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UA/CO Shuttle On East Coast  
User currently offlineUnited777ORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 261 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7179 times:

With the strong possibility of an AA/US merger and US leaving the Star Alliance, will UA/CO establish a east coast shuttle between EWR, BOS, IAD with hourly or near hourly service? In the scenario of a AA/US merger, Skyteam (DL/NW) and OneWorld (AA/US) would have east coast shuttles and Star Alliance would not.

United Airlines Shuttle
EWR-BOS 11x E70 6am-9pm every 1.5 hours
EWR-IAD 11x E70 6am-9pm every 1.5 hours

BOS-EWR 11x E70 6am-9pm every 1.5 hours
BOS-IAD 11x E70 6am-9pm every 1.5 hours

IAD-BOS 11x E70 6am-9pm every 1.5 hours
IAD-EWR 11x E70 6am-9pm every 1.5 hours

Just my two cents.....

56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6477 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7152 times:

In the case of IAD, a shuttle operation would fail miserably. IAD is too far away from the DC areas business core to justify that level of service.

User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6574 posts, RR: 32
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7100 times:

Quoting United777ORD (Thread starter):
will UA/CO establish a east coast shuttle between EWR, BOS, IAD with hourly or near hourly service?

I think it's exceedingly unlikely. Back in the early 1990's, CO ran an hourly shuttle from EWR to both BOS & DCA, but that service is long gone. EWR-IAD would have even less demand. The BOS-LGA-DCA shuttles are pretty empty on most flights; I doubt they make money anymore apart from helping to win corporate contracts.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16689 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 7067 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 2):
Back in the early 1990's, CO ran an hourly shuttle from EWR to both BOS & DCA

Late '90s CO was running 23 daily nonstops between EWR and BOS, all MD-80s.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDLD9S From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 256 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6971 times:

The location of LGA and DCA to NYC and DC are important factors in the history of the success of the shuttle. The extra travel time to EWR and IAD would probably be a deal killer for many customers that use the current DL and US products.


717 727 737 747 757 767 777 DC9 DC10 M80 M90 M11 L10 AB6 333 340 319 320 321 ARJ CRJ EM2 EMJ SF3 146 100 BE1...
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2791 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6943 times:

Quoting DLD9S (Reply 4):
The extra travel time to EWR and IAD would probably be a deal killer for many customers that use the current DL and US products.

EWR with the airtrain to NJT and then Penn Station is actually incredibly convenient. LGA to Manhattan can be a crap shoot.

IAD though is a non-starter.


User currently offlineBureaucromancer From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6908 times:

Really the future of the shuttles, if they have ones at all is going to have to be in things like the expansion to Chicago, and other longer sectors like Boston-Washington. Fuel costs aside for a moment Acela just doesn't leave the airlines in a competitive place for New York centred trips and any further investment is only going grow the rail market share. The shuttle just isn't all that attractive a model if you've got anything like competitive ground transportation between security, airport distance (even with BOS, LGW and DCA) and cost; even the buses are eating significantly into what was once the shuttle's market at this point.

User currently offlineDLD9S From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 256 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6880 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 5):
EWR with the airtrain to NJT and then Penn Station is actually incredibly convenient.

Very true, but if you are going to Penn Station to get on a train to EWR, you might as well just get on the Acela to Boston or DC.

Does anyone know if UA will continue CO's reciprocal mileage plan with Amtrak on the Acela?



717 727 737 747 757 767 777 DC9 DC10 M80 M90 M11 L10 AB6 333 340 319 320 321 ARJ CRJ EM2 EMJ SF3 146 100 BE1...
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6874 times:

With UA flying mainline on BOS-IAD and EWR-BOS mixed with regionals, I don't see why they would need a shuttle.

EWR-BOS sees a/c as large as 739s and as small as colgan Q400s

IAD-BOS sees a/c as large as 757s and as small as CRJs.

Maybe EWR-BOS will start to see UA 757s soon enough?



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5953 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6854 times:

Hey, as of today, you can stop referring to it as UA/CO......


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6826 times:

Yep. Officially, there is no longer an airline called Continental.

NS


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21085 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6826 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 5):
EWR with the airtrain to NJT and then Penn Station is actually incredibly convenient. LGA to Manhattan can be a crap shoot.

That requires you to get to Penn Station, though, which can be difficult from the East Side. LGA can be a crapshoot, but is generally more car-friendly than EWR (public transport is a mess, of course).

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6694 times:

Why not try something different like a ORD-DCA and ORD-BOS shuttle with smaller planes than ORD-LGA

User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6668 times:

I think ORD-DCA is about as close as you can get. There's already 17 nonstops on most days.

NS


User currently offlineUALFAson From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 658 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6592 times:

It surprises me, but from a marketing standpoint, airlines have all but stopped advertising their "shuttle" operations along the DCA-LGA-BOS corridor.

Yes, they still have airport signage that uses the word "shuttle" and perhaps also have dedicated check-in and gate areas, but the aircraft themselves have long since had any Shuttle titleage removed from both inside and outside the aircraft. And with decrease in airline advertising in general, also long gone are the advertisements announcing service "every hour on the half hour" and seat availability guarantees.

I say surprising because I would think the airlines would want to draw attention to their product and fight back against Amtrak, which is probably the best way to get in and out of NY, esp if you are heading to Manhattan. Maybe they have just decided it's a lost cause.

On a separate but related note, what was the final decision (was there one?) about using Express aircraft between IAD & EWR. Don't all hub-to-hub routes have to be operated on mainline equipment? Are we going to start seeing upgrades anytime soon?



"We hope you've enjoyed flying with us as much as we've enjoyed taking you for a ride."
User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6567 times:

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 14):
On a separate but related note, what was the final decision (was there one?) about using Express aircraft between IAD & EWR. Don't all hub-to-hub routes have to be operated on mainline equipment? Are we going to start seeing upgrades anytime soon?

Yeah and that's annoying because it's all on regional ERJs or even worse, DH8s. Pathetic for services between 2 hubs. Isn't this also a violation of scope?

However, on an odd day if you look (and you have to REALLY dig) you might find an occasional 738 between the two hubs.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4124 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6518 times:

In recent years BOS-EWR really served more as a flight with mostly connecting passengers on it and very little O and D. BOS is a city where EWR connections make sense from to just about anywhere. I don't see that changing anytime soon, though I do see less frequency because the merged company has a lot more options to route people over, where PMCO only had CLE and IAH in addition to EWR.

As for IAD, US tried to make IAD a shuttle city to both BOS and LGA around the same time MetroJet was in operation. It failed miserably and didn't last long at all.

The only shuttle route that makes sense these days is BOS-DCA, where there is no comporable ground transport that can compete the way they can on any shuttle routes involving LGA.


User currently onlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1913 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 6486 times:

I would guess with ancillary revenues becoming a bigger and bigger part of the airline equation the shuttles are some of the lost ancillary revenue producing flights (no luggage, almost no one will want snacks and probably only a small amount of alcohol).

User currently offlineBureaucromancer From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6474 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 16):
The only shuttle route that makes sense these days is BOS-DCA, where there is no comporable ground transport that can compete the way they can on any shuttle routes involving LGA.

I'd think Chicago (whatever field it is these days) LGA and Chicago DCA if anyone cared to try would perform reasonably as well. Not traditional shuttle true, but the first one at least is part of what branding is left now...


User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6459 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 15):
Pathetic for services between 2 hubs. Isn't this also a violation of scope?

They're like 200 miles apart. Seriously? I'd like to see Q400s on it all day long. They're nice, will have E+ and F, and are the correct fiscal choice.


NS


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6435 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 19):

It's hub to hub. They have no place on a route like EWR-IAD. Any other route of that length, absolutely.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6401 times:

I'm sorry, I just really don't care. If its hub to hub, they've captured the traffic already and there's no need to do anything else to compete for it.

At this point, we should be wanting the airlines to do what makes sense, not what we think would be "awesome". That route is lightly traveled as it is and I'd rather them use the gas, and the plane, on routes that are longer and have regional jets presently.

Hell, lets look more towards IAD and IAH than IAD and EWR.

NS


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4141 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6347 times:
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Quoting Bureaucromancer (Reply 18):
I'd think Chicago (whatever field it is these days) LGA and Chicago DCA if anyone cared to try would perform reasonably as well

Today (December 1st) there are 15 regular DCA-ORD departures and 15 regular ORD-DCA departures -- 16 regular ORD-LGA departures, and 16 regular LGA-ORD departures.

Every flight listed on United.com uses E170, A319, or A320 equipment and features F, Y+, and Y seating.

What I can't get my head around is how changing to a shuttle-type setup (with one-class seating?) would be an improvement over the current level of service.


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1445 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6310 times:

Quoting DLD9S (Reply 7):
Does anyone know if UA will continue CO's reciprocal mileage plan with Amtrak on the Acela?

There was a blurb a while back about that staying around, but I don't have a cite for that. I believe I saw it on FlyerTalk.


User currently offlineboilerla From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6273 times:

Quoting United777ORD (Thread starter):
With the strong possibility of an AA/US merger and US leaving the Star Alliance, will UA/CO establish a east coast shuttle between EWR, BOS, IAD with hourly or near hourly service? In the scenario of a AA/US merger, Skyteam (DL/NW) and OneWorld (AA/US) would have east coast shuttles and Star Alliance would not.

I think if such a merger were approved (and that's a big if--in a couple of years who knows what the DOJ will feel like) then the resulting airline will probably be required to divest itself of a significant number of DCA and LGA slots to win approval. So, OneWorld may not have much of a shuttle either.


25 kgaiflyer : Yet everyone wants PD to come to their city -- how odd this conversation is becoming. Personally, my last Q400 flight (a QX flight on Monday) was YYJ
26 bohica : Under the UA scope clause it was worded that express carriers could not operate between two pilot domiciles. The WAS-NYC route was grandfathered in s
27 delta2ual : Maybe on Acela, but I received an e-mail from Amtrak saying all my CO points had to be transferred to my Amtrak Guest Rewards account by 12/31/2011 a
28 ScottB : Neither of the Shuttle operations are single-class anymore. The one-class Shuttle operations were generally better than the ordinary DL or US Y produ
29 DualQual : It's the same in the CO pilot contract as well.
30 washingtonian : The LGA-DCA portion of the US Shuttle provides a ton of feed into their DCA hub and has remained with A-319s. The LGA-BOS portion has been E-190s for
31 N62NA : All 3 excellent points. I think the 21st century candidates for "shuttle" ops would be LGA-ATL on DL and LGA-ORD on DL, UA and AA. I honestly don't s
32 VC10er : I just did Acela from Penn to Boston, RT, in business was $244. The upgrade to the business car was like $16 bucks and got a foot rest and a darker li
33 delta2ual : There is none. CO had an agreement with Amtrak which, according to an e-mail I received yesterday, ends on 12/31/2011.
34 Post contains images seabosdca : There may be some room for growth on DC-NY air services just because Acela (and even Amtrak regional service) is very capacity-constrained at the mome
35 DLMD90 : I doubt it, does anyone really want to go to IAD or EWR? Not really.
36 Post contains images kgaiflyer : But of course -- the tens of millions of O&D who live in those locations.
37 Cubsrule : I don't think this is right. Wasn't BOS moved to Concourse A when they just moved a handful of destinations (Chicago was another) because of the rela
38 C680 : True shuttle only work DCA-LGA-BOS due to close in proximity. Sorry, EWR is still "Jersey" to many, many New Yorkers. But I also remember the real shu
39 mogandoCI : That is nostalgic and may have sense when oil was pennies on the dollar.... and back then, rail was painfully outdated or slow, so flying was the rea
40 TOMMY767 : Acela is too expensive and the metroliner is too slow. There are some serious pros and cons to both modes of transportation. EWR-BOS on a 739 isn't a
41 ScottB : It's a screaming bargain compared to the Shuttles. $818 round-trip on short notice -- and that's before another $20 in taxes & fees. Plus no cab
42 Bureaucromancer : Add to that that while ground transportation in general makes for a softer target it is considerably harder to get either the same impact with a sing
43 N62NA : It's not due to the fact that there won't be another tunnel built under the Hudson to NYC Penn Station. The Acela typically runs only 4 or 5 cars - t
44 Bureaucromancer : To some extent. They do have enough trains to run a somewhat more frequent service but for the corridors lack of slots. This is even more true as you
45 EWRandMDW : Does anyone really care what a New Yorker thinks?
46 davescj : Forgive me, but when did this become a stung possibility? Don't get me wrong, i would be in favor of the merger, but I doubt it will happen. I agree
47 COEWR787 : There is a new agreement in the works which will apparently allow cross accrual but not cross redemption. But do treat tis just as a hearsay for now
48 jfklganyc : Wrong airports in NYC and DC. Need LGA and DCA for a "shuttle" operation. JFK fan that I am, I have to admit nothing (absolutely nothing) can beat the
49 STT757 : FWIW Mapquest quotes the following drive times from Wall Street: LGA 22 minutes EWR 28 minutes JFK 38 minutes
50 Post contains images jfklganyc : Except: 1. the largest commercial district in the country is Midtown, not wall street (which is downtown) 2. Wall Street is on the East Side, not West
51 kgaiflyer : Not the point. A.netters talk about New Yorkers like they were monolithic -- they're not. Correct, however -- All New Yorkers want the most convenien
52 N62NA : At 5am on Sundays.
53 Post contains images DLMD90 : Right, and that's why there is mainline there and not* a shuttle!
54 STT757 : How do you get to Queens from Manhattan without crossing a Bridge? Most of them, according to the Lower Manhattan development corp, live in New Jerse
55 kgaiflyer : Or Bronx to Queens? Or Brooklyn to Manhattan? or Staten Island to anywhere?
56 N62NA : Queens Midtown Tunnel. Brooklyn-Battery Tunnel.
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