Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Air Seychelles Withdrawing From Europe  
User currently offlinefcogafa From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 784 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9129 times:

Air Seychelles have announced a codeshare with Etihad which will mean them withdrawing all flights from LHR & CDG by March next year.

Air Seychelles repositions and will restructure

I wonder who will get the LHR slots - a chance for Arik?!

[Edited 2011-11-18 03:02:42 by SA7700]

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 9101 times:

Aren't these European flights important for the tourism industry of the Seychelles? It seems most of the tourist there are from Europe.

User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7475 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8824 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Thread starter):
I wonder who will get the LHR slots - a chance for Arik?!


If I am reading the data in the link correctly the LHR arrival slots are at 20.00 hrs on Day 4 and 0735 hrs on Day 7. The departure slots are at 18.25 hrs on Day 5 (after a lay over of 22 hr 25 min) and 1820 hrs on Day 7 (after a 10 hr 45 min layover).

I am thinking that these poor slot times could be one or even the main reason why the service is being discontinued. Aircraft parking charges at LHR are not cheap (unless as per SA you can come to an arrangement with BA to park on their maintenance ramp). The standard BAA charge at the start of Summer 2010 was £7.19 per metric tonne per 15 minutes or part of 15 minutes during operating hours. Between 07.00 and 12.29 GMT these charges were trebled. [Check this out by googling "Heathrow Landing Charges" and scrolling down to "Heathrow Airport" on the recovered links - sorry I cannot make a pasted link work.]

Amongst these slots I think the only one of real value is the Day 5 18.25 departure slot. But paired with an arrival slot almost a day earlier appears to significantly reduce its value. Indeed I would think that it would be of no interest to any airline not hubbed at LHR. Even then I think VS would probably find it difficult to integrate this slot pair into their schedules. BA probably could use the pair by mixing and matching with other slots they currently operate. But the HM slots do not appear to me to be of any value to Arik.


User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 8614 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 2):
Aircraft parking charges at LHR are not cheap (unless as per SA you can come to an arrangement with BA to park on their maintenance ramp)

It already does. BA also does maint for them at LHR.


User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8474 times:

That really is a shame if they do pull out of Europe.

The market for these long haul holidays (in fact honeymoons) must be tiny these days. Isn't there a smaller aircraft they could use with more stops?


User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 757 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8308 times:

I can see an LGW-SEZ starting up from BA on the beck of this.

User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17444 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8017 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 2):
I am thinking that these poor slot times could be one or even the main reason why the service is being discontinued.

They certainly don't help, but ultimately running an airline where 99.9% of your passengers are offshore in your spokes is incredibly difficult. HA has managed to make it work, but they are the exception. In this instance, HM's passengers are entirely LHR originating, where nobody knows who they are, and certainly aren't likely to pay a premium fare to fly them.

Quoting cchan (Reply 1):
Aren't these European flights important for the tourism industry of the Seychelles?

Yes, but funding an airline is expensive; see also TN, JM, anything the Maldives has tried, AQ, CY, etc...

Quoting Babybus (Reply 4):
The market for these long haul holidays (in fact honeymoons) must be tiny these days. Isn't there a smaller aircraft they could use with more stops?

They don't stand a chance against QR/EY/EK, even holiday tour operators out of Europe...



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2390 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7999 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Thank you Emirates & co... 

After LH's withdrawal from CAN.



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2608 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7548 times:

Not that many people lives on the Seychelles, but since it's a British Commonwealth, Does it have some kind of SEZ-U.K. VFR O/D traffic?
Probably moving LON flights to STN or LTN instead of dropping it altogether could have made more sense.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 701 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6124 times:

Not many Americans travel there that is for sure. It is too bad, hopefully BA or VS take this route. Those parking charges are insane, I wonder how much the QF A380's have to pay for all those hours (I suppose they might have the deal with BA)

User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12501 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5459 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

That's sad news, I always like seeing their 767s at Heathrow.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Steve Brimley




Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineManekS From Singapore, joined Oct 2008, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5426 times:

I wonder what's going on at Air Seychelles. Its sad to see they're ending almost all their intercontinental routes right after such a great rebranding exercise.

User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17444 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5285 times:

Quoting ManekS (Reply 11):
Its sad to see they're ending almost all their intercontinental routes right after such a great rebranding exercise.

Makes you wonder where it's worth sticking any of their 767s, when QR/EY/EK/even KQ can get you to just about all the major tourist sources daily.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinegardermoen From Australia, joined Jul 1999, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5125 times:

So if they are pulling out of Europe, Singapore etc, just WHERE do they intend to fly to is what I'd like to know? Not much else around them for source markets, unless they intend to look at China? But then again,is Seychelles too expensive for the Chinese market?

User currently offlineNavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1207 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4073 times:

Quoting fcogafa (Thread starter):
I wonder who will get the LHR slots - a chance for Arik?!

I think the line of airlines wanting further slots at Heathrow is very very long. It would be interesting to know exactly how BAA gives slots. I think it has to do with schedules, (time of day), how many slots and at what times the airline already has etc. I also think the price varies depending on time of day. This is a whole system so it will not just be given away to Arik like that. Many others are in line, like Air China, SAS, Cathay etc etc.

But it would be nice to know the exact rules when it comes to those LHR slots  



747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3969 times:

Quoting gardermoen (Reply 13):

They will be left with Johannesburg and Mauritius besides Mahe and Praslin in Seychelles.


User currently offlinetitus95 From France, joined Feb 2009, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3813 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

So bye bye 787 Air Seychelles !

User currently offlineAF777300ER From France, joined Aug 2007, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3763 times:

What about flights from CDG. Is Air France going to reinstate its own flights to Seychelles ?


Next trip : BOD - CDG - GIG - SSA - GIG - CDG - BOD
User currently onlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3238 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3486 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 3):

Quoting VV701 (Reply 2):
Aircraft parking charges at LHR are not cheap (unless as per SA you can come to an arrangement with BA to park on their maintenance ramp)

It already does. BA also does maint for them at LHR.


(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)

They don't use BA parking though, they are remote parked at T4 so they will pay full price I think.


User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2987 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3380 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 18):
Quoting lhr380 (Reply 3):

Quoting VV701 (Reply 2):
Aircraft parking charges at LHR are not cheap (unless as per SA you can come to an arrangement with BA to park on their maintenance ramp)

It already does. BA also does maint for them at LHR.


(The views on this site are my own and no one elses)

They don't use BA parking though, they are remote parked at T4 so they will pay full price I think.

Don't they overnight on the United Mx stands - Perhaps Continted need those stands now ( they have used it for a long stay 75w in the recent past)

And as said above the Air Seychelles slots are valueless to anyone - They will go back into clearing.

Clearly they have lost a major tour operator somewhere Kuoni and/or BA World Holidays?

Certainly suggests the BA Mauritius in for an extension the SEY once again pretty soon

Fcogafa - As to Arik an airline that had TWO DAILY pairs used until just a few weeks ago what is your reasoning for mentioning them.They are a Nigerian carrier operating in a corrupt business environment and until they can get their payment and sales network sorted they are likely to go the way of others from THAT country no matter what their hard product is like !


User currently onlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3238 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3260 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 19):
Don't they overnight on the United Mx stands - Perhaps Continted need those stands now ( they have used it for a long stay 75w in the recent past)

There are no "United maintenance stands" at LHR. All remote parking is common use to allow the best use of airbridge equipped gates, any aircraft on a 4 hour layover might spend an hour on the 250s. Air Seychelles use the 450s or 429-431 when parked off stand. These are all common usage and indeed the 450s are again being used for bussing flights.


User currently offlineGBRandSYCguy From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2011, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3101 times:

MarverickM11, do not just assume people in the Seychelles cannot afford to travel. If you do some research you will find out that HM has been wanting to pull out of London for a long time due to poor load factor FROM LHR not SEZ. The only reason it has kept it is because there is a healthy market from the Seychelles during the school holidays in April, August & December as many Seychellois has UK links with Seychelles being in the commonwealth etc...but otherwise it struggled both sides. British holiday makers have never been that popular in the Seychelles (although the royal couple gave it a slight boost), it's more French, German & Italians that goes there. HM is pulling out due aggressive competitions from EK, QR & EY. When BA & AF were sending their planes to SEZ, HM were making profits year after year. They might see AF back due to the codeshare they share with HM but BA or VS i very much doubt it for a long time!

User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7475 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3076 times:

Quoting Navigator (Reply 14):
It would be interesting to know exactly how BAA gives slots.


BAA have nothing to do with the issue of LHR slots.

New or confiscated LHR slots are assigned and their usage monitored by Airport Coordination Ltd. They issue and control slots within the parameters laid down by the EU (as is required at all slot constrained airports within the EU. Where new or confiscated slots become available EU regulations require that newcomers must be the preferred applicants for such slots).

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 19):
Don't they overnight on the United Mx stands


BAA do not charge for aircraft parked on any stand while the airport is closed down overnight.

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 9):
Those parking charges are insane,


Apart from runway arrival and departure slots most so-called "slot constrained" airports are likely to suffer from two other constraints, passenger handling constraints and aircraft stand constraints. So, for example, slots at LHR will be issued taking into account the terminal the aircraft will use (absolute passenger numbers) and whether the flight is international or domestic (in-termial immigration facilities).

I believe (but certainly do not know) that the high stand parking charges are designed specifically to reduce the time spent by aircraft on active stands.

For example if an aircraft was to suffer a minor maintenance problem while parked at a gate and the gate parking charges were low it could be more economic for the airline to leave the aircraft parked at the gate while engineers fixed the problem. High parking charges would probably make it more economic for the airline to have the aircraft towed to a maintenance area to be fixed. This, of course, would then free the gate for use by another aircraft.

A simpler example is an aircraft arriving in the early morning on a long haul flight that has been scheduled to depart at, say, around lunch time on its next flight. Low parking charges might make it more economic for the airline to leave the aircraft on its terminal stand than have it towed and parked on a ramp of which the airline is the lessor. So again high parking charges encourage the more efficient use of any given stand partricularly when the airline operates a hub at that airport and has its own permanently leased ramp space.

A strong indicator that the above supposition is correct is the lack of night time charges at LHR. Of course when the airport is closed there is no urgency for the airport operator to try to free stand space. And if parking charges were purely or mainly revenue and not operation driven then one would expect BAA to make at least a small charge for overnight parking.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2891 times:

EK & Co are becoming for smaller airlines like Walmart for Mom and Pop stores, not good.

User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17444 posts, RR: 46
Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2815 times:

Quoting GBRandSYCguy (Reply 21):
MarverickM11, do not just assume people in the Seychelles cannot afford to travel.

No one assumed that; I said the number of people traveling to SEZ is much larger than the number of locals leaving the island: many more people visit the islands in one year than live on them

Quoting GBRandSYCguy (Reply 21):
If you do some research you will find out that HM has been wanting to pull out of London for a long time due to poor load factor FROM LHR not SEZ.

It's pulling out of Europe, not just LHR.



E pur si muove -Galileo
25 airevents : If I am not mistaken, I read somewhere today that they were to bundle their activities in CDG. That is Europe somehow....
26 GBRandSYCguy : Having worked for HM, i have seen them struggling in my last month there (december 2004) to fill a twice weekly B767 to LHR even before the gulf airli
27 GBRandSYCguy : Correction: my last month with HM was March 2005 not December 2004. So my load factor quotes are from the period of March 2005 not December 2004.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
First B767 In New Air Seychelles (HM) Livery posted Mon Oct 31 2011 10:31:34 by GBRandSYCguy
Air Seychelles New Livery & Logo posted Fri Sep 30 2011 07:50:44 by GBRandSYCguy
Service To Djibouti From Europe posted Mon Sep 26 2011 19:50:50 by airfrancejfk
Iran Air - Fuel Bans In Europe Question posted Sun Jan 2 2011 05:32:49 by Yirina77
Air India Hub In Europe posted Wed Oct 6 2010 08:05:49 by dc10bhx
Air Seychelles At LTN posted Wed Sep 15 2010 13:50:18 by SyeaphanR
Qantas Is Looking At Withdrawing From Buenos Aires posted Mon Sep 6 2010 14:33:33 by sexyadonis
Air Seychelles Short 360-600 In Israel SDV: Why? posted Sun Aug 8 2010 03:10:50 by LY777
Air Seychelles And The 787-900 posted Thu Jul 22 2010 05:27:16 by stephenfaure
Air Traffic Delays In Europe : Figures posted Wed Jul 7 2010 02:18:49 by FlySSC
Etihad Purchases 40% Air Seychelles Stake posted Wed Jan 25 2012 07:00:23 by 777
Air Seychelles Returning All B767-300ERs To Ilfc posted Wed Dec 7 2011 16:37:39 by cchan
First B767 In New Air Seychelles (HM) Livery posted Mon Oct 31 2011 10:31:34 by GBRandSYCguy
Air Seychelles New Livery & Logo posted Fri Sep 30 2011 07:50:44 by GBRandSYCguy
Service To Djibouti From Europe posted Mon Sep 26 2011 19:50:50 by airfrancejfk
Iran Air - Fuel Bans In Europe Question posted Sun Jan 2 2011 05:32:49 by Yirina77
Air India Hub In Europe posted Wed Oct 6 2010 08:05:49 by dc10bhx
Air Seychelles At LTN posted Wed Sep 15 2010 13:50:18 by SyeaphanR