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VS Announces YVR  
User currently offlineYVRSpeedBird From Canada, joined Nov 2011, 81 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14643 times:

http://www.vancouversun.com/business...ancouver+London/5665015/story.html

I know this has been discussed lots in the past, but here it is finally! Long time coming or too little too late?

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24803 posts, RR: 22
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14429 times:

They should have tried YYZ again. YVR is a much lower-yield market with little business traffic in contrast with YYZ. Their previous brief effort at YYZ failed due to bad timing (9/11) but also because it operated to LGW. With service to LHR it would be much more successful.

User currently offlineKLAXAirport From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 14264 times:

Good news for YVR!
How many airlines operate from YVR to LHR? Is this a competitive market VS just entered?

Cheers
KLAXAirport   


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24803 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 14248 times:

Quoting KLAXAirport (Reply 4):
How many airlines operate from YVR to LHR?

AC and BA.


User currently offlinewhiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 774 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 14224 times:
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Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3):
They should have tried YYZ again. YVR is a much lower-yield market with little business traffic in contrast with YYZ. Their previous brief effort at YYZ failed due to bad timing (9/11) but also because it operated to LGW. With service to LHR it would be much more successful.

They may be thinking YVR is underserved compared to YYZ. YYZ has 4 flights a day just with AC and 2 or 3 with BA during the summer. YVR has a single daily 77W with AC and 1 or 2 flights with BA.


User currently offlineconnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13989 times:

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 6):
They may be thinking YVR is underserved compared to YYZ.

yep, the return fare of $1,700 CAD and up between Vancouver and London Heathrow tells the story.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13912 times:

Quoting KLAXAirport (Reply 4):
How many airlines operate from YVR to LHR? Is this a competitive market VS just entered?

Daily AC B77W, and 12 per week on BA B744. Somehow the thought of 4 weekly A340-300s doing anything more than taking the leisure traffic is laughable.
However the market IS price sensitive given the presence of Thomas Cook and Air Transat remember so if they're not going in on price and they're not daily, it's going to be an odd situation. Mind you if they still have eight A330s to add in the next year they're going to have to fly them. IF.


User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 768 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13871 times:

The next question is, does it replace some other route and what about the other 3 days a week?

User currently offlinesevenheavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1155 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 13848 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 9):

The same slot is used for an additional 3x weekly SFO service.

The A343 is coming from a route that will be operated by an A343. Possibly ORD but there is a bit of shuffling still to do.

The A333's are definately all coming. Not all for expansion though.....



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
User currently offlineyvrsr From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13797 times:

Just some context, here is the rough schedule:

In winter:

Air Canada: Daily A330
British Airways: Daily B747
May be a couple of flights a week by Air Transit

In summer

Air Canada: Daily 77W
British Airwasy: Twice Daily B747 (in recent years 2nd flight has operated 5 or 6 times a week only)
Probably 7 - 10 additional flight per week Vancouver - Britain by Air Transat, Thomas Cook, charter carriers

Vancouver is not a major business destination when compared to other cities and there is a huge difference between the winter and summer in number of people going through the airport.

VS plans on 4 flights per week in Summer 2012, which is the Olympics year. It will interesting to see if the flight can be last into the winter and beyond.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3197 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13417 times:

Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 10):
The A343 is coming from a route that will be operated by an A343. Possibly ORD but there is a bit of shuffling still to do.
The A333's are definately all coming. Not all for expansion though.....

If you're taking all eight aircraft then how many A346s / B744s are going? There is no way on Earth that VS need that amount of capacity for next summer. BTW : "The A343 is coming from a route that will be operated by an A343."
Do you mean is going up to an A346?


User currently offlinesevenheavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1155 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 13297 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 12):

Sorry, typo. The current A343 route will be operated by an A333.



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
User currently offlinegilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 3001 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12620 times:

Good news for Vancouver, with Thomas Cook no longer flying the route next summer and only leaving Air Transat flying the route to LGW on charters, they maybe able to get some customers from them...

The comments Tony Gugliotta from YVR airport said in the Vancouver Sun article... “It’s a world-class airline with a tremendous reputation. We feel it will create about 50 jobs a year, about $3 million in wages.” If only he had flown on the A340-300 in recent years and may not have said that!

Those aircraft are so tired and in need of a major overhaul.


User currently offlineYXXMIKE From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12517 times:

Quoting yvrsr (Reply 11):
VS plans on 4 flights per week in Summer 2012, which is the Olympics year. It will interesting to see if the flight can be last into the winter and beyond.

If they can attract tour business going onto the cruise ships then they'll certainly have some good business, but they'll want to do some serious work with tour companies for this to work well. In the winter, they would have to do something similar with the ski resorts and mainly Whistler. If they can achieve a decent margin and high volume then maybe winter could also work. Also depends if the conference market in Vancouver continues to grow as that provides a lot of year round business to the city.

The YVR - LON market has been far more saturated before, remember it wasn't long ago that: BA - AC - ZOOM - Thomas Cook - Air Transat all operated metal between the two cities and in the summer it was twice daily with a 744 for BA. Obviously it was overkill but this could work out if they can come in with the right price, product and achieve partnerships in and around Vancouver.


User currently offlineplanesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 815 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12451 times:

Cruises shouldn't be a problem, VH has a cruise division now which already puts a lot of bums on seats for the Caribbean routes ex LGW.

User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 36
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11925 times:

Quoting connector4you (Reply 7):
yep, the return fare of $1,700 CAD and up between Vancouver and London Heathrow tells the story.

I've never paid a $1700 return fare on either AC or BA for a YVR-LHR ticket ... I've never paid more than $1200.

Good news for YVR for sure, I've been wanting to try VS for many years, just have to see how their onward connections from LHR are.



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlinewhiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 774 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 11004 times:
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Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 17):
Quoting connector4you (Reply 7):
yep, the return fare of $1,700 CAD and up between Vancouver and London Heathrow tells the story.

I've never paid a $1700 return fare on either AC or BA for a YVR-LHR ticket ... I've never paid more than $1200.

Good news for YVR for sure, I've been wanting to try VS for many years, just have to see how their onward connections from LHR are.

If your booking now for July next year, yes you will be paying around $1700 round trip on AC.

If you wait it'll be less, looking towards the end of Nov you can go for $1200.

But really, $1700 hundred isn't that bad for flying 7600 kms in 9 and half hours!


User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 36
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10223 times:

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 18):
If your booking now for July next year, yes you will be paying around $1700 round trip on AC.

If you wait it'll be less, looking towards the end of Nov you can go for $1200.

My bad, I usually book for Spring and Fall, so I guess $1700 for summertime sounds about right.



A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlinecontext From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8034 times:

Finally a member   

I'm actually a little sad for this announcement. SEA is my home airport and I've always hoped VS would visit. I even thought it might happen when VS announced SEA was in consideration upon delivery of their 787s. Insult to injury came with the DL/AF announcement further limiting the variety of tails and ending the last A340 service at SEA (SAS first, then the seasonal AF A343).

Do you think its reasonable to believe that YVR service necessarily excludes service to SEA?

Best wishes to VS at YVR!
(I'm sure your pax will find the arrival procedure MUCH more accommodating than they might have at SEA   )


User currently offlineconnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7521 times:

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 17):
I've never paid a $1700 return fare on either AC or BA for a YVR-LHR ticket ... I've never paid more than $1200

Prediction: by January 2012 when the fare could go as high as CAN 1,900 and above, Air France will jump in and sadly you'll be grounded all year around.

Just kidding   


User currently offlinethreepoint From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 2129 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 7052 times:

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 17):
My bad, I usually book for Spring and Fall, so I guess $1700 for summertime sounds about right.

One can find summertime fares YVR-LHR well under $1700 on AC if you keep an eye on their websaver announcements.



The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
User currently offlineLuftyMatt From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6717 times:

Nice to see VS expanding and adding a Canadian destination   I'm sure the route will do well. Without the intense competition on the YYZ route, there is more chance it will succeed.


chase the sun
User currently offlineACT7 From Canada, joined Nov 2011, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4444 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 1):
They should have tried YYZ again. YVR is a much lower-yield market with little business traffic in contrast with YYZ. Their previous brief effort at YYZ failed due to bad timing (9/11) but also because it operated to LGW. With service to LHR it would be much more successful.

I agree. The fact that AC has never attempted to increase capacity on the YVR-LHR route and the fact that BA will still capture more of the higher yield business market, makes me wonder what the logic behind VS's


User currently offlinewhiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 774 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4343 times:
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Quoting ACT7 (Reply 22):
I agree. The fact that AC has never attempted to increase capacity on the YVR-LHR route and the fact that BA will still capture more of the higher yield business market, makes me wonder what the logic behind VS's

AC increases capacity every summer, a B77W is added now every summer compared to an A333 in the winter. A couple of summers ago a second flight was added running 4 or 5 days a week until enough B77Ws were in the fleet.


User currently offlineconnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4253 times:

Quoting threepoint (Reply 20):
One can find summertime fares YVR-LHR well under $1700 on AC if you keep an eye on their websaver announcements.

So last minute web-fare with Air Canada could actually be cheaper than a six month advanced booking? Why would that be?

I thought that's something peculiar to regular charters like Airtransat, Thomas Cook, MyTravel, etc


25 ACT7 : Increasing capacity by 80 seats is very different than adding a 4 times weekly rotation with a 343. The tourist market is very low yield and YVR does
26 fly2yyz : Lets see how this affects charters like TS who are flying the route 5x per week using 332s
27 something : VS is still mostly a holiday airline. YYZ seems overserved as it is, plus we don't know if they could get the slots they'd need there. B.C. enjoys a f
28 threepoint : I'd hesitate to try to pretend that I have the faintest inkling on how fare pricing works. I honestly have no clue, nor have I figured out the rhyme
29 ACT7 : I would argue that YYZ is not overserved, but certainly well served. VS may have a harder time capturing the higher yielding business traffic at YYZ
30 Post contains images YVRLTN : Wow, whats with these long standing rumors coming about. First CZ, now VS - what next, IT??!! Personally, Im stoked. I havent found these in 2-3 years
31 thenoflyzone : It wont. Its a seasonal flight. May24th to Oct 25th. Prediction. The flight will return for 2013, but will be axed for 2014. nothing like going again
32 ACT7 : I second that...
33 Post contains images ACDC8 : What are VSs onward connections like? I couldn't find any codeshare partners for intra-Europe but what about connecting VS flights to India? Thats the
34 YXXMIKE : What's that famous English song "always look on the bright side of life...." Anyway, I think that could be true but if they do have strong business c
35 connector4you : Wow, your prediction sounds like a war price it's imminent now.
36 thenoflyzone : Wasn't it called "always look at the dark side of life" ? Be it as it may, i think YVR to LON is well served, especially during the summer. My opinio
37 Post contains links ACDC8 : Found the schedule posted ... http://airlineroute.net/2011/11/08/vs-sfoyvr-s12/ London Heathrow – Vancouver VS095 LHR1300 – 1510YVR 343 x135 VS096
38 connector4you : And another observation note to the above schedule, both VS flights to SFO and YVR are leaving and arriving back to LHR at the same time on the same d
39 skipness1E : No they have to arrive at the same time, they used 7 slot pairs and didn't introduce a daily service. Remember 8 A333s spare for next summer......
40 skipness1E : Worryingly, the new VS service to Vancouver is not actually an option on the website here in the UK and the second SFO has not been loaded!
41 sevenheavy : It will be. It was only announced to the public 4 days ago!. Hardly unusual.
42 skipness1E : That's my point. New service, lots of publicity, people investigate booking, not available..... It's marketing strategy 1-01, only market what is ava
43 sevenheavy : At the risk of getting drawn in to micro analysing something of a non event, this is nonetheless nothing unusual. I (perhaps mistakenly, but justifiab
44 1stfl94 : Interesting that when VS ordered the A330s they were talking of adding Cancun, Vancouver and Beijing. With two out of those three now on the way, migh
45 slinky09 : Except for the fact that VS announced this on their Facebook page ...
46 skipness1E : So are some of the A340s going back next Spring? Surely someone must know...
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