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AA Makes A319 And A321 Selection Official  
User currently offlineAAIL86 From Finland, joined Feb 2011, 400 posts, RR: 3
Posted (2 years 5 months 9 hours ago) and read 23746 times:

No real surprise here as this had been widely speculated here and elsewhere. Still, interesting to see the progression of this order.


AMERICAN STRENGTHENS FLEET PERFORMANCE AND EFFICIENCY



American today announced another milestone in its fleet transformation plans by selecting the Airbus A319 and A321 variants to be a part of its A320 family fleet order, which was announced in July 2011. These new aircraft, which American expects to begin taking delivery of starting in 2013, build upon the airline's efforts to enhance its fleet in order to be more fuel efficient and provide customers with a state-of-the-art travel experience.

The A319 aircraft will be powered by the CFM56-5B engine from CFM International, a joint venture between General Electric and Snecma. The A321 aircraft will be equipped with V2500-A5 engines from International Aero Engines (IAE), a joint venture between Pratt & Whitney, Rolls-Royce, MTU and JAEC. These engines were selected to enhance the operational performance and fuel efficiency of American's new Airbus fleet. The Airbus A320 family aircraft offer a 35 percent reduction in fuel cost per seat versus the MD-80 and a 12 percent and 15 percent fuel cost reduction per seat, respectively, versus the 757 and 767-200.

These 130 current-generation A319 and A321 aircraft are fully financed through lease transactions. The financial terms and conditions of the CFM56-5B and V2500-A5 engine purchase have not been disclosed.

As announced in July 2011, American plans to take delivery of 130 current-generation aircraft from the Airbus A320 family starting in 2013. American exercised its rights to convert its delivery positions to the A319 and A321 variants.

Beginning in 2017, American expects to begin taking delivery of 130 aircraft from the A320neo (New Engine Option) family featuring next-generation technology. The new aircraft are about 15 percent more fuel efficient than today's models. American is scheduled to be the first network airline in the U.S. to deploy this new technology. Engine selection for the A320neo family aircraft will be made in the future.

The Airbus aircraft feature cabin interiors with increased overhead storage, reduced noise and ambient lighting options.

American is also strengthening its Boeing fleet, with plans to acquire 200 additional aircraft from the 737 family, with options for another 100 737 family aircraft. As part of the Boeing agreement, American plans to take delivery of 100 aircraft from Boeing's current 737NG family starting in 2013, including three 737-800 options that had been exercised as of July 1, 2011. American also expects to acquire 100 of Boeing's next-generation 737 MAX aircraft, which will be powered by CFM International LEAP-1B engines. The new-engine variant is expected to have 10 to 12 percent lower fuel burn than current 737s.

American's most recent deliveries of the 737-800, with 160 seats, include the all-new Boeing Sky Interior, offering larger overhead bins that pivot down and out similar to those on the Boeing 787 Dreamliner, a contemporary feeling of spaciousness, and variable LED lighting options for cabin ambience.

American has plans to acquire 42 state-of-the-art 787 Dreamliners, which are currently scheduled to be delivered starting in late 2014. The Company also has firm orders for 15 777 widebody aircraft, which are scheduled for delivery in 2012 through 2016.

Source: American Airlines


The plural form of aircraft is * aircraft *
60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29689 posts, RR: 84
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 9 hours ago) and read 23778 times:
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So A319-100 and A321-200s bracketing their large 737-800 fleet. Makes sense, frankly.

Then A319-100neo, A321-200neo and 737-8 down the road?


User currently offlinedsuairptman From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 877 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 8 hours ago) and read 23444 times:

Any early word on the seating config for the 319 and 321


GEAUX SAINTS!
User currently offlinelax777lr From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 8 hours ago) and read 23405 times:

A321 is now all but certain to be the transcon 762 replacement

User currently offlinedeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 23210 times:

ANyword on the IFE for the AIrbuses? I.E. ptvs, pop down LCDs or nothing?

User currently offlineROSWELL41 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 23140 times:

Interesting that they chose cfm engines for the a319 and iae engines for the 321. Anyone know why?

User currently offlineAAIL86 From Finland, joined Feb 2011, 400 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 23053 times:

Quoting lax777lr (Reply 3):
A321 is now all but certain to be the transcon 762 replacement

Looking like that could be a possibility.

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 4):
ANyword on the IFE for the AIrbuses? I.E. ptvs, pop down LCDs or nothing?

They're almost certainly going to be fitted out like the new 738s, WiFi and powerports. If AA decides to use a 321 subfleet for transcon routes, those would no doubt get IFE in the premium cabins and perhaps in Y.



The plural form of aircraft is * aircraft *
User currently offlinelesismore From United States of America, joined May 2007, 142 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 22732 times:

Quoting lax777lr (Reply 3):
A321 is now all but certain to be the transcon 762 replacement

I will miss those 762's. I am curious and interested as to how AA will configure their A321's (three-class, lie-flat in B/F, MRTC a la UA p.s., personal IFE). Exciting times ahead for AA!



I'm a success today because I had a friend who believed in me and I didn't have the heart to let him down. - Abe Lincoln
User currently offlinewarreng24 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 705 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 22712 times:

Quoting AAIL86 (Thread starter):
The A319 aircraft will be powered by the CFM56-5B engine from CFM International, a joint venture between General Electric and Snecma. The A321 aircraft will be equipped with V2500-A5 engines from International Aero Engines (IAE), a joint venture between Pratt & Whitney, Rolls-Royce, MTU and JAEC.

Any ideas why the split engine order?

I would have thought that given an already sizeable fleet of CFM-powered 738's (and now CFM-powered A319's), AA would have also gotten CFM-powered A321's.


User currently offlinedtw757 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1528 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 22587 times:

source American Airlines

Quoting warreng24 (Reply 8):
Any ideas why the split engine order?

Based on the respective strengths of each engine, financial considerations and American's operational requirements, AA has elected to dual source the engines for the Airbus A320 Classic aircraft fleet. The CFM56-5B/7 engines will benefit the A319 from fuel savings and provide operating cost advantages versus our current narrowbody fleet. Additionally, the V2533 engines for the A321 offer fuel and operating cost advantages that will benefit the variety of markets that the aircraft will serve.

Source American Airlines



721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,388,146,CR2,7,ERJ,
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5106 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 22449 times:

Quoting dtw757 (Reply 9):
Based on the respective strengths of each engine, financial considerations and American's operational requirements, AA has elected to dual source the engines for the Airbus A320 Classic aircraft fleet. The CFM56-5B/7 engines will benefit the A319 from fuel savings and provide operating cost advantages versus our current narrowbody fleet. Additionally, the V2533 engines for the A321 offer fuel and operating cost advantages that will benefit the variety of markets that the aircraft will serve.

Translated into English, I expect this means AA likes the CFM's fuel and maintenance cost advantages for the A319 application, but appreciates the V2500's additional grunt in the A321 application. This is a big enough fleet of aircraft that splitting the engine order shouldn't cause any trouble.



Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3945 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 20543 times:
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Quoting dtw757 (Reply 9):
Based on the respective strengths of each engine, financial considerations and American's operational requirements, AA has elected to dual source the engines for the Airbus A320 Classic aircraft fleet. The CFM56-5B/7 engines will benefit the A319 from fuel savings and provide operating cost advantages versus our current narrowbody fleet. Additionally, the V2533 engines for the A321 offer fuel and operating cost advantages that will benefit the variety of markets that the aircraft will serve.
Quoting warreng24 (Reply 8):
Any ideas why the split engine order?

I would have thought that given an already sizeable fleet of CFM-powered 738's (and now CFM-powered A319's), AA would have also gotten CFM-powered A321's.

The A321 received new engines several years ago when they updated the A321 with better and increased performance/range. US was one of the first to receive these new A321s which are vital to their PHL transcon routes as well as out of their PHX hub. If they hadn't updated the A321 with these more powerful engines, the A321 would have continued to struggle to perform the required transcons from PHL/CLT.

Quoting lesismore (Reply 7):

I will miss those 762's. I am curious and interested as to how AA will configure their A321's (three-class, lie-flat in B/F, MRTC a la UA p.s., personal IFE). Exciting times ahead for AA!

I will also miss the 762s. I have flown on plenty of them. In the end, they served very specific markets.

AA will have to be very careful about how the configure the new A321s if they are to be used on their Flagship JFK-LAX/SFO routes. I don't see how they will be able to fly those birds on a transcon nonstop fitted with First Suites, specialized J seat units. Y won't be the issue, it will be the premium cabins. It will be interesting to see what they do.

I think we'll see AA open routes like LAX-BDL up with the A319s as they will be more economical to operate with fewer passengers over the 757/738.


User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1828 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 20358 times:

I'm still a little surprised that AA has gone with the A319. Shortened, higher CASM models like the A319 haven't been a popular trend lately. It feels like an obligatory smaller-capacity plane order rather than the best economical move.

User currently offlineATL From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 20033 times:

Those AA birds should look great with the American Stripe livery. I gotta say though, their decision to go for Airbus was a huge shocker to me, and it's still so hard to believe. If AA wasn't in such financial trouble, would they have picked an all Boeing order? I feel as if this new opening to airbus was due to AMR feeling like they needed to do something drastic to cut down fuel costs, such as switching to a whole new breed of airliners by getting A32XNEO aircrafts.

User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3038 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 19360 times:

Quoting ATL (Reply 13):
I feel as if this new opening to airbus was due to AMR feeling like they needed to do something drastic to cut down fuel costs, such as switching to a whole new breed of airliners by getting A32XNEO aircrafts.

Yeah something really drastic like making a sound business decision.



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5106 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 19222 times:

Quoting ATL (Reply 13):
this new opening to airbus was due to AMR feeling like they needed to do something drastic to cut down fuel costs, such as switching to a whole new breed of airliners by getting A32XNEO aircrafts.

Substitute "such as replacing the MD-80 fleet as fast as possible, faster than either maker could do it alone" and you'd be on the right track.



Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3945 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 18588 times:
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Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 12):
I'm still a little surprised that AA has gone with the A319. Shortened, higher CASM models like the A319 haven't been a popular trend lately. It feels like an obligatory smaller-capacity plane order rather than the best economical move.

You're correct in some aspects, but at the same time, you'll find an a/c like the A319 will have better economics than the A320s in markets such as LAX-BDL, or LAX-YUL where the demand doesn't dictate a 160+ seat a/c and where you can fly nonstop versus having to divert for fuel with strong headwinds going westbound in the Fall/Winter. In other words, it's a good a/c for thin, longer routes.


User currently offlineferminbrif From Venezuela, joined Dec 2010, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 3 hours ago) and read 18494 times:

Quoting lax777lr (Reply 3):
A321 is now all but certain to be the transcon 762 replacement


Somehow that´s right but there´s nothing as good as traveling in a wide body because narrow body planes when crowded seems to be kinda claustrophobic.
It seems to me that fuel efficiency is the most important issue


User currently offlineNWAROOSTER From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1011 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 2 hours ago) and read 17927 times:
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Due to American Airlines precarious financial position, Airbus must be willing to take the risk of selling aircraft to struggling American Airlines.
Airbus must figure it is worth the risk to gain another United States airline.   


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 2 hours ago) and read 17613 times:

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 18):

Due to American Airlines precarious financial position, Airbus must be willing to take the risk of selling aircraft to struggling American Airlines.
Airbus must figure it is worth the risk to gain another United States airline.   

There has to be something built in to protect Airbus. I'm not anti-AA, but they are in a baaaad situation and it would be stupid for Airbus to not have something planned



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9838 posts, RR: 96
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months ago) and read 16644 times:
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Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 18):
Due to American Airlines precarious financial position, Airbus must be willing to take the risk of selling aircraft to struggling American Airlines.

I'm not sure quite how you managed to miss the large quantity of Boeings also on order here in the OP.......

Seems Boeing are willing to take the risk too...

Rgds


User currently offlineirelayer From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 1073 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months ago) and read 16176 times:

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 10):
Translated into English, I expect this means AA likes the CFM's fuel and maintenance cost advantages for the A319 application, but appreciates the V2500's additional grunt in the A321 application. This is a big enough fleet of aircraft that splitting the engine order shouldn't cause any trouble.

Aren't airframe and engine purchases financed separately? Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if they got really good incentives to just split everything, in bulk (hence the split between the two engines, and the split between the two narrowbody aircraft families). With such a stupendously massive order I think everyone wanted a slice of the bank's money.

It's funny...just a few years ago the name of the game was fleet standardization and rationalization. Now it seems to be the opposite. Whether through mergers or new aircraft purchases, everyone is ordering 787 and A350, 747-8 and A380, 737MAX and A320NEO.

-IR


User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1917 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 16069 times:

I am scratching my head about why AA wants the A319. I mean it has less seats for about the same fuel burn. It seems like it would have a higher CASM than a 320.... I mean is the plan just to use them on thin routes that need really good take off performance... like some of the Central and South America routes out of MIA?

User currently offlineakizidy214 From Jamaica, joined Sep 2006, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 15318 times:

I can think of a slew of routes that the A319 can be used on while taking advantage of less seats to maximize .

DFW-MCI,IND, SAL, OMA, HSV, CLE, CCS

ORD - PDX, IAH, DCA - Im not familiar with this market but it seems ORD and DFW will get a majority

MIA- SEA, AUS, SAN, PIT.

Just a few off the top of my head and Im sure some CRJ routes could go 319 vs CRJ.



DCA
User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2497 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 14364 times:

What is the breakdown of A319's and A321's? The original order was for 130 A320 "family" aircraft, without specifying subtypes. Will there be any A320's at all or will the 738 take over that size class exclusively?

Quoting AAIL86 (Thread starter):
The A319 aircraft will be powered by the CFM56-5B engine from CFM International, a joint venture between General Electric and Snecma. The A321 aircraft will be equipped with V2500-A5 engines from International Aero Engines (IAE),

How odd, with a large A319 & 738 CFM fleet one would not have expected IAE in there. However it is often said that CFM56 does better on short haul while the IAE V2500 is better on longer routes. So this seems to be the confirmation that the A321s will be doing transcons, and AA thinks the efficiency advantage of the V2500 on longer sectors outweighs the maintenance commonality advantage of having a single engine type. Interesting...


25 Post contains images DALCE : LH has the same engine choices for their 32S fleets. 319/320 are CFM powered whereas the 321 has the IAE's under the wings. *Perhaps they just copied
26 jimbobjoe : I should think that risk is small to non-existent. Considering that there is a wait for narrow body jets now going into the 3-4 year range (at least)
27 Stitch : Indications Boeing were not, but when Airbus made AA a deal that looks to take into account an AA bankruptcy reorganization filing, Boeing had little
28 Post contains images mafi29 : Is there any information how these 130 A319 and A321 are divided between the two types? More A319 or more A321? I would expect more A319 as they'll se
29 AAExecPlat : Really? Mind ponying up a source for your claim that Boeing was not interested in bidding? My understanding was that they didn't know there was an or
30 seabosdca : The V2500 also has a higher maximum thrust rating. They may be expecting to use these birds out of LGA, DCA, or other runway-challenged airports, and
31 norcal : This is part of a larger negotiation with the APA to establish a B-scale (lower pay scale) for A319 aircraft all the way down to CRJ-700s to be flown
32 ThePinnacleKid : Sound sound strategy in my opinion.. as much as I dislike the idea of mainline @ regional pay levels... and detest regionals in general (even as a re
33 TOMMY767 : Probably nothing exciting. I can't see Y getting personal monitors when the newer 738s just get drop down LCDs. It still will probably be a better of
34 Post contains images AAIL86 : AA has a lot of pumping to do to right the ship. The A319 may not be the perfect "pump" but it's certainly a good chioce and an improvement over the
35 imiakhtar : That is incorrect. The CFM on the A321 has slightly higher thrust ratings than the V2500 (32000lbs vs 31600lbs).
36 Stitch : It was in the flurry of aerospace periodical and blog posts that were made after AA, Airbus and Boeing made the announcement. I do not have a direct
37 Post contains links MoltenRock : No, you're incorrect. He was right. The V2533-A5 which American Airlines selected have 32,800 lbs. of max thrust. http://www.flightglobal.com/directo
38 yyz717 : Given that AA has now chosen the A319, it begs the question why not the 73G for the same mission? Anyway, any word on the mix of 319 and 321 within th
39 Stitch : I expect a better overall deal from Airbus. That they added 737-800s and not A320-200s implies it was not an issue with slot availability on Boeing's
40 Post contains images scbriml : While the 738 betters the A320 on shorter missions, it's interesting that Boeing never compare the 73G to the A319 nor the 739 to the A321. There mus
41 Post contains images NWAROOSTER : Just for the record. American Airlines has received all the 737-800s it ordered, about 164, except for one yet to be delivered. I still stand by my s
42 seabosdca : Eh? You have missed the last two 737 orders (35 in July 2010, 100 in July 2011). Check Boeing's Orders and Deliveries site if you don't believe me. 3
43 MSPNWA : Oh, I agree that there are still routes where an A319 would work very well. It's just with the current fuel cost situation those routes have become f
44 Post contains links imiakhtar : I got my numbers from the type certificate data sheets and cross-checked the numbers between EASA and the FAA. There is no mention of a 32,800lbs IAE
45 Stitch : It seems perfectly reasonable to me that it was one of the factors and certainly one of the selling points Airbus pitched, along with the financing.
46 Post contains links MoltenRock : And yet both on the manufacturer's site and Pagesuite they have the V2533-A5 listed at 32,000 lbs. of thrust. Hmmm.... odd. In any event the V2533-A5
47 Post contains images astuteman : According to the OP.. No matter. You stand by your statement if you want. Indeed Rgds
48 Post contains links and images imiakhtar : Perhaps shockingly, If you are a pedant for numbers, the engine specs on the engine OEM websites are usually the least reliable and often misleading
49 gemuser : Maybe, maybe not. The TCDS reflect the certification position NOW. IAE is selling engines to fly in 2013/14, whoses to say the won't say 32,000lb WHE
50 seabosdca : I stand corrected; I saw the 32.8 number in a variety of places and assumed it was good. But I'm still confused. My memory is that US also went with
51 Post contains images imiakhtar : I don't know. All the recent developments in the IAE program (SelectOne, SelectTwo and most significantly RR sell-off) suggest to me a slow whittling
52 MoltenRock : I agree with you. Even if the CFM does outperform the IAE's by your sources of 1% difference, it ended up not being enough to offset the fuel efficie
53 Post contains images etops1 : Sounds like they just ordered a boat load of airbuses for USAirways
54 MoltenRock : LOL! I suppose, but as the AA CEO said, saving 35% on the Mad Dogs is a huge fuel delta, that will more than pay for itself given the fuel, maintenan
55 Post contains images AA767400 : Make that for American Airlines, since the name US Airways would be good as dead. I mean who on your island knows about US Airways? It's all about br
56 SCL767 : MIA-UIO is a cargo intensive route for AA and I truly doubt that AA would deploy the A-319s on the MIA-UIO route.
57 MoltenRock : I see no reason why USAirways would be interested in buying AA. Frankly, if USAirways was going to buy someone it would be JetBlue, or the Frontier o
58 AA767400 : But the 757 really doesn't have that much more cargo lift. If it were cargo heavy, why not deploy a 763 like GYE? We shall see what comes to fruition
59 SCL767 : The B752s can carry more cargo than the A-319s. Also, Ecuadorians tend to travel heavy and the A-319s are not suited for both, especially on that rou
60 Post contains images etops1 : I see no reason why USAirways would be interested in buying AA. Frankly, if USAirways was going to buy someone it would be JetBlue, or the Frontier op
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Could AA Drop Coke And Go Pepsi Exclusive? posted Fri Jan 15 2010 12:15:01 by 1337Delta764