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Could An A330 Base Charter Airline Work In The US?  
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3505 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 8 months 11 hours ago) and read 4618 times:

Could an A330 base charter airline or low fares airline, work here in the states. The A330 seem to be a great jet for charters, due to its size being larger than a 767 but not as large as a 777. With a good military contract, I think it would work. Now on the low fares airline side, it would be a good ideal to have three weekly flights to Europe, but in Jet Blue style, with Wi Fi, extra leg room and may be even leather seats. So could it work?

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 11 hours ago) and read 4612 times:

Yeah maybe it could! If they flew to Europe, I'd think they could do well flying intol places like LGW and ORY etc...


3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30623 posts, RR: 84
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 11 hours ago) and read 4562 times:
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I could see the early model A330-300LGWs becoming popular with charter operators. The have sufficient range to reach Western Europe from the Eastern United States. They are also cheap to buy (and only getting cheaper) and will also have significantly lower operating costs than the DC-10s and L-1011s some charter operators are currently using thanks to much lower fuel and maintenance costs.

User currently offlineUnited727 From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 399 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 11 hours ago) and read 4551 times:

Well, I don't know if this is a fitting answer or not, but this has already happened, albeit small! Ryan International out of RFD just made out on a sweet deal from Sir Richard Branson/VS. They just purchased two - A330's and now have them in service running DOD/Military and any other charter work that comes there way. I just saw one of them the other day here being preped for a departure. They were going to go the route of the B777 or B747, but apparently changed their mind and now operate the A330!


Looking for the impossible way to save those dying breeds!!!!
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 4 hours ago) and read 4197 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
The A330 seem to be a great jet for charters, due to its size being larger than a 767 but not as large as a 777.

Frankly I think that early 777s are a better choice for charter operations than A330s due to their lower purchase prices and larger capacity (remember that charters sell the whole plane, so load factor isn't that important). Beyond that I think that DoD gives their charter carriers a good deal on fuel at military installations, so the extra fuel burn is minimized.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 3 hours ago) and read 4136 times:

There's only so much military work, all you'd do by chasing that work is force the established carriers like Omni and Ryan to race to the bottom to keep the newcomer out.

On the airline side, you might be able to make it work, but you can't have the plane in use only 3 flights a week. Ypu should be able to get at least 5-6 rotation from the US east coast to Europe a week.

You'd need a partner to fill the airplanes. Operate as a scheduled charter, like Direct Air does, except you'd actually run an airline, instead of contracting the airline service out to any fly by night operation who will work for what you are willing to pay. This will ensure operational integrity.

The partner can be travel agencies, tour companies, travel clubs, cruise lines, etc. You as the operator set the price for the charter, not the price per seat. The travel agency takes the risk of filling the seats at a price that allows them to make a profit. The seller could sell seats only, or bundle the flights with hotels, cars etc. You require the seller of the seats to post a bond to guarantee that you get paid.

You need to be close to a major market. Think SWF (NYC), PSM (BOS) or BWI (maybe). Find markets on the other side of the pond with no service and lots of ethnic traffic (BUD or KRK for example), or plan to serve secondary airports (STN, HHN, CIA). Then schedule the plane to do as much flying as you can, allowing time for scheduled maintenance of course. Might be something like 2 weekly SWF-BUD, 2 weekly SWF-STN, 1 weekly SWF-KRK, 1 weekly SWF-BTS. Find an airport that is willing to keep your costs down by absorbing landing fees or by providing ground handling. The airport makes money off passenger facility charges, duty free sales, etc. The local community makes money off taxes paid by visitors (hotels, cars, VAT) and jobs are created to support the tourism.

JetBlue style service? Absolutely not. Charters cater to the most price sensitive customer. You are guaranteeing your basic margin by outsourcing the seat sales to the tour company or travel agent. But there will be ancillary revenue to be made. Baggage, meals, IFE access, wifi? It's all extra. The cruise line, travel agent, etc, can choose to include it for their customer, but it means they'll have to cover the cost of providing it. Or you can sell it at check in. Either way, that ancillary revenue can be maximized. Friendly, professional service, yes. Giving product away to customers who won't pay for it? No.

The problem with charter operators here is that you generally don't know what you get. The european charter operators have generally done a much better job establishing a brand for their product, and set service standards and expectations. If a similar carrier could be launched here, it could be successful if done right.

It's a theory....


User currently offlineirshava From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 3 hours ago) and read 4116 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 5):
Might be something like 2 weekly SWF-BUD

God if only that were true



“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 2 hours ago) and read 4093 times:

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 5):
If a similar carrier could be launched here, it could be successful if done right.

USA3000 did well for awhile with scheduled ops, alongside of its Apple Vacations partnership, particularly in the PHL area, where U5 is headquartered, Alas, the high cost of jet fuel ended its ops, with the last scheduled flight to take place next month. U5 used new-ish A320s, served hot meals throughout coach, and had a nice friendly customer-oriented feel. I flew them several times from PHL to the Tampa/St. Pete area and back to PHL - and was very pleased with the low fares (IIRC I paid under $100 USD for a flight to Tampa, but that was 3 or 4 years ago).



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlinedispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3832 times:

Quoting United727 (Reply 3):
They just purchased two - A330's and now have them in service running DOD/Military and any other charter work that comes there way.

They are not in service yet - a lot has to happen before a new aircraft type for your airline can be a part of your certificate, the first A330 just came west not too long ago.

And from what I hear from people at Ryan is that they lost the DoD contract. I am former RD myself, and I wouldnt be surprised.



Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineUnited727 From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 399 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3720 times:

Quoting dispatchguy (Reply 8):
They are not in service yet

One of them flew last Wednesday o/b from RFD (fully catered and with 2 pilots + 4 F/A's??)

Quoting dispatchguy (Reply 8):
And from what I hear from people at Ryan is that they lost the DoD contract. I am former RD myself

Hadn't heard that around here. I'll have to do some digging. On a side note, are you the reason they're currently looking for a dispatcher? They've been looking for one for months!



Looking for the impossible way to save those dying breeds!!!!
User currently offlinedispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3666 times:

Hmm, mustve been a proving run, for I dont even think that they have had the tabletop exercises yet - at least not the ones for credit...

Flightaware does show it having gone to SFB (N771RD), my guess a proving run or a training run to get people spun up to working it...

I'm not the only one that left - 2 left in January (to UAL - one of those was a damned good dispatcher, I miss working with her), myself, I've heard a couple more got shown that UAL love, only a couple left - and with that 10 hour max duty day, not much additional work that can be piled on...



Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3288 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3486 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 7):
USA3000 did well for awhile with scheduled ops, alongside of its Apple Vacations partnership

It wasn't really a partnership, U5 was owned by the same parent as Apple Vacations. That made it hard, if not impossible to expand their customer base away from Apple. Being independent of the of the tour operator/travel agent/cruise line would allow this carrier to expand their customer base. I don't think Apple was ever able to gain maximum efficiency out of the fleet. F9 is going to provide lift for Apple which will alow them to better utilize their existing fleet.


User currently offlineFly2yyz From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 1039 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3311 times:

Its funny how charters work wonders in Canada but not in the US....wonder if TS had ever thought of expanding their market down to the US?

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24906 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3293 times:

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 12):
Its funny how charters work wonders in Canada but not in the US....wonder if TS had ever thought of expanding their market down to the US?
TS has long been a scheduled carrier. Almost all their flights are displayed and bookable in the major GDS systems. It's true that a lot of their capacity is sold by tour wholesalers (in many cases their own in-house companies...a major secret of TS's success) but you can still book TS flights like any other scheduled carrier on a seat-only basis.

[Edited 2011-12-04 14:54:33]

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15719 posts, RR: 26
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3271 times:

Quoting Fly2yyz (Reply 12):
Its funny how charters work wonders in Canada but not in the US...

  There are three airlines in America that do exactly that, one of them incredibly successfully even in a poor economy, and some others that do it as a portion of their business. They just aren't flying overseas like TS since Americans don't travel overseas as much.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3183 times:

I'd like to see a US charter company using A330s to link Europe and Alaska. I think tourists would love to see all that arctic wilderness and they could support the cruise market.

Alaska must have a lot to offer the modern winter tourist.


User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3505 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3074 times:

Quoting Babybus (Reply 15):
I'd like to see a US charter company using A330s to link Europe and Alaska. I think tourists would love to see all that arctic wilderness and they could support the cruise market.

Alaska must have a lot to offer the modern winter tourist.




Now That is not a bad ideal, if I had own an A330, I would try this, and see what happens.


User currently offlineGiancavia From Vatican City, joined Feb 2010, 1310 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2900 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 16):
Now That is not a bad ideal, if I had own an A330, I would try this, and see what happens.

You would probably lose a ****load of money and wonder why you just didnt do flights to Austria/Switzerland/Russia/Finland and 2892127 other closer places with snow and mountains.

Just my opinion of course.


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