Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
UA/CO Future Of The 777 Fleet:  
User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2391 posts, RR: 9
Posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11092 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I'm a bit puzzled and lost to say the least, when it comes to the future of the merged 777 fleet:

- What's the fate (= bases and routes) of the ex-CO 77E fleet ? I understand they all have the new cabins Y and B.F

- Will all ex-UA 777 (thus PW powered) have the same product ? F, J, Y+ and Y ? Will there be a separate domestic product like for Hawaii flights ?

- Base of the ex-UA 777 fleet ?

- Are the newer J seats on UA777s similar to the B.F seats of the ex-CO fleet ?

- Are all UA 763ER with upgraded interiors right now ?

Thanks for helping me out  


Life is great at 41.000 feet...
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3617 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10845 times:

Well some of the pre-merger UA 777, are getting up in age. Most of their non ER 777 200s, are on there way to the 20+ years old mark, and may be seeing retirement by the end of the decade.

User currently offlinepolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2187 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10834 times:

Quoting Flying Belgian (Thread starter):

- Are the newer J seats on UA777s similar to the B.F seats of the ex-CO fleet ?

Yes. Not exactly the same but very similar.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Thread starter):
- Are all UA 763ER with upgraded interiors right now ?

All the international planes yes. The domestic ones are going to be receiving a new 2 class product (B.F. seats and economy with economy+) soon.


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10756 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 1):

UA got rid of a few 777s in BK. Were any of them of the 1995-1996 build?

Also UA had quite a few 777 deliveries up to and including the early 2000s.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10238 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 1):
Well some of the pre-merger UA 777, are getting up in age. Most of their non ER 777 200s, are on there way to the 20+ years old mark, and may be seeing retirement by the end of the decade.

That's very very unlikely. They'll have at least to 2025, they're all still in great shape. Then the very oldest will be 30.

Lets talk to the other points.

- There has been no establishment of what will be a 2 class or 3 class route, except you can clearly see some routes are being flown from EWR now on the 3 class metal. The 777 fleet will be one fleet, so there's no basing of certain planes in the way you mention.

- All of the ex-UA planes will be configured the same way, 3 class IPTE, as of right now. The Hawaii fleet likely won't change for now.

- This is the world's largest airline. There's no one base.

- The CO businessfirst seat and the UA IPTE J seat are almost identical in seat construction.

- All UA 3 class 763s are upgraded to IPTE. Some are already planned to serve Newark routes. The 2 class ones will be configured similarly to the CO 764s.

NS


User currently offlinetozairport From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 686 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10203 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 1):
Well some of the pre-merger UA 777, are getting up in age. Most of their non ER 777 200s, are on there way to the 20+ years old mark, and may be seeing retirement by the end of the decade.

Is this the new math or something? The first 777 was delivered on 5/15/95. I remember the day well because it's the day I got on the line at UAL. That is far less than "20+" years old. Please fact check before posting. Thanks.



Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
User currently onlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3476 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10132 times:

Maybe you should do fact check and read what he said.

"are on there way to the 20+ years old mark, and may be seeing retirement by the end of the decade."

If the first one was delivered in 95, it will be 20 years old in 2015. And it will be 25 by 2020, or 20+ by the end of the decade.


User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2090 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9996 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
Maybe you should do fact check and read what he said.

"are on there way to the 20+ years old mark, and may be seeing retirement by the end of the decade."

If the first one was delivered in 95, it will be 20 years old in 2015. And it will be 25 by 2020, or 20+ by the end of the decade.

Saying on the way to 20+ makes it sound like they are entering their third decade in service with UA. If he'd said "on their way to the 20 year old mark", then that would be more accurate, but even that is still three and a half years off.


Back to topic - I think it will be interesting to see how UA deploys the three-class 777 (and 767 fleet), and how the two-class fleet is similarly deployed. My hunch is that EWR will see a lot more three-class flying, whilst IAD could see a lot more two-class flying (particularly as the two-class PMUA 763s come on stream). I also suspect IAH could see select routes going three-class. LHR and FRA would be favourite there in my book.



Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10735 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9976 times:

As non-ER 772s are not very much sought after I think UA will keep these planes until they arent useful anymore for a major carrier with a reputation to loose. They are still very good on Transcon and TA though certainly not the youngest anymore, and I agree that by the end of this decade these then true Oldies should go. UA also gets 787-9s A350s by that time which will be ideal 1:1 replacements. Should UA decide to sell more 777s, I think ERs are more likely to find a buyer.

User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1246 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9892 times:

I am very interested to see who becomes the new engine manufacturer of choice for the new UA. As we all know, UA was a virtually exclusive PW flyer, while CO was a big fan of either GE with RR on the 75s (the manufacturers that I personally think are better 2 out of the 3). I know that there are some UA and some CO influences on the new UA. I am just interested to see which one prevails on engine choice. Considering PW doesn't really seem to be doing a lot of work on new large engines (GTF excepted), it may not be huge issue. After getting their clock cleaned with the 4098 and the general lower sales compared to their competitors, I expect to not see many new PW powered frames at UA. Just my humble opinion.


Sic 'em bears
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16866 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9878 times:

Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 7):
I also suspect IAH could see select routes going three-class. LHR and FRA would be favourite there in my book.

And GIG, big energy route.

Quoting AA777223 (Reply 9):
Considering PW doesn't really seem to be doing a lot of work on new large engines (GTF excepted), it may not be huge issue.

You answered your own question.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9816 times:

Quoting na (Reply 8):
UA also gets 787-9s A350s by that time which will be ideal 1:1 replacements.

They have those planes basically signed up 1:1 to replace other planes already.

NS


User currently offlinedfambro From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 327 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9464 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 11):
Quoting na (Reply 8):
UA also gets 787-9s A350s by that time which will be ideal 1:1 replacements.

They have those planes basically signed up 1:1 to replace other planes already.

I view the 50 options of each as a placeholder for potential 777 replacement aircraft. But the 25 firm are replacements for 767 and 747 PMUA aircraft, as you say.


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8897 times:

They do have a total of 50 firm 787s! But it works out to about the total of 767s they have today.

I can't help but be optimistic, as you are, about the options.

NS


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3642 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8603 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 4):
That's very very unlikely. They'll have at least to 2025, they're all still in great shape. Then the very oldest will be 30.

Indeed. I flew N777UA from FRA-ORD a few weeks ago - it's the oldest UA T7 in service and the first 777 ever delivered. She was in great shape, she had the new CO/UA livery and the interior looked brand new. I don't see those earlier T7s going anywhere, anytime soon.



PHX based
User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1796 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 8397 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Once the 787's come on line, we'll see quite a few changes. A lot I think depends on the cost of Jet A as well as the overall economic situation. Thinking optimistically, UA could increase service frequency to their lucrative routes and expand out to new destinations with the 787's as they arrive.

We should expect the two class 763's to ply some of CO's current 757 routes (especially in the summer) and perhaps year round if they have the cargo and a bit of an uptick in passenger demand to justify the switch.

The current ETOPS 757's for the old CO could open up thinner routes to South America or other Euro destinations from EWR. We can assume the two class 763's could be brought in as things develop.

The 787's will open up new destinations of the long and thin variety (such as SFO and/or LAX to BOM or DEL).

There are literally a ton of different combinations which could be employed as UA takes the 787's aboard in quantity.

UA just needs to get their labor situation sorted.


User currently offlineThrust From United States of America, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 2690 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6974 times:

I would think that the older 777s would be the first to go. It seems like in general that the domestic ones fly the same transatlantic routes as the -ERs. I don't know how many they need for their routes though, so this is just an educated guess. Since many of UA's 777s are on average older than CO's, I would imagine they would be sold first. UA's oldest 777 is nearing almost 20 years in age.


Fly one thing; Fly it well
User currently offlinexdlx From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 656 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6435 times:

UA will order 60 77W to replace the PW fleet and 744

User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5938 times:

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 15):
The 787's will open up new destinations of the long and thin variety (such as SFO and/or LAX to BOM or DEL).

I'd think that SFO to either would be able to fill a 777 today, but sure perhaps a 787. I hope they are inventive enough to deploy them on such a route.

LAX is too far, sadly the 787 is just not going to come through on range like that.

Quoting xdlx (Reply 17):
UA will order 60 77W to replace the PW fleet and 744

Right. At this point, that'd be really irresponsible.

NS


User currently offlinewashingtonian From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5743 times:

Quoting 777STL (Reply 14):
She was in great shape, she had the new CO/UA livery and the interior looked brand new.

It probably just received the new cabin modifications, so for all intents and purposes it has a brand new cabin!

With every generation of new aircraft, the older ones are not quite the same as an older aircraft of a previous generation. A 20 year old 777 is not the same as a 20 year old 742 was in 2000.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Thread starter):
- What's the fate (= bases and routes) of the ex-CO 77E fleet ? I understand they all have the new cabins Y and B.F

Yes, and they are relatively new so they will be around for quite some time.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Thread starter):
- Will all ex-UA 777 (thus PW powered) have the same product ? F, J, Y+ and Y ? Will there be a separate domestic product like for Hawaii flights ?

The 6 domestic 777s are not being changed for now.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Thread starter):
- Base of the ex-UA 777 fleet ?

All over, just as now. I tend to think that United will try to keep the GE-powered ex-CO 777s flying from one or two bases in order to simplify maintenance, but who knows. I'd guess from Newark and Dulles--Dulles has a lot of 777 routes that would be fine on 2-class birds, and some of them are long range routes such as IAD-PEK/NRT/DXB/KWI, etc. But they'll be all throughout the system in the coming years.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Thread starter):
- Are the newer J seats on UA777s similar to the B.F seats of the ex-CO fleet ?

Yes, almost the same. Much more similar than Delta and Northwest's premium products at the time of their merger.

Quoting Flying Belgian (Thread starter):
- Are all UA 763ER with upgraded interiors right now ?

Pre-merger, United had 21 3-class international 763ERs that all had the upgraded interiors and 14 2-class domestic 763ERs. United has since announced that those 14 763ERs will receive upgrades to become 2-class international 763ERs. They will receive the pre-merger Continental Business First seat (which is almost identical to the pre-merger United Business class seat) and AVOD in Coach (which the 21 other 763ERs lack), as well as Economy Plus and Channel 9.


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3642 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5630 times:

Quoting Thrust (Reply 16):
It seems like in general that the domestic ones fly the same transatlantic routes as the -ERs.

Yes and no. There are two different subfleets of the A-models. One is internationally configured and flies mostly internationally to Europe. The other has the domestic configuration and flies almost exclusively to Hawaii and on other domestic routes. Never say never, but I think a domestic configured model flying internationally is a rarity. They don't have a business class and the first class is rather rough on those birds.

Quoting Thrust (Reply 16):
UA's oldest 777 is nearing almost 20 years in age.

Not to pick nits, but the oldest 777 is only 16 years old.



PHX based
User currently offlineFX1816 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1400 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5593 times:

Quoting washingtonian (Reply 19):
A 20 year old 777 is not the same as a 20 year old 742 was in 2000.

Given that there is NO such thing as a 20 year old 777, there is really no comparison to be made.

Quoting 777STL (Reply 20):
Quoting Thrust (Reply 16):
UA's oldest 777 is nearing almost 20 years in age.

Not to pick nits, but the oldest 777 is only 16 years old.

It really just appears as though some aren't reading every post!

FX1816


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5535 times:

Thank you, Washingtonian, for re-answering everything.  

NS


User currently offlinetozairport From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 686 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3935 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
Maybe you should do fact check and read what he said.

"are on there way to the 20+ years old mark, and may be seeing retirement by the end of the decade."

Oooohhh, I am soooo sorry. You are right. After all, the 787 that is due to be delivered to UA is on it's way to the 20+ years in service. They should retire it NOW. What could they be thinking?????

Yikes!



Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
User currently offlineFlying Belgian From Belgium, joined Jun 2001, 2391 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3753 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Thanks a lot everyone for your precious input.  

Not easy to follow, but these fleet merger things are never easy to follow.

Just a small last question, the 764ER:

What's the definive post merger config ? Any idea of they'll be used ?

Thxxx.



Life is great at 41.000 feet...
25 tpaewr : There was a vague rumor that some would get an F cabin. But I never heard this from a solid source. And it seems to have faded. The first one (ship 6
26 Flying Belgian : flyerguide.com/wiki/index.php/Interior_Conversions_%28UA%29 This is also remarkably handy to monitor the retrofit progress.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
The Future Of The Airline Fleet posted Thu Oct 26 2000 05:38:12 by Boeing747-400
The Future Of The Current SQ 777-200ER Routes posted Tue Oct 25 2011 12:54:23 by SASMD82
CO/UA, Any Connecting Of The Hub Dots? posted Sat Jul 31 2010 10:13:23 by CIDflyer
The Future Of LH Regional Fleet posted Wed Mar 18 2009 04:02:56 by Columba
Future Of The 717 In Bangkok Air's Fleet? posted Sun Jan 22 2006 08:00:03 by 717fan
UA, The Future Of The West? posted Fri May 17 2002 05:58:33 by Highliner2
The Future Of The A340-500 And 777-200LR posted Fri May 18 2001 15:30:51 by Godbless
The Economist: EK & Co. "Rulers Of The New Silk Road" posted Tue Jun 15 2010 06:54:44 by SQ_EK_freak
Future Of The 747 QF15/16 posted Tue May 11 2010 03:27:54 by Jackbr
Why Did Aeroflot Get Rid Of The 777? posted Fri Apr 9 2010 16:41:19 by c5load