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Video: A330 Almost Hovering Midair!  
User currently offlineTCASAlert From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 30407 times:

Yes I woudn't have believed it had I not seen the video. However with the right amount of headwind, and the right angle of attack, these CX pilots apparently managed to pull it off!

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d16_1320894540&p=1

Looks like they're having a go at being bush pilots!

 Wow!

[Edited 2011-11-10 11:03:50]

71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineflipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 30349 times:
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SWEET!

I wonder what would happen if there was a conveyor belt under it?   

Fred


User currently offlineBY738 From Tonga, joined Sep 2000, 2364 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 30192 times:

Dangerous and unnecessary ?

User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5634 posts, RR: 29
Reply 3, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 30173 times:

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 1):
SWEET!

I wonder what would happen if there was a conveyor belt under it?

Ha ha - Here we go!  

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21681 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 29876 times:

Quoting BY738 (Reply 2):
Dangerous and unnecessary ?

It's an airshow. They always do low-speed fly-bys at airshows. This time, there happened to be a headwind involved. No big deal, really.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineVS773ER From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2004, 279 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 29628 times:

What are the practicalities of planning a stunt like that? Surely the margins must have been tight? The headwind must have been quite something. Would they rely on asi or plan more intricately than that?
Fascinating.


User currently offlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2770 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 29487 times:

Very impressive! Almost kinda scary. 


View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2761 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 29401 times:

After reading all the AF 447 threads and reports I simply have to ask this question: such a maneuver is only possible in alternate law, correct?

User currently offlinercair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1327 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 29084 times:
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Quoting N14AZ (Reply 7):
After reading all the AF 447 threads and reports I simply have to ask this question: such a maneuver is only possible in alternate law, correct?

No - actually I think they were relying on normal law prots - basically alpha-protection which means you can haul back on the stick and the plane will hold at max angle of attack.
What this reminded me of what the infamous A300 crash - except this was done at an altitude that allowed it to pull before it hit the trees.



rcair1
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3677 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 28809 times:

Talk about a near stall!      

User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 28784 times:

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 8):
A300

A320 I think lol


User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 781 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 28649 times:
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Quoting 747400sp (Reply 9):
Talk about a near stall!

One of the main Airbus features: the flight envelope - if engages, the plane is not able to climb too fast or make a turn too fast. Stalling an Airbus should be virtually impossible. (I wonder what happened with AF447 though....)


User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2841 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 28543 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 4):
It's an airshow. They always do low-speed fly-bys at airshows. This time, there happened to be a headwind involved. No big deal, really.

Agreed. It's no different than a bird hovering in a strong wind. The aerodynamic forces involved are no different than when you fly C-150 backwards in a strong headwind. Actually, that demonstration itself shows how airspeed is very different from groundspeed. Do you all think the indicated airspeed was 0 knots?



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineNZaholic From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 27763 times:

This was at Farnborough, way back, don't recall the year but I was there. I think it was shortly before the 330 entered airline service.

The 333 was at the time, by far the biggest twinjet flying, and did look almost stationary at times during the display.
In reality, minimum airspeed (don't forget, that can be completely different to groundspeed) was probably
around 100kt, and we have all now got used to Airbus doing this type of stuff at airshows with their large aeroplanes.

The other reason I remember this display was that there was an active Cb (with lightning) as a backdrop which added to the drama.


User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 27690 times:

These CX pilots.. always flying crazy!   

But seriously, I think this shows just how "capable" Airbus aircraft are.



Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlinesandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 26815 times:
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Yes I also think there is quite a steep climb happening here which will create the impression of slow ground speed.

Sandyb123



Member of the mile high club
User currently offlinerolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 26563 times:

What if... wind drops...


rolf
User currently offlineDesh From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 25822 times:

Quoting rolfen (Reply 16):

Yeah , a lot hanging on a uncontrollable factor here , given the altitude there would be no time for recovery. I cannot imagine insurance company to be OK with this.


cool as hell , almost ... Almost comes close to that famous barrel roll from a long time ago.



"History is merely a list of surprises. It can only prepare us to be surprised yet again." - Kurt Vonnegut
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8639 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 25607 times:

Quoting rolfen (Reply 16):
What if... wind drops...

Can it do that uncommanded?  


User currently offlineAccidentally From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 643 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 25121 times:
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Certainly looks like fun but I'd be afraid of dropping an engine that slow and low. Is that a risk they take, or is it not as bad of a situation as it would seem?

-Cory



Cory Crabtree - crab453 - Indianapolis - 2R2 - 1966 PA-32-260
User currently offlineSLCPilot From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 589 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 24867 times:

Rolfen hit the nail on the head. Steady state winds work, but the atmosphere is dynamic and continuously changing. It raises a truly interesting question, what would happen in Normal Law if the winds aloft suddenly decreased? I suspect the nose would automatically drop, respecting AOA limits.

Given an empty airplane and a light fuel load, impressive performance is easier to come by, but the margins looked smaller with this flight demo.

SLCPilot



I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 24623 times:

I bet you at least on of the pilots had a death grip on the throttles ready to push it to the max!


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 24622 times:

Really?...when weather is unstable...LOW fly by's hanging on the power curve in a transport aircraft is suicide as the potential for the backside of a wind gust could result in 20 knot wind speed drop..ie...augured in aircraft with all aboard dead. While Airbus aircraft have the ability to be flown much like C-172's...they are not C-172's and should not be treated like one. Remember Bud Holland, the B-52 pilot out in Fairchild AFB in WA State?...he scared his crews to death while flying at airshows so much so that the best he could get out of them was one airshow before they quit. He wowed the audience by treating the Buff like a high performance aerobatic aircraft which it obviously is not...subsequently he finally crashed and burned while pulling 90 banked turns 200feet off the deck over the base. Sure made for a great video though...

User currently offlinebeau222 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 23904 times:

So was this a planned Maneuver or did the Captain take advantage of the situation on take off? Seems like I remember a CX Captain getting suspended for doing unauthorized stunts.

User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4979 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (2 years 11 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 23689 times:

That is one flight I wouldn't mind being on! 

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
25 Oshkosh1 : The illusion is caused more through the optical "compression" using the telephoto feature, it's large size, and relative position of the camera than t
26 FlyAAS80 : So, you lose your headwind... Drop the nose, throttle forward, plenty of altitude to recover. Remember that these aren't some weekend warriors trying
27 soon7x7 : I don't see any use of telephoto here on the video...on days like the one as evident in the video the winds aloft at 700 agl can be much greater than
28 flylku : Not if they're flying it by the numbers.
29 tdscanuck : In normal law...haul back on the stick to alpha-prot, modulate power to hold altitude. Possible in alternate, easier in normal. Power up, nose down.
30 CaptainCanuck : If you watch during the low pass, the delay between the anti-collision strobes on the wingtips seem to be much longer than usual, which make me believ
31 beeweel15 : Remeber seeing that display but at the Paris Airshow. It was quiet impressive I was spell bound watching them fly a passenger plane like that. Wish I
32 Speedbird128 : Well it didn't fall out the sky in this footage, so I would wager that it was above that speed... Also, from this vantage point it is deceptively slo
33 mafi29 : Don't mistake air speed for ground speed. Example: If you have a 50 kt head wind, your 120 kt air speed results in 70 kt ground speed.
34 CCA : Airbus pilots with an Airbus plane prior to delivery to CX, this was not done by CX pilots.
35 Post contains links and images derekf : I don't why this is suddenly doing the rounds. Anyway, as someone who there.... View Large View MediumPhoto © Derek Ferguson This was from Farnboroug
36 Speedbird128 : Doh! Didn't read properly!!! But my point was even at low weights the chances of a low approach below IAS120 is slim... GS was for sure below... Sorr
37 Post contains images GLAGAZ : I've hovered in a PA28-161 warrior before Sat there for 10minutes or so not moving an inch. A330 is slightly different right enough. Gaz
38 Post contains images Julian773 : Haha so have I with my instructor doing stalling! I think we even flew "backwards" due to the headwind component at a point. It was funny looking dow
39 soon7x7 : I am referring to its ground speed while aloft in a strong headwind, while its airspeed may well be above 100kts, its relative ground speed is not. I
40 PITrules : Alpha-Prot (Alpha Protection, or "Angle of attack PROTection", for the layman) is a designed automated last line of defense safety feature in an Airb
41 AviRaider : The video looks slowed or altered to me. Watch the landing, at first, it's real slow and then the aircraft touches down and then it gradually gets fas
42 tdscanuck : If there were 30 knot deviations that day and the A330 wasn't capable of recovering from it, Airbus wouldn't have tried to fly it and Farnborough wou
43 United787 : Awesome...would have been even more awesome if they were closer to the ground and just set it on the ground like a Harrier...
44 Speedbird128 : Thanks, I did correct myself in a subsequent post........
45 Post contains images mandala499 : Hmm... 230 ton Airbus A330 Stopping in Mid Air... the title of the vid itself is misleading... 230 tons is likely to be the MTOW... Aircraft was also
46 Post contains images airproxx : HAHAHAHA Tell me about it...!! THAT is a damn good question....! The world of aviation grew up only with safe and necessary tries and projects, this
47 musang : I thought Airbus thrust levers stayed in a detent and didn't move? Hardly comparable! He was a self-appointed maverick cowboy test pilot with illusio
48 SandroZRH : Only if A/THR is engaged, and even then the crew is always able to apply max available thrust manually by pushing the levers forward. Of course you c
49 Post contains images PGNCS : You think Airbus crews didn't plan this out in meticulous detail? They put on a very impressive demonstration of the low-speed capabilities of their
50 26point2 : Total fail. This video is a fake. Sure there's a breeze but do you think those umbrellas would hold up to what wind this would take? Yes. a/c is at 10
51 Post contains images SandroZRH : Yeah, quite clearly
52 JAAlbert : My thoughts exactly. At that height it didn't look like the plane had any room for recovery if the wind changed. I recall a video of a C-17 or some s
53 Post contains images soon7x7 : Tom, you should know of all here that weather is constantly in flux and can change even to the point of exceeding forecasts. Despite all good intenti
54 tdscanuck : That's all very true, but it's based on what I think is an incorrect assumption...that the plane couldn't have climbed away even with a shear. The ex
55 musang : You should consider the testimonies of the several contributors to this thead who have witnessed these routine Airbus displays at air shows. Regards
56 XXXX10 : I was there, although it was 17 years ago I am sure the wind wasn't that strong perhaps 15-20 knots. The video looks real enough to me, seems how I re
57 SchorschNG : When really going on "empty weight plus a bucket of fuel" your A330-300 has a flying gross weight of 135t. It has a reasonable thrust-to-weight ratio
58 rolfen : It's just that, seeing that video, it's awfully hard to believe that there were "plenty of margin available". Life has taught me not to dismiss my in
59 Post contains links gilesdavies : Go to this link, also with the same video and explains how it is done... http://www.geekologie.com/2011/11/wh...u-think-you-are-a-helicopter-w.php
60 tdscanuck : I had a similar conversation with the A380 crew at Farnborough a few years ago and they said they were at 93 knots...combine that with a good headwin
61 XXXX10 : Can any airbus drivers help? can you set the auto-thrust for these low speeds?would they have been using manual thrust?
62 Post contains links Pihero : It baffles me that after more than twenty-five years of full digital FBW on an airliner, people still haven't grasped the very basics , as if some hav
63 PITrules : I was thinking Alpha Floor, but typed Alpha Max (been a Boeing driver for several years now). My mistake on verbiage, but quite a leap to suggest min
64 Pihero : That's a mistake that's very unlikely to be an Airbus driver's... and it's not only a question of "verbiage", it's saying what is behind the concept
65 PITrules : Agreed saying what's behind the concept is what really counts... with that in mind I'm still not sure what is conceptionally or technically incorrect
66 tdscanuck : No, but they do the airshow demonstration to illustrate the automation...the fact that this maneuver is considerably easier in an Airbus than a Boein
67 whiplash : This is unbelievable..
68 Pihero : Exceeding Alpha floor will trigger TOGA, whatever the T/L position(s) or the A/THR engagement status. And sorry to be pedantic, -Floor and -Max are c
69 PITrules : And if you would have read the next sentence or two after what you quoted me you would have seen I mention they are two different concepts. I mention
70 tdscanuck : That is certainly not what's going on in this case. You can bet that at least one of the crews is monitoring the flight controls at all times...perso
71 Post contains images mandala499 : Test Pilots anyone? Question... was Bud Holland a B-52 test pilot? Bank angle limitations, minimum clearance altitudes... the guy had a repeat of vio
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