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Thomas Cook In Trouble  
User currently offlinescouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3364 posts, RR: 9
Posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 22338 times:

It seems that Thomas Cook is in discussions with banks about a further extension of its overdraft:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15832438

Shares are down 75% this morning - this could be a big bakcrupcy if they go over the edge!

80 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinefaro From Egypt, joined Aug 2007, 1515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 22279 times:

Wow, 75% is dramatic and may mean that the market is discounting their ability to continue as a going concern. Normally such drops are seen in cases of accounting irregularities where the maximum loss is an uncertainty and may push a company over the edge.

Hope they can secure that facility quickly and try to improve business...

Faro



The chalice not my son
User currently offlinefaro From Egypt, joined Aug 2007, 1515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 22235 times:

Things are looking better; financing has been secured:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/15399990

Faro



The chalice not my son
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3274 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 21938 times:

According to SkyNews Thomas Cook is also looking to unload their interest in the ATC company in the UK that could raise £60MM


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlinescouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3364 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 21817 times:

Quoting faro (Reply 2):
Things are looking better; financing has been secured:

Unfortunately this is a report from 3 weeks ago when they got their last £100m - they need the same again already  


User currently offlineWorldliner From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 275 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 21511 times:

Its never nice to see a company in this kind of mess, especially because so many people will already of booked holidays with thomas cook because of their high street travel agents.

Although i have to say this comes as no surprise, simply because every time me or somebody i know has flown with thomas cook, we have had significant 5 hour+ delays there and back. Their aircraft seem to constantly be in maintenance and all you get is a £5 voucher. i know british tour operators are usually poor and unfortunately thomas cook is no exception.

I hope they get things together and dont go into bankruptcy, but personally i can see why they are in this mess.



@777Worldliner
User currently offlineacelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 814 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 21400 times:

Well reading the BBC news link, it suggests the problems are more with the Belguim/French parts?
While I don´t disagree about some of the delays, its also quite common to see their flights arriving
early, certainly from some of the less delay prone airports like BRS and CWL etc.

Where does Condor fit into this?

cheers



from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlinefly2yyz From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1029 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 21384 times:

So this would only be the uk arm that's in trouble correct??? Would this have any impact on say for instance Thomas Cook Canada .?

User currently offlineparapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1509 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 21294 times:

I also noted that their main rival TUI's shares had dropped over 60% from their high this year.IE The same amount.

Europe is going into the double dip that much is now certain.The US does not look much better.

The boss of Ryan air predicted alot of blood on the carpet over 2 years ago.I cannot see how these 2 companies will be able to keep going in their present form/structure if the holiday market across Europe (outbound) collapses further - which I feel it must.

Shedding fixed costs would be the only way to survive - Couple of airlines anyone?


User currently offlineNavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1144 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 21096 times:

Quoting faro (Reply 2):
Things are looking better; financing has been secured:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/15399990

Faro

Are things really better? It seems the problems are solved in very short term only. With this financining they will not go bankrupt right now it seems. But if they continue to show losses they will soon be there again. What is really the trouble here? Is it only the unrest in Egypt? I thought they had been in trouble many years. Is that the case?

It seems TUI is in much better shape.



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User currently offlinebj87 From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 21029 times:

Well the holiday market in Europe is getting worse by the month. I read an article in the paper this morning about the lack of winter holiday bookings. Also there is a lack of snow at the large resorts at the moment which isn't helping much either. Then there is the unrest in Egypt (which if I am not mistaken is one of the larger destinations for Thomas Cook)

That combined with increased costs i.e. fuel. taxes and what not makes for a rather toxic environment to work in with large and small ACMI and charter operators going belly up left and right. At the moment there is way more capacity available on the market than that is needed.

Quoting parapente (Reply 8):
The boss of Ryan air predicted alot of blood on the carpet over 2 years ago.

I hate admitting it but I would agree with him.

So far Denim Air, Amsterdam Airlines and now Astraeus have gone belly up.
Martinair (what used to be the holiday airline) got it's passenger division axed by KLM (although this wasn't solely due to lack of business it is still a reduction in available capacity as KLM and Transavia did not take over every route)
Ryanair is parking dozens of planes this winter.

Don't know about Easyjet, TUI, Transavia, Monarch or Thomas Cook's winter plans but this blood bath is only just getting started in my opinion.


User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 20835 times:

Damn it would be really bad if TCX goes! If they did go, TOM and ZB would get all their old routes I suppose...


3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
User currently offlineAPYu From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 20811 times:

It may be just what Monarch needs.

The Directors making announcements that bookings are safe will set alarm bells ringing in the minds of the general public. It could make bookings drop off a cliff even further.



We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 20762 times:

Also does anyone think that TOM would take any of the TCX 757's???


3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
User currently offlineNavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1144 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 20556 times:

Quoting bj87 (Reply 10):
Well the holiday market in Europe is getting worse by the month.

In some areas of Europe it is maybe getting worse but not in Scandinavia. Travel is still booming and TUIfly Nordic is at least doing very well indeed. The travelagencies like Fritidsresor etc are also doing very well still. However Thomas Cook Airlines Scandinavia and their travelagency Ving owned by troubled Thomas Cook are lagging behind in the competition. You can see on the planes that they are in financial stress. Planes are very dirty and it seems that TUIfly Nordic and Novair are doing better but perhaps we need more inside information to do further analysis about that. Anyway the TUI group is still doing very well also right now in Scandinavia.



747-400/747-200/L1011/DC-10/DC-9/DC-8/MD-80/MD90/A340/A330/A300/A310/A321/A320/A319/767/757/737/727/HS-121/CV990/CV440/S
User currently offlineAPYu From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 819 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 20412 times:

Quoting LGWflyer (Reply 13):
Also does anyone think that TOM would take any of the TCX 757's???

No, they are getting rid of loads this winter and taking around 8 new 737s. Its definately a fleet they are looking to get rid of, but I guess for emergency purposes if they need short term capacity to take on some TCX work then they might



We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5080 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 20273 times:

What long haul routes does Thomas Cook still operate EX UK?

User currently offlineGiancavia From Vatican City, joined Feb 2010, 1303 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 19951 times:

Quoting LGWflyer (Reply 13):
Also does anyone think that TOM would take any of the TCX 757's???

Thomson is actually shedding 757's.

I wonder how much the green taxes are burdening these UK airlines compared to Euro counterparts.


User currently offlineLGW340 From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 19862 times:

Quoting anstar (Reply 16):
What long haul routes does Thomas Cook still operate EX UK?

From LGW a few of them are varipos places in Canada, Kingston, Orlando Sanford and possible Cancun?



Live life from the window seat...
User currently offlinevirginblue4 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 889 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 19807 times:

I hate to even ask this, but what are the chances of TCX going bust?


The amazing tale of flight.
User currently offlineacelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 814 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 19682 times:

No idea, but its ok borrowing money, but some stage its going to have to be paid back right?
Reading how the BBC reported this, the hole is just getting bigger and bigger.
I sure hope they don´t go, not going to help anyone and with the run up to Christmas.....



from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlineNavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1144 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 19384 times:

Quoting Giancavia (Reply 17):
I wonder how much the green taxes are burdening these UK airlines compared to Euro counterparts.

I think the state of the leisure travelling market is worse in the UK now than in other european countries right now. It has probably mostly to do with the state of the economy in the UK and private spending. At least in the nordic countries the situation seems to be pretty normal and leisure travel is still expanding and the sector is healthy. I do not know about Germany but perhaps they have a recession like in the UK but not as bad I think.



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User currently offlineshed360 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2008, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 19193 times:

I am worried as I work for a company in the UK that does a lot of work for TCX inc cleaning & de-icing etc. I can't see the banks chucking more money at them. How will it get/look any better for next year? In the UK Thomson, Monarch, Jet2, EZY & RYR etc I'm sure fill in some of the gaps if TCX go under? The shorthaul market is dead for the old travel company airlines. It will be a sad day if they do go. Grim times ahead for all I think?  

[Edited 2011-11-22 07:49:52]


Slow,fat, and ugly but I love 'em - Long live the Shed!
User currently offlineNavigator From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 1144 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 18959 times:

Quoting shed360 (Reply 22):
How will it get/look any better for next year? In the UK Thomson, Monarch, Jet2, EZY & RYR etc I'm sure fill in some of the gaps if TCX go under? The shorthaul market is dead for the old travel company airlines. It will be a sad day if they do go.

There is a restructuring going on with Ryanair and Easyjet taking a larger portion of the market that once belonged to Thomson, Monarch etc. Internet makes it easy for everyone took book flights, hotels etc separately even when going to leisure destinations like Malaga etc.



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User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 18870 times:

The UK airline charter market is over-crowded for next summer. All we need is Monarch and Thomson to meet demand.

British industry only has itself to blame. You have to employ people and you have to have added value to any product you sell.

It's a shame to lose another airline, but if we must.


25 shed360 : Hi Navigator I get that. What i am getting at is the market can now do without TCX and this will help the others until the low costs do finally wrap u
26 Navigator : I think TCX is so large so it will probably be restructured, (divided?), and perhaps sold before going under. I think there is still room for the ser
27 anstar : I heard they had cut back the canada flights for next eyar but not sure if that was true.
28 PanHAM : In Germany, Thomas Cook as well as Condor are still doing fine and we do not have a recession here either. For the two companies however, it is not go
29 acelanzarote : Cannot believe you wrote that, sure you would not be saying this if you worked for TCX.... unreal
30 Navigator : One way to save parts of Thomas Cook could be to sell the German and Scandinavian parts that are still making money and then restructure the UK part?
31 Tobias2702 : To me, it rather looks like Thomas Cook has only been stayed afloat for so long because of the German/Scandinavian parts. Can't see anyone interested
32 photoshooter : Weird, I heard that Thomas Cook is doing well in Belgium although I think they need a long haul fleet, they're selling tickets to Mexico and Asia but
33 Navigator : I agree. But the next time the UK operation needs cash infusion the banks will probably say no. Like Pan Am when they sold off parts to survive the l
34 EuroWings : Unfortunately, I am not surprised that Thomas Cook UK is in trouble. The UK all-inclusive holiday market and charter flight market differs significant
35 chieft : I wonder if that might affect Thomas Cook and Condor in Germany...
36 picturethis : Some of you need to read the article when you are saying the UK market is the main factor for this at the present time, Direct from the link: "Winter
37 Giancavia : I was under the impression Monarch being a charter airline was coming to an end? Thought it was going all schedule. I hear you, But the extra taxes c
38 Post contains images Navigator : It does makes sense because they can cooperate with filling the larger plane needed and increase utilization. If it didnt make sense they would not d
39 planesailing : They operate to the bear minimum when it comes to welfare during disruption. The aircraft operate three sectors a day during the summer and there is
40 McG1967 : It is the Thomas Cook Group that has requested an additional loan from the banks due to the sharp downturn in trading in various business units of the
41 LHRFlyer : Sorry to say it but the press and TV coverage in the UK of today's announcement wil do nothing to instil confidence in the company. When the CEO appea
42 shed360 : LHRFlyer - sadly you are spot on a lot will be holding back booking or going elsewhere
43 kdhurst380 : No wonder really, I flew with them once and it was a dreadful experience. Aircraft are ancient, cabin crew couldn't be bothered... people think with t
44 virginblue4 : I have now flown with them 3 times all long-haul and have never had a problem with them. None of the flights were delayed, aircraft were nice and cust
45 awthompson : I would re-iterate, I recently took a Thomas Cook package holiday from Belfast to southern Turkey. The whole package was perfect from the booking expe
46 bennett123 : I went to Athens with Thomas Cook. I must say that I was not wholly impressed. They make a big play about their years of experience and knowledge of t
47 tcxdegsy : Let's not forget, before everyone circles like vultures... Thomas Cook Group is still poised to make approx £190m profit for the year. Tour Operator
48 tcxdegsy : This is simple to explain = it's called Vertical Integration and TC are unique in that it's a Travel Agency business that bought an operate an airlin
49 stasisLAX : Ever here in the US, this seems to be evident. USA3000 was the airline arm of Apple Vacations, and U5 has announced that it is ending all operations
50 FCAFLYBOY : Well I hope this can be survived by TC however it does not bode well for them unfortunately and IMO. Two things now go against their survival: 1- the.
51 AFGMEL : I am amazed that these tour operators are still going. With the power of the internet and an increasingly tech-savvy population, I can't see why they
52 Navigator : Ving travel agency in Sweden owned by Thomas Cook UK has come out with a public message saying that they are the most profitable company in the Thomas
53 Navigator : This is a typical European tradition that started in the 1950:s and is really not duplicated in many other places but maybe in Canada and the US. Typ
54 anstar : Unfortunately with all the press on the company being in trouble - its reputation and name will be damaged.
55 Navigator : I think so too. People do not want to lose money or a paid journey in a bankruptcy. In Sweden there is an insurance covering this when it comes to gr
56 Bralo20 : Well according to the last fiscal year (2009/2010) they booked a profit of 25 million EUR, a small increase compared to the previous fiscal year (200
57 rutankrd : In the UK there remains very important valid and (Added)value reasons to buy a true package that is ATOL bonded and underwritten. In event of failure
58 Post contains links picturethis : Thomas Cook shares bounce back after Tuesday's plunge http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15851461
59 APYu : But looking at the numbers involved its hardly cause for celebration - they 'bounced back' from 10p to around 13p???
60 Navigator : Sounds like a Thomas Cook advertisement. The business is not sound if they have not been able to put assets in the balance sheet to manage short term
61 danfearn77 : And that's the problem. They are selling holidays for absolute peanuts. In my local town the other day they had a deal, '£269 for 2 all inclusive fo
62 babyblueBHX : With the co-op merger I think you will find that the Thomas Cook needed the co-op more than the co-op needed Thomas Cook. There was I believe alot of
63 328JET : You mean the rumoured new "cooperation" of Lufthansa and Condor...? Some people expect TCX to sell Condor to Lufthansa again. What a strange move...
64 Navigator : TUI and Kuoni are other large travel groups besides Thomas Cook. I doubt a merger with either of those would be approved for competition reasons. And
65 PanHAM : I had the same thoughts. Just got thre weekly LH mail promoting special fares and first time i saw Condor on there. If not a sale, some special co-op
66 chieft : Condor does not fit in LHs strategy anymore, so it is ulikely that LH would take Condor back.
67 Post contains links VV701 : Here is an extract from the British Foreign Office's travel advice on Egypt that was last updated on 23 November, that is today: "There is a high thr
68 tcxdegsy : TC Group is Headquartered in Frankfurt, and Listed on the LSE. It's not a UK Company, it's a European Corporation It's already been categorised as "T
69 AFGMEL : I see that people consider that an advantage, but I am still a bit bewildered. That is why I have travel insurance which would cover me if an airline
70 danfearn77 : I completely agree with you, it is definitely driven by consumer demand. We expect 5* hotels and service for 3* prices. I Totally understand that its
71 Post contains links FCAFLYBOY : Not the best of news today either, if the Travel Trade lose faith in Cooks, then they may as well shut-up shop, and no one will want to sell an un-ins
72 VV701 : But this only applies to flight-only deals not to the bulk of TCX's business, IT packages. They will automatically be insured through ABTA. And if yo
73 kiwiandrew : I hope that you have read your policy wording carefully and are not just making assumptions. To the best of my knowledge very few travel insurance po
74 boeing4eva : Im a very regular user of Thomson,always have been,even when friends were using Thomas cook,and im talking a lot of people here.I would say 90 per cen
75 Post contains links rutankrd : New credit facility secured through to spring . Looks like they will have to do some quick restructuring in the next few weeks (Disposals and retrench
76 tcxdegsy : That's no-where near enough cover.. and frankly, bad advice. It only covers initial treatment. You should never travel abroad without suitable travel
77 rutankrd : Where did i say don't get travel insurance ! I was referring strictly to medical cover ! Did i not say insurance would be needed and recommended for
78 tcxdegsy : Take a chill pill - your message implied that insurance was not needed as much as it actually is, that's all
79 acelanzarote : A more interesting question might be- Where does Thomas Cook go from here? Suspect some changes will have to follow to avoid any more bail outs?
80 tcxdegsy : This insight may give some indication of the need for TC to complete a Warts & All revamp of the UK structure and strategy. Looks like disposals,
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