Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
DL SEA-CDG, Beginning 3/2012  
User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7405 posts, RR: 50
Posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 18979 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

According to the Network and Planning Board, Air France will turn over Seattle-Paris effective March 24, 2012. It will operate as DL 636 on the east-bound leg departing at 1305, arriving at 0655 +1.

[Edited 2011-11-04 14:09:17]


Made from jets!
144 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2991 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 18890 times:

Well many on A.net have made this prediction. I have mixed feelings. I flew the AF flight a few years ago and it was some of the best Coach service I've ever seen. On the other hand, for most of us AS mileage members in Seattle this will be a huge improvement in that aspect. The AF partnership in AS's mileage plan is very restrictive. You get NO miles and no elite qualifying points for most coach fares, except the higher unrestricted fares. But it's not clear when booking on AF's web site. You don't just have the opportunity to pick which class of coach fare, except for the high unrestricted one.

So welcome DL to the route. Hopefully it will be a good product and us AS mileage members can earn our full miles and EQP even when booking a lower coach fare.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2991 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 18835 times:

Question: 763 or A332 on the route?

I would assume not a 777. DL would be better off putting a 77L on the SLC-CDG route for SLC takeoff performance reasons.


User currently offlinecgnnrw From Germany, joined May 2005, 1143 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 18770 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1):
I flew the AF flight a few years ago and it was some of the best Coach service I've ever seen.

My reason for always flying with AF when I go to the USA.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1):
Hopefully it will be a good product

Don't count on it especially if its on one of DL 767s that still haven't been upfitted with new interiors. PAX will most likely get seats withou adjustable headrests, old TV monitors hanging from the ceiling, no menues or amenity kits and mediocre inflight service at best.

AF dropped PHL last year, now SEA I wonder which city is next on the AF list to give to DL.



A330 man.
User currently offlinenutsaboutplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 496 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 18671 times:

This is great news and the big winner here is AS and her Mileage Plan members. The Port of Seattle will be BUTT HURT over this as they seem to thrive on the prestige of maintaining a bouquet of international tails but they will get over it.

AS has an excellent relationship with DL in SEA on the station level and certainly from a corporate standpoint. This move will certainly solidify the relationship and bring excellent benefits for AS mileage plan members who are looking to travel to Paris and beyond.

I am happy to see what DL has done with SEA and I think that there are other big moves ahead. SEA certainly benefited from the DL/NW merger and hopefully we will see another Asia announcement or two in the next year,



American Airlines, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Northwest Airlines, America West Airlines, USAFR
User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 18599 times:

Quoting cgnnrw (Reply 3):
AF dropped PHL last year, now SEA I wonder which city is next on the AF list to give to DL.

The same goes for ORD, switched to DL's metal this winter.


User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3500 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 17854 times:

Lame. As someone who's flown both carriers over the pond (though neither from SEA), I probably have to say that I'd much prefer AF to DL. As a local spotter, I have to say...well, whoopee...another DL Airbus.   
Not surprising, just too bad.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7830 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 17770 times:

My fear is that it will go from AF to DL to nobody. Maybe it's apples and oranges, but whatever happened to PHL/PIT-CDG? AF gave it to DL and I guess it was so bad DL dropped it too. Let's hope SEA/ORD-CDG last.

Another question, I know DL/AF have a joint venture, but what is the point of DL taking these routes? I can see SEA since it's kind of a hub, but why don't we see AF flying ATL-LAX or something?



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 17709 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
Another question, I know DL/AF have a joint venture, but what is the point of DL taking these routes? I can see SEA since it's kind of a hub, but why don't we see AF flying ATL-LAX or something?

beacuse AF cannot fly domestic routes. AF did fly LAX-LHR for a while as a part of its JV with DL.


User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3500 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 17701 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
Let's hope SEA/ORD-CDG last.

I'm sure ORD will probably be fine. SEA probably only stands to perform better with DL on the route, though AF seems to have held their own for the last several years...I doubt this switch is being made for any reason other than the current trends with the AF/KL-DL joint venture and the slow long-haul build-up DL has going at SEA.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
Another question, I know DL/AF have a joint venture, but what is the point of DL taking these routes? I can see SEA since it's kind of a hub, but why don't we see AF flying ATL-LAX or something?

I've wondered about this myself. Is AF letting DL take over a chunk of their U.S. routes to add frequency elsewhere? I haven't noticed them adding a great deal of new long-haul service elsewhere...



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16820 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 17666 times:

Quoting cgnnrw (Reply 3):
AF dropped PHL last year, now SEA I wonder which city is next on the AF list to give to DL.

Apparently EWR.

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 5):
The same goes for ORD, switched to DL's metal this winter.
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
My fear is that it will go from AF to DL to nobody.
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
whatever happened to PHL/PIT-CDG? AF gave it to DL and I guess it was so bad DL dropped it too.

That's the problem, first it's a huge step back service wise between Air France and a DL 763. Second the record is not good as pointed out, the service downgrade does not help generate excitement over the changes. The benefit is DL's costs are cheaper, the downside is DL's product is cheaper.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1175 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 17575 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):

That's the problem, first it's a huge step back service wise between Air France and a DL 763. Second the record is not good as pointed out, the service downgrade does not help generate excitement over the changes. The benefit is DL's costs are cheaper, the downside is DL's product is cheaper.

Obviously you haven't flown on the referb 767's

Does anyone know if EWR-CDG will be flown by Delta?


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16820 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 17511 times:

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 11):
Obviously you haven't flown on the referb 767's

Are you implying that the service on DL's refurbished 767s are superior to Air France's service on their Airbuses? They refurbishes the interior, great, but how is the service better than Air France?



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3500 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 17463 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
That's the problem, first it's a huge step back service wise between Air France and a DL 763. Second the record is not good as pointed out, the service downgrade does not help generate excitement over the changes. The benefit is DL's costs are cheaper, the downside is DL's product is cheaper.

Is the 763 confirmed for SEA-CDG? I realize they already have quite a few going through SEA (KIX, PEK, ATL, MSP and the second AMS frequency in the summer last I checked), but seeing as SEA is also an A330 base I wouldn't be surprised to see them find a way to get one on this route, particularly since it retains the AF's capacity and (last I checked) offers a better product than the 767. I would think the whole point of this switch is to bolster SkyTeam's position in the SEA-Europe market and downgrading the product doesn't help accomplish that.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1175 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 17427 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
Are you implying that the service on DL's refurbished 767s are superior to Air France's service on their Airbuses? They refurbishes the interior, great, but how is the service better than Air France?

Evidtently you haven't been on one of my flights either,  


User currently offlinenutsaboutplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 496 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 17336 times:

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 14):
Evidtently you haven't been on one of my flights either,

No need to defend.......I have enjoyed my recent DL flights very much including a customer service team in JAX that went above and beyond to help me out in getting back to SEA during a WX issue in ATL.

I also flew PHX-ATL a few weeks ago and was thrilled to see a 763 at the gate in place of the 752.....it had the refurbished cabin and was an excellent experience....I would be fine with taking the "new" DL 763 over the pond in place of the 332.

If DL keeps doing what they are doing, there are many bright years ahead.



American Airlines, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Northwest Airlines, America West Airlines, USAFR
User currently offlineb727fa From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 751 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 17299 times:

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 14):

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
Are you implying that the service on DL's refurbished 767s are superior to Air France's service on their Airbuses? They refurbishes the interior, great, but how is the service better than Air France?

Evidtently you haven't been on one of my flights either,  

Atta Girl.



My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1175 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 17302 times:

Remember, I never said that the service was "superior", your words, I just stated that you haven't flown on the new
referb 767. I find it funny that you say the Delta service is ""cheaper", again your words, and you haven't even flown
the product.


User currently offlineblrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1415 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 17278 times:

AF allows checking in of 2 bags free to India from US. That was one of the reasons for me to choose either BA or AF for flights to India. Now, I am left with just BA   I guess with EK starting service to SEA from march, I can look at it too. But I wonder how easy it would be to travel non-stop for 15 hours with a toddler, compared to 10 hrs on BA/AF

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16820 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 17205 times:

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 17):
Remember, I never said that the service was "superior", your words, I just stated that you haven't flown on the new
referb 767. I find it funny that you say the Delta service is ""cheaper", again your words, and you haven't even flown
the product.
Quoting cokepopper (Reply 14):

Evidtently you haven't been on one of my flights either,

Such personal efforts by employees such as yourself are a nice touch, but they do not over come the difference in service. There might be some fantastic, service oriented persons at the Wafflehouse off I-95 in Brunswick Georgia. But they can't can't improve the fact that it's Wafflehouse food your eating.

Losing Air France is a loss, it's a loss for SEA, ORD, EWR etc.. Even if DL takes over it's still a step backwards, just not as much of a step backwards as losing the route all together.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9503 posts, RR: 52
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 17024 times:

It makes a lot of sense since DL has a international mini-hub in SEA. This will be their 5th international departure from SEA. SEA is also an important maintenance base as it can bridge the A330 and 767 fleets between Asia and Europe.

Many prefer the AF service and it will be unfortunate to see an international tail dissappear from SEA, but of all the routes from the US to Paris, SEA makes sense to be served by DL. People have already shown that they will fly the DL 767s long haul out of SEA. SEA-PEK is blocked over 12 hours and one of the longest 767 routes and DL is going up against Hainan's brand new A330s yet is still flying the route.

[Edited 2011-11-04 17:54:56]


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinejetjack74 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 7405 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 16954 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 14):
Evidtently you haven't been on one of my flights either,  

I like your style.

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 13):
Is the 763 confirmed for SEA-CDG? I realize they already have quite a few going through SEA (KIX, PEK, ATL, MSP and the second AMS frequency in the summer last I checked), but seeing as SEA is also an A330 base I wouldn't be surprised to see them find a way to get one on this route, particularly since it retains the AF's capacity and (last I checked) offers a better product than the 767. I would think the whole point of this switch is to bolster SkyTeam's position in the SEA-Europe market and downgrading the product doesn't help accomplish that.

Well, it'll be confirmed, but it'll be operated with a 76U, but that's always subject to change. By that time, or by the time the summer, there'll probably more reconfiged 76T's in the system, so they're bound to see an upgrade in the level of service.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
That's the problem, first it's a huge step back service wise between Air France and a DL 763. Second the record is not good as pointed out, the service downgrade does not help generate excitement over the changes. The benefit is DL's costs are cheaper, the downside is DL's product is cheaper.

Probably the biggest difference they'll see, is age demographic of the cabin crew. Quite honestly, I don't think they'll really care as most people just want to get to where they're going. I've heard many of our FF customers who tell us horror stories about AF from time to time, so you're not always going to be guaranteed a better flight experience just because it's a foreign carrier. Give us a chance. So you have to pay to check your bags, well it's the same thing on AA, UA, US

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 17):
I find it funny that you say the Delta service is ""cheaper", again your words, and you haven't even flown the product.

Typical knee-jerk reaction from the "foreign is better cus they have cool accents" crowd.



Made from jets!
User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 767 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks ago) and read 16765 times:

I think DL has potential to do better. DL has been doing very well on intl flights out of SEA as well as PDX. I say it's here to stay.
And in reference to AF service being better than DL..that's debatable. I find DL to have some of the better crews. AF is robotic. And they never smile.


User currently offlineHVNandrew From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks ago) and read 16588 times:

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 21):
Probably the biggest difference they'll see, is age demographic of the cabin crew. Quite honestly, I don't think they'll really care as most people just want to get to where they're going. I've heard many of our FF customers who tell us horror stories about AF from time to time, so you're not always going to be guaranteed a better flight experience just because it's a foreign carrier. Give us a chance.

Very true. I flew AZ over to Rome for the first time in the spring, and I was worried because I had heard some pretty negative things about the AZ experience. It was one of the best flights of my life from a service standpoint. Fairly light load, so I asked one of the FAs if I could move toward the back to have my own row. He not only obliged but even moved my bags for me. I was clearly flying alone and young-ish (21 at the time, but sadly I look no older than 18), and the FA did everything to make me comfortable - including sneaking me a plentiful amount of wine as we were awaiting takeoff! Great surprise and a great flight. Just goes to show you can't believe everything you read online.


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22726 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks ago) and read 16358 times:

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 21):
I've heard many of our FF customers who tell us horror stories about AF from time to time, so you're not always going to be guaranteed a better flight experience just because it's a foreign carrier.

  

I'm really mystified by this "AF is better than DL" sentiment that seems pervasive on here. I think AF's catering is slightly better, and their hard product blows the old 763 product out of the water. But in terms of the people, I've had good and bad experiences on both, and I might even say that DL has a slight edge. Most of my really bad longhaul experiences on DL have been to South America, not Europe. And DL's ground staff at pretty much any hub is far better than AF's at CDG, which is horrendously bad. I rarely transit CDG without seeing AF staff shouting at passengers.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 airtechy : I totally avoid CDG because of a very bad experience with an AF staff member who insisted that I try speaking French at the check in counter....busine
26 klkla : I think it depends on whether you're flying in the front or back of the plane. I much prefer DL's service in Biz over AF. AF has no pre-departure ser
27 Blueman87 : I would prefer delta anyday than AF there is more room on DL AF I am packed in like sardines
28 AeroWesty : Let's not jump the gun. The trade-off is that until DL can guarantee the route will be flown by a plane with a true lie-flat Business Class that beat
29 usdcaguy : Can someone with the appropriate knowledge comment on this? I find it to be a very confounding issue. If the 767s are supposed to be so cost effectiv
30 alitalia744 : Odd, on my CDG to LAX the FAs came around every 30 mins or so in Affaires to check on passengers and refill empty wine glasses. Plus they set up the
31 laca773 : It is true, DL has made large cutbacks in the past when they went through bankruptcy. HOWEVER, they are trying really hard to put their customers fir
32 wedgetail737 : Don't forget that LH flies daily to FRA. I'd imagine Hainan obtains the majority of its business from Asian travel agencies and those seasoned travel
33 mayor : Is the 767 line shut down? I thought they deferred the 787 orders until 2020?? Isn't that within the next 10-12 years? I'm sure if DL needs them earl
34 vincewy : What other routes could be switched to DL in the future? DTW? I'll be bummed out if this happens. Many in DTW miss the old days with KL metals, but ob
35 panamair : PV is also an entirely separate fare class that can cost hundreds of dollars more than a seat in EC. EC is basically FREE to high-level elite flyers
36 panamair : It's not just the aircraft choice; overall, DL has lower costs than AF, including labor, aircraft ownership/leasing costs, etc. AF is not doing well
37 Post contains images fxramper : Delta Dartboard, yes. This route wont last a year unless they enjoy sitting on massive losses to keep a peg on the map.
38 mayor : Might do better than you thought, considering what was mentioned before about AS having better reciprocal FF rules with DL than they do with AF.
39 Post contains images fxramper : FF mile agreements account for less than 8% of total revenues on all US flagged carriers.
40 DeltaMD90 : Glad to see a PMNW station get a CDG flight. Why (for the most part) do PMDL stations usually get a CDG flight and PMNW stations usually get an AMS fl
41 Gunsontheroof : Probably something to do with the staffing situations at different stations. The PMNW staff are accustomed to working with KL (AMS) and the PMDL stat
42 Post contains images dolphinflyer : Would be nice if AF shifted the SEA aircraft over to start flying CDG-YVR! Better yet, start flying CDG-YVR-PPT, v.v.
43 RWA380 : Since DL & AS are tied in, there would be no reason for DL to operate a PDX-SEA-PDX flight again? I'd love to have a jet option once again on the
44 AeroWesty : PV is a better product than EC, there's no denying that. Better things in life do cost money! If you simply want extra legroom in Economy, AF has exi
45 wedgetail737 : No...the 767 line still moving right along...producing mainly 767-300F's and soon KC-46A's.
46 jfk777 : SEA to CDG would probably be a 767. SLC to CDG is a 767, DL doesn't have lots of 777( 18) lying around to fly such secondary routes as Salt Lake to C
47 cgnnrw : That's one of my biggest complaints with DL. You simply do not know what to expect as far as inflight service. On AF I knew it would be either an A33
48 sxf24 : This isn't a new route for Delta. As part of the TATL JV, Delta has effectively been flying this route for some time - with an AF aircraft. This is n
49 mayor : Apparently you missed the memo. You know, the one where DL is spending large amounts of money to refurbish the fleet and update the interiors. Now, y
50 cgnnrw : It will take to 2013 to include menus and amenity kits to their fleet? I know I may come across as DL bashing but the message "DL is upgrading their
51 Post contains images mattteo : You haven't been on one of my flight
52 Post contains images mayor : Well, considering that they just recently started on the upgrades, if it's done by 2013, I don't think it's too bad. That statement may be getting ol
53 SESGDL : This throws a bit of inaccuracy into what you're saying, as FRA-ATL has been either a 777 or 764 for years. If that's not updated or "premium" enough
54 sxf24 : Amenity kits are included already... Upgrading the fleet is not just expensive, but extremely complex. Engineering and certifying new interiors takes
55 Post contains images peanuts : Most relevant line in this thread. Anything else I read on here is just "noise". "new route", "dartboard"? Clueless banter. Many routes on a JV will
56 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Yep. Shut 'er down after this comment. A.net is one of the last places to get the news that people don't pay a premium for menus, amenity kits, even
57 TomFoolery : In the past few years, AZ has really turned around, and is slowly starting to shed its poor reputation. I am curious if the momentum will continue. A
58 BCBHokie : This is a huge loss for Delta frequent fliers. Delta's systemwide upgrade certificates are practically useless on Delta's own metal, but can be used e
59 DTWLAX : Not in economy... On what routes did you get amenity kits? AF hands out kits in Y
60 BoeingGuy : From what I understand, this route does really well. Why would DL kill it? What makes you think they will be sitting on massive losses?
61 BoeingGuy : Not true. KLM has never served SEA on their own metal (or is composites?). The SEA-AMS flights are on NW and now DL airplanes.
62 laca773 : The amenity kits is a pair of socks and eyes shades. You're not going to get a deluxe amenity kit (though that would be nice. I collect them.). And t
63 YULWinterSkies : Isn't ORD supposed to be handed back to AF (A340) for the summer? That applies to the 777 mostly. Otherwise, they are quite similar in legroom and se
64 klkla : Huh? As a DL DM I find that pretty funny. Over the last year I have only been able to upgrade on AF once using DL systemwides. I have never NOT been
65 TomFoolery : I stand corrected. It was Vancouver that I was thinking of with KLM. Once the 763s are converted, they will be a great product however. I agree that
66 dolphinflyer : Vancouver needs a nonstop flight to Paris. We'd gladly welcome that AF plane @ YVR.
67 mah4546 : A local market the small size of YVRPAR doesn't need any non-stop service.
68 wedgetail737 : The only other airline that flew SEA-AMS was Martinair before they were associated with KLM.
69 Post contains images toobz : [quote Quoting toobz (Reply 22): You haven't been on one of my flight [/quote] Ha I've had good flights on AF too I'm just sayin....
70 mplsjefe : Agreed! We flew from CDG to YUL and thank the heavens that we were automatically upgraded to Y+. the 3-4-3 layout of their 773s is like cattle car. W
71 cgnnrw : June 2010 CDG-PHL-CDG B757. I know its a totally different aircraft form the 767s that are being refitted but the inflight service was not on par wit
72 AirNovaBAe146 : Out of curiosity, any thoughts on perhaps DL/AF downsizing this route because of Emirates' entry on SEA DXB. How many SEA CDG AF pax (soon to be DL)
73 delta2ual : I think DL/AF will be ok with an A330. The interiors are nice and they are essentially flying hub-to-hub (when you add in AS feed in SEA). Many peopl
74 Viscount724 : AF has started service to LIM, CUN and MCO in the past few months, and started CPT this weekend.
75 TOMMY767 : Good for DL for stepping up to SEA-CDG. It should do. Hopefully next will be EWR-CDG.
76 DeltaMD90 : Anyone see PDX-CDG happening? Not sure DL is big enough in PDX for another flight to Europe or if there would be enough demand from PDX. Speaking of w
77 ASFlyer : I thought I read that PDX was barely hanging on to the one flight to Europe they do have. Didn't DL cut down the frequency? I may be wrong but I swea
78 toobz : DL PDX-AMS does very well load factor wise
79 ASFlyer : Then maybe the yields aren't that hot because it's less then daily and on a 767.
80 TeamInTheSky : I am completely biased being a tried and true Skyteam fan, but I like both AF and DL. If the route is operated by a refurbed 767, I would actually pr
81 RWA380 : Since PDX & SEA are fairly close, it would be nice to see DL run a short tag to Portland for this CDG flight, but also rotation of aircraft and c
82 rwsea : Based on my observations, the yields probably aren't stellar on this route. I've flown the route 3 times in the last year, and got an op-up twice fro
83 jetjack74 : Well, our 763's are 2-3-2
84 sxf24 : Why operate a tag when AS has frequent shuttle service between PDX and SEA? It's not like there's demand for large air cargo shipments between SEA an
85 TeamInTheSky : Amateur of me, of course they are! And all the better!
86 BoeingGuy : DL's A330s are 2-4-2 AFAIK, so you weren't too amateur. Maybe that's what you were thinking of.
87 MasseyBrown : Where is Worldtraveler when you need him? There has to be a way to portray this substitution as another example of blinding genius.
88 SATexan : LH does not alllow two checked bags True.. but there is still no denying that AF is on a slippery slope in USA. PHL and SEA gone, EWR and ORD seasona
89 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : DL has lower costs........... Edit: not to mention it ties in better with AS which has a large operation in SEA. Hardly "Dartboard-ish" [Edited 2011-1
90 BoeingGuy : Anyone seen an official announcement yet, or is this all still a rumor?
91 jetjack74 : It'll be loaded officially on Nov 12. Whether there will be fanfare over the turn-over, I doubt it. It'll most likely just be a quiet transfer to DL.
92 cokepopper : Jetjack, have you heard if EWR will be part of this transfer?
93 cslusarc : If DL has lower costs, then why doesn't DL operate all Transatlantic Skyteam flying instead of sharing that flying with its alliance partners?
94 jetjack74 : I have not. We'd been hearing rumors for a long time that AF was abandoning the Seattle market for awhile, so we've been keeping our ears open for ne
95 PSU.DTW.SCE : Thank you both. Many people on here simply do not seem to understand the DL/AF/KLM joint venture. The airlines operate "as one" across the Atlantic.
96 jetjack74 : Because it's a partnership, a joint venture with the contribution of all involved. The cost issue comes into play when the loads and prices aren't in
97 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Well, with PIT, PHL, SEA, ORD, and EWR going to DL metal, it seems it is heading that way for many routes. As others have put, they need to pick the
98 XFSUgimpLB41X : Remember- as AF adds larger A380's to the mix, due to the JV agreement with the pilots which is based on equivalent air seat kilometers (EASK).. AF w
99 DeltaMD90 : Interesting. Has any flying from DL been ceded to AF? I believe at one point DL didn't serve JFK-CDG which is a big hole in the network (JV aside), a
100 XFSUgimpLB41X : As you pointed out, most of JFK has gone to AF. Partly as a result of AZ being added, the heavier metal that AF is adding, and DL's "capacity restrai
101 DeltaMD90 : Oh, so AZ counts as AF's side? Kind of weird. So DL's ASK = AF/KL + AZ's ASK ?
102 Post contains images XFSUgimpLB41X : Kind of. It's several pages long in the contract... there are various "bundles" of flying types and such. It's quite complicated.
103 rwsea : They may operate as "one" across the Atlantic from a marketing standpoint, but that's as far as it goes. It's hard to argue that a newer AF A332 with
104 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Hardly ratty looking to me... I do assume you are talking about DL's old interiors, at least I hope. I think the passengers will survive What's the d
105 rwsea : Yes of course, the current 767-300 which runs the majority of DL's transatlantic flights. The ones with low seatbacks, no headreads, no PTVs, slipper
106 bobnwa : Possibly because the pilot agreement, with either carrier does not allow it.
107 Post contains images MSYtristar : So I'm guessing some people would rather connect in JFK or ATL or DTW rather than taking the nonstop just because it's going to a DL 763? Granted the
108 Cubsrule : But how is that relevant? It's going away. If we are going to compare apples to apples, we can discuss some of AF's older 343s, which are themselves
109 STT757 : BA and LH would be the big beneficiaries of premium traffic lost due to the downgrade of SEA-CDG, I would be interested in knowing how much of the SE
110 MSYtristar : Question is, will there really be a big decline in premium traffic based on the aircraft change? Is there a lot of premium traffic in that market to
111 STT757 : If there were no premium market I don't the route would exist in the first place. There's no VFR traffic on the route, and how many French tourists v
112 Post contains images mayor : I KNOW that you've heard that the fleet is getting an upgrade. With that in mind, why do you keep bringing up the old 763 interiors when you KNOW tha
113 rwsea : Yes, we've all heard that ... and we know it won't be done until the end of 2013. Until then, there's no question that DL's 763s are one of the worst
114 toobz : If its so bad, why are you flying DL...lol
115 panamair : Slightly OT, but I noticed that SEA-AMS has been loaded as 2x daily next summer (1 A333; 1 767); IIRC the 767 flight was only 3-4x weekly this past su
116 rwsea : It was 2x daily this past summer, but down to 1x for the winter. The previous summer I believe it was 11x weekly. Glad to see that the route continue
117 mayor : I'm sure you'll find a reason. Well, no, it doesn't, and that's too bad. However, like I said before.....have a little patience. DL's not doing these
118 PSU.DTW.SCE : How do you know that premium traffic is going to book away because it is Delta?
119 jetjack74 : And probably by then, there will be a significant number of reconfigured 76Ts in the system. In our bid packets, we're seeing a number of 76T aircraf
120 panamair : Indeed....as an example, today (Nov 8), both KIX-SEA and PEK-SEA are 76Ts...KIX-SEA is the non-reconfigured 76T (but with nose-to-tail AVOD PTVs) whi
121 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : I don't see all the complaining about even the old DL 767s. It's not like they're ripping your teeth out every time you fly them. You are starting on
122 Gunsontheroof : So I guess what I'm interested in at this point is whether this move is simply part of the broader trend in which DL is taking over AF's U.S.-CDG rout
123 Post contains images nutsaboutplanes : I would love to see DL do Sydney from Seattle.....maybe just 3 times per week on the 77L but I know this is a huge long-shot. I would think that Mosc
124 Post contains images BoeingGuy : Oh my gosh, how horrible that must of been. The people arrived alive? In seriousness, I'm just thankful that SEA is maintaining good SEA-CDG service
125 nutsaboutplanes : And there it is. The feed in SEA is from AS; this simply makes better business sense. DL will do very well on this route, no doubt in my mind.
126 Gunsontheroof : There have been a lot of rumors flying around about V Australia launching SYD-SEA, but I doubt they'll come to fruition. SYD-SEA with a QF 787 4-5x w
127 panamair : To round out the SEA 'portfolio', I think the two 'big' missing pieces are SEA-LHR and SEA-PVG. Yes, yes, I know NW tried SEA-LHR before, but the slo
128 rwsea : I would think that SEA-NGO could be a good performer as well, at least 3-4x weekly to start.
129 bobnwa : Why do you think thatSEA-SYD would be a good market for DL, other than spotting puposes.
130 jetjack74 : I think that as far as Europe goes, LHR wologins the next logical step. The NW venture their was poorly timed, and over-equipped. I think they knew i
131 BoeingGuy : So this will put 763s on the following DL CDG routes: SEA-CDG SLC-CDG MSP-CDG CVG-CDG Did I miss any? For AMS, it gets the DL 763 on: MEM-AMS PDX-AMS
132 panamair : JFK-CDG also Also: JFK-AMS EWR-AMS BOS-AMS (2nd flight - summer) AMS-BOM (summer) MSP-AMS (one flight) DTW-AMS (one flight) PDX-AMS gets the A332 dur
133 Post contains images nutsaboutplanes : AS funnels a sizable number of passengers to LAX for the QF code-share and most of them are not SEA originators. They use SEA as a first CONX point..
134 baw716 : Like others on this forum, while I'm not surprised, I'm disappointed. Mind you, I LIKE Delta. I work for a Delta Connection carrier, so I tend to have
135 SuperDash : I agree with the assessment. Europe, non summer, may have a smidge too much capacity. But it's possible it fills with other traffic that won't be div
136 Post contains images blrsea : I recently flew BA to India, and the SEA-LHR-SEA flights were full in both directions, and this was for thursday travel. BA currently has just one 744
137 jetjack74 : They're horrible there. But flying into the UK is a nightmare for all(or so it seems). The rules are vastly more strict there for everyone, including
138 BoeingGuy : It's official now. The Delta SEA-CDG flights are loaded in Delta.com as DL 614/615 (not 636 as the OP stated). It looked to about the same schedule as
139 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Because DL completely sucks and has terrible 767s no one is gonna fly
140 jetjack74 : We charge for liquor, beer and wine is complimentary. Liquor is free in Economy Comfort however. We(NW) didn't charge for liquor on TATL because AF a
141 BoeingGuy : Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me. I'll have to choose a different way to get to CDG now that those Gosh-Awful tortureous 767s are going to be on the
142 jetjack74 : By EC, I mean Economy Comfort, our premium economy seating
143 Post contains images BoeingGuy : Oh, but still free beer and wine in regular coach to Europe, correct? Gotto make those nastly DL 767s more tolerable, right? Anything would be better
144 panamair : Yes, beer and wine are complimentary throughout the flight in regular coach to Europe. Originally, Delta only offered free wine/beer with the main me
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
DL PHL-CDG Loads/Upgrades? posted Thu Jun 3 2010 14:56:52 by will777
DL's PIT-CDG Service Not Meeting Goals posted Sat Mar 13 2010 19:50:00 by TOLtommy
DL SEA-Hawaii posted Sat Feb 6 2010 12:10:10 by AlexInWa
BDL Officials Turned Down DL To CDG On Subsidies posted Tue Dec 8 2009 07:52:06 by Sectflyer
DL JFK CDG? posted Tue Nov 4 2008 04:02:55 by Delta763
Looks Like AA Is Going 777 JFK-CDG Beginning 09/08 posted Sat Feb 16 2008 11:42:39 by UAL747
AF SEA-CDG...Early Load Numbers? posted Tue May 29 2007 17:01:48 by AlexInWa
DL: MAA-CDG On Monday Feb 6th posted Wed Feb 8 2006 20:51:05 by Kkfla737
DL At CDG: Which Hall In Terminal 2? posted Wed Jul 27 2005 08:27:02 by Flashmeister
DL 747 DTW-AMS Summer Schedule 2012? posted Sun Oct 16 2011 08:07:01 by b764