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Pan Am 20 Years Gone  
User currently offlinepanam92 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 56 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 14318 times:
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4 December 1991 Pan Am last flight. Where did the years go.

86 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineirshava From Ukraine, joined Oct 2011, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 14333 times:

R.I.P Pan Am. You are missed.


“If you were born without wings, do nothing to prevent them from growing.”
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9089 posts, RR: 29
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 14101 times:

Glad someone remembered. I had that on my agenda for today as well.

Yes, indeed, one of the pioneers of aviation gone forever. Germany owes a lot to PanAm, especially Belrin for which it was the home carrier, together with BEA. I should be in Belrin today and raise the glass and the place to do that is the PanAm Lounge.

PanAm had style, PanAm had class, too bad they fell victim of over regulation even in de regulation.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 14096 times:

Wow, 20 years already. I still remember hearing the news on the BBC on the radio in my hotel room in Amsterdam that night.


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2741 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 14063 times:
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20 years! I thought they only cancelled it a week ago   ! It's a shame they aren't around! I would have loved to flown one of the original powerhouses of the industry.
Blue



You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
User currently online747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3393 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 14027 times:

I remember hearing about Pan Am going out of business, then seeing it on the news. I remember seeing on the news, a man crying about not being able to fly, to see ether a friend or a family member. Not to long after that, I saw an A300 or A310 with the Pan Am livery scrubbed off, on approach to runway 25 at LAX. In 1992, I started seeing DL A310s coming into LAX, and I thought DL caught the Airbus bug like AA, who operated their A306s to LAX around that time. I believe, It did not hit me until, I read a book about Pan Am, that those DL A310s, was ex Pan Am A310s.

User currently offlineAlgoz66 From UK - England, joined Oct 2010, 77 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 13907 times:

33 years to the day today, since I joined Pan Am at LHR. Sadly on my 13th anniversary, they closed down....always missed, never replicated....always loved.

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8244 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 13798 times:
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I miss this great American Airline terribly. Only if the 1989 merger with Northwest had worked out...

User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10578 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 13788 times:

I still remember when in 1990 I was working as an Art Director on the AA account that a manager told me as a "secret" I should by Pan Am stocks as they would rise massively soon as AA is taking over the company!

Also a client of mine died aboard PA103 in 1988.

I cant remember though the exact day when Pan Am shut down, as thatw as in a time I wasnt too much into aviation.


User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13633 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 7):
Only if the 1989 merger with Northwest had worked out...

I think it would've brought down both NWA and Pan Am. Pretty hard to believe the banks were interested in what Plaskett was selling at the time. They also tried to get UA, DL and TW to buy them near the end, all were not really interested.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13606 times:

Very sad indeed.

I flew Pan Am for the first time back in 1988. First time to the USA and first time on a B747 ... Exciting stuff for a kid back then ! I flew them again in 1990. Some of their last years of operation. Wish they were still around ...


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24622 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 13451 times:

The aircraft that operated Pan Am's last flight (BGI-MIA). It was one of the last few passenger 727s built, delivered to Pan Am May 26, 1982.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Frank Schaefer



User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16793 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 13399 times:

I feel very fortunate to have been able to add Pan Am, the real Pan Am not the later fakes, to the list of carriers I've had the pleasure to fly. I flew EWR-TPA on a Pan Am DC-10 and TPA-EWR on a Pan Am L1011 in the early '80s ('81, '82 or '83). On the return flight I sat across several former Yankee's including Yogi Berra, My Grand Parents had me take pictures with several of them while waiting for the flight in TPA. I think Yogi might have been the Manager of the Yankees at that time. Don't know where the photos are today.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineskymiler From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 521 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 13344 times:

I flew a lot of JFK-GIG trips on PA's 747SP in the 70's.

What an experience -- upper deck fine dining (shirts and ties for the gentlemen. please).

Sorry those days are gone. Where have the years gone?



I love to fly, and it shows!
User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2855 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 13268 times:
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I have a giant slice of a Pan Am 707 fuselage in my living room with the "correct" blue stripe and window. It's in perfect shiny condition. It was not inexpensive  

Today I am 50 but shedding a tear. Nothing was more exciting than boarding a PanAm 747, I can recall the smell, the seats, the bulkhead design and walking up Park Ave everyday and seeing the PAN AM windswept letters on top of the PanAm building with the giant PA helicopter taking off for JFK.

Nothing lasts forever, but we live on memories and dreams!



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7965 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 13238 times:

I still remember flying back on the HKG-TYO-SFO route on a Pan Am 747-100 in 1970 and 1971 (remember, this was when Haneda was the only major airport in the Tokyo area). The food was great, and I still remember the comfortable seating, too.

User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13167 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 9):

For you 'older' folk, care to school a young aviation geek on how the final year and a half or so went down with PanAm, specifically the financial side. I know towards the end, DL pretty much fed them to the final hour but decided to pull the plug, or something like that from what I've read.

Thanks in advance guys!



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6480 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13143 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 16):
For you 'older' folk, care to school a young aviation geek on how the final year and a half or so went down with PanAm, specifically the financial side. I know towards the end, DL pretty much fed them to the final hour but decided to pull the plug, or something like that from what I've read.



From what I remember, DL was talking to PA about buying their European routes. The talks were going on for several months and then all of a sudden, DL decided NOT to buy the routes. As you mentioned, DL had been giving money to PA so that they could keep operating. When DL decided not to buy the European routes, PA shut down.

Then DL got the routes and some of PA's fleet much cheaper when it all was liquidated........

I guess DL has a lot to do with putting the final nail in the coffin of PA, at least that's how I remember it.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly...T5, CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8524 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13115 times:
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Quoting The777Man (Reply 17):
From what I remember, DL was talking to PA about buying their European routes. The talks were going on for several months and then all of a sudden, DL decided NOT to buy the routes. As you mentioned, DL had been giving money to PA so that they could keep operating. When DL decided not to buy the European routes, PA shut down.

Are you sure about that? I thought the European routes had already gone to DL and at the time of shutdown PA had been reduced to a rump operation doing South/Central America and the Caribbean?



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineairtechy From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 483 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13116 times:

I had one flight on PanAm.....JFK to Frankfort in the late '70's. I remember because they had to change 747's because the one to be used for the flight had hit a bird and suffered a cracked windshield.

A lot of people carry great memories of international travel on PanAm. Several DL friends of mine are ex PanAm flight attendants.

Jim


User currently offlineThe777Man From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 6480 posts, RR: 55
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13081 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 18):
Are you sure about that? I thought the European routes had already gone to DL and at the time of shutdown PA had been reduced to a rump operation doing South/Central America and the Caribbean?

My memory is a bit blurry (it's a while ago). But from what I recall, it was some strange dealings with DL going on. Not sure though.

The777Man



Need a Boeing 777 Firing Order....Further to fly...T5, CI, MU, LX and LH 777s
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3286 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 13065 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 5):
I believe, It did not hit me until, I read a book about Pan Am, that those DL A310s, was ex Pan Am A310s.

At first they did. But the planes were horrid. Absolutely horrid. J class cabin had no ovens, no overhead bins over the center section, smelled like years of cigarette smoke and neglect. DL went out and bought a dozen or so new A310's to replace them. The new 310's became one of my favorite planes, didn't stick around long.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 18):
Are you sure about that? I thought the European routes had already gone to DL and at the time of shutdown PA had been reduced to a rump operation doing South/Central America and the Caribbean?

Correct. DL overpaid for the european network and FRA hub. The plan was for DL to feed traffic to PA at MIA, and PA would serve points south. But the bleeding never stopped. DL decided suddenly to pull the plug, and PA shutdown almost overnight.

Quoting airtechy (Reply 19):
JFK to Frankfort in the late '70's.

PA served Kentucky? Who knew?  


User currently offlineMortyman From Norway, joined Aug 2006, 3801 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 12810 times:

I flew Pan Am in 1988 from Oslo to London on a B727 200 Stretch and then continued with them on a B747 100 / 200 to New York. Same routing and equipment on the way back.

I also flew the same route and equipment in 1990

Why did they add the "Stretch" to the aircraft type. These were ordenary 727 200 were'nt they ?


User currently offlineHBIHLtoEZE From Switzerland, joined Aug 2004, 280 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 12800 times:

Pan Am has always had a special place in my memory - the first 747 I boarded (in 1987 - Zürich - New York JFK) was a Pan Am 747, a primal 747-121 - like the shot of my collection:


Pan Am Boeing 747-121; N655PA@ZRH, July 1985 by Aero Icarus, on Flickr

It is amazingly paradoxical that this debt-ridden airline still creates so much emotional nostalgia - and value (me included).

For me the Pan Am logo is still the archetype of all airline logos (above all together with the original 747 livery)!


Pan Am Boeing 747-121; N744PA@FRA, June 1991/ DVH by Aero Icarus, on Flickr


Pan Am Boeing 747-121; N659PA@ZRH, May 1990/CNC by Aero Icarus, on Flickr


Pan Am Boeing 747-121; N733PA@MIA; February 1987/ BQR by Aero Icarus, on Flickr


Pan Am Boeing 747-121; N748PA@ZRH, July 1986/ CAH by Aero Icarus, on Flickr



Our battered suitcases were piled on the sidewalk again; we had longer ways to go. But no matter, the road is life.
User currently offlineKingFriday013 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1296 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 12591 times:

On CBS Sunday Morning today their Almanac segment focused on this. Although it was brief, it was pretty interesting to say the least. You can watch it here  

-J.



Tho' I've belted you an' flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!
25 oldtimer : I flew Pan Am many times over the years from 1975 through into the 1990's. I remember the European B727's very well as I was in Berlin at the time and
26 Delta763 : PA used to be the embodiment of luxury travel. By the 90s, though, PA was only a shadow of its former self, unable to live up to the former glory of i
27 AwysBSB : The first airline to operate nonstop international flights out of Brasilia. Pan American and its partner Pan Air do Brasil have just pioneered in seve
28 STT757 : DL did buy the Trans-Atlantic network and FRA hub, minus the LHR slots, from Pan Am. They then helped fund the new Pan Am which moved it's headquarte
29 Delta763 : I know UA got the route authorities, but didn't AA inherit some of the MIA operation as well?
30 kiwiandrew : I didn't think AA needed to. They moved into MIA in a big way when EA folded.
31 aviateur : I remember exactly where I was the night Pan Am shut down (this is like the Kennedy assassination). I was on a layover in a hotel in Burlington, Vermo
32 Flyingsottsman : I can remember flying Pan Am between London to Los Angeles on a 741 and then my first ride on an SP from LAX to Syd and home to MEL on of the last fli
33 panamair : My first Pan Am flight (of many) was in 1976 when I was still a kid and we flew the old China Clipper route - on a 747 (PA841) from SFO to HNL to GUM
34 STT757 : AA was moving into MIA prior to EA's demise, during EA's bankruptcy AA started launching new domestic and Caribbean routes from MIA. AA then purchase
35 B737900 : Pan American World Airways was a class act to be sure. Speaking of pioneering air routs: I am just finishing a very interesting book "The Long Way Hom
36 UALWN : I only flew PanAm once: DTW-JFK in May 1989, on a 727. I was amazed by the leather seats in Y. That was on the return leg of my first-ever trip to the
37 type-rated : I have taken Pan AM a few times out of ORD to Europe and once IAH-MEX and return on a 747-100. The MEX trip was memorable only because of a maintenanc
38 jfk777 : Delta purchased the European routes and started flying on November 1, 1991 to Europe. DL funded the "new" Latin American PA and then so some reason p
39 WROORD : My first flight ever was on Pan Am so they are always dear to me!
40 kiwinlondon : PA was an outstanding airline. I was fortunate enough to fly them dozens of times in Economy, Clipper and First Class. They were a truly great airline
41 kiwinlondon : MON is not right it should be Monrovia, Liberia.
42 Viscount724 : I wouldn´t go that far. I also flew them dozens of times, almost all in F class (a few in J and even fewer in Y...they were very generous with upgra
43 tharanga : By the time I had a chance to fly them in the mid-to-late 80s, it was not a great experience. Maybe it was a wonderful airline with which to fly in th
44 milesrich : PA's first and business class had great service to the end, but their coach service started heading downhill in the mid to late 60's.
45 DesertAir : I had the good fortune to fly them the year before they folded. JFK-MIA on a 747 MIA-JFK SFO-LAX on a 727 LAX-GUA on an A300 All the flights were in c
46 milesrich : I am happy you remember it so vividly, but to compare it to November 22, 1963 and what that did to the country, is absolutely ridiculous. Do you reme
47 n5014k : I loved seeing the 707's, DC-8's and 747's on approach to BAL (now BWI) in the 60's and 70's. My friends and I used to talk our way onto a lot of plan
48 1stfl94 : A number of airlines held onto their 747s for a long time after Pan Am collapsed, I don't think that really had much do with it. The aircraft that di
49 PI767 : Two of my favorite Pan Am slogans ever: "First on the Atlantic. First on the Pacific. First in Latin America. First Around the World." and....(this is
50 aviateur : I understand that, Miles. I was being sarcastic. PS
51 PI767 : I am suprised that no one has mentioned that today, December 21, would be the 23rd anniversary of Pan Am flight 103, a major blow to the surival of th
52 Post contains links warden145 : FWIW someone started a separate thread on the subject... 23 Years Ago Pan Am 103 (by chootie Dec 21 2011 in Civil Aviation)
53 hugo : Memories of Pan Am live on with a small hotel's homage to the greatest airline in history. Please check out theclipperhotel.com
54 jr : It was my first 747 flight on Pan Am in 1986 that got me hooked on planes. It routed from New Delhi to JFK via Vienna and Franfurt (with no plane cha
55 Post contains links AAJFKLHR777 : This is the Sunday Almanac I was able to find on youtube. I grow up, and still live in Rockaway Beach, Queens. Which many of you may know as where AA
56 Gonzalo : Same here. I was a kid but I remember vividly the PAN AM 747s flying low ( my grandmother's house was 2 or 3 nm off the runway threshold in Montevide
57 doulasc : Hard to believe Pan Am has been gone 20 years,seeing the logo on rail cars is not the same. In pre-deregulation Pan Am always made a attempt to get do
58 ltbewr : I only flew on Pan Am a few times, several times on the LGA-DCA shuttles on 727's and JFK via Nice to Rome on a 747. By the mid-1980's, as deregulatio
59 USPIT10L : They did fly to YHM with Pan Am Express during 1988-89. Never served YYZ or YUL. They did serve YQX (Gander) as a refueling stop back during the pre-
60 Post contains links and images cgnnrw : Okay, I'll jump on the path down PAA memory lane.... Between 1988 and 1991 I flew the PA shuttle between DCA and LGA on a regular basis. I was to earn
61 Post contains links and images LatinPlane : BBC Documentary - Come Fly With Me, The Story of Pan Am. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvNdgOTZxN4 Thank you Pan Am, for everything you did.
62 Viscount724 : Pan Am never served ANC. You probably mean FAI. They stopped at Whitehorse (YXY) on flights that operated SEA-ANN-JNU-YXY-FAI (ANN = Annette Island,
63 Phatfarmlines : Anyone know which airport the ticket counter depicted from time markers 0:13-0:15 in the Youtube video is [or was] located?
64 Taieridrome : I only flew Pan Am once and I was under the circumstances a most grateful passenger from Melborne to AKL via SYD. I was actually trying to get to CHC.
65 USPIT10L : Thanks. It was FAI. I saw a circa 1961-63 route map on airchive.com a few years ago.
66 SASMD82 : The Pan Am era was before my time. (by the time the time they ceased operations, I was only 8 years old) The only thing I know about Pan Am that they
67 Post contains images zippyjet : Timeless! Liked their last livery the best with the bold raised blue lettering along the fuselage. Other classic liveries that stand the test of time
68 klwright69 : Actually it had a lot to do with it. I think his point is more that PA had an over reliance on the 747. It was just too much airplane for many of the
69 SEPilot : Pan Am was built by Juan Trippe by backroom political deals and muscle. Ernest Gann vividly illustrates this in "Fate is the Hunter"; he flew for AA a
70 milesrich : Juan Trippe may have tried to torpedo American Export Airlines which became American Overseas owned by AA being awarded trans Atlantic routes, but ev
71 kiwinlondon : SEPilot there may be something (although I don't know about it) in what you say although PA were a great airline and lots of people lost jobs. Say wh
72 polot : Deregulation came about before the PA/National merger. In fact it was one of the things that drove PA to acquire National.
73 SEPilot : There is much in the popular media that backs up my view; not only Ernest Gann's writing, but also the movie "The Aviator" about Howard Hughes (and o
74 kiwinlondon : Pan Am was Juan Trippe's monument to himself, and he controlled it with an iron fist. That, plus his reliance on political connections that ceased to
75 Post contains links Klima : http://articles.latimes.com/1985-09-...usiness/fi-18722_1_united-airlines "Pan Am's Pacific division, with revenues of $778 million and an annual prof
76 Viscount724 : In later years C.R. Smith was quoted saying that selling AOA was his biggest mistake.
77 SEPilot : I think it was the only one they could sell for enough money to get them out of their current hole. Of course it was also their best money-making ope
78 EA CO AS : EA always operated the headquarters out of Bldg 16 on the MIA property; even though ATL was the primary hub, I don't believe they ever moved the HQ o
79 Viscount724 : Pan Am was selling their most valuable assets all through the 1980s in an effort to stay alive, including their LHR routes to UA in October 1990 for
80 jfk777 : Pan AM sold Asia for several reasons, United wanted it bad and was willing to pay top dollar and close fast. PA did NOT have the $$ for new 747 and t
81 panam92 : If i recall one of the reasons Pan Am sold the Pacific routes was they estimated they would of needed 2 billion dollars to compete with the Asian carr
82 doulasc : I agree with your statment on Pan Am better off getting some Boeing 767s, A 767-221ER would have been a good replacement for their 707-321Bs for thin
83 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Sometimes I wonder if US or AA folded tomorrow, would we have a.net threads in 20 years reminiscing how wonderful they were? Probably. But for now le
84 Post contains images Tdan : Possibly, but I can guarantee we will see the first CO reminiscing thread within the next five years!
85 cgnnrw : To add to my previous post here about my experiences with PA. As I already noted I flew the Pan Am Shuttle quite frequently between DCA and LGA's Mari
86 kiwinlondon : It was called World Pass IIRC. Kiwinlondon
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