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Alaska And Their Relationship With Other Carriers  
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7448 times:

As I sit looking over some forms I began to think about AS and their very unique position as a network carrier that not only encompases an entire region but uses it to their advantage by feeding many carriers and being "fed" in their key hubs.

The term code-share whore is usually thrown around and I've used it myself in the past but I don't mean it in a negative way. I absolutely think its a brilliant way of doing business especially when you're considered THE airline in many markets wear others are significantly weaker or not present at all with their own metal but rather by putting a code on AS flights.

So, I thought we could list and discuss the various agreements AS has with the other network carriers and which are more beneficial than others when it comes to FFs. One last thing. I know AS flies to several cities where they may only have one or two flights a day so are staffed by OAL or a contractor. In ATL, MSP and EWR, they are handled by DL. Any other stations where they are handled by Mother D or other airlines such as AA?


What gets measured gets done.
61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7407 times:

Well, as an opening comment, AS and DL have a very cozy relationship. To the point where DL elites get upgrades on AS and vice versa. Also, DL codeshares on AS.

AA, UA also have codeshares with AS.

In both cases of AA and UA, one of the key advantages is frequent flights to Alaska, which would not be possible for any of the carriers alone.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2765 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7380 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 1):
AA, UA also have codeshares with AS.

Where do AS and UA have codeshares? Didn't know that they did.

Also, the AS code share foreign-flag (as well as domestic) carriers are listed below, as per AS's website:

Air France
Air Pacific
American Airlines
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
Delta Air Lines
Era Alaska
Icelandair
Kenmore Air
KLM
Korean Air
LAN
PenAir
Qantas

http://www.alaskaair.com/content/tra...ur-trip/codeshare-information.aspx

Quite impressive.......


User currently offlinenutsaboutplanes From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 505 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7354 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 1):
AA, UA also have codeshares with AS.
UA does not codeshare with AS.....there is bad blood between the two and AS has made it a mission to force the "shrinkage" of UA in the PACNW.   

They have had great success in this mission as UA has done nothing but shrink in Seattle......now they just need to get CO off of the SEA - ANC run just as they did with UA a few years ago.

They do however interline PAX and Bags on an unlimited basis.   

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Thread starter):
In ATL, MSP and EWR, they are handled by DL. Any other stations where they are handled by Mother D or other airlines such as AA?
DL also does the ground handling at IAH and I believe MCO but I am not sure about MIA.....anybody know for sure?

[Edited 2011-12-03 14:13:51]


American Airlines, US Airways, Alaska Airlines, Northwest Airlines, America West Airlines, USAFR
User currently offlineThreeIfByAir From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 699 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7269 times:

DCA is handled by DL
ORD is handled by AA

I don't know BOS or MIA - those are the only two AS transcons I'm missing.


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5716 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7208 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 2):
Also, the AS code share foreign-flag (as well as domestic) carriers are listed below, as per AS's website:

Air France
Air Pacific
American Airlines
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
Delta Air Lines
Era Alaska
Icelandair
Kenmore Air
KLM
Korean Air
LAN
PenAir
Qantas

Interesting.
6 of 14 are OneWorld (FJ, AA, BA, CX, LA & QF)
4 of 14 are SkyTeam (AF, DL, KL, KE)
The remaining 4 are AFAIK unaligined
So no StarA!

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13650 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7203 times:
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Quoting ThreeIfByAir (Reply 4):
I don't know BOS or MIA - those are the only two AS transcons I'm missing.

BOS = DL
MIA = Swissport



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3160 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7134 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 5):
Interesting.
6 of 14 are OneWorld (FJ, AA, BA, CX, LA & QF)
4 of 14 are SkyTeam (AF, DL, KL, KE)
The remaining 4 are AFAIK unaligined
So no StarA!

No, in fact recall that AS and CO used to be FF and code-share partners until CO jumped ship to Star. They soon after ended their partnerships.


User currently offlineordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 718 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7111 times:

AS has found it works better to play the field a bit and work with anyone (except UA and star). AS covers a big enough niche that is gets into a symbiosis with other carriers. They provide each other feed which either of them alone would have a hard time sustaining these routes. Also AA is extremely cozy with AS. Earn and burn, you can get up to AA exp flying on AS metal.

User currently offlinegmcc From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6980 times:

There is also a rumor that with the arrival of EK at SEA there might be something in the works with EK. That would make things interesting,

User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 993 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6938 times:

I'd love to see AS hire their own employees in HNL and OGG....with this winter's schedule having flights morning noon and night it seems they could justify having their own people. It might be more the cost involved with leasing and building their own ticket counter/check-in space.

User currently offlineANCsupercub From United States of America, joined May 2007, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 6927 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Thread starter):
In ATL, MSP and EWR, they are handled by DL. Any other stations where they are handled by Mother D or other airlines such as AA?

I believe dl does their handling in HNL (I would guess the rest of Hawaii as well) which is surprising given the number of flight out of their a day.


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6801 times:

Quoting gmcc (Reply 9):

[quote=gmcc,reply=9]There is also a rumor that with the arrival of EK at SEA there might be something in the works with EK. That would make things interesting.

I am sure that both AS & EK need this relationship to fill a daily 777 to DXB. I have said this from the moment I saw the route announced. EK would be fools to not use the AS system in the entire NW region to help fill their plane, especialy from PDX.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5929 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6601 times:
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Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 3):
UA does not codeshare with AS.....there is bad blood between the two and AS has made it a mission to force the "shrinkage" of UA in the PACNW.

They have had great success in this mission as UA has done nothing but shrink in Seattle......now they just need to get CO off of the SEA - ANC run just as they did with UA a few years ago.

I think the next step is closing the Skywest EMB-120 operation.


User currently offlineDL747400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6365 times:

On word describes the relationship that AS has with DL and AS........... Dating.

AS is not yet engaged, but they have a pretty good idea of where they want to end up.


User currently offlineandrewuber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 40
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6290 times:

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 14):

If you're hinting at merger - nobody can afford to buy AS. With a stock price over eight times more valuable than DL's and nearly $2 billion in the bank, AS is not going to be absorbed by anyone soon.



I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6282 times:

Alaska is one of my favorite airlines, good staff/service and new planes. Good ontime performance as well. By far my favorite US airline.

But, why is a "relationship" with AS so sought after? And what makes people think AA/AS should merge? Or DL/AS?

Quoting DL747400 (Reply 14):

On word describes the relationship that AS has with DL and AS........... Dating.

AS is not yet engaged, but they have a pretty good idea of where they want to end up.

Dating, or (as per facebook) "it's complicated?"



Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlineSuperDash From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 574 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6234 times:

Quoting gmcc (Reply 9):
There is also a rumor that with the arrival of EK at SEA there might be something in the works with EK. That would make things interesting,

I actually hope this is true. As a Gold, I can fly DL or AA or KL or AF or LA and get EQMs toward my AS Gold status. While AS has marketing relationships that do not provide status with carriers like BA, CX, KE and QF, if EK fell into that category that would be fine with me. I can get AS miles anywhere I fly. The new AA relationship means FREE BAGS now on both AA and DL and Early Board. That means I will do what I can to keep AS Gold. And there in lies the brilliance of their relationships with other carriers. Keep up the good work Alaska (and Horizon).

As for EK, they need to add AS code to their DXB flight and their connecting flights to India...why?...two words... OH CANADA! (EK won't be allowed to put their code on AS flights to Canada, but nothing prevents them from adding the AS code on their flights). That alone would fill a daily Q400 from YVR.


User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2834 posts, RR: 45
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6224 times:

Quoting andrewuber (Reply 15):
With a stock price over eight times more valuable than DL's and nearly $2 billion in the bank

I don't buy into the school that says that Alaska is looking for a merger, but bringing up share price without discussing the number of outstanding shares is meaningless. What are the market caps of the two? It's a very different answer.


User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3508 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6224 times:

Quoting gmcc (Reply 9):
There is also a rumor that with the arrival of EK at SEA there might be something in the works with EK. That would make things interesting,

EK would have to be nuts not to aggressively pursue this relationship. I suspect we'll see an announcement sometime in the next few months, it simply makes too much sense to not make it happen.

Quoting andrewuber (Reply 15):
If you're hinting at merger - nobody can afford to buy AS. With a stock price over eight times more valuable than DL's and nearly $2 billion in the bank, AS is not going to be absorbed by anyone soon.

Somehow, this flies right over the head of a lot of folks around here, but it's completely accurate. AS is an insanely expensive acquisition target and there's no chance that any of the remaining legacy carriers are going to have the cash to buy it out in the foreseeable future. For that matter, people forget that this "code-share" whore thing is a pretty good deal for DL, AA, etc. too...lots of connection opportunities for the customer with none of the expense of having to devote their own metal to the PNW/West Coast.

I can speak to the convenience of AS' numerous codeshare arrangements myself--I was able to fly SEA-HEL via LAX/CDG (yes, I know--connection hell) three years ago on AS/AF/AY using DL miles. Granted, AS was only a small part of that trip, but given the last-minute necessity of finding an alternative to any of the sold-out direct flights to AMS or CDG from SEA, having AS in that arrangement was handy.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8581 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6084 times:
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Quoting gemuser (Reply 5):
6 of 14 are OneWorld (FJ, AA, BA, CX, LA & QF)

You mean 5 of the 14. FJ are not part of OW

Quoting gemuser (Reply 5):
So no StarA!

Not really surprising. UA's services up and down the West Coast, while not as extensive as AS's services are adequate for *A carriers.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined exactly 10 years ago today! , 2779 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6069 times:

Quoting Gunsontheroof (Reply 19):
Somehow, this flies right over the head of a lot of folks around here, but it's completely accurate. AS is an insanely expensive acquisition target and there's no chance that any of the remaining legacy carriers are going to have the cash to buy it out in the foreseeable future.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Right now Alaska has a market cap around $2.5 Billion. United's is around $6.5 billion and Delta is a little over $7 billion. Using a combination of stock, their own cash and Alaska's cash, which they'd get when they buy the company, either UA or DL could likely come up with a reasonable offer.

The real reason not to buy Alaska is that the business case is shaky at best. In a merger one of the two big codeshares would disappear, likely causing a significant revenue hit to the Alaska network, which would have to be made up by additional network synergies and cost savings from the combined carrier. At the same time, savings from reduction of duplication might be negated as other aspects of the Alaska operation see costs rise to the higher cost structure of the acquiring airline.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8581 posts, RR: 13
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6040 times:
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Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 21):
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Right now Alaska has a market cap around $2.5 Billion. United's is around $6.5 billion and Delta is a little over $7 billion. Using a combination of stock, their own cash and Alaska's cash, which they'd get when they buy the company, either UA or DL could likely come up with a reasonable offer.

I thought that AS has some 'poison pill' arrangement to prevent a hostile takeover. Even if UA wanted to buy them out I would be surprised if they would be permitted to. Surely they are the two biggest operators up and down the West Coast , and I would think they must be two of the three biggest West Coast- Hawaii operators as well.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineasaad11 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 47 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5925 times:

I believe DL also handles AS in STL and soon to be MCI

User currently offlineAirlineCritic From Finland, joined Mar 2009, 728 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5810 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 2):
Also, the AS code share foreign-flag (as well as domestic) carriers are listed below, as per AS's website:

Air France
Air Pacific
American Airlines
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
Delta Air Lines
Era Alaska
Icelandair
Kenmore Air
KLM
Korean Air
LAN
PenAir
Qantas

This is interesting, just wondering how come there is no full-on alliance membership in, say, One World. I would be happy with AY status helping me on Alaska, for instance... But maybe AS is important enough player in its geographic area that it can negotiate interline and codeshare agreements with several big players, and this makes more sense to them than pairing with just one alliance.

Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 3):
They do however interline PAX and Bags on an unlimited basis.   

Yeah well, they do, but bags might get lost. Mine did.... could be BA's fault, too, however.


25 Dash8Driver16 : The reason Alaska is Successful is because it isn't part of Dl or AA. If they were bought out it would kill the intra alaska service as well as the br
26 ridgid727 : The only way I ever see AS being absorbed into the likes of DL, AA or UA, would be if a LLC hit Alaska with frequent flights to the lower 48, and last
27 FlyASAGuy2005 : How far fetched would it be to buy out the Alaska brand but maintain it as a fully independent entity under one holding company. I.e. SkyWest Inc. - A
28 GentFromAlaska : For many years AA use to be the primary courter of the cutest girl at the dance (AS) Reading this thread it seems DL may have surpassed what AA previo
29 Tomassjc : I believe the reason that AS initially did not hire their own staff on the Islands was to make sure that things were going to work out and be profita
30 md3 : This one's incorrect. Both stations are in-house Alaska employees upstairs. The only two in AS's "Eastern" Region where their own employees are staff
31 md3 : The 3rd party is DGS, for all 4 islands (I believe) going forward.
32 wedgetail737 : I believe Morris would continue to be successful today and might be a much larger airline with 737NG's or A320 family of airplanes. I heard that Morr
33 Tomassjc : Thanks md3...couldn't think of who it was without my coffee in hand! Tom AS SJC
34 united319 : DFW, IAH, and AUS are all operated by "Mother D". DFW used to be in hours IIRC but I am 100% positive it is not any longer.
35 FlyASAGuy2005 : This is all very interesting. I always wonder how airlines decide what's outsourced and what's not. As small as ANC is for DL, above and below wing a
36 RobertS975 : In BOS, there are three daily AS flights, two to SEA and one to PDX. All use the same DL gate and the flights are handled by DL personnel... gate agen
37 HiFlyerAS : This is spot-on...with AS''s code share partners they're able to offer service throughout the world without doing the actual flying themselves. I sup
38 dlramp4life : From where I have been I have mostly seen DGS servicing AS below wing... But it seems like AS is moving in with DL at most airports and also dumping
39 nutsaboutplanes : I don't believe the NW code share was ever "terminated". This was always one of the strongest relationships that AS had and when DL and NW merged, DL
40 JayinKitsap : AS is not a whore, it is a Courtesan, a big difference. Whores are out for the quick buck, but Courtesans want their customers very happy today so the
41 cschleic : As of Sept. 30 2011, AS had about $1.4 billion cash/investments (would have to look and see how those investments held), about $1.4 billion in debt, a
42 Post contains images EA CO AS : Wrong. AS is "friends with benefits" with both AA and DL - both carriers are important to AS, with neither being "closer" to AS.
43 FlyASAGuy2005 : The guy doesn't know what he's talking about and is full of it. DL employees DOES NOT clear ahead of ANY elite passenger into first wheather they're
44 cschleic : Thanks. His story didn't make sense, but I wanted to relate the experience to see if anyone had any interesting observations. As far as reciprocal be
45 dlflynhayn : Hmmmm the AS plane i was on from LAX-GDL-LAX was awfull,defentily not new planes.I wish DL was on this route still we at least had some drop down vid
46 Post contains images FlyASAGuy2005 : You're right. I have a trip report somewhere where I flew RDU-ATL. I had to get to Houston that day and non-reving on CO was a no go as everything wa
47 Post contains images EA CO AS : The LAX-GDL market is highly competitive and I guarantee you that the vast majority of customers on that route do not make their purchasing decisions
48 FlyASAGuy2005 : The only OAL employees that can ride F on DL are DCI carriers. OAL default to a Y code when activated on the airport standby list.
49 Post contains images ghifty : I only fly with AS from SNA-SEA.. so the video screen issue isn't an issue.
50 HiFlyerAS : The odds of this particular aircraft not being 'new' are slim...Alaska has one the youngest fleets in the industry. I think he's just whining because
51 enilria : B6 is attempting to do the same thing in NYC. DL has attempted to get AS board approval to acquire them at least twice. It will happen eventually bec
52 BoeingGuy : Anybody else, is this really true? This particular poster has often promoted AS getting bought out, so I don't believe it unless I hear it from someo
53 Post contains images Tomassjc : On AS, if there's room in F and you are on a DL S/A ticket (not an AS guest pass) AND you're nice...you'll get upgraded! Awful or not, if you were fl
54 toobz : Not true. I have been on many flights with OAL employees up front. DL is VERY good about upgrading other airliner standbys. Like said previously, DL
55 aznmadsci : I always thought AS had a good relationship with CO especially during the SkyTeam years. I remember the IAH-SEA flights, especially evening ones woul
56 BoeingGuy : Not sure this is totally true. AS started SEA-DFW; SEA-ORD, SEA-MSP and SEA-ATL but still getting love from DL and AA (and I'd heard that AA was mad
57 Nutsaboutplanes : It was a very strange time at AS. We were expanding into markets that were already served by our codeshare partners but it was a necessary part of gr
58 BoeingGuy : How come AS and AA don't code share on SEA-DFW like they do everywhere else? That's been an inconvenience sometimes. I'd prefer to take AS metal when
59 wedgetail737 : At least the tram station is nearby...making connections to AA a little more tolerable. I haven't seen CO/UA's 753's on the SEA-ANC for a little whil
60 BoeingGuy : Yeah, but as mentioned AA and AS don't code share on SEA-DFW so it isn't cost effective to buy a ticket to connect. I've done like SCL-DFW-SEA or LFT
61 FlyASAGuy2005 : Agents doing it and DL rules are two different things. OAL cabin jumpseaters always revert to a Y code by default. Same for station agreements and ze
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