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Central American Aviation Thread. Part 45  
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4479 posts, RR: 4
Posted (2 years 9 months 15 hours ago) and read 12399 times:




THE CENTRAL AMERICAN AVIATION THREAD
PART XLV

“Tribute to Belize Airways Limited”

Belize had an own airline which likely operated during the 70s and 80s. According to photographic information available on the database, its fleet consisted of five 720s. Regrettably, there is very little information regarding their destinations, aircraft registrations, investments, owners and the reasons that led to its demise.
The attached pic shows a shiny B720 during the mid 70s in South Florida which belonged to United Airlines before.





Some highlights from the old thread:

TACA and Sky Airline from Chile began mutual code-share service.
The expansion in Panama City and Liberia would be completed in December.
Tropic Air announced service to Orange Walk, Belize. San Pedro Sula and Roatan will begin in March.
Jet Blue inaugurated the Liberia - New York JFK service on November 17th.
Avianca-TACA is reporting US 117,8 net profit in 2011.
Maintenance works in Lima resulted in temporary reductions on TACA.
Lufthansa might be considering flights to Central America in the future.
TACA expects to have over 11% of the Peruvian domestic market-share by year's end.
Brazil gives 21 new weekly frequencies to Panama.
TACA, AeroGal and Avianca consolidate its presence into the [Peru-Ecuador-Colombia] market.
No more E90s for both Copa Airlines and TACA.


Please, respect all the opinions in the forum.


"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
201 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineviaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2120 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 15 hours ago) and read 12389 times:

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Thread starter):
Avianca-TACA is reporting US 117,8 net profit in 2011

... yet the holding company says nothing about presumed losses by TACA.  



Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2607 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 14 hours ago) and read 12370 times:

Are CM or TA going to have any extra additional flights for December before Xmas and January after New Year on their routes with the most O/D demand? Like PTY-MIA for CM and LAX-SAL for TA?


I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6576 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 13 hours ago) and read 12340 times:
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Quoting viaggiare (Reply 1):
... yet the holding company says nothing about presumed losses by TACA.  

"Presumed" by whom? you?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4394 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 13 hours ago) and read 12340 times:

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Thread starter):
Avianca-TACA is reporting US 117,8 net profit in 2011.

That is not true. The 117,8 million net profit is for the first nine months of the year from the Avianca division of the Holding. Aviaca-Taca made around 70 million during the first 9 months of 2011.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineviaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2120 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 11 hours ago) and read 12310 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 3):
"Presumed" by whom?

I'm not making this up.. the simple rationale behind these presumptive losses was explained to me in the Colombian thread and it goes like this..

What RCS763AV said is that if you take that [US$117.8M] profit by AV only, and compare it with the [US$70.5M] for the whole group, the [–US$47.3M] difference is presumably attributable to a loss by TACA.

And these conjectures are fueled by the fact that both AviancaTaca (holding company) and AVIANCA figures have been made available to the public, but there are still no official individual results for TACA.



Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4479 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 11 hours ago) and read 12310 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 2):
Are CM or TA going to have any extra additional flights for December before Xmas and January after New Year on their routes with the most O/D demand? Like PTY-MIA for CM and LAX-SAL for TA?


CM PTY-MIA is operating as 28x weekly since June 16th. The airline will add four more seasonal-weekly frequencies on December 16th.
TA SAL-MIA 21x weekly remains unchanged.
The most impressive item is NK SJO-FLL that is already flying the traditional red-eye service until the end of the 2012 US summer break. Their extra frequencies would vary from 4x to 6x weekly.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineviaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2120 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 11 hours ago) and read 12303 times:

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 6):
NK SJO-FLL that is already flying the traditional red-eye service until the end of the 2012 US summer break

I believe that red–eye started out as a seasonal (low season only) experiment, so is it now year–round?



Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2607 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 10 hours ago) and read 12285 times:

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 6):
The airline will add four more seasonal-weekly frequencies on December 16th.

0535h departure from MIA, quite cool    but it gets into PTY at a morning hub time (southbound connections) 0830h. PTY-MIA departs 1550h, MIA arrival 1850h.
Don't know what CM intents to do with that aircraft in MIA between 2000h and 0430h next morning.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4479 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 3 hours ago) and read 12233 times:

Quoting viaggiare (Reply 7):

I believe that red–eye started out as a seasonal (low season only) experiment, so is it now year–round?


The red-eye NK FLL-SJO-FLL will end on September 03rd 2012.
As a result, NK FLL-SJO will launch [10x to 13x] weekly frequencies throughout the 2012.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 12205 times:

the history of BAL is sketchy..but I do recall flying them to MIA. I believe they had 4 707s


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2607 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12162 times:

PTY ordered the delay of the bid for new concourse furniture From www.prensa.com - in Spanish
PTY airport management ordered the bid for the new concourse furniture to be delayed due to complaints from 10 of the 11 bidders. It was suggested by one of the companies bidding that chairs and counters should go in separate bids and that the time for the furniture delivery and installation should be 90 days instead of 30.
CM is in desperate need of that new concourse fully or at least partially functional and if there are no furniture there when it's OK to use, IMHO most likely CM could give a damn about whom PTY is getting the furniture from and when and dare to bring temporary chairs, counter desks so to use the new jetways ASAP.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12138 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 14):
PTY ordered the delay of the bid for new concourse furniture From www.prensa.com - in Spanish
PTY airport management ordered the bid for the new concourse furniture to be delayed due to complaints from 10 of the 11 bidders. It was suggested by one of the companies bidding that chairs and counters should go in separate bids and that the time for the furniture delivery and installation should be 90 days instead of 30.
CM is in desperate need of that new concourse fully or at least partially functional and if there are no furniture there when it's OK to use, IMHO most likely CM could give a damn about whom PTY is getting the furniture from and when and dare to bring temporary chairs, counter desks so to use the new jetways ASAP.

Sounds like some rigged bidding to me.....would we expect anything less?



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineviaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2120 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 12045 times:

Some of you might enjoy reading this study (over two years old and in Spanish) concerning air transport regulatory conditions (pre AV/TA merger) in CentAm and how those conditions affected intra–regional competition and fares.


Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2607 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12015 times:

Quoting viaggiare (Reply 13):
Some of you might enjoy reading this study (over two years old and in Spanish) concerning air transport regulatory conditions (pre AV/TA merger) in CentAm and how those conditions affected intra–regional competition and fares.

It even had a whole point about CM 2nd SAL frequency. How complete!



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineviaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2120 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 11961 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 14):
It even had a whole point about CM 2nd SAL frequency. How complete!

Yes and best of all it's a scholarly academic exercise (lots of research and footnotes!) put together with backing from CEPAL (UN Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean) by a university professor with no ties to the region and holding a master's degree in Economics (from Cornell) and a Ph.D. in Strategic Management.



Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offlineaer From Guatemala, joined Mar 2004, 1048 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 11885 times:

Quoting viaggiare (Reply 15):

It's a really interesting document, I couldn't put it down.



nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
User currently offlineviaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2120 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 11722 times:

As expected, the current Chinchilla administration (very much in line with its clueless and demagogic tradition) will reward COOPESA with over 107K sq ft of new hangar space (expected to cost US$27M) on a 15–acre tract of real estate south of the SJO runway, adjacent to the airport's namesake caserío of El Coco, along with a sweetheart rent deal (US$45K/month although it should be at least twice that) and no mention of past unpaid rent owed to CETAC.

Such generous holiday season gift bundle is so COOPESA agrees to move out of its present location (where it has been freeloading shamelessly for almost five decades) and AERIS can build nine additional gates, including two widebody positions and a new domestic terminal to replace the current tin–roof SANSA shack.





Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2607 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 11687 times:

Quoting viaggiare (Reply 17):
Such generous holiday season gift bundle is so COOPESA agrees to move out of its present location (where it has been freeloading shamelessly for almost five decades) and AERIS can build nine additional gates, including two widebody positions and a new domestic terminal to replace the current tin–roof SANSA shack.

Yes, the area COOPESA is supposed to be moving is on the other side of the runway, but given how room deprived SJO is, isn't that area also good as extra remote positions?

Did COOPESA threatened the Chinchilla government to move out of Costa Rica if they didn't get that piece of land on the other side of SJO runway?
Why Chinchilla and others didn't forcibly entice COOPESA to re-locate to LIR?



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4479 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11611 times:

Quoting viaggiare (Reply 13):
Some of you might enjoy reading this study


Excellent contribution !
I partially agreed with the following excerpt that refers to the operating model of TACA:

"...el modelo de Grupo Taca se acerca más al sistema PP que al HS.

CM ** is undoubtedly regulated by the "point to point [PP]" diagram.
TACA *** model might be also paraphrased as "an airline having three Hub and Spoke [HS] systems." Well, maybe not...
For the case of Miami, the airline operates LIM-MIA, SJO-MIA, SAL-TGU-MIA, SAL-GUA-MIA, SAL-MGA-MIA, SAL-SAP-MIA and SAL-MIA. Mexico City, Los Angeles, Medellin, Caracas, Quito, Guayaquil, Managua, Santo Domingo, Guatemala City, Managua, New York JFK, Havana, etc are also experiencing similar models but with fewer points of origin.
Now take a look at other destinations such as ASU, YYZ, MVD, LPB, EZE, GIG, GRU, POA, BSB, VVI, SCL, CUN, MCO, IAH, BZE, SFO, CUZ, TRU, TPP, AQP, CIX and so on. All these airports are being served from one only HS.

CM ** Copa Airlines Colombia was not taken into consideration.
TACA *** Avianca was not been taken into consideration.


Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineaer From Guatemala, joined Mar 2004, 1048 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 11466 times:

Saw this on Cocesna's web page FRS ICAO code will change from MGTK to MGMM on Jan 12, 2012. SUP A32/11 says that it's so the code can be in line with the airport's name Mundo Maya. So many things will have to change then because supposedly MGMM was assigned to the town of Melchor de Mencos.

[Edited 2011-12-07 11:12:17]


nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
User currently offlineviaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2120 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 11381 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 18):
isn't that area also good as extra remote positions?

Yes but there is sufficient unutilized/underutilized real estate elsewhere.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 18):
Did COOPESA threaten the Chinchilla government to move out of Costa Rica if they didn't get that piece of land

No.. in fact one of their arguments against relocating to LIR was that “es imposible movilizar a 950 familias que tienen su vida hecha en el Valle Central" so a threat like that would be laughable.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 18):
Why Chinchilla and others didn't forcibly entice COOPESA to re-locate to LIR?

The short answer is that MOPT (Ministerio de Obras Públicas y Transportes) is one of the most atrophied government entities (and a hotbed of incompetence, improvisation, and corruption) while COOPESA successfully played the political and public relations game, and has kept MOPT/CETAC at bay through years of contencioso–administrativo ligitation.



Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2607 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 11345 times:

Since it's reported that UA will have to suspend IAH-CCS due to UA lack of operation permits in Venezuela (those are Contiental's acocording to Venezuelan officials), it's expected UA IAH-PTY and CM PTY-CCS fights will face a sudden demand increase.


I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4479 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11232 times:

Flashback.

Continental Airlines' Central American route system on July 01st 1994.



CO IAH-BZE; 5x weekly
CO IAH-GUA; 3x weekly
CO IAH-GUA-MGA; 4x weekly
CO IAH-SAL; 7x weekly
CO IAH-TGU-SAP-IAH; 7x weekly
CO IAH-SJO-CLO; 4x weekly
CO IAH-SJO-BAQ; 3x weekly
CO IAH-PTY-UIO; 4x weekly
CO IAH-PTY-GYE; 3x weekly

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6108 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11096 times:

Just back from ROUTES in SJU....things look to get very interesting in C. America in 2012. There is going to be a mad dash!


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
25 Post contains images viaggiare : We always look forward to announcements re long–awaited routes and new players!
26 SJOtoLIR : Let me read between the lines: it was rumored that B6 is planning to develop a base in Puerto Rico and the Central American airports might be forming
27 Post contains images copa330200 : that's sound good !! a bit of healthy competition won't hurt the consumers Saludos, Humberto
28 copa330200 : Today evening will arrive in Panama via MAD Manuel Noriega on the IB flight # 6345 I'm bit surprise that IB accepted to bring this infamaus guy on the
29 2travel2know2 : It happens that criminals are flown on commercial flights when deported or transferred from one jail to another. In this specific high-profile case,
30 SHAQ : Why the Panamanian Goverment have to pay Business Class to him? He is going to jail, he don't deserve to fly in bussines. Anyway , I don't think that
31 2travel2know2 : I said NOBODY as nobody from his friends, colleagues and family. Suddenly he has no friends who care we travels comfortably. Daughters and wife don't
32 Post contains images mt99 : Hasn't he suffered enough?!!! Subject him to IB "service?" (Just Kidding )[Edited 2011-12-11 09:25:31]
33 Post contains images viaggiare : No info on registration but aircraft seems to have departed MAD at 13:57 local (07:57 hora de Panamá) I heard the Policía Nacional will take no cha
34 Post contains links 2travel2know2 : Panama to increase security @ PTY from www.tvn-2.com in Spanish. Panama government is to increase security because Noriega's return on an IB flight la
35 SJOtoLIR : It's still unclear how B6 might deploy these intended services through San Juan. Furthermore, connecting Central America to the United States mainlan
36 Post contains images copa330200 : gorgeos
37 Post contains links 2travel2know2 : Spanair interested in PTY From www.prensa.com - in Spanish CM PTY hub has awaken Spanair interest to fly to the region. That airline directors met wit
38 SJOtoLIR : Rumor: TACA might operate the SAL-UIO non-stop route in the future as complement of TA SAL-GYE 3x weekly. . Not yet. I share the idea that PTY is poin
39 2travel2know2 : And I wonder how JK is going to do since they no longer have any aircraft with the range to fly non-stop between Spain and PTY.
40 SCL767 : Wouldn't SQ operating a SIN-BCN-PTY route be more practical with a JK code-share linking three Star hubs?
41 Post contains images copa330200 : that's an excellent idea Yesterday I heard on local radio that the IB airplane where Noriega come on Sunday was not able to return to MAD on the same
42 yellowtail : deleted due to double post.... filler filler[Edited 2011-12-13 05:20:08]
43 Post contains links SJOtoLIR : The Direccion General de Aviacion Civil de Costa Rica argues that the new ticketing building in Liberia has not come yet into commercial operation due
44 aer : Didn't know that JK flew over the Atlantic.
45 Post contains links viaggiare : This comes as no surprise and CM (with its sprawling SouthAm network and prior experience serving Caribbean leisure markets) is poised to do extremel
46 Post contains links 2travel2know2 : JK did it when they had B767-300ER. Quite an interesting out-of-the-box suggestion from a extremely unexpected source. PTY airlines against new passe
47 SJOtoLIR : JK was a 763 operator some years ago. I remember Cuba within their overseas destinations, although the airline no longer operates wide-body equipment
48 yellowtail : If they add LIR only two (tourist) markets left on any size in C. America will be RTB and BZE
49 belizexp : Belize Airways Limited, established in 1976. Pax Routes MIA, BZE, SAP Cargo Route MBJ and Charters BAL had 5 Boeing 720 all have names eg. Belize Cit
50 Post contains images SJOtoLIR : Flores, Guatemala might be also forming part of that list. I think CO IAH-FRS tried to operate this route with no success. The intended CM PTY-LIR wo
51 Post contains images yellowtail : Not a chance. Remember SAHSA too? the PM flights are loaded on the web booking system and scheduled to start March 1 and will be 5 times weekly. RTB
52 2travel2know2 : CM return to DAV would also be essential to further develop western Panama (Chirilqui and Bocas provinces) as leisure markets. Saw DAV last weekend a
53 SJOtoLIR : Yes, but as far as I remember SAHSA didn't launch dedicated flights into SAP-BZE; this possibly wasn't the situation on BAL. SAHSA's [SAP-BZE] segmen
54 viaggiare : When (what year) was this? TACA has bullied its rivals for years, even before the parrot cartel formally came to be and their monopolistic practices
55 2travel2know2 : I don't think CM would have driven TA out of business, but reduce it to what it was before it took over Aviateca, SAHSA, Nica and LACSA. Salvadoreans
56 Post contains images viaggiare : I wonder what would a reduced–to–its–minimum–expression TACA look like in this 21st century.
57 viaggiare : Clearly must have been after 1980 when the Kriete family (currently associated with the Dueñas, Araujo Eserski and Palomo Déneke families) went fro
58 yellowtail : It was sometime in the early 80's.
59 Post contains images copa330200 : Last week I had the opportunity to flight a couple of times on CM 737800 with the new Boeing interiors and I've to recognize they are really nice, sli
60 Post contains links and images viaggiare : "Nobody knows Belize like TACA" — all three images dated 1990 and courtesy of the aomd88 airline memorabilia blog.
61 yellowtail : They owned BZE and they blew it by being presumptuous and arrogant. They thought no one would ever fly CO or AA so they would (for example) on a ligh
62 mt99 : Maybe they were just thinking about Copa, and they have right on the money on that one (so far!)
63 Post contains images mt99 : Dont forget, they drained the blood of puppies and ate little children too... (and took Viaggiarre's; candies and lunch money too!)
64 Post contains images viaggiare : Wake me up when you can finally get the spelling right.
65 Post contains images yellowtail : Its Viaggiare ..not to be confused with Viagra or Vinaigrette
66 Post contains images viaggiare : Exactly. Capisci mt99?
67 Post contains images mt99 : I think its more related to Vinaigrette .. based on the acid reflux he lives with every time you mention TACA Viaggiare.. there.. That was hard!
68 mt99 : Capisco benissimo![Edited 2011-12-15 10:58:37]
69 Post contains images viaggiare : Not really gastric.. albeit most definitely nauseating.
70 SJOtoLIR : KL AMS-PTY will finally operate on a daily basis from March 25th. Planned 772 operation shelved. . It's noteworthy how the former TACA operated in Bel
71 Post contains links and images belizexp : I forgot to add SAL but the plan was to add more destination in Central American and the Caribbean.
72 luisde8cd : Guys, I've heard a rumor that CM's new B738 Sky Interior planes will arrive with AVOD IFE in Y. Can somebody confirm this? The first plane will be app
73 2travel2know2 : CM is supposed to be getting a brand new B737 every 8-10 weeks. I didn't even know that the new B737-800 Sky interior had C class AVOD IFE.
74 yellowtail : plus the SAL and SAP flights. And don't forget they used to have BZE-FRS-GUA too
75 2travel2know2 : For goodness sake TA even had a SAL-BZE-MBJ once..
76 Post contains images mt99 : My (humble) opinion is that in those days CO, AA and the rest, were not really interested in BZE, leaving the pie to TA. When AA, CO and DL decided t
77 2travel2know2 : When CM started MEX with B737-200 that could had been a good time for BZE to get CM. I have no clue if by that time BZE had thought of enticing CM to
78 Post contains images yellowtail : Same place most of the tourists are from that go to SJO, GUA and MBJ and NAS. And CM serves there. Always been traffic, always will be. Sent 3 friend
79 Post contains images mt99 : I assume that you are saying than they come from the US. Compared to AA and CO, Copa and TACA have virtually no presence in North America. I think it
80 yellowtail : At the fare they had to pay...the big bus would have been profitable.
81 SJOtoLIR : My perception is that people in the forum is only thinking in the profitability at BZE through connecting passengers from North America when the airl
82 2travel2know2 : I strongly believe there are quite a few destinations in The Caribbean which could support CM flights at least twice weekly right now, other than BZE
83 SJOtoLIR : CM PTY-SXM started as 2x weekly and it was already increased to 4x weekly. CUR would be likely the next destination listed above, taking into conside
84 mt99 : What? You must be kidding. I though TACA was the only one with high prices!! I am shocked and appalled. All the other airlines in the region fly you
85 SJOtoLIR : That simply means that the scuba group should utilize the services of Continental Airlines instead of Copa Airlines. Regards.
86 yellowtail : Actually they have figured out...jsut a matter of everything coming together....
87 Post contains images 2travel2know2 : Hope CM doesn't mean the day of an Aliment of the Planets on a Blue Moon. I've high hopes for BZE as one of CM new destinations soon. They would fly
88 mt99 : Right- so how does that help to get a PTY-BZE flight? Directly to BZE? Can i suggest a motto: "PTY-BZE it took us 20 years to figure it out"?
89 LAXLocal : I still think AA flying non-stop LAX-BZE in the spring and summer would be profitable. Maybe just sat-sun, but with the huge Belizean population here
90 viaggiare : There's plenty of indicators in the tea leaves that both BZE and LIR could be announced next year, perhaps even simultaneously. Just last week a top
91 Post contains images SJOtoLIR : Happy Birthday, Cent Am aviation thread ! December 2006 - December 2011. Five long years ! . I've been reading the same argument through the five year
92 Post contains images mt99 : But you making the poor scuba group drive 2 hours to get to EWR. and they want to fly our out PHL See its not convenient How about a group from Cinci
93 2travel2know2 : Before jumping into conclusions, did you check the group fare offered to the scuba group out of EWR (or IAD) compared to flying out of PHL?
94 mt99 : How can I? the flight to BZE from PTY does not exist, so unless you have some way of calculation fares for non-existent flights..[Edited 2011-12-18 1
95 yellowtail : We'll see..... Yes, 4 flights happened then DL pulled the plug on LAX-C.America as a whole. the LAX-BZE did so well for those four experimental fligh
96 2travel2know2 : I'm not going to do the math of a non-existent PTY-BZE flight. But I replied that because someone earlier on this same forum assumed CM flew into BZE
97 aer : Not as a whole they didn't hehe, the only thing that GUA did excel at LOL
98 Post contains images SJOtoLIR : I will repeat my reply 81: "My perception is that people in the forum is only thinking in the profitability at BZE through connecting passengers from
99 mt99 : That someone was me. You can say that. Its not really a secret. You are the one that brought up group fares.. In any case - you helped illustrate my
100 2travel2know2 : Do we agree that we agree on that? I knew that routing was an inconvenience too from the moment it was brought up. Related or not, I had passengers (
101 SJOtoLIR : TA BZE-SAL + TA SAL-LIM + TA LIM-Brazil [POA, BSB, GRU and GIG] TA BZE-SAL + TA SAL-LIM + TA LIM-EZE Two layovers on the route. It's not available ev
102 yellowtail : Getting word that PM will also start 2Xweek BZE-LCE service in March (along with SAP and RTB). They will try to have it connect with the KX service to
103 mt99 : But that doesn't change their passports... The data you provided was for passports not "arrivals" That works out to about 18 passengers per day this
104 yellowtail : A quirk of the system entrenched in a bureaucracy. They were being counted as I mentioned. Effec Jan first, they are being counted by passport type,
105 2travel2know2 : Those numbers did include Brazilians and Argentinians arriving Belize by Cruise for day visits? Don't know what is the red-tape with Brazilian and Ar
106 yellowtail : No. I think that was changed no too long ago. I know it was for a bunch of S. American countries and was the main reason MBJ got its CM service.
107 Post contains images luisde8cd : This a picture of the new AVOD IFE system for Copa.
108 mt99 : Thats look great! Huge screens!
109 Post contains images 2travel2know2 : CM long-haul flights just began to feel much shorter.. With that kind of AVOD IFE, I'd not mind 10 hours on a B737-700ER flying between PTY and MAD.
110 yellowtail : Still need a bit more legroom if you ask me.
111 Post contains images copa330200 : uao !!! that's looks great !!!! I had a couple of flight on the new sky interiors but regular fall down screens .. this is a big improvement !! reall
112 SHAQ : If the want to compete with LATAM, they have to incorporate such things! WiFi would be very good! Do you think we'll se flat beds someday on 737s?} I
113 2travel2know2 : Flat beds for rather small aircraft flying less than 7h30m?
114 SJOtoLIR : TA SAL-BZE has altered its schedule allowing arrivals in the morning and afternoon, making it possible to shift South American passengers through SAL
115 avi8 : Are all aircraft being fitted with AVOD? If so, this would bea huge improvement for Copa, I'd fly them any day. Also a new modern livery wouldn't hurt
116 AA767LOVER : I would do nothing to touch the livery. It's quite sharp as it is. AVOD - if it is not the same one providing AC's entertainment - that'll be fine. Pr
117 avi8 : That airplane looks like an EMB-190. Awesome interior
118 viaggiare : I agree.. crisp and clean plus it closely resembles the CO/UA livery (without the ugly serif font) which is so good it survived a mega–merger.
119 wingedtaurus : AM is flying MEX-SAP 7X a week, up from 6. That's good news. I always wondered why MEX-Mga did not work. Hope they open MEX-SAL soon. A.
120 andrefranca : You're serious? cause timatic still says we need a visa! now only Grenada, US (now quite easy to obtain and valid for 10 years business/leisure multi
121 SJOtoLIR : Neither TA nor MX in the past flew the MGA-MEX segment. MX did fly the MEX-SAL segment and that market nowadays is only served by TA. Regards.
122 2travel2know2 : CM did, because its B737-200 couldn't fly MEX-PTY non-stop. French Guyana requires visas for Brazilians but the rest of France don't? Thought Surinam
123 SJOtoLIR : Wasn't CM PTY-SAP-MEX instead, 20 years ago ?
124 yellowtail : Guess the Gov't folsk haven't gotten around to updating that!
125 andrefranca : Funny isn't it?, but it's because of a looot of gold seekers and prostitutes were crossing the border to mess up in Cayennes, so the french Guyanese
126 2travel2know2 : When CM started MEX, it was 4 weekly PTY-SAP-MEX, when it went daily, CM added thrice weekly PTY-MGA-PTY. I believe since Honduras wasn't served at t
127 Post contains links viaggiare : According to local daily La Nación the consortium responsible for building and operating the new LIR terminal building is being fined US$67K (out of
128 yellowtail : MW (Maya Island Air) seems to have gotten themselves (leased), a Twin Otter to use on the BZE-SPR high volume runs...so MW will be operating that agai
129 viaggiare : No match any way one looks at it lol.
130 yellowtail : Depends, tourists see twin engine and think better. Certainly not better on the lessee's bank account. They guzzle fuel compared to the 208s and they
131 viaggiare : True.. and the oversized windows could possibly be another draw.
132 yellowtail : DL putting a 320 on ATL-BZE some days starting in April....was MD80. There goes my spotting variety. But they have to, they need the cargo space. Many
133 Post contains images 2travel2know2 : Where are the seasonal back-up flights out of DL MEM hub to some destinations when needed?
134 Post contains links and images viaggiare : Today local daily La Nación reports a 40% increase in passenger traffic at SJO during the holiday season. Happy new year to all!
135 yellowtail : Y over Y?
136 viaggiare : Negative.. daily traffic since 15DEC with respect to high season average.
137 Post contains images mt99 : This time from Beautiful Antigua Guatemala.. Happy New Year to all
138 SJOtoLIR : Summary of the main events of the Central American commercial aviation throughout 2011: January 03: TA LIM-CUZ 13 to 21x weekly January 04: TA LIM-ANF
139 avi8 : Excellent summary. Very much appreciated. HAPPY NEW YEAR! Just out of curiosity, what are your predictions for future airline expansion for each count
140 SJOtoLIR : Well, I'll leave my opinion even though I don't want to fall into a high speculative tone: El Salvador: AeroMexico or InterJet. Honduras: Tropic Air
141 Post contains images copa330200 : PTY will see new carriers; likely LH and B6 CM widebody order, likely 787
142 MSYtristar : Hoping for PTY-MSY or something like PTY-SAP-MSY. Stranger things have happened I guess.I just want to see some sort of Central America service from
143 Post contains images yellowtail : While we are into hypotheticals let me give you my unqualified predictions B6 JFK-RTB/BZE/GUA - Nov 2012 CM- PTY-BZE / GCM / CUR - Nov 2012 WN AUS/SAT
144 SJOtoLIR : I think that more than new airlines flying to Central America in 2012, we will primarily see a further expansion of destinations and frequencies heade
145 Post contains links CM767 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B29fIQF_enw&feature=player_embedded#! This in an interview to Juan Carlos Pino, PTY General Manager. He confirms th
146 Post contains images andrefranca : That's very good news indeed! that would be a dream, GCM is very isolated and only catering to US market, I think they should give south/central amer
147 SJOtoLIR : Grand Cayman Island used to be served by LACSA from Costa Rica in the past. I think the last flight was in 1983. Regards.
148 aer : A bit late but I hope you guys had a great holiday season and wish you a happy new year. Would be: nice but I would add MCO odd but then again they ma
149 yellowtail : Based on what I know....I wouldn't....for C. America at least in 2012. why is it odd....nice central location....2-3 hours flying time (stage length
150 SJOtoLIR : TACA already flies SAL-GUA-ORD 4x weekly plus SAL-ORD 2x weekly and both allocations are holding the UA designator. I found no justification on UA fo
151 avi8 : The GUA-ORD flight tand vice-versa is poorly timed for connections in ORD. The flight is mostly O/D with the help of a few pax connecting at SAL and t
152 SJOtoLIR : TACA operates 48x weekly flights in California: TA SAL-LAX 21x weekly TA SAL-GUA-LAX 10x weekly TA SJO-LAX 4x weekly TA SAL-SFO 13x weekly Regards.
153 avi8 : Your point being....?? Am I lost or were we discussing routes from Chicago to Central America? I don't mean to sound rude or mean, I'm just a bit con
154 viaggiare : I agree on those three.. although for some arcane reason you omit LIR thus compromising your entire prediction lol. Wow.. Southwest! That would be co
155 2travel2know2 : Seems CM has the patience to wait for B787 and will not settle for B767-300ER ASAP. Great news! Like BZE and PTY? Finally something that makes sense
156 avi8 : Well, SFO has closer runways than PTY so I don't understand why simultaneous landings aren't allowed. I guess all of these are good predictions, let's
157 Post contains images SJOtoLIR : My friend, it's simply a separate topic related to the Central American aviation and obviously has nothing to do with the mentioned operations in Chi
158 Post contains links viaggiare : Simply put, because SFO has PRM/SOIA approaches (since 2004) whereas PTY does not.
159 Post contains images SJOtoLIR : The following illustration shows the expansion plan at PTY in the southern border of the existing terminal: Source: Copa Airlines. "The Hub of the Ame
160 yellowtail : Can the ATR do KIN-PTY? KIN-GUA would do really well ....if they don't do it someone like TAG will.
161 aer : That's true, a flight that was better suited for connections would be best. Not sure there's a market, and I really don't know where does one go to g
162 2travel2know2 : I think it could, but maybe the ATR wouldn't be suitable for that route since is a cargo/baggage intensive route. BW could also try something like MB
163 Post contains links 2travel2know2 : Tender Expansion of PTY From http://www.centralamericadata.com - IN ENGLISH 3rd Runway and South Terminal (with its own immigration and customs, so no
164 Post contains links viaggiare : Good point.. also there's about 2,750 feet of lateral separation between 03L/21R (aka la pista del aeropuerto viejo as it was built in 1947) and 03R/
165 SJOtoLIR : My vote for the location of the third runway at PTY is a new strip totally parallel to the current 03R/21L runway. . Agreed. For example, KX operates
166 2travel2know2 : IMHO, ideally quite far away from that runway. CM could get connecting passengers from the arriving red-eyes flights and any other very early morning
167 SJOtoLIR : I have a new perspective for the operations in Chicago: What about if neither TACA nor COPA might be interested in developing a hub in Chicago? They c
168 Post contains links and images viaggiare : Despite some "minor issues" such as exposed wiring and the absence of any office furniture in Customs, Immigration, Public Health, and Agriculture fac
169 yellowtail : and struggles badly on it. LFS are very hot and cold. But since it is a Gov't route, it stays.
170 2travel2know2 : Where's that tag-on to BZE when is needed?
171 Post contains links 2travel2know2 : Airport passenger security fee now USD1.25 From www.prensa.com - in Spanish The proposed PTY airport passenger security fee will not be USD2.50 as it
172 Post contains links viaggiare : An interesting article that goes into detail about several looming decisions AV/TA has this year with regard to, among other issues, their branding an
173 Post contains links viaggiare : I wasn't aware of this flight.. appears to have been going on for over two years now.
174 Post contains links viaggiare : Speaking of LCE the Cámara de Turismo de La Ceiba has an online survey aimed at providing "fuentes y cifras verificables" to several airlines they ap
175 yellowtail : not many are. It is mainly aimed at the honduran populations that work in GCM
176 Post contains links 2travel2know2 : PTY North Concourse finished 99% From www.tvn-2-com - in Spanish PTY Tocumen Airport USD100Million brand new North Concourse is 99% ready and willl be
177 Post contains images viaggiare : Great news.. looking forward to the aceras móviles (moving walkways) already.
178 Post contains links viaggiare : Connecting passengers at PTY will soon be able to entertain themselves at a bingo hall and/or with twenty slot machines as they await their flight dep
179 2travel2know2 : The concession for the slot-machines was given outside a public bid and it has been challenged, criticised harshly by the media.
180 viaggiare : Lots of things being done as if running a Súper 99 nowadays.. so what's next for Tocumen, a massage parlor?
181 Post contains links viaggiare : Panamá tops the New York Times list of 45 places to visit in 2012 and the remote Costa Rican jungle community of Nosara (in the northwest province of
182 Post contains images yellowtail : Congrats to PTY and I will spare you the long litany of articles that put BZE in the top 10 for 2012 this time
183 viaggiare : Absolutely and every bit of exposure helps.. however this is arguably the most respected and influential newspaper in the world (average circulation
184 yellowtail : Yeah , I agree the NYT is not exacty Prensa Libre
185 Post contains images aer : Now that will make me laugh all Sunday and Monday long LOL
186 Post contains links 2travel2know2 : CM passenger figures up 20% from last year From www.prensa.com - in Spanish. CM's Chief Pedro Heilbron announced that 8.8million passengers flew CM la
187 Post contains images yellowtail : Highly unlikely BZE is part of those 4 but the 1-3 left for later in the year ..maybe Suspect we might see 1 N. America, maybe BGI, maybe GCM and may
188 2travel2know2 : My bets are on LAS, LIR, BZE, AQP, FOR and/or SSA, SCU, BGI and/or GEO and perhaps GCM. No need to bet on CM return to DAV. BOS, SFO, TPA, FLL, IQT,
189 Post contains links SJOtoLIR : PTY managed over 6 million of passengers in 2011; so these figures could also consider the domestic and international participation of Copa Airlines
190 viaggiare : Since we're taking bets, I will put my two cents in and go with a two–round package of announcements.. 1st round (tba later this month — effectiv
191 yellowtail : Looks like a good sequence. I know BGI and TPA were pushing CM very hard.
192 2travel2know2 : If CM starts PVR it'll be to please the Mexican authorities and IMHO, a destination not really needed rightnow, I just can't imagine PVR drawing so m
193 yellowtail : I agree. Incidentally...left out of my speculations was CUR. Surely CUR is on the final list as they have been dancing for some time.
194 wingedtaurus : What are the biggest routes out of PTY? I guess BOG and? Saludos A.
195 Post contains images SJOtoLIR : I would dare to spare my subjective sequence. According to realistic contributions in this forum before, there are indications that the next destinati
196 2travel2know2 : LIR acceptable and feasible destinations for CM network, same as SSA and REC, CM flying to PVR and SJD, I repeat it again, would be CM thanking Mexic
197 Post contains images viaggiare : Cool.. although I seem to be going up against shotgun–style psychics firing off a volley of predictions. Hmm c'mon be specific.. So is it or is it
198 SJOtoLIR : I would elaborate the information even better: Top destinations out of PTY, in terms of seats provided: 1. San Jose 2. Bogota 3. Miami 4. Caracas 5.
199 2travel2know2 : I'd rather not take Mr Hellbron number of new destinations for 2012 literally.
200 viaggiare : So you think he's slow playing this for some reason?
201 Post contains links SJOtoLIR : The thread has once again solidly overstepped the mark of the 200 entries; so it must be archived now. Please, continue the discussions in the new edi
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