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HA Starts HNL-JFK In June 2012  
User currently offlineAQ737 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 612 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 10 months 5 days ago) and read 17660 times:

http://www.hawaiianair.com/Specialof...York_Hawaii_homepage-pos1_20111115

Does anyone have a clue about whether this will be operated with 763 or 332 and what the frequency will look like? I didn't have a chance to search for a press release and couldn't find anything through even HA's own news release page.

Aq737

109 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32777 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 5 days ago) and read 17624 times:

It is a daily A330-200.


a.
User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1962 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 17469 times:

Looks to be 4983mi on great circle.

About 3 months ago, or so, I overheard a bunch of HA employees talking in LAX about "the new JFK service" as if it were old news. I find it interesting that they knew about it very far in advance. Part of their conversation was the "training" they all had to go through for it. Not sure what training would be involved, but half of the HA employees talking said that they had completed it, and the other half were indifferent in going to the training.



My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offline330lover From Belgium, joined Jul 2008, 589 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 17351 times:

And the schedules (according to Galileo):

1234567 HNL JFK 1505# 0655 HA 50 332 9.50hrs
1234567 JFK HNL 1000 1500 HA 51 332 11.00hrs



Britten Norman Islander VP-FBR on Falkland Islands. THAT'S FLYING!
User currently onlineha763 From United States of America, joined Jan 2003, 3657 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 17307 times:
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About time. I've been waiting for this announcement for 10 years now. This probably has been the worst kept secret for over 10 years. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. HA was originally going to announce JFK service back in September 2001. The terrorist attacks happened days before the announcement and they decided not to do it and instead operated 2 charters for the families of the first responders to the WTC.

User currently offlinerjm717 From Australia, joined May 2000, 87 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 17264 times:

Interesting leak of the news.. Mark Dunkerley is scheduled to make an announcement of the new route tomorrow (WED) morning.

Good spotting AQ737

R


User currently offlinenomadic From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 17003 times:

Great news! I frequently travel to Hawaii for business and pleasure. Being able to fly from New York to Honolulu on HA will be a dream come true. Like I always tell everyone, my 2 favorite islands are O'ahu and Manhattan!

:?")


User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2482 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 16968 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 2):
About 3 months ago, or so, I overheard a bunch of HA employees talking in LAX about "the new JFK service" as if it were old news. I find it interesting that they knew about it very far in advance. Part of their conversation was the "training" they all had to go through for it. Not sure what training would be involved, but half of the HA employees talking said that they had completed it, and the other half were indifferent in going to the training.


Are all HA flight attendants certified for both B763 and A332? If the answer is no, and if it is F/As you are talking about, then they were probably only certified on the B763. Since JFK is operated by the A332, they have to get trained on it in order to be able to fly the route.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineleftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 693 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16776 times:

Quoting 330lover (Reply 3):
And the schedules (according to Galileo):

1234567 HNL JFK 1505# 0655 HA 50 332 9.50hrs
1234567 JFK HNL 1000 1500 HA 51 332 11.00hrs

Not my area of expertise, but is the return leg to HNL timed as such to allow for morning connectivity from the NYC vicinity? It seems to me that it would make more sense to keep the turn around shorter so that the same plane can be turned back at HNL for the next day's flight. Well, I am no route planner so just my personal thoughts.

Congrats to HA !


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16865 posts, RR: 51
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16758 times:

Great news, more service to Hawaii is great for their economy.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinesevenheavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 1156 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16644 times:

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 8):
Well, I am no route planner so just my personal thoughts.

There's probably no need. It will be timed to run alongside one of the shorter trips like LAX or LAS, maybe even Japan. I don't have the schedules to hand so someone else will have better detail, but the rotation could look like this for example;

HNL - JFK - HNL - LAS - HNL - JFK - HNL etc. etc.



So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
User currently offlineAkiestar From Philippines, joined May 2009, 786 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16607 times:

I wonder how well this new service bides well for connections ex-HNL. Based on existing schedules, it seems that this can be a good alternative for MNL-JFK: the times connect quite well in HNL. The reverse however is a different story: JFK-HNL arrives two hours after HNL-MNL leaves.

In any eventuality though, this seems like a very good service! 


User currently offlineHNLPointShoot From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16554 times:

Damn! That explains this cryptic tweet HA sent a couple days ago.   

(Incidentally, while no one called FUK back in July, several people did see JFK coming.)


User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1594 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 16441 times:

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 8):
It seems to me that it would make more sense to keep the turn around shorter so that the same plane can be turned back at HNL for the next day's flight.

With 21 hours of scheduled flight time, I don't think it would be possible to use the same plane even if they wanted to, that would only leave 90min for turns on each end and if that's not impossible it certainly would be very very tight and begging for routine delays!


User currently offlineJosh32121 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 16427 times:

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 11):
I wonder how well this new service bides well for connections ex-HNL. Based on existing schedules, it seems that this can be a good alternative for MNL-JFK: the times connect quite well in HNL. The reverse however is a different story: JFK-HNL arrives two hours after HNL-MNL leaves.

In any eventuality though, this seems like a very good service!

People (especially on this forum) will often select unnecessarily long flying distances or out-of-the-way connections for a cheaper fare or to accrue FF miles, but HNL is pretty far out of the way compared to other connection possibilites when traveling to Asia.

JFK-HNL-MNL%2C+JFK-NRT-MNL%2C+JFK-ICN-MNL&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=&PATH-UNITS=mi&PATH-MINIMUM=&SPEED-GROUND=&SPEED-UNITS=kts&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=" target="_blank">http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=J...STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=

But!! This does add a new airline and connection point for JFK-SYD passengers. Do the connection times work out for that routing?


User currently offlineHNLPointShoot From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 16368 times:

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 14):
But!! This does add a new airline and connection point for JFK-SYD passengers. Do the connection times work out for that routing?


It looks like it works eastbound (arrive HNL 10:10a, depart HNL 3:05p), but not westbound (arrive HNL from JFK 3:00p, SYD flight departs 11:50a.)


User currently offlineSeeTheWorld From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1325 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 16363 times:

That's awesome ... My grandparents flew JFK-HNL in the mid 1970s on a United DC-8 ... I always thought that would be such a cool flight ....

User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2997 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 16317 times:

Quoting Akiestar (Reply 11):
I wonder how well this new service bides well for connections ex-HNL.

I expect the main connections they're focusing on are the inter-island ones, and it's timed very well for those. Best to leave the NY-Asia market to others and focus on the NY-Hawaii traffic.

It will be great to see HA's A330s at JFK--I wish them much success in the market and look forward to taking the flight. Love the choice of flight number too!



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2865 posts, RR: 30
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 16199 times:

I wonder if HA would be interested in partnering with B6 to help feed this flight on the JFK end. After all, several other prominent long haul carriers do this.

Who knows..if the B6/HA relationship grew deep enough, HA might just find reason to send a 767 over to LGB every day!



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 16162 times:

About time. Next stop, London, please?

The question why there's only one non stop East Coast - Hawaii flight in place has surfaced repeatedly here in the past, and many people claimed that New Yorkers flock to Florida and avoid Hawaii because it's too far. While there's clearly merit to the theory, it still surprised me that a metropolitan area of 15+ million people plus various connections from Europe/Africa/Asia could not sustain more than 1 daily Hawaii service - especially since Hawaii could serve as a very convenient transit point for East Coast - Oceania travellers. Which begs the question: What will the on board product on this flight look like? Will it be a ''pay for your bags, IFE and not get food'' type of deal, or will HA adapt to the service levels of the foreign competition (ie QF, only NYC-HNL competition is CO/UA which only have the seats left to cut).



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4014 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 16013 times:

Great route, there will be no shortage of passengers. Making money is a whole other story. I hope it works.


Stop pop up ads
User currently offlineLAXtoATL From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1594 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 15976 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 18):
I wonder if HA would be interested in partnering with B6 to help feed this flight on the JFK end. After all, several other prominent long haul carriers do this.

Who knows..if the B6/HA relationship grew deep enough, HA might just find reason to send a 767 over to LGB every day!

HA's strategy has been to serve markets that can support their service without relying on feed from other carriers, I assume they have identified NYC as one such market.


User currently offlinejetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2982 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 15897 times:

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 21):
HA's strategy has been to serve markets that can support their service without relying on feed from other carriers, I assume they have identified NYC as one such market.

Even so, it would still make sense to have some feed from B6 considering HA has virtually no presence on the East Coast of the US. Why turn down some additional revenue?

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlinekosmonaute From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 90 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 15824 times:

Any idea which terminal HA will use at JFK? Terminal 4?

hawaiianair.com has a really good offer for flights for the first month of service......$212 one way for Y, about $800 for F.....just need to book by 20 November.

This will be a really good alternative to CO/UA. Last time I flew HNL-EWR-HNL in June, they didn't even have pillows in BusinessFirst. Pretty disgraceful.

Quoting something (Reply 19):
Which begs the question: What will the on board product on this flight look like? Will it be a ''pay for your bags, IFE and not get food'' type of deal, or will HA adapt to the service levels of the foreign competition (ie QF, only NYC-HNL competition is CO/UA which only have the seats left to cut).

It will fall into the later. Pay for your bags, yes. IFE, I don't know, I haven't flown on HA's A330 yet, and I've heard that Y passengers have to pay for seat back IFE. Pay for food, no. HA is very good at adapting their soft product to each market they serve, so I think the service will resemble that of an international flight. It would be nice if they did introduce a new hard product, specifically a new F seat, but, other than that, this will be much better than CO/UA.



Burning airlines give you so much more.
User currently offlineje89_w From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 2361 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 15792 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

Congratulations HA! Glad to see them expanding their wings to new regions, and here's to many more to come!

25 LAXtoATL : They have no presence any where they fly (except Hawaii). Thats their business model, they are niche airline and they seem content in their niche. Th
26 FoxBravo : I was wondering the same, and T4 would be my guess too. It's not very busy during the morning hours when these flights arrive/depart, it has faciliti
27 jayspilot : It will be amazing if they can find a way to make money flying a leasure route with questionable yields that distance. I know the european charter car
28 enilria : The problem has never been a lack of people wanting to go to Hawaii, the problem is yield. It's hard to imagine passengers willing to pay the same pr
29 YULWinterSkies : Maybe it has to do that it will be substantially longer than any current HA flight, involving crew rest, 3 pilots, etc...
30 steex : Could be possible, but HA flies a few routes longer than HNL-JFK today, so it doesn't seem likely.[Edited 2011-11-16 07:52:12]
31 TOMMY767 : This could be an interesting route. Not sure if it will do well. Many people in the NYC metro will opt for the caribbean or florida instead of an 11 h
32 penguinflies : I am surprised they skipped over DEN to pick up JFK.
33 IrishAyes : DEN-Hawaii is well covered by UA, and not to mention there are plenty of easy 1-stop services via West Coast gateways that can connect DEN to virtual
34 ScottB : HA packs 'em in pretty good with nearly 300 seats on the A330-200. They're just not doing crazy 9-abreast seating. Hawai'i is a very long way to go f
35 HAL : I highly doubt that was what you heard. Yes, there have been rumors about new destiniations, but nothing concrete. And there is no other training req
36 aloha73g : All HA F/As are trained on the 717, 767 and 330. It is an enhanced 2 day service training that was required of all HNL F/As prior to the begining of
37 NYC777 : This is awesome. Pending the wife's approval, we're hoping to fly out to HNL on June 23rd. $445 r/t is a great deal!
38 runway23 : HA will use Terminal 5 in JFK.
39 HAL : That's nice, but based on what info? We use DL for maintenance, and I thought we'd be at one of their terminals. HAL
40 smoot4208 : I really thought NGO would be the next HA route
41 runway23 : GDS info.
42 something : Yes obviously, but a flight on an A330 sized aircraft are a mere 200-300 people per day from a region that is home to more than 15 million people plu
43 Post contains images airbazar : I wouldn't trade Florida for Hawaii even if they paid me. However that's just my opinion and I sure have met a lot of people who like Florida. I can'
44 Post contains images B6JFKH81 : Considering the current layout of the T5 ramp is only configured to fit A320's and E190's, this comes as news to me, and B6 has made no announcement
45 777STL : Yep. Florida is vastly different from Hawaii. They are not interchangeable, in my opinion. Hawaii is paradise, Florida is swampland with beaches.
46 NYC777 : I checked on the Port Authority site and HA will indeed be using T5.
47 LAXtoATL : The issue is not comparing Florida to Hawaii, no one in their right mind would choose Florida over Hawaii if everything else is equal (ok a few peopl
48 Post contains links B6JFKH81 : Please provide a link then because I can't find it on the PANYNJ website. I checked here and HA isn't even listed: http://www.panynj.gov/airports/jfk
49 Post contains links NYC777 : You have to do a search for the specific flight through the flight schedule search http://timetables.oag.com/fe_tt//nyc/default.asp?code=nyc http://t
50 dlflynhayn : Well airfare maybe but i just got back from Aruba and yes its beautiful over there but still IMO Hawaii is way better,i might be a little biased caus
51 csavel : Well good that they picked JFK, so less overlap. If you live in LI or Brooklyn or Queens, you won't want to trek to EWR, if you live in New Jersey di
52 Post contains links and images B6JFKH81 : Veeeeery sneeky! Thank you! Now, still have to figure out where the heck they are going to put an A332 on our ramp. Maybe they'll use the last gate a
53 FoxBravo : T5...very interesting. Seems surprising, since I didn't think there were any widebody gates at T5--at least, not without taking up an adjacent gate. O
54 LAXtoATL : Last time I checked, Aruba is not part of Florida. I agree that Hawaii is nicer than Aruba, but someone who prefers more solitude and a slower pace m
55 NYC777 : No problem....maybe they'll remote park it and bus passengers back and forth!!
56 haynflyer : Just booked my flights this morning for June 2012. Dunno if I can take those days off from work but for $445, I'm willing to take that risk. I wish HA
57 dlflynhayn : My bad! but still I've been to south beach and its not cheap down there neither..
58 rampart : Put this in perspective. How many dozens of flights daily are there from NYC to the Caribbean? Compare this to one daily flight on HA, one other on U
59 Post contains links B6JFKH81 : That would probably be the marker to indicate where the leading edge of the wing is for wing inspection visibility purposes (IIRC). We have those in
60 777STL : Yes, thank you, Captain Obvious. I was merely stating I prefer Hawaii over Florida, I wasn't discussing the practicalities involved.
61 airbazar : You're not biased, however that is the perception on the East coast and a lot has to do with Florida and the Caribbean investing a LOT of money in ad
62 FoxBravo : Yep, that's right. Those triangles indicate the best windows to check the wings for ice.
63 readytotaxi : What class of cabins are they offering for this long flight? Is it a Business Class + E? Lay flat beds? E+ ?
64 contrails15 : HA was over here T5 JFK doing an audit on our flights last week. I'm sure there are a few out for the contract but I know we want this one pretty bad
65 LAXtoATL : Hawaiian offers a domestic First class style product and Economy. Both cabins are nice and generally better than their domestic competitors equivalen
66 aloha73g : HA has economy and first class for domestic flights. On international routes the first class seats are sold as business class. The first class seats
67 FoxBravo : Cool...thanks. Now that I look at it on Google Maps, I see how an A330 could fit at gate 27, with T6 out of the way. Seems like a good deal for both
68 B6JFKH81 : Do we have anything to handle ULDs or (through the rumor mill) are getting anything to support ULDs??? That's what I was thinking. This would still w
69 United_fan : That and just about everything in Hawaii is expensive.
70 washingtonian : What's B6's busiest time in the morning these days? I imagine the HA flight times make it an ok time for B6 to lose 2 gates operationally...
71 contrails15 : If I had to guess, HA would pay for the equipment. Part of the contract I would guess. Its only one flight so equipment would be minimal. Loaders, ca
72 B6JFKH81 : Taking a quick look at the Flite Trac for you, between 0530 and 0700 there are nearly 30 derpartures and arrivals (if I'm reading this damn thing rig
73 contrails15 : From 0545 to 0900 you have about 45-50 flights depending on the day. Thats outbound flights which includes uploads and turns. I brought it up to 0900
74 Post contains images HALFA : So the worst kept secret at HA has finally been revealed! I have spent several weeks biting my tongue about this route that I have long known about, b
75 washingtonian : I just looked at an aerial view of Gate 27. Once T6 is knocked down, they will have a ton of room to work with there...Is B6 planning to re-draw the p
76 contrails15 : 27 has been approved by PA for widebody service so there is a drawing out there for the gate. Like me and B6JFKH81 have been saying. The biggest prob
77 MSPNWA : Finally this long-rumored route comes true! Really interested to see how well HA does on this. My guess is that they'll do just fine. There's only one
78 csavel : Only Manhattan, Queens where JFK is located has the area code of 718. Sssshhhh don't tell the suits at HA!
79 26point2 : Does this qualify as the longest scheduled domestic flight in the world now?
80 Skyteam10001 : I don't think so. I know at least one that's longer (ORY-RUN on AF). Not saying that's the longest domestic flight in the world but to show Hawaiian'
81 Post contains images KLAXAirport : Any new aircraft on order for HA? Cheers KLAXAirport
82 crownvic : Overall, I think the economy passengers will do better than most carriers, but the 11 hours in Domestic First with 42" seat pitch, is not exactly appe
83 steex : You're pretty much right - I believe the longest domestic flight in the world is CDG-RUN, a mere 7nm longer than ORY-RUN.
84 Post contains links ha763 : You know what, you are correct. In 2010, we had 145,689 visitors from the New York/Northern New Jersey/Long Island area. This works out to a rounded
85 slcdeltarumd11 : I think this will turn out to be a very difficult route for Hawaiian but they can probably get away with less than daily service. It will be cool and
86 Skyteam10001 : Not sure if this is still running - I tried a few dates on the AF website and couldn't find that flight.
87 steex : CDG-RUN is flown by UU, not AF.
88 Skyteam10001 : Such a beginner's mistake. (slaps himself twice) Thanks !
89 RobertS975 : Actually, I would not be shocked if DL were to codeshare the JFK-HNL flight. Also, the 10A departure would allow a decent feed from other northeast s
90 murchmo : Everyone here on Oahu is pretty excited. Within one hour of getting to my non-aviation related work today everyone knew about it and 3 of my co workes
91 rjm717 : Are you serious? From an Aussie point of view, that's nothing! These flights will connect eastbound nicely with the flights from SYD (and Asia if you
92 flyingalex : Looks like you'll have to factor in a night in Honolulu on the way home. SYD-HNL arrives at 10:10, with HNL-JFK departing at 15:05 - a long layover,
93 FoxBravo : A codeshare with B6 seems more likely, given their apparent choice of terminal, but even if HA doesn't codeshare with anyone at JFK, there will still
94 isp2 : I wouldn't be suprised if the following occurred - at T5 - between GT's 25, 26, and 27, one of the gates is removed - reducing T5 gate capacity to 25
95 steex : Even if that happens, there would be no need for two widebody gates - HA will be at JFK in the morning, EI would only be there in the evening. I thin
96 Post contains links flyby519 : Hawaiian looking for an East Coast feeder airline: http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/b...st-coast-feeder-for.html?ana=yfcpc Interline with B6 around
97 Post contains links contrails15 : Gotta love wiki. There hasn't even been an official announcement yet. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_International_Airport
98 BMI727 : That would be a smart move. Although JFK is probably a destination where HA could be successful without a partner, having a mainland partner providin
99 jetMARC : How do we know HA is using T5 in JFK? Can anyone provide a source?
100 contrails15 : With the activity that has been going on its pointing in that direction. Thats really all I'm gonna say. Go through this thread and you'll see more t
101 hawaiian717 : When discussing the visitor numbers from NYC to Hawaii, everyone is forgetting one thing. People travel the other way too. And with Aloha gone, I imag
102 jetMARC : Thanks. Didnt see the link/talks in my first initial scan of the thread... That being said, I did a flight search via the NYC port authority website a
103 FoxBravo : Yep, appears to have been changed to T4 in the computer reservations systems as well. Seems like maybe my first guess was correct after all...
104 contrails15 : Yup, looks like T4. Not a surprise though. Why have a carrier with no experience with widebody aircraft and no room in the terminal to house almost 30
105 HALFA : Pardon my ignorance as I have only been through JFK a few times in recent years. Is terminal 4 there the new AA terminal? I have been through AA's ter
106 flyby519 : No, AA is T8. T4 is typically used for international airlines
107 FoxBravo : Agreed. The only way T5 might have made sense would have been if they already had a B6 codeshare lined up, but even then, T5 really isn't set up for
108 jfklganyc : They would actually be better off in T5. T4 has become very overcrowded as of late and DL moving in will not help. The gates at T5 were actually desig
109 FoxBravo : True, but it's pretty quiet during the morning hours when HA would be using it.
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