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BBC Documentary On First 747-400 Delivered To BA  
User currently offlineSpeedbird741 From Portugal, joined Aug 2008, 654 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 25837 times:

I believe some of you will enjoy this little documentary as much as I did. Although I would like it to have focused more on the delivery of the aircraft, it is still very interesting. Enjoy looking at those gracious birds, which today are unfortunately being retired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWgvEHEycFw - Part one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MzqcWBsDJY&feature=related - Part two

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-Jfa5MRPg&feature=related - Part three

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zE7n...lb4CA&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL - Part four

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFy5P...F_OkI&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL - Part five

Speedbird741


Boa noite Faro, Air Portugal 257 climbing flight level 340
63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAV8AJET From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1358 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (3 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 25647 times:

Thanks for sharing! The BA 747-400's have always been some of my favourite 744's to travel on.


"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
User currently offlinetheginge From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (3 years 1 week 6 days ago) and read 25545 times:

Interesting in Part 5 where they talk about lack of investment in runway capacity......

Only in the UK could nothing change 20 years later!!


User currently offlinewarden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 25413 times:

I have said it before, and I will say it again...in my eyes, there is no aircraft gracing today's skies (with the possible exception of N707JT) that's more beautiful than a Speedbird 747-436. The Union Jack on the tail can look a bit odd on other aircraft, but in my opinion it fits the 747's tail perfectly. I've had the opportunity to fly on 4 of these wonderful ships, and hope that I'll have many more opportunities before the last one leaves the skies.

Thank you for posting the video...I'm saving all 5 parts to my computer for posterity. I know that the day's coming sooner rather than later, but there will be tears in my eyes when the last one is retired...



ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
User currently offlineshamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1610 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 25298 times:

@theginge you have no idea how untrue that comment is!

User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 25057 times:

Quoting theginge (Reply 2):
Quoting shamrock321 (Reply 4):
@theginge you have no idea how untrue that comment is!

Yup, he's right! Meet your brothers across the Irish sea.... we have a problem with that here too! Planning, enquiry, planning, dithering, enquiry, planning.......



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11690 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 24919 times:

Quoting shamrock321 (Reply 4):
theginge you have no idea how untrue that comment is!

Where has the investment been then? MAN got a second runway, LCY popped up, but apart from that?


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 24785 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 6):
Where has the investment been then? MAN got a second runway, LCY popped up, but apart from that?

We're just making the point that it is not only the UK that suffers from the complex of taking years to get anything done!  



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7696 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 24429 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 6):
Where has the investment been then? MAN got a second runway, LCY popped up, but apart from that?

Well before them there was always LGW. Their runway was opened in July 1958. Of course back then LHR had its third operational runway.

We must not be greedy.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11690 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 24419 times:

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 7):
We're just making the point that it is not only the UK that suffers from the complex of taking years to get anything done!

Ahh my apologies -I got wrong end of the stick there  
Quoting VV701 (Reply 8):
We must not be greedy.

Well we'll soon be getting a four runway super airport in the Thames anyway  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20789 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 24338 times:

Quoting Speedbird741 (Thread starter):
Enjoy looking at those gracious birds, which today are unfortunately being retired.

Thanks for posting these links. My first trip on BA 747s was LAX-LHR-LAX in early '92, with the 747(100? 200?) outbound, with a then brand-new 744 returning. Amazing that it's been so long now, that a few of the early 744s are already scheduled for break-up.

The return flight was only memorable that due to either a de-rated take-off or us simply being full to the gills, we had such a long take-off roll the guy behind me was prompted to let out a "Come on, baby, FLY!" before we got into the air.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently onlineIndependence76 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 268 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 23026 times:

Interesting programme....

I have to be honest, and I might sound crazy, but I would love to see that Landor livery back in the sky...



"In general, pride is at the bottom of all great mistakes." - John Ruskin
User currently offlinegarpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2697 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 22693 times:

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 11):

I have to be honest, and I might sound crazy, but I would love to see that Landor livery back in the sky...

No, no, not crazy at all. There are quite a few of us with similar wishes. Only way it'll happen is in the form of a retrojet though, and that is a long shot as it is.



arpdesign.wordpress.com
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2994 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 21128 times:

Just finished the first part -- oh so much has changed in 20 years   

User currently offlineEIRules From Ireland, joined Aug 2007, 829 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 20320 times:

Great to look back on what was considered "the future", 20 years ago.

Whatever happened to Air Europe? How did the giant that was AA and the little brother that was BA have such different experiences that have led them to the airlines that they are today? The disappearance of TW and PA etc

But some things never change - VS and their small fry world against us attitude and their jack russel of a chairman. BD worried about being swallowed up by a larger carrier. And of course the AA mad dogs still flying...

Excellent documentary though



Next Flights: EI DUB-LHR A320, BA LHR-SFO B744, UA SFO-LAS A320, BA LAS-LHR B744, EI LHR-DUB A320
User currently offlineGingersnap From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2010, 898 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 18598 times:

Quoting EIRules (Reply 14):
Whatever happened to Air Europe?

They went bankrupt in 1991, party due to a downturn in traffic and overextended financial costs.



Flown on: A306 A319/20/21 A332 B732/3/4/5/7/8 B742/4 B752 B762/3 B772/W C152 E195 F70/100 MD-82 Q400
User currently offlinegothamspotter From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 17005 times:

Quoting theginge (Reply 2):
Only in the UK could nothing change 20 years later!!

See also: The US.


User currently offlineBAW217 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2007, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 16285 times:

I saw this last night. It is a good documentary.


AA in the 1980's wanted Europe and LHR to be opened up for them and other US carriers.

AA gained LHR access after buying TWA. However the then AA chief exec said if they could get the rights to fly onwards to another destination then they would have no problem with BA (in this case) to flying internal US routes.

So now Europe is open to the American carriers, why isn't the US open to the European carriers? One flight a day between say LAX/SFO and HNL on BA or LH metel is not going to affect U.S. carriers and all the major alliances will just codeshare on any additional flights whilst updating thier ATI's to cover US internal flights.

The above is probably to dicuss in another thread at another time, but it just got me thinking.


User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2101 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 15425 times:

Oh dear, no crystal balls were present in part 5! It talks of how civil aviation is growing in a world where there was no major threat of war. Within two years of this we'd had the First Gulf War and a major recession, which severely hit air travel wolrdwide!

Seeing AA and BA linked up as they are today, it's almost hard to believe they were so against each other back then. However, also think of all the deals BA was thwarted from pulling off in the 1990s - merger/acquisition - with SN, KL, CO and UA at different times.

Crandall's arguement about LHR access is also interesting - at this time only one UK carrier (BA) and two US carrieres (PA and TW) had LHR access. When UA and AA acquired the LHR rights from PA and TW respectively, the UK government negotiated an amendment to Bermuda II to allow a second UK carrier access from LHR to the USA, namely VS. Given that BA also had domestic and then European competition from LHR in the form of BD, it can't be said that the UK was that uncompetitve given the situation in a lot of other European countries prior to the single aviation market in 1992.



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlinesomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3481 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 15330 times:

Quoting BAW217 (Reply 17):
So now Europe is open to the American carriers, why isn't the US open to the European carriers?

American carriers doesn't have any more access to Europe than vice verca. Neither can fly within the other continent


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 15240 times:

Quoting BAW217 (Reply 17):
AA gained LHR access after buying TWA.

By buying TWA's LHR routes, not TWA.

Quoting BAW217 (Reply 17):
So now Europe is open to the American carriers, why isn't the US open to the European carriers? One flight a day between say LAX/SFO and HNL on BA or LH metel is not going to affect U.S. carriers and all the major alliances will just codeshare on any additional flights whilst updating thier ATI's to cover US internal flights.

The US, like almost all countries (with rare exceptions like the European single market for European carriers only), will never agree to cabotage. US carriers do not have cabotage rights within any European countries. They only have 5th freedom flights on international routes, just like European carriers have 5th freedom rights beyond the U.S., subject to haing the same rights from the 3rd country involved.

[Edited 2011-11-17 12:18:10]

User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4211 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (3 years 1 week 5 days ago) and read 14763 times:

Quoting gothamspotter (Reply 16):
See also: The US.

Hmmm... perhaps its an English speaking "thang".  



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineshankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1547 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (3 years 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 14585 times:

What an interesting historical perspective, more so in that there was absolutely no reference to some of the big issues which dominate civil transport today:

1. Low cost airlines as we know them now - SWA in US and Easy/Ryanair in Europe
2. The emergence of the Middle Eastern hub giants
3. Alliances, which effectively negate the need for the landing rights so hotly contested by AA and BA back then
4. The subsequent collapse of many of the European state airlines

Interestingly also saw only one Airbus in all those clips...The Dan Air A300



L1011 - P F M
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17786 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (3 years 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 13357 times:

Quoting BAW217 (Reply 17):

So now Europe is open to the American carriers, why isn't the US open to the European carriers?
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 20):
The US, like almost all countries (with rare exceptions like the European single market for European carriers only), will never agree to cabotage

I will never understand why EU carriers want access to the domestic market. It's like a cancer patient wanting more cancer. EU carriers would get absolutely annihilated in the US--0they're a solid decade behind the US carriers in terms of deregulation.

Quoting someone83 (Reply 19):
American carriers doesn't have any more access to Europe than vice verca. Neither can fly within the other continent

US carriers can and (rarely) do fly within Europe, but the results are so dreadful that tags are avoided as often as possible. Why would the EU want that?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinejcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 39
Reply 24, posted (3 years 1 week 3 days ago) and read 13204 times:

Very cool. What was the date of delivery for the first -400?


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
25 lhr380 : Great viewing. Never knew BNLC was the first 400 for the carrier.
26 shamrock604 : Not all of them - i would suggest Irish and British Carriers are significantly ahead of the curve.
27 TCASAlert : Great programme, very interesting viewing. I wish they made interesting documentaries like this these days. It wasn't. They took LA on 30/06/1989, LC
28 Speedbird741 : I am not certain of this, so please do correct if I wrong, but I believe LC entered into revenue service prior to LA or LB. Speedbird741
29 FlyCaledonian : Tags were a lot more common 20 years ago than today. For BA it had PA and TW operating tags from London, and it also saw PA operating a mini hub at F
30 UAL747 : It's interesting to see the Thai 742 at DFW in the footage in part 5. Very interesting documentary indeed. Love the fact that AA and BA were at it at
31 ModernArt : All of those beautiful American 727-200s. I wish part three of this series was available...dealt with airline hubs and a visit to Atlanta.
32 Post contains images shufflemoomin : Thanks for posting this. I thoroughly enjoyed watching it. I also enjoyed the arrogance of American Airways wanting to attack the "flag carriers of Eu
33 A340600 : Great documentary. BNLC is one of the few registrations I remember working on. I worked a flight LAX-LHR on it back in 2008, nearly 20 years after tha
34 American 767 : And DC-10s. At that time American still had a large fleet of 727s and DC-10s. The footage is from 1990. So did I. I enjoyed looking at the huge flaps
35 MaverickM11 : Even then I just couldn't see it as a viable option. Could you imagine if they got anything up and running? By the time they got remotely big enough
36 qf002 : This is pre-Alliances. It wouldn't have been a big scale operation -- probably just a hub in New York or someone similar on the East Coast flying on
37 EDICHC : How can anyone call this great viewing? First of all this was part of the BBC series Airline made during the height of what became known known as 'Dir
38 mikey72 : I thought it was fantastic viewing. The rise of a wonderful airline. The airline industry has always been 'dog eat dog''. Never more so than now. Let
39 EDICHC : Since when have EK tried to illegally drive out of business (at least) 3 competitors? Rather than having a dig at me (again) try addressing the issue
40 FlyCaledonian : You're looking at that with the benefit of hindsight. Back in 1990 who would have predicted the rise of B6 at JFK, or U2 and FR in Europe? At that ti
41 mikey72 : It's business, it happens, it still happens, it will always happen. Legally or illegally. I don't CARE what BA did I still think they're a great airl
42 VV701 : It was the second delivery - see below - but the first in service - also see below. Yes. 'LA and 'LC were photographed nose to nose at PAE on 30 June
43 Viscount724 : How do you figure that? Supersonic flights over U.S. have long been prohibited. You will recall that Braniff operated leased BA and AF Concordes sub-
44 qf002 : I'm not 100% in the know re restrictions etc, but I'm sure that doing proper transcontinental flights (I'm thinking LAX in particular here) with a si
45 Viscount724 : Concorde fuel consumption at subsonic speeds was very high. Leaving aside the cost, I doubt they would have even had the range to operate nonstop US
46 Post contains images mikey72 : Nobody is trying to silence you EDICHC. I respect your opinion, I'm just exercising my right to express 'my' contrary opinion. It was a constructive
47 shankly : Air Europe's problem was that it wanted to be a man for all seasons and in doing so added itself to the list of the worlds badly managed ex-airlines.
48 Post contains links and images EDICHC : You were not but someone else was, it was fairly obvious in the content of their post. And I stand by my remarks. This series (made with MY licence f
49 lhr380 : Because it was, so far you are the only one to think it is not. It was nice to see the delivery, what goes on during it, and what was going on in the
50 EDICHC : The whole reason it was a poor documentary was because of what was NOT said about the goings on in the industry at the time. It was a whitewash. The
51 lhr380 : Why not? It is a good part of history So when making a documentary, EVERY thing going on has to be said in it. This was about getting a new plane. Wh
52 Speedbird741 : The title of the documentary is "747-400 Delivery to British Airways". If anything, it said far too much about the state of the industry and too litt
53 shufflemoomin : EDICHC, I respect your opinions but I have something that it seems may come as news to you: all documentaries have reasons behind them. You're not goi
54 Post contains images ATL : Great documentary, thanks for posting It's so funny to see BA portray AA as this airline out to take over the airline world, when we now have EK 'stea
55 mikey72 : 'gushfest'...'fanboy'....'apologist'.....what's next ? You keep on saying that people that support BA on this site are all employees. (that maybe the
56 Post contains images EDICHC : Sources..... Dirty Tricks - British Airways secret war against Virgin Atlantic by Martyn Gregory 1996 2nd Edition Warner Books ISBN 0 7515 1063 7 Thi
57 EDICHC : Since when has recounting irrefutable facts, however unsavoury they may be for some, translated into hatred? It is not for you to judge me in that ma
58 nonimaus : I think, from an outsiders perspective, it appears to be...how to put this politely...somewhat of a negative and dogmatic pursual of BA. As others ha
59 EDICHC : Simply to restore some balance where I see BA being portrayed as something it is not. To a degree, increasing awareness is never a bad thing. Oh I al
60 Post contains images mikey72 : Oh heavens preserve us....I don't think I could go through all this again. Who are you kidding anyway? You'll find some angle to bring in to trash BA
61 EDICHC : For me that will not happen until someone responsible is held accountable for their actions and real signs that BA have turned the corner in their bu
62 EDICHC : That is your opinion, to which you are entitled. Indeed there is nothing to stop your good self from initialising such a debate if you think it neces
63 mikey72 : Ummm..anyway, I wonder if we'll see the same kind of fanfare when the BA A380's arrive ? I just hope they go on the L.A.
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