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BA May Have To Cut Flights On LOS Route  
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 16902 times:

Just doing my weekly check of the BA source and saw this

Quote:
3rd November 2011 - Lagos Flights under threat in Landing Rights Row.
British Airways flights from London Heathrow - Lagos could be slashed from seven to three per week from next Tuesday 8 November after the Nigerian government withdrew rights to operate on the other days. The row stems from Nigeria’s Arik Air being unable to utilise all its permitted 21 flights per week from Nigeria - UK into London Heathrow due to lack of available slots. To make matters more inconvenient for British Airways the three permitted Lagos slots have been switched from a 1730 landing and 2245 take off to a 0600 landing and a 1000 take off.

Its only just coming out on the news sites

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukp...zw6xKg?docId=N0448301320337771286A

http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/...es-ba-s-flights-to-nigeria/101926/

http://www.boston.com/news/world/eur...ritish_airways_flights_from_lagos/


This will cause a problem or 2!!

193 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5163 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 16838 times:

Why dont Arik fly to LGW instead?

User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 16818 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 1):

Question is why do they send 737s here!! They could utilise a connection to where ever the 340 flys from and use that saved flight for an extra service.


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17051 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 16794 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 1):
Why dont Arik fly to LGW instead?

The same reason why every carrier wants to fly into LHR and not LGW.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlinesantos From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 739 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 16714 times:

What about VS? They also fly to LOS, not sure about frequency.

User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 16664 times:

Quoting santos (Reply 4):
What about VS? They also fly to LOS, not sure about frequency.

Its a government spat, they will go for the biggest name carrier on the route. More people know BA more then VS. All the news articles only mention BA


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3198 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16334 times:

Arik Air just dropped Abuja-LHR on the B738 but still have LOS-LHR on the A345 with the occasional B738. If they're not filling the A345 what is the issue?

User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16265 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 6):
Arik Air just dropped Abuja-LHR on the B738 but still have LOS-LHR on the A345 with the occasional B738. If they're not filling the A345 what is the issue?

They have suspended ABV? Hmmm wonder why they want more slots then


User currently onlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5163 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16214 times:

Quoting santos (Reply 4):
What about VS? They also fly to LOS, not sure about frequency.

But BA have 14 frequencies to Nigeria and VS have 7.... so cut the one with the most frequencies.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 3):
The same reason why every carrier wants to fly into LHR and not LGW.

But if you cant get LHR slots then you go elsewhere.... The bilateral is between countries... not between Nigeria and LHR


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17051 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16178 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 8):
But if you cant get LHR slots then you go elsewhere.... The bilateral is between countries... not between Nigeria and LHR

Well tell that to the Nigerian government.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7458 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16096 times:

What are Arik's LF like.

User currently onlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5163 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16096 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 9):
Well tell that to the Nigerian government.

I will when I travel there to collect my lottery cheque - Just received an email saying I had won and just need to send my bank details!  


User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17051 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16062 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 11):
I will when I travel there to collect my lottery cheque - Just received an email saying I had won and just need to send my bank details!

Oh well too bad, I was quicker than you. Already sent them my bank details  

You gotta love those emails, dont you  



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7458 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 15908 times:

If Arik has 21 flights a week, and BA has 7, then perhaps the UK should consider reduction of Arik to 3 a week as well.

What is good for the goose is good for the Gander.


User currently onlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 15522 times:

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 13):
If Arik has 21 flights a week, and BA has 7, then perhaps the UK should consider reduction of Arik to 3 a week as well.

What is good for the goose is good for the Gander.

Arik only has 3 flights a week..


User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7458 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 15417 times:

Not according to the OP.

"The row stems from Nigeria’s Arik Air being unable to utilise all its permitted 21 flights per week from Nigeria - UK into London".


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3198 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15387 times:

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 14):
Arik only has 3 flights a week..

No they do not, they have a daily A340-500 on LHR-LOS, W3101 / 102.
Arrives at the same time as WY101 from Muscat much to the annoyance of ATC....


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5182 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15277 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 16):
Arrives at the same time as WY101 from Muscat much to the annoyance of ATC....

Why? It's not as if "Oman Air" and "Arik Air" are so similar to be grounds for confusion?



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineFeroze From India, joined Dec 2004, 794 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 15186 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 17):

Why? It's not as if "Oman Air" and "Arik Air" are so similar to be grounds for confusion?

But the flight numbers are exactly the same.


User currently onlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 15147 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 16):
No they do not, they have a daily A340-500 on LHR-LOS, W3101 / 102.
Arrives at the same time as WY101 from Muscat much to the annoyance of ATC...

Sorry...i was thinking of JFK for some reason....


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5566 posts, RR: 36
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15107 times:

I really hate such stupid and childish behaviour by governements. It is probably an owngoal for Nigeria.

User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5182 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14835 times:

Quoting Feroze (Reply 18):
But the flight numbers are exactly the same.

But the call signs are totally different.

If we had, say, "Arik Air 101" and "Delta 101" then maybe that's justified given the room for confusion associated with "Delta" but I somehow doubt that an Arik Air pilot would get confused by "Oman Air 101"



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineha763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3634 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14745 times:
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Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 21):
But the call signs are totally different.

If we had, say, "Arik Air 101" and "Delta 101" then maybe that's justified given the room for confusion associated with "Delta" but I somehow doubt that an Arik Air pilot would get confused by "Oman Air 101"

You would be surprised. I know of instances where HA and AQ pilots mistakenly responded to ATC because of similar, not only identical, flight numbers. AQ's call sign was Aloha and Hawaiian's is Hawaiian. Hard to confuse, but it has happened.


User currently offlineebbuk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 14562 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 8):

"Quoting B747forever (Reply 3):
The same reason why every carrier wants to fly into LHR and not LGW.

But if you cant get LHR slots then you go elsewhere.... The bilateral is between countries... not between Nigeria and LHR"


Your reply sounds very colonial. Let the natives go to our other airport, we'll have the main one. Bilateral agreement must be equal too, surely?

Quoting ZRH (Reply 20):

"I really hate such stupid and childish behaviour by governements. It is probably an owngoal for Nigeria."

Another very colonial sounding comment. You may not know it but lots of Africa's nations are 50yrs or so. In those years, many have done deals with Europe and their own colonial powers which were designed to improve life and open commerce, increase wealth for the new emerging nations. It hasn't happened. Many of the agreements are biased towards the West.

It can't carry on. BA cannot expect prime slots at both airports without giving up a similar amount for the Nigerian carrier. Would it be so bombastic with AF, CX, EK for example, then claim that it is an innocent party?
There is talk of an African Spring going on at the same time as the Arab Spring. It would appear that now it isn't enough to pay bribes to officials to keep the status quo. Perhaps Nigerians have always wanted to play in the main league rather than be known as scamming individuals? Let us hope so.

Arik Air sounds like it is a fine airline and I for one would not want to see it be bullied to failure by the British by being forced to take scraps. Stand strong African Lion!

UPDATE.
IAG buy BMI from Lufthansa. Now no excuse to blame the government and offer up slots and play on a level playing field.

[Edited 2011-11-04 00:30:44]

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15717 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 14552 times:

Guys, this is Nigeria. It's nothing a little bribe couldn't fix.


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
25 lhr380 : Umm, BA buys the slots that become available, its not something they have control over. They are not stopping Arik coming in, there are no slots in L
26 Lufthansa : Well I am going to upset some people but I am going to say BA STAND STRONG! This is one time it may pay BA and VS to work together because they're ult
27 Post contains images gkirk : Wrong. There are slots available at LHR, just not at prime times
28 skipness1E : Similar sounding accent arriving on the same routing over Lambourne at the same time every night, to land on the same runway. Believe you me it can b
29 lhr380 : Sorry, thats what I meant, no slots at the time they want.
30 bennett123 : Perhaps someone can clarify. According to the OP, Arik currently has 21 flights a week on this route. BA currently has 1 return per day. Therefore CUR
31 skipness1E : It's seven, a once daily A340-500 that some nights operates as a B737-800.
32 ogepma : This is simply a reaction by the Nigerian government because someone has upset them or is not playing ball. I highly doubt Arik is filling its 738's t
33 Post contains images bennett123 : iirc, a few months ago DL(?) wanted to operate a B767 to Nigeria. Nigeria then kicked off and demanded a B777. Then Arik use a B737-800. Perhaps the U
34 ebbuk : "BA has done nothing wrong here. Those of you going on about 'you're acting like colonials'... where is your loyalty to a British company being Bulli
35 ba319-131 : - Indeed, I'm sure you are correct. This is just another shining example of how Nigeria operates, I don't think I need go further........
36 skipness1E : Or you could start with a B737 at a sub-optimal time and make a go of it and build from there like everyone else. The slots are so bad they're in the
37 ebbuk : Quoting BMI727 (Reply 24): this is Nigeria. It's nothing a little bribe couldn't fix. - Indeed, I'm sure you are correct. This is just another shinin
38 kl692 : Hmmm I wonder if CO starting their service there might play a roll in this decision making even though it's different routes. This might not be so bad
39 fcogafa : An article on the net states that the Abuja slots were leased from another carrier, can't remember which, and were quite expensive so ARA were no long
40 B747-4U3 : Arik Air is free to fly to Heathrow, and does indeed fly there because they have managed to get slots. If they could not get slots, then they could u
41 outbackair : LOS-ABV - Arik didn't choose to pull out, they were forced out. This flight was only 5 times a week. LOS-LHR - The 738 has been used for a while becau
42 bennett123 : IIRC, Arik has a poor reputation regarding prompt payment.
43 Post contains links I380North : This is ARIK side of the story as told by a newman. For whatever is worth. http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/...rik-operations-to-heathrow/101569/ W
44 oneworld77 : Hmmm, lets see here, ex Colonials operating in to LHR: Aer Lingus; South African; Qantas; Air New Zealand; Gulf Air; Emirates; Oman Air; Yemenia; Mal
45 brj : I believe the '21' number comes from the # of slots. Wasn't it mentioned that there are 21 slots allowed for British carriers, and therefore, there s
46 SonomaFlyer : Does the bilateral agreement specify x number of slots at LHR for Nigerian carriers? Does it stipulate a time period? Part of the problem is Nigeria's
47 anstar : Probably because they cant pay their bills on time - which has seen other aircraft grounded at outstations.
48 B767300ER : Re confusion over different airlines with same fligh number, not too long ago, late 1990's at TLV there was confusion over ground control and eithe Ai
49 jet72uk : Why is B747forever wrong about everything?
50 RoseFlyer : Interesting that since Arik is restricted and can't get prime time slots at LHR, they want to make BA suffer and not be able to offer prime time slots
51 ebbuk : The Nigerians will suffer? The fact that the UK is not playing fair isn't hurting the Nigerians? You want to use the same argument Thatcher used when
52 ba319-131 : - This is a pathetic non argument. The 767 is a work horse that travels major trunk routes through the world, if Nigerians think they are getting old
53 Humberside : But it is no leverage. The UK government has no control over the LHR slot co-ordinator. I'm not quite sure what can it can do. Government interferenc
54 FCAFLYBOY : I'm sorry ebbuk, I think you have issues with the UK that bear no relevance to the BA/Arik flights dispute, and I don't see what relevance your commen
55 FCAFLYBOY : If it DID happen how soon could the Nigerian authorities bring in these changes?
56 B747-4U3 : Why will BA loosing 4 slots per week to Lagos benefit Nigerians? BA loose 4 slots, Arik gain NONE. Therefore there will be 4 weekly flights less. I w
57 ebbuk : "The fact is, Arik have 21 perfectly suitable slots that are no more or less convenient than BA's or VS's. I don't hear Branson crying himself to sle
58 AIR MALTA : Ebbuk you are making fool of yourself... The 744 flies on almost all the LHR-JFK runs which way more important than the LOS route. I think you are a
59 FCAFLYBOY : Well golly gosh gosh, BA regularly fly 4-class 777/747's to LOS and still do, they don't have the A380 (yet) or the 748 (again, yet)- so really, LOS d
60 B747-4U3 : All of British Airways' long-haul fleet have a consistent product (ok, some aircraft have a newer First and the 767s have the older - albeit still fl
61 ebbuk : Hey calm down, I was responding to a quote that was an aside to the point of the thread. My bad that you couldn't follow the previous conversation I
62 ba319-131 : - Totally agree. Ebbuk, you are talking total rubbish, you have nothing backing up the text you place here, get a grip with reality and common sense,
63 B747-4U3 : Small island....would that be Canvey Island, Isle of Dogs, Isle of Wight or Isle of Sheppey?[Edited 2011-11-05 14:15:25]
64 Post contains images FCAFLYBOY : The irony is I was born in Abuja lol . Albeit I grew up in Brighton, on a very small island.
65 ebbuk : Ok it's getting personal. I am getting in the way of what is a serious issue that needs sorting. I am out.
66 Bogota : For corruption to exist you need at least 2 individuals, a corrupt one that pays the bribe and a corrupt one that receives it.
67 theginge : Arik is not the only airline that wants LHR, lots of airlines that fly to Gatwick would probably like to come to LHR. So if Arik is given slots for n
68 Post contains images ebbuk : Quoting ebbuk (Reply 61): I won't comment about the other rascist stuff from small island person. Small island....would that be Canvey Island, Isle o
69 ba319-131 : - It's not getting personal, reality has set in and you have nothing that is worth talking about.
70 1stfl94 : The last I heard on here was that Arik seemed to be in quite of financial trouble. Could this be a move to help their situation by making their chief
71 ebbuk : "The last I heard on here was that Arik seemed to be in quite of financial trouble. Could this be a move to help their situation by making their chie
72 skipness1E : Arik cannot treat the slot as an asset to borrow against as it does not appear on the balance sheet as an owned asset. Dude you contradict yourself ag
73 Lufthansa : Just the same as BA flies ageing 747s To New York, LAX, South Africa, Sydney and Hong Kong. Or how Cathay flies aging 747s to LHR (it just announced
74 ebbuk : "Arik cannot treat the slot as an asset to borrow against as it does not appear on the balance sheet as an owned asset. Dude you contradict yourself
75 Lufthansa : There really isn't much to discuss. Somebody in the Nigerian government has decided the way to help there mates at Arik Air is to Bully a private Bri
76 flyibaby : You just answered all of your own complaints throughout this thread in this one sentence. If Nigera is expecting somesort of welfare from the UK Govt
77 flyibaby : I thought I was done with an ealier response, but your economic wisdom leaves alot to be desired here. First, you cannot borrow against something tha
78 Post contains images ebbuk : On the point that pertains to the subject in your long response I reply thus. As far as i can read between the lines Arik Air isn't asking for a "fre
79 FCAFLYBOY : Which, as explained to you over and over and over again, has absolutely nothing to do with BA. Heathrow is a private enterprise, neither BA or the go
80 trintocan : Oh dear. So much emotion on this thread. All the same, let us try to look dispassionately at what is happening here. The starting situation is the bil
81 ebbuk : "If Nigera is expecting somesort of welfare from the UK Govt or British Airways in the form of prime slots at LHR, and for free, then I believe the N
82 skipness1E : Play the ball not the man, you honestly have no understanding of the business!
83 theginge : If Arik is willing to pay for these slots like any other airline then yes they will be able to do that. But are they willing to pay?!
84 skipness1E : Given you have no knowledge of slot allocation, why are you confidently expounding on the subject matter? Arik has shown itself to be just like Niger
85 B747-4U3 : a) The bilateral agreement is enforceable. If Arik Air wanted to fly 21 times per week to the UK - as per the agreement - they are free to do so. b)
86 LJ : Because the Nigerian government prevents BA to use 3 of the 21 weekly flights permitted between Nigeria and the UK. This means that the Nigerian gove
87 FCAFLYBOY : Because IF (and it won't happen IMO) the Nigerian government allow this change to BA's landing rights then they are breaking the agreement, not Arik,
88 ebbuk : Deleted. Posted the draft in error. The final one is posted below. Blasted iPhone. Grrrrr[Edited 2011-11-06 07:23:05]
89 david_itl : You've still not got this in your mind: the bilateral is UK-Nigeria. Not LHR-Nigeria. The Nigerians cannot deny BA operating 4 more flights out of LH
90 ebbuk : My apologies to you. I am responding on the iPhone which takes a longer time than usual. I missed your post the first time round. Thank you for attem
91 B747-4U3 : BA's right to land at Lagos has been reduced. On 4 days per week they cannot fly from anywhere in the UK to Lagos (including from LGW). Furthermore,
92 ssublyme : So much mis-information in this thread. From my understanding BA's frequency to LOS was cut, not their frequency to Nigeria. Just as Arik is reportedl
93 FCAFLYBOY : Well I don't think BA's frequency to LOS has been cut, YET. Arik are not unable to use their slots and that is my argument. Arik has perfectly accepta
94 cslusarc : I just don't get understand why Nigeria can treat both VS and BA equally if they cannot retaliate against LH (the owner of BD) or the UK Slot Coordina
95 ebbuk : "Whatever you "chip-on-the-shoulder" is with BA or the UK, you simply cannot ignore the fact that this action by the Nigerian government is going to
96 B747-4U3 : The problem is you are assuming that Arik Air will magically get extra slots at Heathrow when this is highly unlikely to be the case. Can you please
97 ebbuk : Firstly, don't make assumptions for me. Secondly, you have made your position very clear, in this post. Only time will tell who is right. May there b
98 lewis : Which has nothing to do with BA. Yes, some airlines have bought slots a while back when they were still available. They can either use them or lease
99 FCAFLYBOY : But why should BA have to move some flights to LGW when it is operating perfectly well from LHR, has the slots it want and has a good rep on the rout
100 AIR MALTA : BA has been given another week in which the problem needs to be solved. I suggest if Nigeria force BA to cut their flights, they should force Arik to
101 ebbuk : They don't have to if the government gives in to the demands of the Nigerian government. Could it realistically do so with LHR as congested as it is?
102 lewis : It is not the British Government that has broken a bilateral agreement. In all business and national relations, it is usually the entity that breaks
103 HOONS90 : After reading the articles and arguments that were posted here, I still have trouble figuring out and making sense of the rationale and logic behind N
104 Lufthansa : Think of it like this. If everybody started playing these kinds of games, what would happen? The entire system would implode. You'd have delta blockin
105 FCAFLYBOY : Your source please? You cannot make such a statement without a source.
106 mikey72 : I wish BA would just tell them to stuff it and pull out completely ! LOL (call their bluff) Not good sound business practice I grant you but really !
107 AIR MALTA : May be not pull completely but the UK government should retaliate. The Nigerian government is in breah of the BASA agreements signed between UK and N
108 SKAirbus : This "protectionist" action by the Nigerian government is not limited to the developing world. - Canada try virilantly to protect AC, which can be see
109 oneworld77 : I understand that Safety Regulators have been advised of issue's with W3 and their operations into/through and/or involving LHR. I post this apropros
110 Post contains links ebbuk : I know Armageddon. How exciting would that be as a spectator. If I worked in the industry perhaps I wouldn't be so excited. David and Goliath. Will G
111 oneworld77 : ...goodness, perhaps the 'Colonial Masters' have learnt to play the games of the Nigerian masters, wouldn't that be interesting!! Alledgedly! Not all
112 AIR MALTA : This explains it all... lol
113 Lufthansa : This is not some colonial warfare. If anybody is doing the invading it's Nigeria for unfairly attacking BA. Again WHAT has be done illegal? That's ri
114 ebbuk : I am happy to learn BA man. Hit me up with a link to enlighten me
115 HOONS90 : Why do you think it's a joke? British Airways was minding its own business, operating their daily flight to Lagos fully within the scope of the agree
116 Lufthansa : Arik's A340s are wet leased from HiFly. hmmm This more than anything makes me suspect the carrier is undercapitalised. I see their plans to acquire th
117 ebbuk : I know right? So many on here are chatting like the Nigerians have threatened to bomb the UK or something. This is a spat like many others that happe
118 Lufthansa : And what about a point of equity here? This isn't being applied to VS also. There could be some legal implications there. I'm going to say one thing
119 ebbuk : I will try and answer the whole point as succinctly as I can. BA operates flights in and out of Nigeria as does VS up to the 21 allowed. They knew th
120 AIR MALTA : I declare that the Tunisian governement should axe BA flights to Tunis untill Tunisair gets more slots at LHR. Why not? Tunisair could not add more fl
121 HOONS90 : - It isn't the UK, nor BA's problem that the Nigerian side isn't fully utilizing those rights. - Using BA as a pawn won't achieve a single thing, nor
122 ebbuk : I know right? Whilst I am not aware of the agreement between the two countries, if it was skewed so much in favour of BA then I'd say go for it. I do
123 ebbuk : No one is stealing anything. It is just the opening hours are being changed due to new regulations. You can still make profits at your high end cloth
124 HOONS90 : That's not my point. My point is this: It makes no difference if BA rakes in a big profit or incurrs a major loss on this route. That cannot be used
125 AIR MALTA : In the mean time, other respectable airlines that can not find slots at LHR are looking at LGW like Korean Air, Sri Lankan... They are not balck maili
126 lewis : Other airlines that want to fly the route are free to do so if the bilateral allows them to. Being first to fly a route and establishing yourself is
127 ebbuk : Again i am scratching my head to see where BA is a victim. It will still make money on 3 flights per week. It is a bit inconvenienced (which is the i
128 B747-4U3 : You're comparing an airline that has been around a few years with one that has been around for decades and decades. Whilst factually correct, it is s
129 ebbuk : Oh let's give all who work for her a knighthood. Such a noble company. Most other Nigerian carriers (possibly Arik too) have not had an easy time in
130 lhr380 : 1. So what if BA was once government owned, it has not been for a long time now (24 years now) and does not get help from the government, no bailouts
131 Lufthansa : If the government really want to help Arik, They could increase say landing taxes, and then with the money raised 'lend it' out to Arik to purchase mo
132 lewis : Standing up to what? From all I have read, I cannot see how the British Government or BA are bullying Arik. I can see though how the Nigerian governm
133 ebbuk : It's had 24 yrs of making money without having to pay back anywhere near what it actually cost. The vast profits skimmed of Concorde services have he
134 ebbuk : Because they are inherently disadvantaged against their more established Western counterparts.The very same argument that saw Airbus receive preferen
135 Lufthansa : Okay a few things wrong. Firstly it's a slot, it's not landing fees. They are different and everybody who lands there regardless of the time of day i
136 lewis : Quite irrelevant to the discussion we are having. OK lets say its done, half of BA's flights move to LGW. What's in it for Arik? So instead of having
137 HOONS90 : Let's do a simple test. As a result of the actions of the Nigerian government, has British Airways received harm? Yes. Therefore, British Airways is
138 ebbuk : I thought that the plan was to restrict all BA flights to LOS regardless of origin. In that case, how would your proposition be feasible? I don't kno
139 Post contains links B747-4U3 : http://www.vanguardngr.com/2011/11/f...-face-off-cameron-writes-jonathan/ An interesting article. The British PM has written to his Nigerian counterpa
140 Lufthansa : You know If i were running BA and they pulled this stunt on me, I'd fly to the nearest neighboring country, charter some other airline to link it to m
141 lhr380 : And, not the airlines fault it was government owned, it had a good start in life yes, why blame BA for the fact Arik did not? You mean the vast amoun
142 ebbuk : BD is being bought by BA is it not? Subject to scrutiny by authorities. There is a mention of the six slots being used by BA almost immediately. I do
143 Post contains links ebbuk : The article below explains Nigeria's position in the matter very clearly. I understand that the source is a Nigerian paper. Quote fair use "FAAN MD ex
144 lhr380 : Im quiet calm thanks, I was responding to your post.
145 ba319-131 : “Arik Air quietly went to negotiate five slots a week into Heathrow from Abuja, paying about £600,000 to have the opportunity to lease the slots, a
146 Lufthansa : The joke about all of this is both airlines could end up at Gatwick if they're not careful now they have governments involved in this. VS could end up
147 B747-4U3 : That is irrelevant. The increase in leasing costs of those slots has taken place before confirmation that BA will purchase BD. The slot issue is ther
148 B747-4U3 : The accussed has ranged from British Airways to restricting access, to British Midland restricting access, to the British government restricting acce
149 lhr380 : Both airlines?
150 Lufthansa : well if this comes down to hammering out some new bilateral agreement as the only way to solve it, and the nigerians simply can't get the slots they
151 Post contains links B747-4U3 : http://news.officialwire.com/main.php?action=posted_news&rid=305604 Another interesting read on the situation.
152 Post contains links VV701 : I suspect neither. In slot constrained airports within the EU a slot is only valid for either the Summer or the Winter Season. So key words in the ab
153 mikey72 : Well I thought that but I think it has always had more to do with the very finacially astute Nigerians not liking outsiders making money out of them.
154 Post contains links and images VV701 : View Large View MediumPhoto © Dennis Lau It was rolled out in Nigeria Airways colours on 1 December 1999. It carried mall 'BRITISH AIRWAYS' titles an
155 Post contains links ebbuk : Now it is gettin hot. Too hot for the Nigerians when one of their own wades in? Years of slavery and generations of Nigerians lost as young men and w
156 mikey72 : Hey look I totally agree, I've got a problem with the EU headquarters in Brussels trying to tell us all what to do. So I totally understand but I hav
157 ebbuk : Dude get a room then you can discuss all your problems to the walls. Leave us here to discuss the merits, or lack thereof, of this protest. I beg you
158 mikey72 : No problem as long as you stop living in the past. Deal ? (and i'm not a dude)
159 ebbuk : I am right up to the present. How wrong of me to ever think that you could be a dude? I am sorry
160 mikey72 : Don't worry about it. I might be alot of things but 'dude' ain't one of them. Getting back on topic...I've been on enough BA flights to Nigeria to kn
161 Post contains images VV701 : The painting of a BA aircraft in Nigeria Airways livery did not last long. But then nothing has lasted too long. It soon became clear that operatting
162 Post contains links B747-4U3 : Would you believe it, those colonialist Brits have done it again, this time picking on the Chinese! Now Air China To Start LGW Service (by jet72uk Nov
163 FCAFLYBOY : But you did not quote speculation, you stated 'fact' so prove it. You are doing a great job for the most part of avoiding providing a source or point
164 mikey72 : We should sell the Isle Of WIght to China (god knows we need the money). They can build a great big airport on it. Build another tunnel to France fro
165 FCAFLYBOY : Actually, joking aside, not a bad idea! Then they can sell some additional slots to Arik haha.
166 soups : storyline........is BA going 3 weekly or not? lol
167 Post contains links ebbuk : According to the article below, they will do as of tomorrow, if the talks breakdown. http://allafrica.com/stories/201111140463.html Never one to get
168 RIXrat : From the Photo in the article above that ebbuk mentioned, I didn't know that Arik Air flew A380s. By all means, bring them on.
169 lhr380 : They dont. May have them on order, but they dont have any in service. Actually, do they have them on order?
170 anstar : So you are implying that before BA even proposed to buy their competitor BD that they called them up and told them to increase their fees to Arik? I
171 ebbuk : No they don't. Well I couldn't possibly say. But the timing and coincidence is shocking. BD was sinking when it leased the slots, then when it was ab
172 Post contains links anstar : Another article here http://leadership.ng/nga/articles/82...ciprocity_aviation_agreements.html Now as for your comment on whats a few hundred more pou
173 Post contains links ebbuk : How delicious of you to quote just one part of the article and omit the kernel of case from that source. I have it here to save you reading the artic
174 mikey72 : Oh god...yawn ! Double yawn. Ever heard of market economics ? The price is what the market is prepared to pay. Please don't forget that this route ha
175 ebbuk : A right royal spat like the one that is carrying on now. I do despair for you sometimes mikey.
176 AIR MALTA : Ebbuk thinks that Nigeria is above all nations in the world and its airlines suffering racism and attacks.Nigeria and Nigerian Airlines should learn
177 mikey72 : Thanks for your concern, duly noted. I think it's more of a case of toys being thrown out of the pram to be honest. What any of it has to do with BA
178 anstar : Actually I posted 2 parts that I thought were relevant. The paragraph that says "Harrassing BA" as the govt of Nigeria are targeting BA and not VS. A
179 jet72uk : B747-U43 Air China have had to start flights to LGW due to a lack of slots at LHR. How could the British government (and let's not forget BA) act in s
180 skipness1E : Are you saying that hiking the price up to an unreasonable level is corrupt? Is this corruption by Nigerian standards of endemic political and instit
181 B747-4U3 : The slots issue surfaced in the media after the takeover was announced, it likely arose long before the takeover was announced. Basing timescales on
182 lewis : You still haven't managed (neither have they) to show us where there is "unfair treatment" in this whole story. All I see is that Arik cannot afford
183 ebbuk : I can't even deal. Leave well alone. The high road is my road! Well that's cleared that up. Business for you by any means necessary. Very clear. I kn
184 lewis : I read the quote you posted earlier and I have heard your position. The quote you posted says that "the letter and spirit of BASA has not been respec
185 ebbuk : If only it was that simple. If only my Greek friend.
186 Post contains images YVRLTN : All I can say is wow... Its pretty simple. Arik cant afford to pay for LHR slots and they clearly dont have enough customers - if they did why fly a 7
187 ebbuk : Et toi aussi. I think they say in French. I do love when people use all sorts of analogies to prove a point, a point that is not the issue. The issue
188 Post contains images YVRLTN : Youre up early OK, so its about Nigeria or Africa. What right do they have to get preferential treatment at LHR? And at the expense of BA (and not VS
189 B747-4U3 : I am amazed that you have had the audacity to be as condescending to suggest that I "don't get the kernel of the issue" and then provide a link for m
190 Post contains images ebbuk : Hustling for the pay-check means early starts in London town Nothing makes the British government sit up and listen than a threat to curtail BA. If t
191 tonystan : So is the Nigerian just proving once again that its full of "fat" air or are the flights going to be curtailed?
192 Post contains links B747-4U3 : Yet again you have skirted the issue and have directed me to an article which does not discuss the issues - it talks about fairness and reciprocity b
193 Post contains links ebbuk : Woolly or whatever no case to answer? It would appear not. Nigeria have scored a major win against the Brits http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/...k
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