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Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran  
User currently offlinekeuleatr72 From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 97 posts, RR: 0
Posted (3 years 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 17345 times:

According to a report from "Spiegel online" a former German Air Force Airbus ended up in Iran with W5.
The Airbus A310, former 10+22 "Theodor Heuss", was sold to a group of investors from the Ukraine for 3.125 million euros. The group of investors then sold the Bus to Iran´s W5.

Link (only in german - sorry)
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,798907,00.html

I will post a link in english as soon as I can find one.

Wasn´t it the chairman of W5 who recently told the press, that his team was pretty "creative" when it comes to aircraft aquisitions?

50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineirshava From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (3 years 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 17275 times:
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Will the cabin be refitted for PAX ops or no?


“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (3 years 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 16902 times:

Quoting keuleatr72 (Thread starter):
Wasn´t it the chairman of W5 who recently told the press, that his team was pretty "creative" when it comes to aircraft aquisitions?

Not sure how creative this really is. It's been going on forever that LH has sold old aircraft - predominantly A300s - to a leasing company in Kazhakstan (sp?) or the Ukraine who then passed the aircraft off to Iran Air or Mahan Air.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3830 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (3 years 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 16623 times:

Quoting irshava (Reply 1):
Will the cabin be refitted for PAX ops or no?

They registered it EP-VIP. I think this says it all.

Soren   



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9670 posts, RR: 31
Reply 4, posted (3 years 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16375 times:

All German government surplus is sold through a company called "Vebeg" which is wholly owned by the federal republic.The highest bidder wins the bidding. Simple as that.

If export licenses are needed, the buyer has to obtain an export license from the "Bundesamt fuer Gewerbliche Wirtschaft" in Eschbirn near frankfurt. Did not seem to be required here. If there are no further restrictions, the buyer can do what he wants. Landing on a US black list is no threat to a consortium which is formed just for the single purposes and dissolved afterwards.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineqantas747flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (3 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 16229 times:

I'm not sure the Americans will be happy about this...

User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9670 posts, RR: 31
Reply 6, posted (3 years 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 16160 times:

Thje biddings are open to anyone who has the cash and not subject to US happiness. Go to www.vebeg.de and you can see that items, such as military equipment, is subject to export license. If there was an export license needed for the sale to Ukraine, it was obviously issued. The aircraft was delivered "white" without any markings.


E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinea300 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (3 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 16068 times:
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Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 3):
Quoting irshava (Reply 1):
Will the cabin be refitted for PAX ops or no?

They registered it EP-VIP. I think this says it all.

I totally agree. The registration is unique and not part of Mahan's usual registration sequences. Interestingly, a former Luftwaffe Tu-154M (11+01) found its way to the Iran Air Tours fleet as EP‑MBL and was operated in standard (non-VIP) passenger configuration. I found the fact that both EP-MBL and EP-MBL were with Interflug before going to Luftwaffe fascinating. Very interesting journey for these ships indeed.

It is a virtual certainty that Mahan will continue to grow the fleet with as many A300-600 and A310-300 aircraft that they can get their hands on. The newest A300-600 they have added is a PW-powered specimen, unlike all their other A300/A310s. Perhaps they will finally retire the few jurassic first generation A300s they have left.



Boland Aseman Jayegah Man Ast.
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9670 posts, RR: 31
Reply 8, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15848 times:

Quoting a300 (Reply 7):
I found the fact that both EP-MBL and EP-MBL were with Interflug before going to Luftwaffe fascinating. Very interesting journey for these ships indeed.

Interflug never operated the Tu-154 commercially. These 2 were VIP aircraft for the East German regime. Interflug actually was in charge of operating anything with wings, from agriculture flying to airline ops and airports. They wre part of the regime.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1398 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15661 times:

Quoting qantas747flyer (Reply 5):
I'm not sure the Americans will be happy about this...

I'm not sure the Germans will care too much about this...   



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (3 years 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15618 times:

Quoting qantas747flyer (Reply 5):
not sure the Americans will be happy about this...

Why? Once an asset is sold the German government agency responsible for the sale no longer has any control over what the new owner does with said asset.


User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (3 years 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15591 times:

The history of the aircraft owned by Mahan are really interesting.

Original Customers:

A300:
Lufthansa 10
Thai 4
TOA Domestic 3
Emirates 2
Eastern 1
Air France 1

A310:
Lufthansa 3
Hapag Lloyd 2
CSA 2
Turkish 2

747:
United 3
UTA 2

Avro:
China Northwest 2

TriStar:
Delta 1


User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7088 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (3 years 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15564 times:

It will only be embarassing if this aircraft will become the new Iranian Air Force 1


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9670 posts, RR: 31
Reply 13, posted (3 years 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15521 times:

Quoting columba (Reply 12):
t will only be embarassing if this aircraft will become the new Iranian Air Force 1

mmmhhhh, with a woman as pre-owner?   Who'd be embarrased here?  



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4405 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (3 years 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 15102 times:

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 13):
mmmhhhh, with a woman as pre-owner? Who'd be embarrased here?

She not I'm sure, and the American can be happy they know the plane so well...


User currently offlineshankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1547 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13687 times:

I wonder if the Iranians fancy a few VC-10's?


L1011 - P F M
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8576 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (3 years 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13447 times:

Quoting qantas747flyer (Reply 5):
I'm not sure the Americans will be happy about this...

American companies have been doing the exact same thing for years. You can find American products for sale in Iran, Cuba, and earlier in embargoed Iraq. How do you think they get there?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/40536012/Amer...in_Iran_Despite_Economic_Sanctions
http://www.miamiherald.com/2009/08/2...merican-made-products-readily.html
Just about every major corporation in the World does business with Iran.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...10/03/06/world/iran-sanctions.html


User currently offlinelh526 From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 2379 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (3 years 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12507 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting keuleatr72 (Thread starter):
Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran  

Wrong! The A310 has been sold to a company, the highest bidder of the auction! THAT company sold it to Iran and is to blame, not germany!



Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1698 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (3 years 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12507 times:

Quoting qantas747flyer (Reply 5):

I'm not sure the Americans will be happy about this...

I don't think many people give a damn about what americans think of the sale of a used civilian aircraft, to be honest.


User currently offlineaero145 From Iceland, joined Jan 2005, 3071 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (3 years 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 12332 times:

Quoting lh526 (Reply 17):
is to blame

Could you care to elaborate on that one?


User currently offlineSolarFlyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 1113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (3 years 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 11947 times:

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 3):
They registered it EP-VIP. I think this says it all.
Soren

That is amusing.

I don't think its actually a problem for them to purchase an aircraft more than 7 years old which this AC clrearly is. The problem is the transfer of money. In this case it went through a Eastern European country but the bank that brokered the deal is probably not permitted to bank in the US. Flying realiable planes over european skies for civilians is kind of in everyone's best interest anyway.


User currently offlinepliersinsight From United States of America, joined May 2008, 498 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (3 years 6 days ago) and read 11584 times:

Quoting Acheron (Reply 18):
Quoting qantas747flyer (Reply 5):
I'm not sure the Americans will be happy about this...
I don't think many people give a damn about what americans think of the sale of a used civilian aircraft, to be honest.

As an American, my response would be "who cares". There are much more important things to deal with over here than Iran's leader. From a political standpoint, I see it as a mistake on their part. Getting yourself a fancy new jet in the wake of what has been going on with the Arab spring might not be such a great idea.

I'm glad the Germans could find a buyer and maybe even got overpaid. Hopefully they knew the fix was in and put a phantom bidder in to get every last euro out of the syndicate.


User currently offlinelh526 From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 2379 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (3 years 6 days ago) and read 11062 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting aero145 (Reply 19):
Could you care to elaborate on that one?

Germany sold the plane to an unnamed investment company from eastern europe. This company submitted the highest bid. Rumor has it that this company is part of the same middleman-company that sold 3 ex UA B744 to Iran.



Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
User currently offlinesunilgupta From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 784 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (3 years 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 10520 times:

Quoting lh526 (Reply 17):
Quoting keuleatr72 (Thread starter):
Former German Air Force Airbus Sold - To Iran

Wrong! The A310 has been sold to a company, the highest bidder of the auction! THAT company sold it to Iran and is to blame, not germany!

Why is he wrong? He said "Former German Air Force"... not "Germany sold it to Iran"...

Just for the record: if I, as an American company, knowingly sell something that is embargoed or sanctioned to a "3rd party" knowing full well it will end up in the wrong hands, I will spend time in jail - it is US Law and it is clear. I can't comment on how that law applies to this case because the airplane (which I just saw two days ago in KBP!) wasn't sold by an American company; however, I am making this comment in response to some of the comments above.

Sunil


User currently offlineqantas747flyer From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (3 years 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 10436 times:

Quoting lh526 (Reply 22):
Rumor has it that this company is part of the same middleman-company that sold 3 ex UA B744 to Iran.

That would be these folks:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ns-from-trading-with-Iranians.html

http://www.politico.com/blogs/laurar...ty_to_selling_US_747s_to_Iran.html


25 Post contains images lh526 : He is wrong because he said that the Airbus, formerly belonging to the German Air Force has been sold to Iran, that's wrong because the former German
26 Post contains images Larshjort : The Airbus is still a former Luftwaffe aircraft, and it will always be a former Luftwaffe aircraft Until it's broken up. /Lars
27 777STL : You could try being a little less.....abrupt. I also don't see how what he said was wrong. It was an ex German AF 310 and it was sold to Iran - I fai
28 kanban : the sale to the investment company did not change the a/c lineage... if Iran now sells it to Bhutan, it's still a former German Air Force plane.
29 PanHAM : we might as well settle on the fact that it really is a former Interflug A310 which was "inherited" by the Federal Republic of Germany and afterwards
30 qantas747flyer : Out of curiosity is this fitted with US made engines?
31 WestJet747 : Due diligence is a significant step in the procurement-sales process. LH and the German Airforce have a good idea where the aircraft are headed as th
32 Post contains links keuleatr72 : Here is a link in english. From "Spiegel online": http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,798973,00.html For the record: The Airbus A310 is t
33 777way : Finally.
34 ikramerica : Convient but not necessarily true. 13 LH birds are already with Mahan. Terms of sale could be such that the aircraft may not be resold to an embargoe
35 aero145 : Meine Güte, even IF “Germany” would’ve sold their Luftwaffe’bus to Iran, it wouldn’t have been Germany giving the Iranian Air Force an air
36 Post contains links and images falstaff : I wonder if it was the aircraft that carried my 1st day cover. I think IF only had 3 A310s so the chances are good.
37 rjm777ual : I'm gonna miss this bird at KIAD (Dulles)!!
38 something : I just read in a German paper that the CEO of ''VEBEG'' Uwe Schade claims he ''didn't know'' who bought the airplane. The contract was signed by a com
39 Viscount724 : GE and P&W engines were the only engines available on the A300/310.
40 irshava : Lol... only Ukrainians can do this... :P
41 qantas747flyer : Wouldn't that pose export problems to Iran? - I believe current regulations specify that the current limit is 10% US parts being allowed on aircraft
42 PanHAM : As far as Germany is concerned, the aircraft was exported to the Ukraine. Neither the Ukraine nor Russia or other CIS countries observe US and UN sanc
43 Post contains links qantas747flyer : At the time of sale I believe that the German vendor (in compliance with international trade regulations) would have requested the "end user" details
44 PanHAM : I mentioned before that it is the buyers obligation to apply for an export license, should one be required. A quick check tells me that at least for t
45 beeweel15 : So that means that all the companies that do business with Saudi Arabia, China, Eastern Europe and countries friendly to Iran their CEO's should be i
46 777way : I dont think they bought them, nor does the link state that either.
47 qantas747flyer : We need to consider to intent of the purchase - i.e. if the intent of listing the "Ukrainian start-up" as the end-user was simply to side-step sancti
48 Post contains links qantas747flyer : There are lots of ways of looking at it - it could even be said that they stole the aircraft (see Wikipedia quote below) so lets not split hairs. Suf
49 777way : ^ Perhaps they did, could the reason too for repainting them in Mahan livery eventually.
50 PanHAM : it was an assumption since we will not be able to look into the documentation which is data protected. They could as well have said that thze aircraf
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