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LH Moves Some Flights From DME To VKO  
User currently offlinemacc From Austria, joined Nov 2004, 1037 posts, RR: 3
Posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5791 times:

According to Austrian newspaper derStandard:
http://derstandard.at/1319182709371/...lumzug-entfacht-Airport-Wettstreit


from the article:
LH plans to move 3 flights per week (!) from DME to VKO. Its said those flights are connecting Berlin and Frankfurt. Those flights are seen as establishing new connections rather than moving from one to another airport. But as the quality at DME is deteriorating, Russian business insider speculate that LH could move their whole operation to VKO one day.


I dont know the accuracy of the article, but what in the world makes sense to have only 3 flights in a week at a different airport??? Probably a game on behalf of LH to get better conditions at DME?


I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineju068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2590 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5671 times:
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Quoting macc (Thread starter):
But as the quality at DME is deteriorating, Russian business insider speculate that LH could move their whole operation to VKO one day.

Could anyone tell me what is happening at DME? I thought that the airport was doing fine...

I know SVO is a SkyTeam fortress but wouldn't it make more sense to move some flights there? I mean, isn't Vnukovo a smaller airport with worse infrastructure (when compared to the other two airports)?


User currently onlineTUGMASTER From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Jul 2004, 690 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5631 times:

..... DME has become so so overcrowded...

VKO have put in a new terminal + fast train into the city centre....


Infact, VKO could be the new DME....!!!!!


User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4395 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5551 times:

I'm sure something is wrong in the translation and there are three daily flights (or 5-6 times a week) , one to Berlin and two to FRA, to be added.

User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2499 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5516 times:

Well, we might see SVO for Sky, DME for OW and VKO for Star.


Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineairevents From Germany, joined Jan 2002, 879 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4937 times:

Maybe a closer relationship with UT Air? The airline has been growing so fast, has a largely western fleet now and is one of two airlines that I could see as potential partner for Star Alliance in Russia. Because of its much better domestic network, I would think UT Air to be the more logical partner and their main Moscow hub is in Vnukovo. Wait and see I guess...


www.airevents.com
User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4662 times:

I was wondering too about this move when LH announced its intentions for the future BER airport, including connections to a 'new' destination, VKO. I checked it out on wikipedia, and the article mentions that the airport is about half an hour of flighttime closer to central Europe than the other two airports, giving LH and the likes a fuel advantage.
Now when I think back that the flights to VKO were out of BER, then that really is a good business model, because BER isn't too high-yielding anyways, thus pax will not be in need of the comforts that DME or SVO can offer. What surprises me is that they are going to move FRA flights as well.

In this light, I support the view which macc proposes until LH can convince me that VKO actually is the better choice to MOW:

Quoting macc (Thread starter):
Probably a game on behalf of LH to get better conditions at DME?



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineairevents From Germany, joined Jan 2002, 879 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4389 times:

Well Vnukovo just opened a brandnew (really nice) terminal, so comfortwise they should be able to offer the same level as DME. Quick train ride into town (and much faster by car then from DME), so I don´t really see the advantage of DME any more...


www.airevents.com
User currently offlinesofianec From Germany, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 239 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4274 times:

Oh yes - the new terminal at Vnukovo is awesome and really a tremendous upgrade. The move may also be dictated by the recent decision to move most non SkyTeam airlines out of Sheremetyevo into Vnukovo. DME is very congested as it has limited terminal space.

"State airline Aeroflot is set to rule the roost at state owned airport Sheremetyevo, after complaining to Prime Minister Putin that other airlines were cramping its style.

From summer 2012, only Aeroflot and other members of Sky Team alliance will be able to use the airport and all others, amounting to 25 percent of the airport’s current traffic, will be shipped out to fellow state owned airport Vnukovo, after the merger of Sheremetyevo and Vnukovo takes place."

http://themoscownews.com/business/20111013/189118520.html

LH move into VKO with its state-of-the-art terminal is a smart one as 1/ shorter flying times 2/ new spacious facilities among the benefits of such a move.



A350WARP
User currently offlinedazeflight From Germany, joined Jun 1999, 580 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4256 times:

Well, the 5 minutes the train saves are offset by the fact it's only going hourly, so I don't see any advantage there. Anyway, Moscow gets busier and busier, and considering the size of the site, I see a point in serving several airports. This is done in London and Paris as well.

Apart from that, the article is badly researched as it's not only 3 new daily flights as has been stated above, but two of them are in fact moved from DME, contrary to what the article claims. One additional daily to Berlin is switched from the Germanwings brand to LH, making it 4 dailys into VKO. Details from airlineroute.net:

Berlin Brandenburg – Vnukovo Service Increases from 1 to 2 Daily. Berlin Tegel – Moscow Domodedovo will operate until 02JUN12
LH3016 BER0850 – 1320VKO 320 x7
LH3018 BER1530 – 2000VKO 320 x6

LH3017 VKO1410 – 1450BER 320 x7
LH3019 VKO2050 – 2130BER 320 x6

Frankfurt – Moscow Vnukovo NEW 2 Daily service, in addition to existing 4 Daily service to Moscow Domodedovo (Reduce from 5 Daily)
LH1470 FRA1325 – 1825VKO 32S D
LH1472 FRA2000 – 0100+1VKO 320 6
LH1472 FRA2015 – 0115+1VKO 320 x6

LH1473 VKO0920 – 1030FRA 320 D
LH1471 VKO1910 – 2020FRA 319 6
LH1471 VKO1920 – 2030FRA 320 x6

@ sofianec: some russian members of this forum have disputed the validity of the news that SVO is going to be Skyteam only anytime soon. Seems to have been exaggerated in the media.

[Edited 2011-11-15 03:01:52]

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15735 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3956 times:

Looking at the Moscow airport situation from afar, it's a bit surprising that VKO doesn't see more use now. Seems that VKO may be seeing more traffic in the future.


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineluckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3884 times:

Quoting sofianec (Reply 8):

Not to be persnickety, but Vnukovo is owned by The City of Moscow, not the State.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):

Looking at the Moscow airport situation from afar, it's a bit surprising that VKO doesn't see more use now. Seems that VKO may be seeing more traffic in the future.
The previous terminal was microscopic and not suited to large operations.


User currently offlinedazeflight From Germany, joined Jun 1999, 580 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3854 times:

Quoting luckyone (Reply 11):
Not to be persnickety, but Vnukovo is owned by The City of Moscow, not the State.

That used to be the case. VKO and SVO are getting merged into one single company owned by the state, who is planning to privatize this within the next years. The Moscow government has already started to transfer the shares to the Federal Government, this should be finished by now, meaning that both VKO and SVO are officially state-owned.

[Edited 2011-11-15 10:29:56]

User currently offlineluckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2168 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3821 times:

Ahhh! I wasn't aware of that. Thanks!

User currently offlineSevernaya From Russia, joined Jan 2009, 1403 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3626 times:

Quoting airevents (Reply 7):
so I don´t really see the advantage of DME any more...

Actually DME is now the worst after SVO and VKO have been renovated.

Quoting sofianec (Reply 8):
The move may also be dictated by the recent decision to move most non SkyTeam airlines out of Sheremetyevo into Vnukovo.

There has not been taken such decision. The article you quote is of very low quality and this rumour has its origin in the Russia-EU Aviation summit not long ago. No airline is forced out of SVO. Plus this is off-topic as we're discussing LH, that does operate (at least until now) only at DME.

Quoting Semaex (Reply 6):
and the article mentions that the airport is about half an hour of flighttime closer to central Europe than the other two airports

Really? Half an hour flight time closer? The airports are roughly 40 kilometers from each other.



Всяк глядит, да не всяк видит.
User currently offlinesofianec From Germany, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 239 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3437 times:

Quoting Severnaya (Reply 14):
There has not been taken such decision. The article you quote is of very low quality and this rumour has its origin in the Russia-EU Aviation summit not long ago. No airline is forced out of SVO. Plus this is off-topic as we're discussing LH, that does operate (at least until now) only at DME.

Certainly is not Off-topic! While an official decision hasn't been made shuffles are in the making as (at least that part is true) SVO will reach its capacity soon and with SVO+VKO becoming one company shuffles are to be expected.

Media sources are what we have - fluff or not. I did however stipulate that top 2 reasons for LH new forage into VKO are to do with VKO's new "WOW" terminal and improved facilities. Many people are complaining about DME being a victim of its own success. The expansion programme for DME (new terminal + runway relocation) is a GO but will take time to get there and will certainly create some hassles during construction.

LH just being smart there taking advantage of better facilities. Maybe they got a great deal to start services to VKO.

---



A350WARP
User currently offlineju068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2590 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3262 times:
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Quoting airevents (Reply 7):
Well Vnukovo just opened a brandnew (really nice) terminal, so comfortwise they should be able to offer the same level as DME. Quick train ride into town (and much faster by car then from DME), so I don´t really see the advantage of DME any more...

Does DME have a train link to the city? Last time I checked there were plans to make one...

Quoting sofianec (Reply 8):

From summer 2012, only Aeroflot and other members of Sky Team alliance will be able to use the airport and all others, amounting to 25 percent of the airport’s current traffic, will be shipped out to fellow state owned airport Vnukovo, after the merger of Sheremetyevo and Vnukovo takes place."

Well, maybe SkyTeam and ''friendly'' airlines. I am sure that they are not going to kick Jat Airways out just because it's not ST. It codeshares with SU and feeds its Asian and CIS market.

Then again I do not see what would be a problem if SVO does become a SkyTeam fortress. FRA is not that different, the vast majority of airlines flying there are Lufthansa and its buddies.


User currently offlineTreg From Estonia, joined Oct 2001, 537 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3196 times:

Quoting TUGMASTER (Reply 2):
VKO have put in a new terminal + fast train into the city centre....

It is a train connection. Not a fast one (in many cities even the trams are faster). And these Moscow airport trains are like a joke: departing once an hour. Sometimes there is even a two hour gap. I almost missed my flight because it took an eternity to get from VKO to SVO (by train!)

But OK, compared to taxis and Moscow traffic, the trains are a great relief!  


User currently offlinedazeflight From Germany, joined Jun 1999, 580 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3142 times:

Quoting ju068 (Reply 16):

Does DME have a train link to the city? Last time I checked there were plans to make one...

The train is up and running since 2004.

Quoting ju068 (Reply 16):
And these Moscow airport trains are like a joke: departing once an hour.

Which is only true for VKO. SVO and DME are connected to the Metro ring every 30 minutes with realiable trains that go on the minute. They have been created to connect the airports to the city so, of course, an airport-to-airport connection will most likely be faster with a taxi.


User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 2928 times:

Quoting ju068 (Reply 16):
Then again I do not see what would be a problem if SVO does become a SkyTeam fortress. FRA is not that different, the vast majority of airlines flying there are Lufthansa and its buddies.

Yet it's neither local nor national government who makes sure that LH has the upper hand on the apron. It's the airline itself. True, they have their hand in politics as well, but which company doesn't.. ?



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlinealex572 From Russia, joined Jul 2010, 15 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2808 times:

LH try for VKO definitely has no relation with rumoured relocation of different alliances among SVO and VKO. I strongly doubt any Star members currently operating to DME/SVO would follow them, at least in the nearest. My guess is LH wishes firstly to engage closer cooperation with UTair who seems to remain the sole candidate for strategic cooperation in Russia after very few success with Transaero who apparently refused to change their business model and adjust it for immediate LH needs in feeding their flights to Germany. And secondly LH might wish to take advantage of being the most wanted airline in the airport after losing this status in overcrowded DME.

It would be interesting to monitor their positioning in VKO. A lot of pro et contra could be named and some risk still left behind, mainly related to uncertainty both with UTair and VKO+SVO future.


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