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US Adds Charlotte-Salt Lake City  
User currently onlinewn676 From Djibouti, joined Jun 2005, 1031 posts, RR: 4
Posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12096 times:

Begins March 4th and is currently loaded through next September. Schedule is as follows:

US449 Dep CLT 20:30 Arr SLC 22:45
US448 Dep SLC 23:59 Arr CLT 05:54+1

Equipment is an A320.

[Edited 2011-11-06 14:16:57]


Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
142 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePHLapproach From Philippines, joined Mar 2004, 1240 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12073 times:

Bout time US shows some love to SLC from the East! I could have sworn rather recently someone brought up in a thread why US SLC service was non-exsistant from the east hubs. Although I think PHL brought up before CLT...

User currently offlinejetsetter629 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12046 times:

This fills a void as DL does not currently fly this route. It would be nice to see US add PHL to SLC as well

User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2740 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11939 times:

Quoting jetsetter629 (Reply 2):
It would be nice to see US add PHL to SLC as well

I think that PHL already has DL from SLC, a daily 737, and the T100 (Q310) shows about 360 passengers per day on this route. So maybe a possibility for US here.

On the other hand, SLC-CLT shows about 170 pax per day, and with no competition, this will probably be a good deal. Only question is the redeye timing, but we'll see.

Good for all involved - US, SLC, and CLT.

 

[Edited 2011-11-06 14:37:38]

User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11937 times:

CLT-SLC is an unserved market and it will provide a nice non-stop ski destination from CLT it wont provide a ton of business o&d however. They really should have added this at the beginning of ski season! Too late now to get those bookings as alot of Christmas and presidents week trips are already booked. They will get the pretty busy spring breaks in march and april however. Route should have no problem in the summer or ski season will have to see how the inbetween periods go. CLT offers tons of connection options and will put some new one stop pricing pressure on DL to some southeast destinations.

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22726 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11768 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 3):
Only question is the redeye timing, but we'll see.

I think it's the right timing. Pretty much ideal for most domestic connections and even many Latin America connections and probably the best possible timing for business travel as well - similar to a lot of Delta's single daily long LAX flights, for instance.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3037 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11753 times:

DL previously flew this route with a 738. The route was a victim of the 2008 Financial Crisis. I'm surprised US is using a A320 for the route, I would I have thought they would use a A319. Is the route only seasonal? I find it odd that a flight to a ski destination to operate in Spring/Summer only. They can probably get some business traffic on the route, SLC is after all the industrial banking capital of the US.

I wonder what DL's reaction will be.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineFutureUScapt From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11527 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 3):

I think that PHL already has DL from SLC, a daily 737, and the T100 (Q310) shows about 360 passengers per day on this route. So maybe a possibility for US here.

On the other hand, SLC-CLT shows about 170 pax per day, and with no competition, this will probably be a good deal.

Just to clarify and perhaps avoid later confusion - those numbers are round-trip totals, so the passengers per day each way (PDEW) would be exactly half that. I agree with you that CLT-SLC is a decent-sized local market given that it is unserved and when you combine that when the connection possibilities in CLT, it should do well.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 6):
I find it odd that a flight to a ski destination to operate in Spring/Summer only.

The intent is to operate the flight year-round.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 6):
I wonder what DL's reaction will be.

Although DL has been rather aggressive at responding to infringements on what they feel is their turf, I wouldn't expect to see any reaction here especially given they won't be competing head to head. SLC is simply one of the next logical choices for US from its CLT hub and I think DL will see it as such.


User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1124 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 11486 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 6):
DL previously flew this route with a 738. The route was a victim of the 2008 Financial Crisis

Yes and it was O&D traffic, and seemed to be running near full most of the time as was RDU-SLC. US should have no problem filling the plane with the numerous connex via CLT (other than the lousy flight time from CLT).


User currently offlinebrandonfsu05 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 151 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11301 times:

I wonder what the market is for SLC-Florida, Carribean...

It would seem that the flight has been timed for Carribean and Florida connections...with the route running March-September it seems that's what they're aiming for... Delta has the same thing for Carribean traffic especially...Passengers taking red eyes to Atlanta to catch the morning departures from ATL.

First Florida and Carribean banks depart around 0800 in CLT... meanwhile most of the Carribean flights arrive into Charlotte during 1800-1830 giving time to make the 2030 connection to SLC.

US did a similar thing when they were trying out YUL...it was like an 2000 departure time from CLT...and a Morning flight arriving into CLT to connect to the Carribean banks...


User currently offlineridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1112 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11255 times:

I also see that at SLC US has given up the old HP gate, and moved to the one Continental left about a year ago.

User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2740 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11216 times:

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 7):
I think that PHL already has DL from SLC, a daily 737, and the T100 (Q310) shows about 360 passengers per day on this route. So maybe a possibility for US here.

On the other hand, SLC-CLT shows about 170 pax per day, and with no competition, this will probably be a good deal.

Just to clarify and perhaps avoid later confusion - those numbers are round-trip totals, so the passengers per day each way (PDEW) would be exactly half that. I agree with you that CLT-SLC is a decent-sized local market given that it is unserved and when you combine that when the connection possibilities in CLT, it should do well.

Yes, so the combined daily passenger traffic stated here would be SLC-PHL 180, and PHL-SLC 180, with SLC-CLT at 85, and CLT-SLC 85 (probably give or take a few on any given day)




Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
Quoting point2point (Reply 3):
Only question is the redeye timing, but we'll see.

I think it's the right timing. Pretty much ideal for most domestic connections and even many Latin America connections and probably the best possible timing for business travel as well
Quoting brandonfsu05 (Reply 9):
It would seem that the flight has been timed for Carribean and Florida connections...with the route running March-September it seems that's what they're aiming for...
Quoting brandonfsu05 (Reply 9):
First Florida and Carribean banks depart around 0800 in CLT... meanwhile most of the Carribean flights arrive into Charlotte during 1800-1830 giving time to make the 2030 connection to SLC.

Now that it's put this way, maybe the redeyes won't be half bad. I personally don't mind taking them, I would just tend to wonder about a family traveling with small children. The ones who I know don't really like it. But then, if there's a resort at the end of the line, well, that kinda changes things.


 


User currently onlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3388 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11161 times:

I think PHL could be a potential down the road a bit. SLC-PHL used to be 2x 738 with some 752's mixed in on DL before the DL/NW merger. Since the merger I believe it has come down to the current 1x 738.

User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4036 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11161 times:

Quoting PHLapproach (Reply 1):
Bout time US shows some love to SLC from the East! I could have sworn rather recently someone brought up in a thread why US SLC service was non-exsistant from the east hubs. Although I think PHL brought up before CLT...

Yup. I was the one who predicted PHL first, but as CLT had no service on any airline yet, it does look like a better choice than PHL. One of the most obvious holes to fill on the US route map - disregarding the areas currently served by the UA codeshare  
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 6):
Is the route only seasonal? I find it odd that a flight to a ski destination to operate in Spring/Summer only. They can probably get some business traffic on the route, SLC is after all the industrial banking capital of the US.

O&D and connections in CLT should be enough to drive this flight year-round. If an A320 doesn't work, a 319 would probably suffice nicely.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3356 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11130 times:

I think US is going with the A320 because its not worried about filling the seats and this will allow them to sell at a lower cost per seat. I think the flight will be mostly vacationers headed to SLC and people connecting in CLT mostly to leisure destinations.

Quoting FutureUScapt (Reply 7):
SLC is simply one of the next logical choices for US from its CLT hub and I think DL will see it as such.

Delta tends to be extremely aggressive at defending SLC but yeah i agree it just makes sense for US to try this. They will probably price match usairways or even lower fares with a connection. Delta could jump in with A319 non red eye but i could see them providing pricing pressure on us instead. They know the loyal CLT area flyers are gonna fly US for miles if its the same price and us has alot of connection options to help them even if delta puts some pressure on.

[Edited 2011-11-06 16:49:18]

User currently onlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2052 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 11053 times:

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 12):
I think PHL could be a potential down the road a bit.

Once they are able to combine east and west operations, it becomes much more likely.


User currently onlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 10970 times:

Quoting silentbob (Reply 15):
Once they are able to combine east and west operations, it becomes much more likely.

how is that? I don't think it would really make a difference. You will notice that CLT-SLC is being run with West metal.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7829 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10914 times:

Is there still a big difference between US East and Wests!? Even DL is pretty much fully integrated...


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently onlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2052 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9973 times:

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 16):
how is that? I don't think it would really make a difference.

Once an east crew can bring in an airplane and a west crew can take it out, it will improve the efficiency of the operation. As of now, they crews (and aircraft) are still segregated.


User currently offlinemah584jr From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 506 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 9636 times:

Now they just need to add OKC...

User currently offlinejetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2763 posts, RR: 33
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 9341 times:

Quoting mah584jr (Reply 19):
Now they just need to add OKC...

^ This.   

Hopefully one day.



No info
User currently offlineBA744PHX From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8354 times:

Saturday only PHX-LGA also announced

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....rticle_print&ID=1626852&highlight=


User currently offlinejoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8173 times:

Quoting mah584jr (Reply 19):
Now they just need to add OKC...

I don't believe that US serves OKC period. I'd look from DSM and/or OMA to CLT first. Really thought this would have been added a couple of years ago. Just my two cents.


User currently offlineFLYjoe From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 287 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7947 times:

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 6):
DL previously flew this route with a 738. The route was a victim of the 2008 Financial Crisis.

Didn't Delta start CLT-SLC service in retaliation to US Airways' hostile takeover attempt? I believe they also started service between PIT-SLC and JFK-PHX.


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3037 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7872 times:

Quoting mah584jr (Reply 19):
Now they just need to add OKC...
Quoting joeljack (Reply 22):
OMA to CLT first.

Both are good routes for E-Jets. I think OMA would be started before OKC because US already operates at OMA and much more expensive to open a new city than just add another flight to a city where it already operates.

Quoting FLYjoe (Reply 23):
Didn't Delta start CLT-SLC service in retaliation to US Airways' hostile takeover attempt? I believe they also started service between PIT-SLC and JFK-PHX.

I'm not really sure. It was announced late 2007, with the first flight being March 2008.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
25 jkudall : It'll be interesting to see what Delta retaliates with. When it was operating 2-3 years ago, Delta s SLC-CLT was always full. They discontinued it wit
26 point2point : I can see DL adding their own flight. Then of course, with a low introductory fare, and a zillion FF points. Then US will have to do the same thing.
27 WesternA318 : The only issue I have is with the lousy timing to connec to US's stellar TATL services, however, that being said, if this red eye works for the Caribb
28 Cubsrule : Why would DL retaliate? What history does DL have of retaliation against other legacies adding routes to their largest hub?
29 Post contains images point2point : Geeee... it's barely Monday morning and already the "snarkies" are out eh?
30 Cubsrule : Not from me - just asking. CLT-SLC is a hole in DL's SLC route map, but if they start the route, it won't have much to do with US' announcement. US i
31 Post contains images point2point : Hmmmmmm? I think that that sounds very legalese to me..... Anyways..... all the best.
32 slcdeltarumd11 : Delta has retaliated in the past on SLC expansions. When Air Canada added SLC-Toronto Delta started a MD-90 flight immiedately to run AC out of SLC.
33 Cubsrule : I think your next sentence answers that question: US will pick up a ton of CLT-originating traffic, but I doubt DL gets much of that traffic anyway.
34 point2point : If a CLT originating pax currently wanted to do CLT-SLC on US, the connection point would be PHX, correct? That I think is somewhat out of the way, a
35 Cubsrule : Not really - it seems to split amongst a number of carriers (heck, AA has 20 percent of the market with no FFs to speak of on either end). Again, why
36 Post contains images point2point : Well, I think that the 'why' is the easy part. If they do, it's to protect their market. Now, if they get 40% of this traffic, and there are 85 CLT o
37 Cubsrule : No. They are not getting 40 percent of the CLT originators. They are getting 40 percent of the total O&D traffic, and it is (or should be) obviou
38 BoeingGuy : I'm still waiting to see if SEA-CLT is next in AS's bag of tricks. I never would have guessed MCI would be next out of SEA, so who knows.
39 TWA902fly : Earlier someone mentioned that there are 85 pax per day in each direction on SLC-CLT. Another person mentioned that DL has 40% of that traffic... so
40 Cubsrule : Correct, but I bet most of that is SLC-originating. Why would someone in SLC fly any other carrier? They get SkyPesos and plentiful connections in AT
41 Post contains images point2point : Let's see if we can agree on numbers here, okay? With 170 ppd, that's about 85 SLC-CLT, and then 85 CLT-SLC, yes? If DL has 40% m/s, then that's 68 p
42 Cubsrule : Probably a decent guess. Why would we assume that?
43 point2point : Well, I don't know that this is assuming. I believe that I used the word - interpret. And I interpret this as such because this is what simple math i
44 Cubsrule : You are assuming that DL has the same share of CLT originators and SLC originators - why?
45 jkudall : When DL started SLC-PIT and SLC-CLT previously, they were both announced right after US Airways had announced some trans-cons that directly competed w
46 Post contains images point2point : This isn't an assumption. Absent any other information at this time with regards to this, this is what best can be inferred in this situation with th
47 DeltaMD90 : DL can be aggressive (like starting MIA-LGA after AA starts ATL-LGA, defending their hubs against LCCs especially B6, etc) but they don't seem to have
48 Cubsrule : But we do have other information - DL has a fortress hub at SLC and a much higher share of originating passengers than US and US has a fortress hub a
49 slcdeltarumd11 : In the case of SLC-CLT as a route i am sure there is alot more passengers originating in CLT than SLC. This will be an advanatage to US and its FF bas
50 Post contains images point2point : Yes, we do know that, and I agree here. However, this, at least for me, doesn't have that big of a significance with regards to how I would DL's posi
51 Cubsrule : You are still assuming that DL has a 40 percent share of both CLT-SLC-CLT and SLC-CLT-SLC. Why?
52 point2point : As stated, because of this and you mentioned it. Just using your number. If it's different, then obviously other numbers change.
53 Cubsrule : But the 40 percent number is an average (or, I guess more accurately, a weighted average) of CLT-SLC-CLT and SLC-CLT-SLC. That's why I'm puzzled by t
54 point2point : Do you have a source for this? Then we can look and see what's doing, and what can be concluded.
55 Cubsrule : It's from the Q410 T100 numbers.
56 point2point : Okay, but specifically please. There's an awful lot of info there, and where particularly does it show that the traffic between SLC-CLT is 40% DL. If
57 Cubsrule : It would not shock me to learn that Delta has well north of 50 percent of the SLC-CLT-SLC traffic. Given the dynamics of the market, why would it sur
58 HPRamper : In terms of FF base, or actual physical presence? DL has more mainline presence at CLT than UA+US at SLC, by a long shot. UA only has one mainline fl
59 USAirALB : DL has 16 flights to CLT on mainline, for a total of 30 flights a day to CLT. Granted, more than 1/3 of the 30 flights is to ATL, but with service to
60 Cubsrule : FWIW, DL has been the number 2 carrier in CLT for some time (dating back at least to when I moved there in 2003).
61 point2point : Do you have a specific number that's a percentage here then? As of right now, without a specific number here, I'm can be as certain as possible that
62 Cubsrule : No, because you can't capture SLC originators versus CLT originators in the T100 data. You can capture segment traffic, but the directional differenc
63 Post contains images point2point : Thank you for this. I haven't really looked at this site too closely, but now I guess that I will now, since there may be info there that's not anywh
64 Cubsrule : How do you know that? Probably not on this city pair. It would not shock me if a market like MIA-MCO has some oddities with segments once in a while
65 point2point : We can infer that in this instance with the info that we have, considering the low end of the equation. And I do think that the 20% percent differenc
66 Cubsrule : Do you agree that in general, DL gets more SLC-originating traffic than US and in general, US gets more CLT-originating traffic than DL? If so, why w
67 slcdeltarumd11 : It's Deltas move. I think there's a good chancethey just fare match and wait to see if they loose too much. They have data on CLT it's not a total mys
68 FL787 : Delta is starting CLT-SLC in retaliation. Check their desktop timetable: SLC-CLT 1700-2251 320 D CLT-SLC 0745-1021 320 D Former NW route planners are
69 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : LOL why am I not surprised... No they aren't, if they were, DL would have announced SLC-PHL, LAX-CLT, and PHX-AMS
70 USAirALB : Great. So now the previously underserved route is now surpersaturated. I'm shocked they are using an A320 on this route, too.
71 Post contains images point2point : Is it possible that the DL planner have been reading my info here? Yeah, right eh?
72 jetlanta : Delta's response isn't just about SLC-CLT. Its about SLC-Southeast U.S.
73 Cubsrule : They need to take a page out of US's scheduling playbook. Those times are less than ideal for local passengers and horrendous for connecting passenge
74 Post contains images point2point : I think that's a lot of the reason. Other than price though, what can US SLC-CLT-xxx offer that DL SLC-ATL-xxx can't be had, and even better with ATL
75 smoot4208 : This is retaliation nothing more. If it was about the southeast, they would've brought back TPA, FLL, RDU, BNA, CLT (prior to US announcing it) if th
76 jetlanta : Its a great schedule for CLT-originating paxs. Wrong. Its about making US miserable on this route and forcing them off of it. Delta isn't trying to c
77 FlyPNS1 : The times are fine for connections. They connect directly into some of SLC's largest banks. You'll be able to easily fly routes like EUG-SLC-CLT or S
78 BoeingGuy : I wouldn't necessarily say that is totally out of the realm of possibility. What's the population of the Arizona cachement area and DL's little AMS f
79 point2point : No, this wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility. Anything is possible, although I credit the poster with probably even out-thinking the DL/NW re
80 jetlanta : What do you mean? The losses Delta might experience on this route pale in comparison to the losses that Delta could have if US establishes itself as
81 nutsaboutplanes : I think the US flight is going to stick.......they do a pretty good job of pricing and should be able to build the necessary traffic from the CLT hub.
82 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : I think it is an all or nothing situation. This seems like a play right from DL (and NW)'s playbook. There were a bunch of routes IIRC that FL would
83 usflyer msp : I would concur. The feed available for US at CLT is much stronger than the feed DL can get at SLC. Additionally, US is using aircraft that would othe
84 jetlanta : You aren't looking at the picture. Delta is a strongly profitable $30+ Billion company. It isn't worried about ownership costs or anything thing of t
85 point2point : I personally view this as revenge with benefits. Hmmmmm? But this can open up another option for CLT and region into the Mountain West. Before, more
86 USAirALB : We have to remember US isn't stupid-they knew DL would retaliate right back at them. They'll probably offer some big Dividend Miles bonus for CLT pax
87 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : That is a bit different. There are lots of alliance members on the same route, and often they codeshare on these flights. Bottom line, they usually t
88 Cubsrule : How? They can't work a full day on either end. US passengers can.
89 nutsaboutplanes : Judging by the number of pax that connect in PHX from PHL, CLT and other points east.......this makes sense.
90 jetlanta : How many people do you really think make day trips in a market like this? You can't be serious.
91 usflyer msp : My point is, all things being equal, DL will lose more money on the route than US will because of the scheduling. CLT and the southeast are much more
92 point2point : ?? A little more elaboration please, if you can? Maybe not many, but I would think that these are the ones that pay $$$$$$$
93 Post contains images nutsaboutplanes : The airline runs high LF's between PHX and SLC......the vast majority of these are conx and a good number of them from the east meaning they are only
94 MAH4546 : A domestic market the size and length or CLTSLC was never underserved.
95 USAirALB : I find it funny that you have said that because, it the past you told me: Well now CLT will have two airlines operating CLT-SLC. And after looking at
96 jetlanta : How can you make that assumption? Delta's flights will clearly generate more revenue than US' red-eyes. Seriously, exactly what % of people on a 150
97 Post contains images flyguy89 : 170 passengers per day total, but you have to cut that in half to get the estimate for the passengers daily each way (PDEW) numbers Pretty sure he me
98 MAH4546 : Not sure what states you are looking at, but they are not correct, probably because they are based on quarterly statistics and airport pairs, rather
99 HPRamper : US keeps trying to bring back CLT-PDX in fits and starts...seasonally, cut here and brought back there. It's just too long a stage length for them to
100 Cubsrule : None, or almost none. But this isn't about day trips. It's about not losing as much work on the travel day. Look at westbound - on the US flight, I c
101 point2point : Okay, ty and now I got it, and with that I guess that I can agree that CLT will offer US some connect pax from the east, but I'm thinking that maybe
102 slcdeltarumd11 : I think the timing is to offer connections in SLC and to have a mon red eye to compete with US. DL is defending it's profitable fortress hub
103 smoot4208 : CLT-PDX has been seasonally served since it started in 2006. It should be back next May. US doesn't always load seasonal domestic routes very far int
104 slcdeltarumd11 : Its funny SLC-CLT non-stop goes from zero seats N/S to 298 each way. The real winners are the passengers in CLT and SLC since both hubs have so many
105 jetlanta : Evening departures to the west are certainly fine. But there are two major problems for the local CLT market with the US schedule. The evening depart
106 MAH4546 : Correct, my error. I had already looked up the PDEW and then inadvertently divided by two. CLTSLC is ~82 PDEW and MIASLC is ~178 PDEW.
107 Cubsrule : Redeyes are a personal thing. I don't know what the numbers are among higher revenue travelers, but some swear by them. One of my common travel partn
108 DeltAirlines : From the Charlotte end, yes Delta has the better schedule. Leave in the morning, get to Salt Lake mid morning or the West Coast at lunchtime. On the
109 WesternA318 : I have a bunch of my clientsw who fly US pretty much exclusively out of SLC, and they got tired of connecting through PHX and then through CLT to get
110 HPRamper : I'm seeing nothing but argument over what is best for business travel. Realistically, most airline passengers are not traveling on business. If the ro
111 avi8 : Where in the world did Delta get that airplane availability and have it very well timed for their hub flights?
112 Cubsrule : This is why I'm not sure that DL needs the nonstop. DL's connecting options are vastly superior to what US (or anyone else) has; I don't see DL picki
113 jetlanta : But legacy carriers don't make money without those business travelers and DL's schedule is a body-blow to US' opportunity to be profitable in this ma
114 Cubsrule : Then I'll ask the right question: why bother retaliating? Seems like DL has historically played pretty nice with other legacies.
115 FlyPNS1 : That's to accommodate connections because the reality is that most of the people on this flight will be connecting....not O&D. To discourage US f
116 Cubsrule : How's that different from AA LGA-ATL (which saw a ho-hum reaction), CVG-LGA (which saw no reaction) or CVG-MIA (which similarly saw - and sees - no r
117 FlyPNS1 : DL already flew those routes, so there wasn't much reason to respond.
118 CV880 : It's probably immaterial to US whether it's traffic is connecting or O&D. On the other hand, DL could gain by capturing O&D traffic as well a
119 jetlanta : See below. Exactly. Not only does US entering CLT-SLC add competition for traffic between SLC and the Southwest, it also allows US' generally more ag
120 Cubsrule : It just doesn't seem worth it for the 8 PDEW to CAE or the 7 PDEW to ILM.
121 FlyPNS1 : But when you add in SAV, JAX, TLH, AGS, TYS, HSV, GNV, GSO, CHA, VPS, etc...the numbers become worth something. DL remains the 800lb gorilla in the s
122 Cubsrule : How much fare pressure would US add in JAX (or RDU or BHM or ORF) that WN isn't already applying?
123 HPRamper : I think it would be an alternative option for the pax who want perks or F, in which of course DL holds the advantage over WN. DL is smart to not want
124 jetlanta : Cubs, you are just missing the big picture here. It isn't just about those PDEW, which FlyPNS1 is correct to say is substantial, it is about the impa
125 slcdeltarumd11 : Southwest certainly does a good job of fare pressure thats true and the smaller NON WN cities will be the most to benefit. Even with the exisiting ci
126 Cubsrule : . . . most of whom are not flying Delta anyway. How does miles versus revenue matter in this discussion? It may be clear, but outside of SLCCLT, wher
127 DeltaMD90 : I'm not 100% sure, but I think DL started MIA-LGA when AA started LGA-ATL...
128 HPRamper : So would you surmise that US may actually take more UA traffic than DL traffic? In terms of FF perks. Stage length is nice for those programs that gi
129 Cubsrule : Yes. In terms of local traffic, I think the US loyalists are flying Star and the DL loyalists are flying DL today (that's consistent with DL having a
130 HPRamper : The only modifier I can think of is that with business travel, quite often the company foots the bill while letting the passenger snag the FF miles.
131 jetlanta : Its a message to US and every other carrier that Delta isn't going to let someone come in and snatch lucrative flows away. It may or may be successfu
132 avi8 : Where did Delta get the airplane availability from?
133 Cubsrule : If that's the message, why isn't DL starting DCA-CLT or PHL-BOS? When did DL's CASM suddenly become lower than US's?
134 jetlanta : Fine Cubs, you are right. Its not the message. I'm certain Delta has been working on this opportunity for months and the announcement is a total coin
135 Post contains images point2point : LOL, the later it gets, the more the comedians. At any rate, maybe both US and DL are just preparing themselves for the WN invasion that's sure to hi
136 DeltaMD90 : WN already flies to SLC though...
137 slcdeltarumd11 : Because those would be guranteed money loses for DL. They at least want to protect SLC at the same time they show US they mean business. Good questio
138 Cubsrule : I see the message. I question its efficacy. DL and US aren't chasing many of the same passengers on the CLT-SLC flights. Maybe it's about protecting
139 DeltAirlines : Pretty much this. The passengers from a Salt Lake side that US will be competing with are against the Delta redeye to Atlanta and to Kennedy to a les
140 CV880 : Looks as if the flight could do a SLC-SJC or SEA roundtrip. The March sked shows a CVG-SLC-SJC flight on a 738, changing to an A320 at SLC, which mak
141 slcdeltarumd11 : so it looks like deltas first flight is march 2 from slc-clt and the first clt-slc march3. I understand it sends a clear message to US this was retali
142 Post contains links slcdeltarumd11 : http://flights.usairways.com/en-US/t.../destinations/phx-lga-clt-slc.html
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