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DL Expands @ JFK, DL Ups LAX To 8 Daily, SFO To 6  
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 966 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16662 times:
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Delta announces its latest expansion at JFK. With the latest expansion, it will bring the total daily peak period departures to LAX to 8 and SFO to 6.

I assume Delta will be the largest carrier on the very important NYC-L.A market???


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Delta-...test-prnews-935744727.html?x=0&l=1

[Edited 2011-11-14 06:46:02]

88 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5955 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16603 times:

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
I assume Delta will be the largest carrier on the very important NYC-L.A market???

Second place behind AA...which has 9 daily flights between JFK-LAX.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4261 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16560 times:

Any idea what equipment this will be? I'm assuming it will be B757 to LAX and SFO across all flights.


None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5955 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16498 times:

Quoting richierich (Reply 2):
Any idea what equipment this will be? I'm assuming it will be B757 to LAX and SFO across all flights.

The new flights are listed as being 757 aircraft...assuming that they don't downgrade any of the current flights they should all be 757.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16495 times:

So all 757's and lie flats in F, would that be right?

Seems like it could be a competitive product?


User currently offlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5692 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16480 times:

Quoting richierich (Reply 2):
Any idea what equipment this will be? I'm assuming it will be B757 to LAX and SFO across all flights.

According to this link yep!

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=18&item=161

The link above mentions the aircraft assigned to the routes announced in the link above.

Very exciting to see expansion by Delta. Summer of 2012 will be an exciting time for the airlines combined!

Good Luck to Delta!

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5955 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16471 times:

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 4):
So all 757's and lie flats in F, would that be right?

DLs 752s have recliners in J....



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 16355 times:

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
I assume Delta will be the largest carrier on the very important NYC-L.A market???

Not even close, UA is the largest carrier in the Trans-Con market from NY to California:

EWR-LAX 8x daily
JFK-LAX 6 daily
JFK-SFO 7 daily
EWR-SFO 8 daily



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinemiaami From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 16250 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 1):
Second place behind AA...which has 9 daily flights between JFK-LAX.

small correction. AA has 10 nonstops JFK-LAX - all 767-200 - 3 class aircraft.

[Edited 2011-11-14 07:24:28]

User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2412 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 16180 times:

Presently, from EWR/JFK to the LA Basin, nonstop carriers with market share:

from KJFK non-stop to KLAX American Airlines 14%
from KJFK non-stop to KLAX Delta Air Lines 9%
from KJFK non-stop to KLAX United Air Lines 8%
from KEWR non-stop to KLAX Continental Air Lines (United) 7%
from KJFK non-stop to KLAX Virgin America 5%
from KJFK non-stop to KLGB JetBlue Airways 3%
from KEWR non-stop to KSNA Continental Air Lines (United) 3%
from KJFK non-stop to KBUR JetBlue Airways 3%
from KJFK non-stop to KLAX JetBlue Airways 3%
from KEWR non-stop to KLAX American Airlines 2%

from KLAX non-stop to KJFK American Airlines 14%
from KLAX non-stop to KJFK Delta Air Lines 9%
from KLAX non-stop to KEWR Continental Air Lines (United) 8%
from KLAX non-stop to KJFK United Air Lines 8%
from KLAX non-stop to KJFK Virgin America 5%
from KSNA non-stop to KEWR Continental Air Lines (United) 3%
from KLGB non-stop to KJFK JetBlue Airways 3%
from KBUR non-stop to KJFK JetBlue Airways 3%
from KLAX non-stop to KJFK JetBlue Airways 3%
from KLAX non-stop to KEWR American Airlines 2%


User currently onlineavi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 16153 times:
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Where are they getting these aircraft from? Are they coming from the dehubbing of Memphis?


avi8
User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1594 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 16055 times:

Quoting avi8 (Reply 10):
Where are they getting these aircraft from? Are they coming from the dehubbing of Memphis?

No. International cutbacks. These aircraft are the international 757-200s with their business elite product. They will still be based out of JFK were they can continue their international duties but obviously they have increased slack in the fleet which allows them to operate more domestic transcon premium service with them.


User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 966 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 15509 times:
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Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
Not even close, UA is the largest carrier in the Trans-Con market from NY to California:

EWR-LAX 8x daily
JFK-LAX 6 daily
JFK-SFO 7 daily
EWR-SFO 8 daily

Correct, I forgot UA/CO count as one

Quoting richierich (Reply 2):
Any idea what equipment this will be? I'm assuming it will be B757 to LAX and SFO across all flights.

I looked at another site, they show all 757s


User currently offlineCMB320 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 413 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 15185 times:

We offer an extremely competitive product on our transcons utilizing intl 757's.

User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 15126 times:

Quoting avi8 (Reply 10):

Where are they getting these aircraft from? Are they coming from the dehubbing of Memphis?

Good question. I dont think these planes fly thru MEM though.


User currently offlinealitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4749 posts, RR: 44
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 14931 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 14):
Good question. I dont think these planes fly thru MEM though.

International pull-downs as others have said.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2865 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 14593 times:

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
Delta announces its latest expansion at JFK.

To me, the most interesting stuff here is that which nobody is talking about: everything *other* than additional daily service to SFO and LAX!

For one, we will get more Caribbean service. I'm not sure what the deal is with LGA-NAS, it would seem like a great niche route (after all it has been tried by AA, DL, and US in recent years) but has only have sporadic, inconsistent service. With DL's LGA hub about to come online, let's see if they can stick with it this time around. As for JFK-SJU, it appears DL currently just has a pithy daily frequency on that ever-popular route. I imagine ratcheting up the frequency to 3x daily will allow DL to compete much more effectively. Then there's the JFK-Dominican Republic routes, a perfect way to utilize planes that would probably just be sitting idle overnight otherwise. These move could heat up competition with B6, though, which leads me to my next point...

Several markets getting new (ok, most or perhaps all are actually being resumed) service from JFK. While all five of the "new" routes will primarily just be there as feed for the transatlantic network, this will include the only nonstop DL services from Austin and Milwaukee to New York. In fact, this will be the ONLY nonstop link from MKE to JFK at all (and also the only nonstop between MCI and JFK). While DL will have the pair of heartland routes to itself, the three leisure routes will pit them against B6, who probably won't be happy by this move...

Quoting g500 (Thread starter):
With the latest expansion, it will bring the total daily peak period departures to LAX to 8 and SFO to 6.

I assume Delta will be the largest carrier on the very important NYC-L.A market???

Once the UA/CO merger is complete, UA will be by far the largest carrier on that segment as it will offer full schedules between LAX and both JFK and EWR. AA comes next, with all their widebody service on JFK-LAX, plus the daily EWR-LAX service. DL will probably still come in third place, which still leaves them way ahead of VX (unable to grow due to a lack of additional JFK slots) and B6 (still a small player on the big route, I think the lack of F hurts them).



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4910 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 14431 times:
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Quoting avi8 (Reply 10):
Where are they getting these aircraft from?

The 752s look like they are coming off of JFK-ARN and JFK-CPH; both ARN and CPH are being upgauged to 763ERs for summer 2012. There was slack in the 763ER fleet this past summer, so this shouldn't be a problem.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7908 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 14169 times:

For your viewing pleasure:

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=c%3Ablu...2C+jfk-sfo%2C+jfk-lax&MS=wls&DU=mi

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=c:blue%0d%0alga-nas%0d%0ac:red%0d%0ajfk-sti,+jfk-sdq,+jfk-sju,+jfk-aus,+jfk-jax,+jfk-mci,+jfk-msy,+jfk-mke,+jfk-sfo,+jfk-lax&MS=wls&MR=300&MX=720x360&PM=*

Great Circle Mapper

[Edited 2011-11-14 11:46:51]


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13981 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 18):
For your viewing pleasure:

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=c%3Ablu...DU=mi

Very nice, though you got the wrong Santiago. You want STI, not SCL.


User currently offlinerunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2194 posts, RR: 35
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13948 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 18):
For your viewing pleasure:

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=c%3Ablu...DU=mi

Wrong Santiago, STI not SCL...


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7908 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13890 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 19):
Very nice, though you got the wrong Santiago. You want STI, not SCL.
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 19):
Wrong Santiago, STI not SCL...

Lol my bad. Fixed.



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13835 times:

I wonder if delta got some additional contracts or any reason to push for more seats? Deltas average fares are not so great on these routes compared to competitors for quite some time unless this has changed? AA particularly and then UA have most of the large contracts on these routes i wonder what deltas logic is here on putting more seats in? Anyone have the latest load factors and average fares for these routes for NYC?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
Not even close, UA is the largest carrier in the Trans-Con market from NY to California:

EWR-LAX 8x daily
JFK-LAX 6 daily
JFK-SFO 7 daily
EWR-SFO 8 daily

UA has become a huge player.


User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1438 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 13602 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 22):
UA has become a huge player.

Correct. Due to a merger.
I just think AA and DL are making sure UA has reached its peak at JFK. If it's up to them, they will force UA to cut JFK service over time. I think we are just seeing the first salvo indicating DL means business.
UA will hold on, for now. Over time, during tougher times, they may very well see their JFK-West Coast share significantly erode where it won't make sense to keep it going.

Previous threads discussions regarding DL's "split hub" status at JFK/LGA downplays the fact that DL will actually take a huge bite out of the general premium NYC O/D market share. The "split" part of it is really not that big of an obstacle. I believe, in this example, that a full capacity DL at JFK and LGA (once deal is settled and implemented) will actually have an indirect effect on UA's JFK-LAX performance.

Time will tell.



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlineBCEaglesCO757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 242 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13479 times:

Quoting peanuts (Reply 23):
Correct. Due to a merger.
I just think AA and DL are making sure UA has reached its peak at JFK. If it's up to them, they will force UA to cut JFK service over time. I think we are just seeing the first salvo indicating DL means business.
UA will hold on, for now. Over time, during tougher times, they may very well see their JFK-West Coast share significantly erode where it won't make sense to keep it going.

Merger or not in the end,bottom line UA is a huge player. Thats all that counts.

Not to mention we have hubs at LAX and SFO to countinually feed the route. Plus we EWR is significantly strong in the NYC market. We do carry more passangers out of EWR than all the other carriers at EWR,JFK,and LGA combined. Not sure why we'll just be hanging on.......


Because judging from our last two quarterly performances we're 'just holding on' for now.  

We mean business too.

If I can make a correction, I'm speaking of the NYC-LAX/SFO market as a whole. We're not going anywhere.

[Edited 2011-11-14 12:27:07]

25 jetlanta : It has changed. And this service expansion is intended to ensure those trends continue.
26 PIEAvantiP180 : This is good news for DL. 5 more domestic routes to feed the ever growing number of international destinations. Hopefully this will make all those int
27 HVNandrew : Agreed. The LAX and SFO additions are a nice add and solidify DL's presence in those markets, but the most interesting addition to me is the SJU serv
28 DeltaMD90 : I'd argue that JFK and LGA are completely separate operations for DL, and that comparing B6 JFK and DL JFK is apples to oranges. Even DL LGA and B6 J
29 mke717spotter : DL flew JFK-MKE with the CRJ for a short time a few years ago before discontinuing it, hopefully it does better this time around with the CR9.
30 LAXtoATL : I wouldn't say completely separate. They will be complementary operations and any changes at one or the other will be done keeping the other mind. Ma
31 jfklganyc : "We do carry more passangers out of EWR than all the other carriers at EWR,JFK,and LGA combined. Not sure why we'll just be hanging on......." What no
32 luv2fly : How many times has DL beefed up either NYC or LAX only to quickly draw it back down.
33 PIEAvantiP180 : Very true for LAX but not for NYC. Yes they have had some ups and downs at JFK but overall its been a steady climb for DL in NYC over the last decade
34 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : LAX? Quite a few. But DL's NYC operation is going extremely well. I remember reading about the initial initial expansion back in high school, 2005 I t
35 flyguy1 : Interesting that DL is picking up JFK-AUS, as AA is dropping that route.
36 DeltAirlines : Considering that Delta has done nothing but grown the NYC TransCon BusinessElite services, I'm guessing these are doing rather well for them. If you'
37 commavia : AA is not, at least as of now, dropping it. It was suspending seasonally and is scheduled to return in April.
38 flyguy1 : Did not know that, thanks.
39 davescj : One thing to note -- the JFK to MKE is not a "new" route. DL had this route prior to the current recession. I think the flight to Austin is interestin
40 DeltaMD90 : DL should be growing into AA's territory all they can while they are weak IMO. AA will rise again and be a very fierce, formidable competitor so it w
41 Indio66 : I have been flying DL more and more; they have a good product out to Cali, Phx and the like. These flights have been very full and tough to upgrade o
42 nycdave : United's ps service at JFK is one of their most profitable domestically, and as the only *A carrier flying domestic transcon from JFK, they have *A fl
43 PIEAvantiP180 : Does anybody know exactly how many slots DL holds at JFK? Over the summer I believe I counted 198 peak day flights, but I've heard that their slot hol
44 SESGDL : People aren't informed about how large DL has become in the New York area. DL is now the largest airline at both JFK and LGA, and after the slot swap
45 HVNandrew : I don't know what the actual numbers are, but my guess is that if they do in fact have more slots at JFK than they are using, those dormant slots are
46 PIEAvantiP180 : If DL does get enough market share and enough corporate contracts in the NYC, is there the possibility of them starting new long haul flights to Asia
47 SESGDL : It's inevitable that DL introduce more JFK service to Asia, considering there is so much economic growth in the region. Right now, DL's Asia focus ha
48 Post contains images CODC10 : Hopefully I'm not one of those. I think I've always been complimentary of DL where deserved... and have the MQMs to prove it!
49 laca773 : I'm surprised they would operate JFK-AUS as a seasonal route. This seems strange. I wish DL the best of luck with these new routes from NY. One quest
50 STT757 : For DL not very good, they weren't successful competiting on the JFK-BOM route, and besides that with what aircraft would they launch these routes? T
51 LAXtoATL : Delta has quite a few 77Ls and 744s that are underutilized. One thing Delta is not short of with their current network and fleet are long haul aircra
52 jfklganyc : "What the CO/UA merger has done has given the combined carrier tremendous leverage in negotiating corporate contracts. They are the largest carrier in
53 STT757 : Quite a few? They have less than 20 777s in total, and for long haul international routes like NY-Hong Kong each route requires three aircraft. To la
54 BCEaglesCO757 : Not trying to Be. Our eggs are well spread out in SFO,LAX,ORD,IAH,.....you get the picture. I meant to say AA,DL,US,B6 combined. That is not nonsense
55 MaverickM11 : Most of this announcement has been done before, and judging from the exposure to B6 in a lot of the markets, will go away and perhaps come back again
56 klwright69 : DL adding a single SJU flight is not terribly impressive. Even in the off season CO is down to 1x daily on EWR-SJU.
57 slcpdxatl : They are adding 2 SJU flights, for a total of 3
58 b727fa : There's so much "precious metal" up front it's crazy! We could DOUBLE the BE cabin on those planes and still not have enough seats for purchase/upgra
59 LAXtoATL : Pay attention to what I said. I said they had quite a few UNDERUTILIZED. I know that Delta has a small fleet of 77Ls, 10 be exact. Now go back and ch
60 Azul320 : JetBlue only operates AUS - JFK 2x daily with E90s, the 3rd flight isn't coming back in 2012. With only 200 Seats per day, there's definitely room fo
61 CODC10 : You're just trying to stir the pot. Incidentally, EWR remains the airline's most important hub and IAH the largest. More nonsense. If you had a clue
62 panamair : DTW-HKG is the other one that is ideally operated with a 77L though they have subbed a 77E on it occasionally.... Right now, based on the schedules l
63 klkla : Maybe that's what they should do (al la United PS). I flew this route a year ago when the Biz Elite product was fairly new and had no problem upgradi
64 jfklganyc : "Incidentally, EWR remains the airline's most important hub and IAH the largest." Just curious how you know EWR is the airline's most important hub?
65 STT757 : Again my point is that a handful of underutilized 777s and 747s is not going to add up to much when it comes to long haul Asian routes, one route suc
66 LAXtoATL : First off, it doesn't take 3 aircraft to operate a route such as JFK-HKG. It takes 2 and half. But even if we use 3 dedicated aircraft per route, DL
67 STT757 : I forgot DL even served HND.[Edited 2011-11-15 18:43:55]
68 DeltaMD90 : DL has done this before. Just announced a route and pulled a 777 out of their *** and people were asking where it came from. It was under-utilization,
69 jfklganyc : "You misinterpreted what he was saying, what he was saying is that UA handles more passengers at EWR than DL or AA or B6 handle at EWR, JFK and LGA co
70 panamair : Well, looks like Delta giiveth and Delta taketh away....the continued softness of the Euro and US economies means DL will be doing more chop-chop to t
71 CODC10 : New York is the biggest air market in the country and UA will be its largest carrier with the only full-scale hub in the region. It also generates a
72 BCEaglesCO757 : I came back and corrected what I meant to say : Thank you STT757 for picking that up the first time around.
73 Post contains images SurfandSnow : No real surprises here. All of the JFK routes are marginal ones where oneworld competitors have a distinct advantage over DL. AA operates the JFK-MAN
74 DeltaMD90 : DL has been very smart with their drawbacks IMO. A few years ago, you'd see DL operate a ton of routes at a loss. Now, when the market goes down and a
75 NYCAdvantage : I agree with the statement, But you have to consider other reasons too, there so many intangibles going around EWR, Could you imagine if in just a co
76 FSDan : I'm not surprised to see the extra JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO flights. With the LGA hub coming online DL's going to have quite a few more FFs to serve and I'
77 STT757 : We went over this in the thread when the JFK project was announced, DL will actually lose a couple gates when all is said and doen at JFK. The expans
78 panamair : Filling the flights was never a problem with DL; it's filling the flights profitably. And it is not a given that AA or oneworld partners are filling
79 jfklganyc : "New York is the biggest air market in the country and UA will be its largest carrier with the only full-scale hub in the region. It also generates a
80 PIEAvantiP180 : Im not sure how well developed next summer schedule is but I checked sabre and its showing that DL will have 93 domestic and international destination
81 Post contains images delta2ual : My understanding from speaking to friends at DL "in the know" is that JFK will become much more efficient once the project is done. Banks of flights
82 STT757 : For the airline industry over the past decade the most important area of growth has been international flying, especially for US carriers. The predom
83 DeltAirlines : In addition, there should be more remote parking in the T3 area than there is now for Delta at the T4 area, so they can always bus to planes as well
84 CODC10 : We can argue this point ad infinitum. You're absolutely right in that EWR is now less important to the airline to the extent that it is a smaller sha
85 STT757 : What's interesting is that in terms of # of flights the three largest UA hubs are 1. IAH, 2. ORD, 3. EWR. However in terms of mainline flying EWR is
86 PI4EVER : DL released an email to non-elite SkyMiles members that Economy Comfort will now be available on the JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO routes to purchase for $49 ea
87 FlyASAGuy2005 : ATL/DFW/CLT; IAH-EWR is a tough call. I don't know how many slots they hold but most of the ones that they do not use are for non-peak hours. There a
88 DeltAirlines : Seems light. I've taken the first ATL-MSP flight in the mornings quite a bit in the past and it wasn't uncommon to see upgrade lists in the triple di
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