Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21481 posts, RR: 24 Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13932 times:
They should have tried YYZ again. YVR is a much lower-yield market with little business traffic in contrast with YYZ. Their previous brief effort at YYZ failed due to bad timing (9/11) but also because it operated to LGW. With service to LHR it would be much more successful.
KLAXAirport From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 118 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13768 times:
Good news for YVR!
How many airlines operate from YVR to LHR? Is this a competitive market VS just entered?
Cheers
KLAXAirport
Last Flights: LAX-YYZ-LAX (AC) Next Flights LAX-IAD-LAX (UA)
whiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 681 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13728 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 3): They should have tried YYZ again. YVR is a much lower-yield market with little business traffic in contrast with YYZ. Their previous brief effort at YYZ failed due to bad timing (9/11) but also because it operated to LGW. With service to LHR it would be much more successful.
They may be thinking YVR is underserved compared to YYZ. YYZ has 4 flights a day just with AC and 2 or 3 with BA during the summer. YVR has a single daily 77W with AC and 1 or 2 flights with BA.
skipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 2375 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 13416 times:
Quoting KLAXAirport (Reply 4): How many airlines operate from YVR to LHR? Is this a competitive market VS just entered?
Daily AC B77W, and 12 per week on BA B744. Somehow the thought of 4 weekly A340-300s doing anything more than taking the leisure traffic is laughable.
However the market IS price sensitive given the presence of Thomas Cook and Air Transat remember so if they're not going in on price and they're not daily, it's going to be an odd situation. Mind you if they still have eight A330s to add in the next year they're going to have to fly them. IF.
sevenheavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1126 posts, RR: 10 Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 13352 times:
yvrsr From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 96 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 13301 times:
Just some context, here is the rough schedule:
In winter:
Air Canada: Daily A330
British Airways: Daily B747
May be a couple of flights a week by Air Transit
In summer
Air Canada: Daily 77W
British Airwasy: Twice Daily B747 (in recent years 2nd flight has operated 5 or 6 times a week only)
Probably 7 - 10 additional flight per week Vancouver - Britain by Air Transat, Thomas Cook, charter carriers
Vancouver is not a major business destination when compared to other cities and there is a huge difference between the winter and summer in number of people going through the airport.
VS plans on 4 flights per week in Summer 2012, which is the Olympics year. It will interesting to see if the flight can be last into the winter and beyond.
skipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 2375 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12921 times:
Quoting sevenheavy (Reply 10): The A343 is coming from a route that will be operated by an A343. Possibly ORD but there is a bit of shuffling still to do.
The A333's are definately all coming. Not all for expansion though.....
If you're taking all eight aircraft then how many A346s / B744s are going? There is no way on Earth that VS need that amount of capacity for next summer. BTW : "The A343 is coming from a route that will be operated by an A343."
Do you mean is going up to an A346?
sevenheavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1126 posts, RR: 10 Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12801 times:
gilesdavies From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2882 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12124 times:
Good news for Vancouver, with Thomas Cook no longer flying the route next summer and only leaving Air Transat flying the route to LGW on charters, they maybe able to get some customers from them...
The comments Tony Gugliotta from YVR airport said in the Vancouver Sun article... “It’s a world-class airline with a tremendous reputation. We feel it will create about 50 jobs a year, about $3 million in wages.” If only he had flown on the A340-300 in recent years and may not have said that!
Those aircraft are so tired and in need of a major overhaul.
YXXMIKE From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 306 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12021 times:
Quoting yvrsr (Reply 11): VS plans on 4 flights per week in Summer 2012, which is the Olympics year. It will interesting to see if the flight can be last into the winter and beyond.
If they can attract tour business going onto the cruise ships then they'll certainly have some good business, but they'll want to do some serious work with tour companies for this to work well. In the winter, they would have to do something similar with the ski resorts and mainly Whistler. If they can achieve a decent margin and high volume then maybe winter could also work. Also depends if the conference market in Vancouver continues to grow as that provides a lot of year round business to the city.
The YVR - LON market has been far more saturated before, remember it wasn't long ago that: BA - AC - ZOOM - Thomas Cook - Air Transat all operated metal between the two cities and in the summer it was twice daily with a 744 for BA. Obviously it was overkill but this could work out if they can come in with the right price, product and achieve partnerships in and around Vancouver.
planesailing From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 802 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11955 times:
Cruises shouldn't be a problem, VH has a cruise division now which already puts a lot of bums on seats for the Caribbean routes ex LGW.
whiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 681 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10508 times:
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 17): Quoting connector4you (Reply 7):
yep, the return fare of $1,700 CAD and up between Vancouver and London Heathrow tells the story.
I've never paid a $1700 return fare on either AC or BA for a YVR-LHR ticket ... I've never paid more than $1200.
Good news for YVR for sure, I've been wanting to try VS for many years, just have to see how their onward connections from LHR are.
If your booking now for July next year, yes you will be paying around $1700 round trip on AC.
If you wait it'll be less, looking towards the end of Nov you can go for $1200.
But really, $1700 hundred isn't that bad for flying 7600 kms in 9 and half hours!
context From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 34 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7538 times:
Finally a member
I'm actually a little sad for this announcement. SEA is my home airport and I've always hoped VS would visit. I even thought it might happen when VS announced SEA was in consideration upon delivery of their 787s. Insult to injury came with the DL/AF announcement further limiting the variety of tails and ending the last A340 service at SEA (SAS first, then the seasonal AF A343).
Do you think its reasonable to believe that YVR service necessarily excludes service to SEA?
Best wishes to VS at YVR!
(I'm sure your pax will find the arrival procedure MUCH more accommodating than they might have at SEA )
connector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 921 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7025 times:
Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 17): I've never paid a $1700 return fare on either AC or BA for a YVR-LHR ticket ... I've never paid more than $1200
Prediction: by January 2012 when the fare could go as high as CAN 1,900 and above, Air France will jump in and sadly you'll be grounded all year around.
LuftyMatt From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 372 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6221 times:
Nice to see VS expanding and adding a Canadian destination I'm sure the route will do well. Without the intense competition on the YYZ route, there is more chance it will succeed.
ACT7 From Canada, joined Nov 2011, 96 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3948 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 1): They should have tried YYZ again. YVR is a much lower-yield market with little business traffic in contrast with YYZ. Their previous brief effort at YYZ failed due to bad timing (9/11) but also because it operated to LGW. With service to LHR it would be much more successful.
I agree. The fact that AC has never attempted to increase capacity on the YVR-LHR route and the fact that BA will still capture more of the higher yield business market, makes me wonder what the logic behind VS's
whiteguy From Canada, joined Nov 2003, 681 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3847 times:
Quoting ACT7 (Reply 22): I agree. The fact that AC has never attempted to increase capacity on the YVR-LHR route and the fact that BA will still capture more of the higher yield business market, makes me wonder what the logic behind VS's
AC increases capacity every summer, a B77W is added now every summer compared to an A333 in the winter. A couple of summers ago a second flight was added running 4 or 5 days a week until enough B77Ws were in the fleet.
connector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 921 posts, RR: 2 Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3757 times:
Quoting threepoint (Reply 20): One can find summertime fares YVR-LHR well under $1700 on AC if you keep an eye on their websaver announcements.
So last minute web-fare with Air Canada could actually be cheaper than a six month advanced booking? Why would that be?
I thought that's something peculiar to regular charters like Airtransat, Thomas Cook, MyTravel, etc
25 ACT7: Increasing capacity by 80 seats is very different than adding a 4 times weekly rotation with a 343. The tourist market is very low yield and YVR does
26 fly2yyz: Lets see how this affects charters like TS who are flying the route 5x per week using 332s
27 something: VS is still mostly a holiday airline. YYZ seems overserved as it is, plus we don't know if they could get the slots they'd need there. B.C. enjoys a f
28 threepoint: I'd hesitate to try to pretend that I have the faintest inkling on how fare pricing works. I honestly have no clue, nor have I figured out the rhyme
29 ACT7: I would argue that YYZ is not overserved, but certainly well served. VS may have a harder time capturing the higher yielding business traffic at YYZ
30 YVRLTN: Wow, whats with these long standing rumors coming about. First CZ, now VS - what next, IT??!! Personally, Im stoked. I havent found these in 2-3 years
31 thenoflyzone: It wont. Its a seasonal flight. May24th to Oct 25th. Prediction. The flight will return for 2013, but will be axed for 2014. nothing like going again
33 ACDC8: What are VSs onward connections like? I couldn't find any codeshare partners for intra-Europe but what about connecting VS flights to India? Thats the
34 YXXMIKE: What's that famous English song "always look on the bright side of life...." Anyway, I think that could be true but if they do have strong business c
35 connector4you: Wow, your prediction sounds like a war price it's imminent now.
36 thenoflyzone: Wasn't it called "always look at the dark side of life" ? Be it as it may, i think YVR to LON is well served, especially during the summer. My opinio
37 ACDC8: Found the schedule posted ... http://airlineroute.net/2011/11/08/vs-sfoyvr-s12/ London Heathrow – Vancouver VS095 LHR1300 – 1510YVR 343 x135 VS096
38 connector4you: And another observation note to the above schedule, both VS flights to SFO and YVR are leaving and arriving back to LHR at the same time on the same d
39 skipness1E: No they have to arrive at the same time, they used 7 slot pairs and didn't introduce a daily service. Remember 8 A333s spare for next summer......
40 skipness1E: Worryingly, the new VS service to Vancouver is not actually an option on the website here in the UK and the second SFO has not been loaded!
41 sevenheavy: It will be. It was only announced to the public 4 days ago!. Hardly unusual.
42 skipness1E: That's my point. New service, lots of publicity, people investigate booking, not available..... It's marketing strategy 1-01, only market what is ava
43 sevenheavy: At the risk of getting drawn in to micro analysing something of a non event, this is nonetheless nothing unusual. I (perhaps mistakenly, but justifiab
44 1stfl94: Interesting that when VS ordered the A330s they were talking of adding Cancun, Vancouver and Beijing. With two out of those three now on the way, migh
45 slinky09: Except for the fact that VS announced this on their Facebook page ...
46 skipness1E: So are some of the A340s going back next Spring? Surely someone must know...
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I'm sure the route will do well. Without the intense competition on the YYZ route, there is more chance it will succeed.
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