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BA 'To Fly To Serve' Crest - Which Aircraft?  
User currently offlinebdak From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 87 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9843 times:

BA have announced they are painting the 'To Fly To Serve' back on their aircraft. Which aircraft have been painted already? I have only seen G-BNLU with it. Is it planned that the entire fleet will be painted with the crest? If so, how quickly can we expect to see it applied?

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7390 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9522 times:

Quoting bdak (Thread starter):
Which aircraft have been painted already?

In addition to G-BNLU, another 744, G-BNLZ, was pictured carrying the crest in a BA Press Release dated 2 November. I guess that by now there are one or two more. But which ones?


Quoting bdak (Thread starter):
Is it planned that the entire fleet will be painted with the crest?

I assume each BA aircraft will receive the crest when it is next repainted. This may or may not apply to BA CityFlyer E-jets.

Quoting bdak (Thread starter):
If so, how quickly can we expect to see it applied?

G-BNLU was rolled out with the crest on 27 September. It was last repainted in May 2002. But in the interim it had spent from October 2009 to July 2011 out of service mostly parked up in the desert. So it had been in service with its previous paint job for 7 years 7 months.

G-BNLZ was rolled out with the crest on 31 October. It was previously repainted in April 2004. It has been in service except while undergoing maintenance ever since. So it has carried its previous paint job for 7 years 6 months.

77W G-STBD entered service after delivery from Boeing and cabin fitting out at CWL on 30 October.

Short haul unlike long haul aircraft operate more than a single rotation in a 24 hour period. Although they fly fewer hours per year they therefore spend more time flying at lower altitudes through the weather. So they generally require repainting more frequently.

Putting the above clues together would suggest that - assuming that the next new BA 77W, G-STBE, which is in the paint shop at PDX this very day, is painted with the crest - then we can guess that the last aircraft to receive the crest is likely to be G-STBD. And if there has been no significant improvement in paint technology over the last 7 or 8 years then it should need repainting at some time in the summer of 2019! If 'BE is rolled out in the next few days without the crest then it could be around the autumn of 2019 before it is repainted.

If paint technology has improved . . . Well, who knows?

[Most of the dates above are sourced from vaious editions of "Aviation Letter".]


User currently offlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9522 times:

I love the BA commercial using that crest/motto as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4JdQi60an0



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User currently offlineheebeegb From Finland, joined Sep 2007, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9413 times:

Bit of a joke really. in the ad about its painted on our aircraft, well it is now youve started doing it, not something that was already there.

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25005 posts, RR: 85
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9339 times:
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Terrific commercial for it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4JdQi60an0

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinecrownvic From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1864 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9159 times:

Although I have no inside info at BA, if is my opinion that the TFTS logo is more than likely a decal/wrap and is not painted on. It would seem this would be too tedious of an addition, if this were paint. I have noticed though, the application to aircraft has been quite slow and if it is a decal/wrap, one would think that more than 2 aircraft in the past two months would have had this application already.

User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7390 posts, RR: 17
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 1 day ago) and read 8683 times:

Quoting crownvic (Reply 5):
Although I have no inside info at BA, if is my opinion that the TFTS logo is more than likely a decal/wrap and is not painted on. It would seem this would be too tedious of an addition,


Perhaps. But both of the aircraft known to now carry the crest were definitely repainted.

G-BNLU was withdrawn from service on 12 September after arriving on a flight from JFK. It was rolled out at LHR on 27 September. In addition to the crest it was painter (or decaled?) with blue and red 'Dreamflight 25' titles on its upper fuselage. There were numerous other small differences in its new livery. For example instead of carrying the abbreviated registration 'LU' on the top rear of its tail, it was now painted 'NLU'. Another example are the vertical red alignment markers under each cabin door. On all photos of 'LU taken before 12 September their are only two, one each side of the door and positioned down against the lower blue fuselage. On all photos since 27 September there are three with a new marker added at the forward end of each cabin door and positioned higher right up under the door.

All major maintenance on BA's wide bodied aircraft is carried out at CWL. This particular aircraft had been ferried from VCV (after 17 months storage) to CWL where it arrived for a 'D' check and major cabin refurbishment on 31 March. It was returned to LHR over 13 weeks later on 8 July. So by September, having experienced no reported tech problems, it was most unlikely to need further major maintenance. But if it had it would have been returned to British Airways Maintenance Cardiff. However the BA paint shop is at LHR and is the most likely destination for any BA aircraft "grounded" at LHR for more than five days.

Here are before and after photos of this aircraft for comparison:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Robert Brady
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ben Wang



G-BNLZ was also very clearly repainted (and decaled?). It had carried special "Change for Good" titles and images on its nose since the early autumn of 2007. There is no photo of this aircraft on the a-net data base since it emerged from the BA paint shop on 31 October where it had been since 20 October after completing a flight from MIA.

However there is a photo on the BA web site of 'LZ. It is in its Press Release dated 2 November. The photo was taken two days after the aircraft re-entered service with a flight to BLR. It clearly shows the crest and the absence of the nose titles and images. However the similar minor changes to those of 'LU are obscured by ground equipment anf the weather on this particular photo:

http://press.ba.com/?p=1952

Nevertheless they are present on other photos taken of 'LZ since the beginning of November and posted elsewhere on the web.

Back in June 1998 BA carried out an experiment wherein the tail design, all titles and the BA Speedmarque were applied to 320, G-BUSI, with decals rather than paint. It was not a success. The aircraft re-entered the paint shoponly 50 weeks later (on 10 June 1999) and had the decals stripped off. The aircraft was then repainted in a totally different scheme.

It would be interesting to know whether, with advances in technology, BA are now making wider use of decals (other than for some temporary images). But unlike back in 1999 when they made a public announcement of the experiment, there has been no such announcement now and there can be little if any doubt that the two aircraft now known to carry the crest have been repainted.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3198 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 23 hours ago) and read 8489 times:

Actually the BA fleet is looking much cleaner than in recent years. One can see the progress in repainting the B744 fleet by the small number of aircraft with the last two on the fin versus the last three, there are a lot of very clean looking BA B744s at LHR these days. Noticeable that G-BNLZ in that photo is yet to be fitted with new First.

Did G-BNLU really go back into service without a respray after coming back from years in the desert sun? Red paint is clearly better than it used to be!


User currently offlineandz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8442 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 23 hours ago) and read 8207 times:
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Quoting mariner (Reply 4):
Terrific commercial for it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4JdQ...60an0

What a fabulous advert! Brilliant stuff.



After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlineSEA From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 21 hours ago) and read 7255 times:

BA have a video on YouTube detailing "To Fly, to Serve" and in the video it clearly shows that the crest is a decal.

User currently offlinejetblast From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1231 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 18 hours ago) and read 6082 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 1):
then we can guess that the last aircraft to receive the crest is likely to be G-STBD.

Maybe someone else can confirm, but I saw TBD on the technical block at Heathrow before entering service and it did not appear to have a coat of arms applied.



Speedbird Concorde One
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7390 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 18 hours ago) and read 5948 times:

Quoting jetblast (Reply 10):
Maybe someone else can confirm, but I saw TBD on the technical block at Heathrow before entering service and it did not appear to have a coat of arms applied.

I can confirm that it does not. This is why I said that if G-STBE, which is currently at PDX for paintinmg, emerges from the Boeing paint shop with the crest applied, then 'BD will be the most likely LAST BA aircraft to have the crest added to its livery, probably in about 2019.


User currently offlinemikey72 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 1780 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 18 hours ago) and read 5747 times:

BA should have the crest royal blue on white on the underbelly of their A380's... a la Emirates A380's.


Flying is like sex - I've never had all I wanted but occasionally I've had all I can stand.
User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3198 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 17 hours ago) and read 5254 times:

It should be easy to add on a hangar check......The "FLYING THE FLAG" logos were added sharpish and removed just as quickly.

User currently offlinejetblast From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 1231 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 16 hours ago) and read 5049 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 11):
I can confirm that it does not. This is why I said that if G-STBE, which is currently at PDX for paintinmg, emerges from the Boeing paint shop with the crest applied, then 'BD will be the most likely LAST BA aircraft to have the crest added to its livery, probably in about 2019.

Ah, I see what you mean - a shame, really. I'd like to see a longhaul 767 with it in the future to see it at my station...



Speedbird Concorde One
User currently offlinehotelmode From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 460 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 16 hours ago) and read 4832 times:

Quoting SEA (Reply 9):
BA have a video on YouTube detailing "To Fly, to Serve" and in the video it clearly shows that the crest is a decal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_G4MV_DG2Q 3 mins in. Clearly shows its painted on!


User currently offlineloggat From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 16 hours ago) and read 4763 times:

Quoting SEA (Reply 9):
BA have a video on YouTube detailing "To Fly, to Serve" and in the video it clearly shows that the crest is a decal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_G4MV_DG2Q

This is the video. If you go to 3:10 in the video, you will see them peeling off the template and then painting the silver/gray over the template to get the crest. It looks to me like they have just painted right over the white fuselage. Surely they don't have to repaint the whole plane to paint on the crest?



There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7390 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4192 times:

Quoting loggat (Reply 16):
It looks to me like they have just painted right over the white fuselage. Surely they don't have to repaint the whole plane to paint on the crest?


No. But is it not significantly lower cost to apply the crest when the aircraft is being repainted anyway than to specially take it out of service, tow it into the paint hangar, erect the scaffolding, paint on the crest and then remove the scaffolding for what is a relatively small even if important part of the livery?

With 235 aircraft - or 248 if we add in the CityFlyer E-jets - putting each aircraft through the paint shop to simply apply the crest would therefore incur a fairly hefty additional but probably unjustifiable cost.

Apart from special occasions yielding plenty of otherwise free publicity - like the last in-service BA 752 that was briefly operated in the BA Negus and Negus livery that the type initially wore back in 1982 - we need to go back to the wasteful pre-privatisation days of the 1980s. Then, for example, the titling on all aircraft was changed from 'British airways' to 'British' in around two years. Further just a little more than two years later the new Landor livery rapidly replaced the old Negus and Negus livery as part of activities preparing for the BA privatisation in February 1987.

Of course there is always an exception to any rule. And that was in 1992. Then 732s being transferred from the BA Main Line Fleet at LHR to the British Airways Regional Fleet had their former 'British Airways' titles replaced with either 'British Airways Birmingham' or 'British Airways Manchester' titles prior to transfer and not because the aircraft needed repainting. On the other hand in the period of 14 months between the formation of BA Connect at the start of February 2006 and its purchase by BE in late March 2007 only two of the fleet of ten Avro RJs were given 'BA CONNECT' titles. In both these instances the aircraft were totally repainted when those titles were applied.
.


User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3198 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4139 times:

There's a shot in the database of a BOAC liveried B747 with the BA tail and "British" titles.
Carried the name "Sir William Shakespeare" if I recall correctly.
One of the stupid things about image refreshes is it can take years. Look at Northwest in the 90s and United before the Continental merger. Indeed BA in the transition from Landor to Utopia looked a mess.

As I asked before, in the interim prior to repaint, surely a large decal would do the job nicely.


User currently offlineA388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9719 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4101 times:

Nice, I wasn'r aware of BA re-introducing the famous To-Fly-To-Serve Crest. I always liked it very much. It would have been nice if the Crest would be displayed in larger size as it is now as it isn't noticeable that much as I've seen so far on photos. In any case it is nice to see it back!!!

A388


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7390 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4068 times:

Quoting skipness1E (Reply 18):
There's a shot in the database of a BOAC liveried B747 with the BA tail and "British" titles.

The first 741 to be rolled out in full BA Negus and Negus livery was G-AWNN in November 1973. It was painted by Boeing before delivery to BA. However more than seven years later at the start of 1980 of the thirteen 741s already in service with BA at least four were still flying in BOAC fuselage livery with BA tail livery and titles. Not surprisingly these four aircraft were amongst the youngest at the time that BA was operationally formed on 1 September 1973.

G-AWNI was still painted this way as at 13 May 1980:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Steve Fitzgerald


but had been painted into full BA livery by the following August.

G-AWNK was pictured in the hybrid livery on 3 August 1980:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Johan Ljungdahl


and this was the aircraft named "William Shakespeare". It was sold to TW the following March being ferried out of LHR still in this hybrid livery on 31 March 1981.

G-AWNL was in the hybrid livery as late as 12 July 1980:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Udo K. Haafke


but was in full BA livery by July 1981.

A fourth aircraft in the hybrid livery in the early 1980s was G-AWNM. This was the last 741 to be delivered in BOAC livery. It was pictured as late as 24 October 1981 in the hybrid BA / BOAC livery:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Tim Rees


It might be not unreasonable to assume that the one aircraft in the above sequence not pictured, G-AWNJ, was also wearing the hybrid livery in 1980. However there are no photos on the database taken between those dated June 1976 (when it was wearing the hybrid livery) and March 1983 by when it had been repainted into the full BA livery.


User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3974 times:

Am the only one who thinks that the hybrid between BOAC and the Negus looks great?

And it did look a complete mess at LHR in the late 1990s when they were transitioning from the Landor colours to the World Tails. Particularly bad I remember was the sight of two 747s, one in Landor, the other in Animals and Trees (the bright green and pink Kalahari theme tail)


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3535 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3860 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 17):
Quoting loggat (Reply 16):
It looks to me like they have just painted right over the white fuselage. Surely they don't have to repaint the whole plane to paint on the crest?


No. But is it not significantly lower cost to apply the crest when the aircraft is being repainted anyway than to specially take it out of service, tow it into the paint hangar, erect the scaffolding, paint on the crest and then remove the scaffolding for what is a relatively small even if important part of the livery?

The clip shows a computer cut stencil being applied, and then the paint being applied using rollers. I would assume that as the paint isn't being sprayed this process doesn't have to be carried out in a paint hangar. It can probably be done any time a plane is due to spend a day under cover.


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