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Looks Like CZ Is Using 3+5+3 In Their A380s.  
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3573 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 14929 times:

I was reading about CZ A380 in Airways, and it said that CZ will have a 3+5+3 arrangement, in the lower economy section, their A380, for 352 economy passengers. I have wanted to see this arrangement on an A380, and finally CZ did it. Thank you CZ


PS: Some people may say this is uncomfortable, and I would say to them, your flying on an A380, stop complaining!

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebavair From Germany, joined Jul 2011, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 14920 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
PS: Some people may say this is uncomfortable, and I would say to them, your flying on an A380, stop complaining!

Now what's that supposed to mean?

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
I was reading about CZ A380 in Airways, and it said that CZ will have a 3+5+3 arrangement, in the lower economy section, their A380, for 352 economy passengers. I have wanted to see this arrangement on an A380, and finally CZ did it. Thank you CZ

It's 3-4-3. Source: CZ seat map. (csair.com)

[Edited 2011-12-03 22:30:46]

User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3573 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 14650 times:

Quoting bavair (Reply 1):
It's 3-4-3. Source: CZ seat map. (csair.com)




Crap, your right!!!! It must have been a typo in Airways magazine, and I believed it. It is a little disappointing, because I wanted to see an 3+5+3 lay out, since the early 90s, when 747s had 3+4+3, L1011/DC10s had 2+5+2 and A300 had 2+4+2. The A380 is wide enough for an 3+5+3 lay out, but it looks like airlines do not want to do it.

Quoting bavair (Reply 1):
Now what's that supposed to mean?





There is only a small amount of people, who get to enjoy a ride on an A380. So if you one of those bless people, why would you complain. Be thankful and enjoy your flight.


User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1572 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 14586 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 2):
The A380 is wide enough for an 3+5+3 lay out, but it looks like airlines do not want to do it.

Nor do we passengers!


User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1899 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 14538 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
PS: Some people may say this is uncomfortable, and I would say to them, your flying on an A380, stop complaining!

No I'm not...just like I will not fly on any 777 that's 3-4-3 across.


User currently offlineairevents From Germany, joined Jan 2002, 875 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 13695 times:

3-5-3 is absolutely disgusting in my opinion. And hardly compensated by the fact that it happens on an A380. I would try to avoid it where I can...


www.airevents.com
User currently offlineaircanada014 From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 1513 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 13379 times:

I think you all forgot that the A380 cabin is wider than the B747 so it is meant to fit 3x5x3? I thought the cabin width was 23ft as to B747 20ft? Its a matter of doing 3x6x3?

User currently offlineAirbusA370 From Germany, joined Dec 2008, 253 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 13333 times:

Even the ultra high density layout used for the evacuation test (853pax) was 3-4-3, so i do not see any chance that there will be 3-5-3 somewhere in airline service.

User currently offlinejoelyboy911 From New Zealand, joined Oct 2009, 244 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 12930 times:

Quoting AirbusA370 (Reply 8):

Even the ultra high density layout used for the evacuation test (853pax) was 3-4-3, so i do not see any chance that there will be 3-5-3 somewhere in airline service.

Wouldn't that have been all-economy? So 3-5-3 in Y, with other classes obviously more spacious would come in at less than the maximum allowable pax number.

The width of the lower-deck cabin is 21.6ft, compared to 20.1ft on the 747, and 19.3ft on the 777. I'd say that 3-5-3 is definitely achievable, and would still be better (except for the middle person) than a 3-4-3 77W (which I found tolerable on AF and fine on NZ).

Basically I expect 3-5-3 will happen eventually. However, right now the A380 is being marketed as a luxury liner, and because it has such good economics, such a layout has not become a necessity yet. Wait until it goes secondhand, or some second-tier carriers recieve them.



Flown: NZ, NY, SJ, QF, UA, AC, EI, BE, TP, AF
User currently offline767eng From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2010, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 12801 times:

I believe BA will go for the 3-4-3 on the main deck and 2-4-2 on the upper deck for the economy seats too.

Should give them around 300 econ pax if they go for the usual ratios of 1st , Biz, WT+

Can't see 3-5-3 ever working, would be a hard sell to get someone to buy the middle seat.


User currently offlineluftaom From Australia, joined May 1999, 426 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 12582 times:

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 4):
No I'm not...just like I will not fly on any 777 that's 3-4-3 across.

amen to that


User currently onlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4418 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 12559 times:

Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 9):
Wait until it goes secondhand, or some second-tier carriers recieve them

I think we'll no as soon as Air Austral releases their A380 cabin lay out if 3-5-3 will ever be used.


User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2960 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 12426 times:

Quoting aircanada014 (Reply 7):

I think you all forgot that the A380 cabin is wider than the B747 so it is meant to fit 3x5x3? I thought the cabin width was 23ft as to B747 20ft? Its a matter of doing 3x6x3?

And you're forgetting that you're quoting maximum width... The width at the floor (where it actually matters, because that's the restricting factor in fitting seats in) is a matter of inches. Look at the pictures everywhere of the massive gap between headrests in Y and the sidewall and you'll see where that extra width exists.


User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1790 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 11599 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
Some people may say this is uncomfortable, and I would say to them, your flying on an A380, stop complaining!

So when are you planning to take a ride in the nose wheel well of an A380? There must be plenty of space in there. You won't be comfortable but you'll be flying on an A380 so stop complaining   



Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
User currently offlineHiJazzey From Saudi Arabia, joined Sep 2005, 866 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 11441 times:

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 4):
No I'm not...just like I will not fly on any 777 that's 3-4-3 across.

Hear hear!

What is this masochism?


User currently offlineplanejamie From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2011, 576 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 10568 times:

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 4):
No I'm not...just like I will not fly on any 777 that's 3-4-3 across.

Hence why I won't fly EK (at all in fact, even on the A380, I took 3 days in Heathrow over going up to Manchester to RUH on EK) or AF KL or OS in their 777s... I think it's torture to cram people into very narrow seats for long haul flights (even my hour long flight RUH-DXB with EK was so bad I never want to give them a single penny again).

Funny, the first thing I thought when I read the thread title was "Give it 3 days, and EK will announce that they're doing the same"... if you remember it was actually BA that started this 10 abreast trend off with the 777...they quickly took a U-Turn when passengers complained though.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25106 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10146 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 12):
Quoting joelyboy911 (Reply 9):
Wait until it goes secondhand, or some second-tier carriers recieve them

I think we'll know as soon as Air Austral releases their A380 cabin lay out if 3-5-3 will ever be used.

It will be 3-4-3. The maximum certificated seating on the A380 on which the evacuation tests were based used 3-4-3 seating on the lower deck. Installing more seats would serve no purpose on a high-density carrier like Air Austral since they couldn't legally be sold.


User currently offlineWestern727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 746 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 10009 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17):
It will be 3-4-3. The maximum certificated seating on the A380 on which the evacuation tests were based used 3-4-3 seating on the lower deck. Installing more seats would serve no purpose on a high-density carrier like Air Austral since they couldn't legally be sold.

Why the 3-4-3 limit? The 77W's cabin, at 2.3 feet narrower, can legally do 3-4-3. At 17-18" width per average Y seat, there's more than enough width to go 3-5-3 on the 380. Is it the number of lower-deck exits that legally limits this?



Jack @ AUS
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9864 times:

It's unattractive, but hardly the end of the world.

NS


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25106 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 9672 times:

Quoting Western727 (Reply 19):
Why the 3-4-3 limit? The 77W's cabin, at 2.3 feet narrower, can legally do 3-4-3. At 17-18" width per average Y seat, there's more than enough width to go 3-5-3 on the 380. Is it the number of lower-deck exits that legally limits this?

It's the time required to evacuate the aircraft in 90 seconds that determines the maximum certificated seating, which on the A380 is 538 on the main deck and 315 on the upper deck for a total of 853.


User currently offline777-200X From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9442 times:

I find it funny how the airlines love to position the reason they configure the 777 in the 3-3-3 arrangement is for passenger comfort, and most of people actually buy into that argument. The main reason most airlines configured their 777 in a 3-3-3 configuration or switched from 2-5-2 configuration on a 777, i.e., UA and DL is due to the fact that the IFE system box can only support a max of 4 seats in a group, so to configure an aircraft in the 2-5-2 configuration they will need 4 boxes to support the same number of sets as oppose to the 3-3-3 configuration which only needs 3 boxes. Given the fuel is at record high prices airlines are chose not to carry around a few hundred pounds of additional IFE equipments to save fuel. I personally think sitting in a 3-3-3 configured window seat is just as bad, if not worse then getting trapped in the center seat of a 2-5-2 configured 777. At least on a 2-5-2 configured 777 you have two ways/options of getting out to the aisle if got stuck in the middle of the 5 seats. In a 3-3-3 configured window seat you have only one way to get out and if the people are sleeping, which is often the case during long haul flight, then you will need to wake up two people as oppose to one person on a 2-5-2. Not sure how that supports the passenger comfort argument.

[Edited 2011-12-04 08:38:58]

User currently offlineWestern727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 746 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 9181 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 22):
It's the time required to evacuate the aircraft in 90 seconds that determines the maximum certificated seating, which on the A380 is 538 on the main deck and 315 on the upper deck for a total of 853.

Thanks, Viscount724--that makes sense. I wonder, then, if an airline could still do 3-5-3 in Y while having a mixed config...say perhaps 2-3-2 J and 3-5-3 Y on the lower deck. In this theoretical config, the lower-deck 538-pax limit that you mention could still be satisfied. Thoughts?



Jack @ AUS
User currently offlineliftsifter From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 8 months 3 weeks ago) and read 8630 times:

I don't think it's legal to have that many people on that plane.. LOL

I would never fly a 3-5-3 A380. With a layout like that they might as well make a thrid isle down the middle for faster service, eh?



A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A342 A343 A346 A380 B738 B744 B763 B772 B77W B787 Q400 E190
User currently offlineHalophila From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 646 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8017 times:

I'm about 80cm from shoulder to shoulder (think linebacker). And I can't afford J or F. There is no way you'd get me to fly any carrier with 3-4-3 on a 777 - it would be impolite to fellow passengers (to extend into their space). Similarly I do not fly on airlines that do not let me choose my seat in advance (a la VA - great service, but QF lets you choose your seats on the cheapest seats). But as someone said, it's hardly the end of the world.


Flown on 707, 717, 727, 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 743 744 74SP 757 753 762 763 772 773 77W D10 DC9 M11 M80 M87
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4817 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (2 years 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7910 times:

Quoting 777-200X (Reply 21):

How is sitting in a window 3-3-3 configured 777 any different from a window on an A380/747/737/A320 etc?
Simple fact is that apart from the unlikely chance that a 777 will have 50 empty seats on a regular basis 2-5-2 is not as comfortable or as useful for airlines as 3-3-3. If there was an airline that did this then they might do well to remove a row and go 2-4-2. I could not think of anything worse than being in the middle of 5! Also 3-3-3 is more efficient for overhead locker space (as pax like to have their own bags above them thus speeding up boarding slightly.



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
25 Post contains images AirbusA370 : Common wisdom on a.net is, that nobody can fill the A380, so you will probably have always free seats next to you
26 Post contains images francoflier : Talking of Sucker for punishment or masochistic tendencies? Talking of 3-5-3 on the A380, would such configuration require a re-certification (another
27 UALWN : Since it's clear that CZ's A380s will actually be 3-4-3, could the mods modify the title of the thread? Or, even better, lock it? Please?
28 Babybus : If I remember correctly SV fly their 777 in 2/5/2 format. Because their legroom is very generous in Y, sitting in the middle seat of the middle sectio
29 N1120A : Why? I'd complain all day. I doubt they have passed evacuation tests with that configuration. I won't even fly one 3-3-3 if I can avoid it. Except, o
30 Post contains images something : You know it's a rainy Sunday in most parts of the world, when a thread opened under a wrong premise gets 30+ replies.
31 Post contains links KC135TopBoom : Yes, the main deck of the A-380 is about 1.5' wider than the B-747 (interior measurement). The current economy seats (most airlines) on the A-380 are
32 EL-AL : Transaro is operating it's B743s with 496 pax configuration, and with their plans to have more then 700 on the A380 they ordered, I'll put my money th
33 joelyboy911 : As I understand it, the law states that nobody is allowed to be more than 2 seats from an aisle. So 3-5-3 is the max, essentially. I don't see why 3-
34 cipango : To be honest, not many people take much notice of their seat number, until of course they're on the plane. The middle seat would probably be filled a
35 Zkpilot : QF A380s flying on the LHR route of generally been 95%+ full most of the time. or you have the kids by the window and the middle seat, mum or dad in
36 RamblinMan : Good God WHY? I can only think of two options...a.) you're masochistic, or b.) you exclusively fly J or F and you're sadistic. I think the activity h
37 747400sp : Wow! This is a nice amount of replies, and I really thank you for your replies. I know my thinking is very, very crazy, but I just want to see if 3+5+
38 aviateur : Except that the average passenger could not care less -- or even has any idea -- what type of aircraft he or she is flying on. Even I , a life-long a
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