keuleatr72 From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 93 posts, RR: 0 Posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 15720 times:
According to a report from "Spiegel online" a former German Air Force Airbus ended up in Iran with W5.
The Airbus A310, former 10+22 "Theodor Heuss", was sold to a group of investors from the Ukraine for 3.125 million euros. The group of investors then sold the Bus to Iran´s W5.
something From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 24 Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 15277 times:
Quoting keuleatr72 (Thread starter): Wasn´t it the chairman of W5 who recently told the press, that his team was pretty "creative" when it comes to aircraft aquisitions?
Not sure how creative this really is. It's been going on forever that LH has sold old aircraft - predominantly A300s - to a leasing company in Kazhakstan (sp?) or the Ukraine who then passed the aircraft off to Iran Air or Mahan Air.
Birdwatching From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3573 posts, RR: 52 Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 14998 times:
Quoting irshava (Reply 1): Will the cabin be refitted for PAX ops or no?
They registered it EP-VIP. I think this says it all.
Soren
All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 7762 posts, RR: 26 Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 14750 times:
All German government surplus is sold through a company called "Vebeg" which is wholly owned by the federal republic.The highest bidder wins the bidding. Simple as that.
If export licenses are needed, the buyer has to obtain an export license from the "Bundesamt fuer Gewerbliche Wirtschaft" in Eschbirn near frankfurt. Did not seem to be required here. If there are no further restrictions, the buyer can do what he wants. Landing on a US black list is no threat to a consortium which is formed just for the single purposes and dissolved afterwards.
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 7762 posts, RR: 26 Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 14535 times:
Thje biddings are open to anyone who has the cash and not subject to US happiness. Go to www.vebeg.de and you can see that items, such as military equipment, is subject to export license. If there was an export license needed for the sale to Ukraine, it was obviously issued. The aircraft was delivered "white" without any markings.
a300 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 453 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 14443 times:
Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 3): Quoting irshava (Reply 1):
Will the cabin be refitted for PAX ops or no?
They registered it EP-VIP. I think this says it all.
I totally agree. The registration is unique and not part of Mahan's usual registration sequences. Interestingly, a former Luftwaffe Tu-154M (11+01) found its way to the Iran Air Tours fleet as EP‑MBL and was operated in standard (non-VIP) passenger configuration. I found the fact that both EP-MBL and EP-MBL were with Interflug before going to Luftwaffe fascinating. Very interesting journey for these ships indeed.
It is a virtual certainty that Mahan will continue to grow the fleet with as many A300-600 and A310-300 aircraft that they can get their hands on. The newest A300-600 they have added is a PW-powered specimen, unlike all their other A300/A310s. Perhaps they will finally retire the few jurassic first generation A300s they have left.
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 7762 posts, RR: 26 Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14223 times:
Quoting a300 (Reply 7): I found the fact that both EP-MBL and EP-MBL were with Interflug before going to Luftwaffe fascinating. Very interesting journey for these ships indeed.
Interflug never operated the Tu-154 commercially. These 2 were VIP aircraft for the East German regime. Interflug actually was in charge of operating anything with wings, from agriculture flying to airline ops and airports. They wre part of the regime.
EDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13993 times:
Quoting qantas747flyer (Reply 5): not sure the Americans will be happy about this...
Why? Once an asset is sold the German government agency responsible for the sale no longer has any control over what the new owner does with said asset.
SolarFlyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 395 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 10322 times:
Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 3): They registered it EP-VIP. I think this says it all.
Soren
That is amusing.
I don't think its actually a problem for them to purchase an aircraft more than 7 years old which this AC clrearly is. The problem is the transfer of money. In this case it went through a Eastern European country but the bank that brokered the deal is probably not permitted to bank in the US. Flying realiable planes over european skies for civilians is kind of in everyone's best interest anyway.
pliersinsight From United States of America, joined May 2008, 446 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9959 times:
Quoting Acheron (Reply 18): Quoting qantas747flyer (Reply 5):
I'm not sure the Americans will be happy about this...
I don't think many people give a damn about what americans think of the sale of a used civilian aircraft, to be honest.
As an American, my response would be "who cares". There are much more important things to deal with over here than Iran's leader. From a political standpoint, I see it as a mistake on their part. Getting yourself a fancy new jet in the wake of what has been going on with the Arab spring might not be such a great idea.
I'm glad the Germans could find a buyer and maybe even got overpaid. Hopefully they knew the fix was in and put a phantom bidder in to get every last euro out of the syndicate.
lh526 From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 2253 posts, RR: 17 Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9437 times:
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Quoting aero145 (Reply 19): Could you care to elaborate on that one?
Germany sold the plane to an unnamed investment company from eastern europe. This company submitted the highest bid. Rumor has it that this company is part of the same middleman-company that sold 3 ex UA B744 to Iran.
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sunilgupta From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 770 posts, RR: 15 Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8895 times:
Quoting lh526 (Reply 17): Quoting keuleatr72 (Thread starter):
Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran
Wrong! The A310 has been sold to a company, the highest bidder of the auction! THAT company sold it to Iran and is to blame, not germany!
Why is he wrong? He said "Former German Air Force"... not "Germany sold it to Iran"...
Just for the record: if I, as an American company, knowingly sell something that is embargoed or sanctioned to a "3rd party" knowing full well it will end up in the wrong hands, I will spend time in jail - it is US Law and it is clear. I can't comment on how that law applies to this case because the airplane (which I just saw two days ago in KBP!) wasn't sold by an American company; however, I am making this comment in response to some of the comments above.
25 lh526: He is wrong because he said that the Airbus, formerly belonging to the German Air Force has been sold to Iran, that's wrong because the former German
26 Larshjort: The Airbus is still a former Luftwaffe aircraft, and it will always be a former Luftwaffe aircraft Until it's broken up. /Lars
27 777STL: You could try being a little less.....abrupt. I also don't see how what he said was wrong. It was an ex German AF 310 and it was sold to Iran - I fai
28 kanban: the sale to the investment company did not change the a/c lineage... if Iran now sells it to Bhutan, it's still a former German Air Force plane.
29 PanHAM: we might as well settle on the fact that it really is a former Interflug A310 which was "inherited" by the Federal Republic of Germany and afterwards
30 qantas747flyer: Out of curiosity is this fitted with US made engines?
31 WestJet747: Due diligence is a significant step in the procurement-sales process. LH and the German Airforce have a good idea where the aircraft are headed as th
32 keuleatr72: Here is a link in english. From "Spiegel online": http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,798973,00.html For the record: The Airbus A310 is t
34 ikramerica: Convient but not necessarily true. 13 LH birds are already with Mahan. Terms of sale could be such that the aircraft may not be resold to an embargoe
35 aero145: Meine Güte, even IF “Germany” would’ve sold their Luftwaffe’bus to Iran, it wouldn’t have been Germany giving the Iranian Air Force an air
36 falstaff: I wonder if it was the aircraft that carried my 1st day cover. I think IF only had 3 A310s so the chances are good.
37 rjm777ual: I'm gonna miss this bird at KIAD (Dulles)!!
38 something: I just read in a German paper that the CEO of ''VEBEG'' Uwe Schade claims he ''didn't know'' who bought the airplane. The contract was signed by a com
39 Viscount724: GE and P&W engines were the only engines available on the A300/310.
40 irshava: Lol... only Ukrainians can do this... :P
41 qantas747flyer: Wouldn't that pose export problems to Iran? - I believe current regulations specify that the current limit is 10% US parts being allowed on aircraft
42 PanHAM: As far as Germany is concerned, the aircraft was exported to the Ukraine. Neither the Ukraine nor Russia or other CIS countries observe US and UN sanc
43 qantas747flyer: At the time of sale I believe that the German vendor (in compliance with international trade regulations) would have requested the "end user" details
44 PanHAM: I mentioned before that it is the buyers obligation to apply for an export license, should one be required. A quick check tells me that at least for t
45 beeweel15: So that means that all the companies that do business with Saudi Arabia, China, Eastern Europe and countries friendly to Iran their CEO's should be i
46 777way: I dont think they bought them, nor does the link state that either.
47 qantas747flyer: We need to consider to intent of the purchase - i.e. if the intent of listing the "Ukrainian start-up" as the end-user was simply to side-step sancti
48 qantas747flyer: There are lots of ways of looking at it - it could even be said that they stole the aircraft (see Wikipedia quote below) so lets not split hairs. Suf
49 777way: ^ Perhaps they did, could the reason too for repainting them in Mahan livery eventually.
50 PanHAM: it was an assumption since we will not be able to look into the documentation which is data protected. They could as well have said that thze aircraf
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