atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 15720 times:
DALLAS, Nov. 13, 2011 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ --
Southwest Airlines (NYSE: LUV) and its wholly owned subsidiary AirTran Airways announced today new destinations and nonstop routes as they extend their flight schedules for reservations from June 3, 2012, through Aug. 10, 2012 (some flights begin as early as May 24, 2012). Southwest announced new Houston nonstop service and AirTran will add nonstop service between Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood and San Juan, Puerto Rico, as well as new Denver nonstop routes.
In addition, AirTran announced plans to expand its international presence with four new nonstop routes to Mexico: San Antonio to Cancun and Mexico City beginning May 2012, and Orange County, Calif. to Cabo San Lucas and Mexico City beginning June 2012. This service is subject to government approval and is not yet for sale. Specific frequencies and fares for these international routes will be announced once the appropriate approvals are received. AirTran does not currently serve Orange County, so the future introduction of AirTran service to these markets is a direct benefit of Southwest's acquisition of AirTran.
jonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 637 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 15721 times:
Quoting atrude777 (Thread starter): Two daily roundtrip flights between Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood and San Juan
I always wondered why FL didn't enter this market. There's a ton of demand ad a good opportunity for them here.
RoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8737 posts, RR: 52 Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 15682 times:
Great to see WN using some of FL's assets including its ability to operate internationally.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
Kcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3628 posts, RR: 7 Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 15656 times:
Quoting atrude777 (Thread starter):
One daily roundtrip flight between Denver and Akron-Canton
One daily roundtrip flight between Denver and Dayton
ERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6626 posts, RR: 19 Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 15654 times:
Finally! RDU-Houston Hobby.. was hoping for another FLL flight on WN or B6 but oh well... was thinking another ATL flight or 2 but oh well also..
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15722 posts, RR: 48 Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 15587 times:
Quoting atrude777 (Thread starter): Two daily roundtrip flights between Ft. Lauderdale/Hollywood and San Juan
Sandwiched between NK and B6--it's the new BWIBOS! Probably the same fare too
Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 2): I always wondered why FL didn't enter this market. There's a ton of demand ad a good opportunity for them here.
Where? What is NK/B6 leaving behind with 7+/- daily flights, never mind MIA?
jonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 637 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 15554 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 6): Where? What is NK/B6 leaving behind with 7+/- daily flights, never mind MIA?
Let me rephrase that... I always wondered why there weren't more carriers in the market. AA has their monopoly on MIA and NK and B6 have their own respected traffic. A 2X daily service can easily be sustainable.
WWTRAVELER99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 265 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 15523 times:
if i remember correctly wasn't SNA offering a cash incentive to start new international service? I guess WN decided to get a little money and give this a try.
atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 15518 times:
Bill Owens from Southwest Airlines mentions some details in the intl markets and the new domestic routes.
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15722 posts, RR: 48 Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 15479 times:
Quoting jonathanxxxx (Reply 7): Let me rephrase that... I always wondered why there weren't more carriers in the market. AA has their monopoly on MIA and NK and B6 have their own respected traffic. A 2X daily service can easily be sustainable.
It'll be interesting to watch. Honestly I think WN is so late to the Puerto Rico party that they offer no value vs B6, who has much lower unit costs anyway.
WWTRAVELER99 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 265 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 15397 times:
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 12): When did Orange County SNA got (is getting) a F.I.S.?
Wasn't that a mistake and it should say WN/FL plans ONT-SJC and ONT-MEX instead?
OzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4680 posts, RR: 23 Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 15397 times:
It'll be interesting to watch. Honestly I think WN is so late to the Puerto Rico party that they offer no value vs B6, who has much lower unit costs anyway.
As someone who lives in B6 flyover country, the WN/FL service to SJU is certainly of value to me as I'm planning on visiting SJU next year. WN's impact on the FLL-SJU route itself may be minor, but WN offers the national feed B6 can only dream about.
ERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6626 posts, RR: 19 Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15294 times:
From what I can tell, the following are ALL seasonal service..
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15722 posts, RR: 48 Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15293 times:
Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 14): As someone who lives in B6 flyover country, the WN/FL service to SJU is certainly of value to me as I'm planning on visiting SJU next year. WN's impact on the FLL-SJU route itself may be minor, but WN offers the national feed B6 can only dream about.
B6 has probably looked at their still considerable feed into JFKSJU and decided it wasn't worth taking more feed. FL already has much more feed from ATL and even BWI to SJU, so FLLSJU doesn't bring much to the network in that sense.
Quoting atrude777 (Reply 10): The Mexico Expansion and Route Authority will be interesting to watch!
The SATMEX is going to be interesting. Both Interjet and Southwest's first foray into ethnic transborder, on the same route, with zero name recognition on the other side of the border. It's a good time to be someone that needs a SATMEX ticket!
atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15247 times:
srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51 Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15199 times:
Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 8): But how is the Airtran crew going to get to SNA???
Options include deadheading into SNA via another airline from another FL city that sees SNA service from another airline. They could perhaps fly into LAX and then get transported to SNA from there. Another possibility could be to schedule crews to work multi-day trips that originate at ATL and puts them between the various markets in Mexico and SNA and SAT.
OzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4680 posts, RR: 23 Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15196 times:
so FLLSJU doesn't bring much to the network in that sense.
On its own, you are correct. I'm interested in seeing if those flights are scheduled for the local market or if FLL is being used as a stop on routings such as HOU-FLL-SJU or MDW-SJU-FLL in which case the feed potential is healthier.
atrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5613 posts, RR: 54 Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15074 times:
Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 19): OK didn't even see SNA-Mexico city my bad. Mexico city-SNA-cabo-SNA-Mexico city. That's where the Airtran crew coming from. enjoy wnfg
Also SAT-MEX is being looked at too.
Pretty easy routing...
ATL-SAT-MEX (or overnight in SAT)
MEX-SNA-Cabo-SNA
SNA-MEX-SAT-ATL
3 day trip 2 overnights.
I am sure it will be different but that's a pretty easy routing to figure out Air Tran into.
Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21216 posts, RR: 19 Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 15070 times:
I've never understood why they can't make MCI-HOU work year-round, but then again I think both MCI and STL ought to be able to support more Texas service.
Quoting atrude777 (Thread starter): Two daily roundtrip flights between Denver and New York LaGuardia
This is a smart addition; LGA-DEN is a route they ought to be on but the Saturday only plan was not working and cutting BWI or MDW frequency was never tenable.
Do we know for sure that these are the PHF slots? That's the most logical guess.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
ScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6358 posts, RR: 34 Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14986 times:
Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 4): One daily roundtrip flight between Denver and Akron-Canton
One daily roundtrip flight between Denver and Dayton
Two shots at Frontier.
The bigger shot at Frontier is:
Quoting atrude777 (Thread starter): Two daily roundtrip flights between Denver and New York LaGuardia
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16): The SATMEX is going to be interesting. Both Interjet and Southwest's first foray into ethnic transborder, on the same route, with zero name recognition on the other side of the border. It's a good time to be someone that needs a SATMEX ticket!
Interjet will have connections at MEX, Southwest/AirTran will have connections at SAT from DAL/HOU/ELP/HRL/BNA/BWI/ATL/DEN/MDW. And CO ran SAT-MEX as a point-to-point route for many years.
Quoting UAL747 (Reply 1): Finally, we got OKC-MDW. This was long overdue
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 16): FL already has much more feed from ATL and even BWI to SJU, so FLLSJU doesn't bring much to the network in that
WN does have quite a few unique non-stop routes into FLL as feed, but this might also be a message to B6 & NK as both encroach into some of WN's markets.
enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 14938 times:
Quoting ScottB (Reply 23): Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 4):
One daily roundtrip flight between Denver and Akron-Canton
One daily roundtrip flight between Denver and Dayton
Two shots at Frontier.
The bigger shot at Frontier is:
Yeah that's huge. I will await the F9 crowd to say it is somehow an attack of UA and will have no effect on F9.
25 mariner: I assumed that is just a - very mild - retaliation for Frontier's MCI-LAS and MCI-MCO. If it is a retaliation at all - it's not exactly a Delta attac
26 MaverickM11: Looks like everything could have been flowed over ATL. In any case, the bigger problem is fares are atrocious. STL/CHI to SJU start as low as $277 ro
27 atrude777: While not confirmed, the obvious next step is that WN/FL will need to announce ATL-SNA to get FL Planes into SNA to do the Mexico flying should that g
28 Airport: Out of curiousity, is there a PDF showing the changes like they used to have? If so, I've seemed to have trouble finding it during the last few schedu
29 CarsAir04: how about instead of just saying as always, that you don't like Frontier. Why not put this sentence in another form. Why can't it be a shot at both F
30 steex: There is a misplaced comma in the blog post - it's not BNA-SEA/STL/SAN, it's BNA-SEA and STL-SAN. BNA-STL is not a seasonal route, it runs double dai
31 atrude777: Actually not to pick on ERJ but he missread/quoted it wrong. The Blog says it correctly... "We’re also bringing back seasonal nonstop service betwe
32 steex: No, ERJ is reading that quote correctly, the improper punctuation just makes the quote false. Including a comma between "St. Louis, and San Diego" ma
33 atrude777: Oh, I guess it was common knowledge for us that we knew what he was talking about. I can see the confusion for those who don't know the WN market for
34 Drerx7: Actually 3 shots...HOU-MCI just started with Frontier E-jets.
35 iowaman: Ouch, ISP has really been getting the cuts.
36 SANFan: Let me just jump in here for a moment guys. BNA-SAN has NEVER been seasonal (as in "the route does is NOT operated at all certain times of the year")
37 atrude777: May 9th, 2010 http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...ights-in-key-markets-79415797.html Southwest has also been beefing up its service to/from St. Lo
38 smoot4208: Are the actual frequency changes in the 61 markets viewable in a pdf yet? It says 41 see increases while 20 see decreases.
39 wnflyguy: From what i'm hearing there are 6 planes that are being used for new service out of ATL but will not be announced until FEB or MAR 2012. enjoy wnfg :0
40 bigbird: Why are they still being listed as 2 separate carriers at that point in time? I thought Air Tran was supposed to disappear in April.
42 SANFan: You are correct; my data base showed "May 09" (with the year in a separate column) and I looked too quickly... Sorry 'bout that. Sounds logical to me
43 point2point: Isn't it actually 4 shots.... DEN-LGA, since F9 flies here too, along with UA?
44 atrude777: Not Yet, and this is severely lacking especially in markets that do not see WN or FL combined, and markets like STL who cannot utilize any of FL's ro
45 point2point: Hmmmmmm? Although I think that it's a big difference going from a once-weekly Saturday flight, to twice daily, isn't it?
46 atrude777: It's certainly an expansion and a difference ya, but not new to me. Depends whom you're asking I suppose. Since this route is not new to WN/FL I don'
47 point2point: Okay Nonetheless, I don't know that F9 can really do much here, and as for UA, well, two routes from DEN involve them as well, but since UA already s
48 einsteinboricua: That's what you think. If WN ever got to SJU, you can bet they'd want to turn SJU into a focus city (OK, maybe not that level, but still I'd see plen
49 CarsAir04: But yet I am fairly sure the average fare out of DEN is less than out of MDW and LAS. (I don't have have actual numbers, just from what I have seen p
50 atrude777: WN is sitting at 48 destinations for DEN. The addition of ATL, DAY, CAK, LGA will move it to 52 destinations served by DEN. MDW is at 55 now--gains OK
51 point2point: Well, WN is supposedly going to take in an extra billion dollars out of ATL, so I guess they have some more $$$$ to keep up with their DEN expansion
52 MaverickM11: That's the obstacle: B6, NK, and even FL--until their costs raise to WN levels--can undercut WN all day.
53 CarsAir04: of course to the F9 haters out there, it would be to put F9 out of business. That is the world of business, but the other part of it is to make money
54 point2point: Here's my list for DEN n/s Albuquerque, NM Amarillo, TX Atlanta, GA Austin, TX Baltimore, MD Boise, ID Boston Logan, MA Burbank, CA Chicago (Midway),
55 Cubsrule: Big picture, maybe there is a profitability problem at DEN (I happen to believe there is, but that's not my point right now). But in terms of strengt
56 PI767: I must say that the dropping of ISP-MDW suprises me. Does that leave the only west-bound option from ISP as BWI?
57 atrude777: Wow they need to update they didn't include MKE or MHT yet. Sorry! I was going off WN's city count list out of DEN. Everything else should be the sam
58 point2point: I must chime in here, maybe they'll take this and add it to DEN? The ski season is supposedly going to be good this year. That's okay, I'm sure that
59 keagkid101: I do not know if this was included in the schld changes, but PVD-PHX is ending. Is this true?
60 flyguy89: Not sure what you mean by this, both airports are among the least expensive airports to fly out of in the region with extensive service from both FL
61 Cubsrule: Compared to CVG, anything is a low fare airport.
62 flyguy89: Hahaha! touché my friend, touché. In all seriousness though, both airports have fairly extensive LCC services and (in my experience and in the expe
63 Cubsrule: My point was simply that DAY and CAK aren't MKE or DEN with fares in about every decent-sized market decimated by absurd competition. You are absolut
64 mariner: Oh, I imagine that's probably true. Mind you, if I were running Frontier - and I'm not - then I'd switch DEN-CAK to DEN-CLE. mariner
65 SurfandSnow: WOW! Very exciting stuff that offers excellent insight into the future strategy of WN/FL going forward. This was bound to happen sooner or later. WN/F
67 slcdeltarumd11: WN keeps flying to some pretty amazing cities out of DEN and isn't rolling any down. They seem driven and are making some amazing routes flying. Talk
68 freakyrat: Quoting Mariner "Oh, I imagine that's probably true. Mind you, if I were running Frontier - and I'm not - then I'd switch DEN-CAK to DEN-CLE. " But Fr
69 point2point: Why? F9 has been here for several years now and do very well, from all appearances at both CAK and DAY, and probably especially CAK, where F9 has no
70 chrisair: Amarillo, Kansas City, Tulsa and (soon to be) Akron, aren't what I'd call "amazing cities." No offense to anyone living there.
71 ouboy79: All depends on the economics of being able to make the service grant work. Personally I think it is better spent on United to IAD, but that is just m
72 slcdeltarumd11: LOL amazing as in its amazing that WN can make these cities work from Denver so quickly. They are so recent to DEN i find it trully amazing they are
73 zippyjet: These flights have been around for several years during the busy summer travel season. BWI-SFO started this past summer. All these flights were alway
74 QANTAS747-438: SNA-SJD = 877mi, 2 hrs SAT-SJD = 824mi, 2 hrs SNA-MEX = 1517mi, 3.5hrs SAT-MEX = 696mi = 2 hrs No, these flights will be done using FL metal on -700s
75 QANTAS747-438: I really wonder if that reason alone is why SNA got the SJD/MEX service and not LAX? T1 at LAX can easily create a Customs area, but knowing how slow
76 2travel2know2: I believe the US - Mexico Aviation agreement states that only 2 airlines from each country are to serve airport pairs between the countries. So from
77 bobnwa: Since you have looked at the stat, is DEN among the top 5 airports for load factor. I know you said probably, but what are the top five?
78 flyinryan99: This is just my two cents, but I think F9 can keep their advantages at both CAK and DAY. The schedules that WN/FL have right now are midday flights o
79 atrude777: The bigger reason DAL will never see international routes is because of the Wright Amendment. So by that default HOU will probably get the new routes
80 enilria: I'm very saddened to see WN behaving in such a predatory and retaliatory manner. They used to stick to their knitting and not get caught up in such t
81 enilria: Why aren't we talking about the station closures? Is that in another thread? Southwest Airlines Co.’s AirTran unit will cease flying to five airport
82 atrude777: Yes Sir, big topic here... FL To Close Certain Stations In 2012 (by Xcltflyboy Nov 11 2011 in Civil Aviation) Alex
83 enilria: Ahh, I probably missed it because I consider them WN at this point.
84 WNCrew: I read that the original target date was September 12th of this year to announce the codeshare release... but clearly that didn't happen. I don't see
85 GSPSPOT: Haven't noticed any new destinations or added frequencies for GSP by looking ahead on WN's website. If WN is doing as well here as we're being told, I
86 ERJ170: I would look at it as a blessing. You did not get a negative number. In this day and time, that's completely worth celebrating. Have a Plus is icing.
87 WWTRAVELER99: I agree with you that the first class seating may help. But I am still not sure why many people call Southwest "cattle car boarding". Have you flown
88 slcdeltarumd11: There is an incentive by SNA to start international service. SJD will do well with vacationers in so cal it has been a popular destination and MEX ca
89 gizmonc: From USA TODAY Nov 14, 2011: "And aside from the new Mexico cities, Orange County also will be a new destination for AirTran, which continues to fly s
90 atrude777: I had to check to see which route you're referring to and the two quotes you mentioned are referring to FLL-SJU. Why is it predatory when WN entered
91 yellowtail: Do not discount Mexico and Central American traffic to SAT...it is decent ....and SAT would make a nice, centrally located hub for WN expansion south
92 atrude777: I guess I was reffering to WN's system and strategy as International Flights are not allowed at DAL (WN's 2nd Strongest Base for Texas), and no FIS a
93 enilria: Well, virtually all the "new" domestic routes in the announcement are directed at harassing competitors. There are 4 F9 routes and 1 NK route. I thin
94 MLI717fan: These new routes are interesting but it's sad to see the old FL being dismantled at this rate. Could we end up with FL being the international compon
95 2travel2know2: Could WN try to get HOU its FIS back? It had one before IAH was opened. Pretty sure that would be a major issue with Houston Airports (who run both I
96 Cubsrule: I have a vague recollection - maybe an SAT local can help us - that there was some money on the table for SAT-MEX after MX dropped it. Why? The Chica
97 point2point: Okay, I was stuck at the computer for several hours a few weeks ago, and bored. I found info here http://www.transtats.bts.gov/Data_Elements.aspx?Dat
98 2travel2know2: Each city treats its airport in a different manner, if Chicago gave MDW a FIS it doesn't mean Houston's could gave HOU its back. It's quite interesti
99 Cubsrule: 3 gates. It can probably handle a couple of 737s an hour. No - which is why I'm looking for specific evidence about Houston.
100 enilria: I'll repeat my oft-repeated thoughts on this merger and most have not changed since it was announced... 1) It is bad for the consumer, airports, fare
101 FlyPNS1: Because they ARE a limited incumbent in terms of slot holding at DCA/LGA...it's a fact. Again, based solely on slot holdings. If UA only had 5 flight
102 brons2: AUS has FIS at the main terminal? I know they have it at the "south terminal" where Viva Aerobus used to operate, but I can't imagine WN operating fr
103 ScottB: Yes, there are a couple of gates at the east end of the terminal. You can see the FIS on the airport's baggage claim level map.
104 WWTRAVELER99: I think that is what will happen. Maybe not totally though. I see FL side adding even more international prior to complete intergration. One thing I
105 sspontak: Looks like LGA is adding (LGA-DEN) and ISP is getting cut (ISP-MDW). Hopefully WN eventually adds ISP-ATL as part of the FL integration. This might b
106 shadez: JetBlue has responded to the FLL-SJU route by expanding its service on the route to 6x daily next summer.
107 FutureUScapt: Actually, they are not. Limited incumbents are carriers with 20 or fewer slots (i.e. 10 or fewer departures), of which FL/WN does not qualify for at
108 Cubsrule: Correct, but WN has - to this point - been a limited incumbent both places (and, FWIW, still is until SOC).
109 ScottB: Yes -- the same reason why Delta & US Airways chose to exclude Southwest from their hand-chosen slot divestitures. That should make for some inte
110 F9Fan: One advantage that F9 will have, at least in the short run until the conversion to full WN, on the DEN-CAK route is that FL will only fly as O&D
111 WWTRAVELER99: There will be a codeshare in place prior to the start of this route. Codeshare is expected to start in Feb. WW
112 GSPSPOT: Um (please don't flame me!!) ... What does FIS stand for?
113 gizmonc: FIS= Federal Inspection Station. Basicallly any airport that is entry point for inbound international flights is required to have access to FIS. After
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