is designed to connect to CO morning bank to places like RTB, BZE etc. Calgary / Edmonton traffic is huge to this region. Was on a CO flight 2 w
32 MaverickM11 : Personally I think SQ's LAXSIN must be terrible--an ultra longhaul, gas guzzling, all business layout to LAX can not possibly be net profitable. Perh
33 mariner : But Frontier is not losing 5 Airbuses because of it. The only Airbus aircraft leaving the fleet in the first part of the year are the ones that were
34 mah4546 : It actually does quite well, as the only non-stop between the Caribbean and Los Angeles, or the entire West Coast for that matter. It is being suspen
35 flyb : Good to know, I did more research here at YEG, looks like it will finally allow connection to Air Canada flights to Northern Alberta and Yellowknife.
36 Post contains images point2point : okay okay okay...... okay okay okay..... Still, when marketing, and where image can be very important - talking about lavatories in the newspaper jus
37 MaverickM11 : Do you really think AA would be cutting it in December if it was so good?
38 slcdeltarumd11 : I think the answer is that no one is really winning in denver. Certainly no one is really making a ton of money thats for sure. No one is winning but
39 smoot4208 : I know it use to be operated daily, then when oil peaked in 2008, they announced they were quitting the route. Then it came back 4 x Weekly (Thu-Sun)
40 PlanesNTrains : True. It's not "less important" if it's going to be spun down the road into something that it's not. For example: So which is it? The lessors are obj
41 Post contains links mariner : The dickie birds are still chirping and no one can work out why the lessors would object since - they say - the lavs are a self contained unit. I don
42 mah4546 : Given how badly they need pilots - yes. Even MIAEZE is seeing cuts in December. I doubt it's an amazing performer, but it holds it weight just fine.
43 LAXintl : The count was 68, of which only actually 47 were active anyhow. The exact breakdown was: Capt: 777 - 8 767 - 14 737 - 2 S80 - 13 F/O: 777 - 2 767 - 2
44 Post contains links enilria : I stated above the reasons, but again the bottom line is that 5 planes are leaving the fleet and if Mariner says it is just normal seasonal adjustmen
45 mariner : I've asked you before - I'll ask you again - please stop putting words in my mouth. I have not mentioned the words "seasonal adjustment" in this thre
46 n7371f : I guess the "general rule of thumb" didn't apply to upwards of 200 DC-9 series planes that Northwest overhauled and installed a forward lavatory. Or
47 n7371f : Frontier removes the lavs. Upon return to lessor, during the C-check required, Frontier reinstalls the 3rd lavatory that's been in storage. Pretty si
48 Post contains links enilria : I said we did *not* have completely overlapping sources. So, I'm not sure what you are arguing. Well, we wouldn't want anyone criticizing Frontier. T
49 bobnwa : What time period are you talking about when you say WN is making money? they definitly last money in the 3rd quarter which was the most recent quarte
50 kingcavalier : I'm not sure why it quoted me, but I didn't say that. I certainly think WN is losing money in DEN.
51 n7371f : Again as someone else noted above...the same lessors allowed a hole cut in the roof of the fuselage for a satellite dish, which upon return has to be
52 FutureUScapt : To note, MCI-SAT will be discontinued after 03Jan. The frequency reduction in DEN-SAT is seasonal and is slated to return to a 2x pattern in March.[E
53 Post contains images enilria : WN (the airline) made money in the 3rd Quarter, they just had hedging losses. That's not really meaningful. Wall Street didn't consider it meaningful
54 Post contains links mariner : I won't use the word now, either - I'll let others do that: http://www.kmir6.com/news/local/127278628.html "Frontier Airlines Comes to Palm Springs I
55 enilria : I don't see what the press release has to do with it, there was a once per week service loaded for sale into the Summer on DEN-PSP and now it is not.
56 mariner : The press release has everything to do with it. The service was announced as seasonal. There - I've said it, at last. If there was something differen
57 MasseyBrown : In retrospect, the profits were considered very meaningful when the airline was losing buckets and the hedges were golden. Times change and expectati
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