emirates202 From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 237 posts, RR: 0 Posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 9625 times:
Whenever I fly, it seems like the flights are always 100% full in all cabins, in and out of JFK. Since the morning the flight is currently operated by a 777, wouldn't it make more sense to make both flights A380's? Especially because a first class passenger might want to take a shower before landing, b/c EK 203, and 204 both arrive at JFK, or DXB in the morning, while 202 and 201 arrive in the afternoon and evening. What I'm saying is, do you think EK would ever think about making JFK all A380? Or add another flight, making a total of 3 daily flights?
emirates202 From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 237 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9566 times:
Thats true, but I'm still not sure about that because they just ordered another 50 777W's. I feel like they should make all the short haul flights the 777's and the rest A380's
I think so too - I also think that they shouldn't have ordered the A350... it would've simplified their fleet if they phase out the A340s and A330s.. so just 777s and A380s... makes sense right?
“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
emirates202 From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 237 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9497 times:
WestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1258 posts, RR: 7 Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9495 times:
Sounds like at the moment it's just a dispatching thing. It would probably be too tight to fit in an A380 on that route until they take another delivery or two.
Very rarely do I hear someone make 100% load factor sound like an issue
EK knows what they're doing, I am certain they have analyzed the hell out of this route. I'm assuming that they have calculated that the RASM over CASM on a 100% 77W is nominally more profitable than the RASM over CASM on a less than 100% A380.
WestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1258 posts, RR: 7 Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9448 times:
Quoting irshava (Reply 3): I think so too - I also think that they shouldn't have ordered the A350... it would've simplified their fleet if they phase out the A340s and A330s.. so just 777s and A380s... makes sense right?
Makes perfect sense...but I believe this is in part to relationship management with the supplier. By keeping a diverse fleet of Airbus types as opposed to just the one type (A380 in this case), EK can come to the bargaining table when brokering deals and say "Listen Airbus, we've been real good customers, what kind of deal can you cut us on our next order?"
I worked on a purchasing team in a non-av industry and this was a tactic we used to no end, almost always with success.
emirates202 From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 237 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 9389 times:
Usually though, when I try to book EK 203/204, they are hard to find seats on in any cabin! I feel that making these an A380 as well, would make them more money, as I feel they will both go out 100% full in every cabin.
I think having ordered 90 of the largest plane on the planet makes them Airbus's favorite customer. 90 A380s is about 398 A320 aircraft. Right there. On the spot.
“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
Very true...but it certainly helps to further leverage their position by signing on for a bunch of Airbus' newest aircraft, and being one of the first five customers to take delivery.
I agree but its not like they ordered a whole lot of those A350s... its 70 (not a lot compared to the other orders) + Clark isn't happy with it right now... with all the mods and delays and not meeting initial expectations... Al Baker was pretty pissed about it too.
“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
Err. What? Only QR has ordered more than EK. Throw in options and EK might be ahead.
Exactly what YTZ said: QR ordered 80 (20 -800, 40 -900, 20 -1000) with no options, and EK ordered 70 (50 -900, 20 -1000) with 50 options. I'd have to say EADS is swooning over EK a little more at the moment. Although I do believe QR is the launch customer for the -900, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Quoting irshava (Reply 10): Al Baker was pretty pissed about it too
Reasonably so...but the guy also rules with an iron fist, so to say he's pissed is just normal commentary
qf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2554 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 8912 times:
What if EK were to focus on getting to an A380/777 state this decade, and defer the A350's to act as the beginning of a 777 replacement plan early next decade? Then by 2030 run an all A380/A350 fleet?
something From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 24 Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8570 times:
The answer is quite simple: Marketing.
The A380 is still a marketing tool for EK and they try to introduce it to as many markets as possible, with the most premium markets at the forefront. DXB-JFK requires two airplanes and leaves them with a rather nasty downtime, so by making one of the two daily flights a 77W EK can fly to two European destinations on the whale and can still boast A380 service into JFK. Also, the 77W has more cargo space but I expect EK to go 2x A380 and 1x 77F on the DXB-JFK in the immediate future, with the cargo flight most likely going through LGG.
usxguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 830 posts, RR: 6 Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8419 times:
Btw I beg to differ that 201/202 are always full. When I did the flight, Economy was maybe 70%, business was at 66%, and First was barely 50%. You said you always book them, but your age is 13-15.... just wondering if that's an error in the profile or you selected the wrong age group? not many 13-15 year olds have $1800 sitting in the bank to buy tickets on EK on a regular basis...
flyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 997 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 8276 times:
Quoting emirates202 (Thread starter): Whenever I fly, it seems like the flights are always 100% full in all cabins, in and out of JFK.
Quoting usxguy (Reply 16): You said you always book them, but your age is 13-15.... just wondering if that's an error in the profile or you selected the wrong age group? not many 13-15 year olds have $1800 sitting in the bank to buy tickets on EK on a regular basis...
I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's on the flights every now and then (with his parents, probably), but odds are it will only be during school vacations. Pretty much every flight in the world is full at vacation time - it's the rest of the year that separates your good routes from your bad ones.
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emirates202 From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 237 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7929 times:
I fly with my parents, or sometimes alone. I fly between NY and HYD about 5-6 times a year in first class. I don't always fly during vacation times. I recently flew in the end of October on EK 202, it was hard to even get 1 seat in business or first. And 201, same thing.
emirates202 From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 237 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 7912 times:
Also, my dad flys between New York and HYD about 15-20 times a year in J or F, and he also always has problems finding seats on the flights from JFK-DXB-JFK. True, I usually do fly during vacations, but I also fle during random times, like I recently went for a wedding in the end of October. The flight was definitely full in all cabins. I was in F- all 14 seats filled on EK202. J I could see was full, and the Crew said they were 100% full in Y as well.
I am currently able to check loads of EK flights and your observations seem fairly consistent with the numbers in the system. Not even close to the 100% mark you speak of, but good enough anyways.
However, as noted above, there is more to airplane scheduling than demand only. If you have less seats to sell, you can demand higher fares. The A380 also has less cargo space vis-a-vis the 77W. Both flights will eventually go A380 with a possible additional cargo-flight, but I can think of at least 6-7 other markets that EK wants to introduce the A380 to before upgauging the double JFK flight. It's a prestige thing and again, as said before, if you had to choose between serving two new stations with the A380 or just giving JFK the second one, especially since there will be more money to be made in these other markets (less saturated -> smaller chance of unsold or low yielding seats), you would not have to think twice about which route to go. For the record, the 6-7 markets I mention above are just personal suspicion. It may as well be one or twenty, but I have reason to assume it won't.
Edit: If you're back and forth between HYD and JFK that much, don't you think you live in the wrong place? Just wondering..
airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 6871 posts, RR: 7 Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7152 times:
I would look to LHR as a sign of things to come for EK at JFK. I'd expect EK to go to 3x daily before deploying a second A380 on the route.
Malayil From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 72 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5586 times:
Forget another daily to JFK, they should add more flights to the East Coast like EWR, BOS, IAD and PHL.
emirates202 From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 237 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5349 times:
I live in NY, but I wouldn't want to live in HYD. lol. Just have family there- have lived and grown up in NY, and my dad has business there,+ lots and lots of weddings are the reasons for the many trips we take, as well as my dads business.
emirates202 From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 237 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5229 times:
True, but I dont think that will happen for a while, maybe a year after Dallas and Seattle are started. If a 3rd Daily JFK starts, I think that wouldn't be until 2016, or 2017
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25 airbazar: They're not mutually exclusive. They can add more East Coast destinations and still go to 3 times daily, just like they kept growing LHR while adding
26 emirates202: But knowing EK, I wouldn't expect a 3rd daily to JFK, until late 2016- early 2017. Also, PHL, EWR, etc prob would be after more major airports, such
27 emirates202: Definetly about following what they did about LHR, and the 3rd daily would probably be another A380
28 NCFC99: I'm not technically minded enough(or clever enough) to work out the answer to the following question. If EK are flying a 777 and a 380 daily at 85-95
29 rutankrd: Firstly they only have EDA- E with the crew rest for the longer hauls, second they deploy the 77W for added cargo uplift as double 388s would actuall
30 hamad: You are not entirely correct. Aircrafts EDA-E have the crew rest, EDF-L doesn't, however EDM-P has crew rest as well. Not sure about Q. i have worked
31 mogandoCI: Wasn't it SQ that launched the -900XWB ? Or are you counting the original A350 Mark 1 ?
32 WestJet747: Are you suggesting he fly LESS? That's A-net blasphemy! I just looked it up. SQ was the first carrier to order frames and QR the fourth (a year later
33 bonusonus: EWR might see Emirates cargo before it receives pax service (if it ever does).
35 ACES320: True until may be one day the A389 comes along and those landing gear buggies will not be taking all the cargo hold space anymore as they currently d
36 something: But does EK actually do that? DXB-JFK is a very long flight and from what I have observed they keep flights over a certain duration at twice daily le
37 YYZALA: I think all the points listed are valid (though it is impossible to know 100%). Also it could be that there are more profitable destinations to send t
38 windian425: EK will be operating to LHR 3x daily from 24th January, 2012. See below from the EK source. 15th November 2011 - Extra A380s for Heathrow. Emirates to
39 airbazar: Well, I've heard mixed reactions to this. Much depends on the mission and whether it's weight or volume limited, but I suspect that you're right for
40 vincewy: Any additional cities getting A380 services from EK besides KUL? I know they're getting a few more frames in 2012.
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