I am wondering when common sense will win out over the lunacy that takes place, I do not think that TSA should be singled out for her cutting her shin and "bleeding like a pig" because that is a side effect of blood thinners.
When are people going to say enough is enough and demand a revision of TSA policies and a return to normal thought and treating people with respect and common decency.
BC77008 From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 228 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6655 times:
The story I read in another publication last night stated that the TSA denies having stripped searched this woman. Personally I think she is making the whole thing up.
"He waited his whole damn life to take that flight. And as the plane crashed down he thought 'Well isn't this nice...'"
Revelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 10445 posts, RR: 20 Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6586 times:
C'mon now, get with the program! The terrorists have run out of younger people willing to sacrifice the balance of their life, so they've been recruiting those whose balance isn't so good. They've moved on from underwear bombers to Depends bombers. They've cleverly found a way to create exploding adult diapers and have used harmless looking little old ladies to deliver the diapers of death on to the aircraft.
Quote:
Bruce Zimmerman, 53, said he can’t understand why the agents targeted his mom.
“She looks like a sweet, little old lady,” he said.
C'mon, Bruce, the TSA is two steps ahead of you and your mom's devious plans!
tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 81 Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6342 times:
Quoting aztrainer (Thread starter): I am wondering when common sense will win out over the lunacy that takes place
Although I'm not a fan of the TSA, they do one thing very right...randomness. It's essentially impossible to find a pattern in how they search. This is a good thing for security. Patterns can be exploited.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16247 posts, RR: 52 Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 6325 times:
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 4): Although I'm not a fan of the TSA, they do one thing very right...randomness. It's essentially impossible to find a pattern in how they search. This is a good thing for security. Patterns can be exploited.
Exactly, if you don't search certain people, as innocent as they may look, that gives drug smugglers or terrorists an advantage.
It's a good thing the media is not in charge of law enforcement.
modesto2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2628 posts, RR: 6 Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6020 times:
Quoting STT757 (Reply 4): Exactly, if you don't search certain people, as innocent as they may look, that gives drug smugglers or terrorists an advantage.
Agreed. While it's unfortunate that an elderly woman may have been searched, if TSA only searches "younger" passengers, how is that tactic effective? Employing such a strategy would make it way too easy for terrorists to plot an attack.
Maverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 4744 posts, RR: 6 Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5655 times:
Quoting bennett123 (Reply 7): What your saying is that the randomness is a cunning ploy rather than stupiditity.
Based on previous threads on this subject, (many from the US) I find that argument a bit thin.
Just because something works out, doesn't mean it was intended to.
Quoting STT757 (Reply 4): Exactly, if you don't search certain people, as innocent as they may look, that gives drug smugglers or terrorists an advantage.
Exactly. It's not unheard of for CBP to find drugs and weapons on "little old ladies", either with or without their knowledge.
gigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16215 posts, RR: 88 Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5635 times:
tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 81 Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5587 times:
Quoting bennett123 (Reply 7):
What your saying is that the randomness is a cunning ploy rather than stupiditity.
Not exactly...I'm saying being random is good for security. Whether they actually mean to be random is a different question.
Quoting bennett123 (Reply 7): Based on previous threads on this subject, (many from the US) I find that argument a bit thin.
That's possible but something TSA would probably never disclose either way. Whether it's true or not, having your foe think you're a bunch of bumbling incompetents can only help you.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11705 posts, RR: 52 Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5532 times:
Quoting BC77008 (Reply 1): The story I read in another publication last night stated that the TSA denies having stripped searched this woman. Personally I think she is making the whole thing up.
The TSA has it all on tape, and this Grandmother knows it, so whay would she make it up?
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3): Although I'm not a fan of the TSA, they do one thing very right...randomness.
Quoting STT757 (Reply 4): Exactly, if you don't search certain people, as innocent as they may look, that gives drug smugglers or terrorists an advantage.
If it were truely 'random' it would b e more acceptable (not completely acceptable). The searches are done so the TSA can show the public 'look at us we search 10% of everyone flying'. The searches are not 'random' as the PC crowd won't let them racial profile. No 83 year old Grandmother has ever hyjacked an airplane in the US. But young arab males under age 40 have. Other young men and women from other groups have too, but we cannot strip search these people, that would be racial profiling (which actually works, just ask LY).
The TSA continues to fail its own internal security checks to see if anyt weapons get through them and onto planes. In some cities the TSA has failed 50% of its own tests, meaning in those cities half of the unauthorized weapons got through them.
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 8): Exactly. It's not unheard of for CBP to find drugs and weapons on "little old ladies", either with or without their knowledge.
Correct, but those people just got off an airplane, they have already been on one.
cmf From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 2475 posts, RR: 35 Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5519 times:
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3): Although I'm not a fan of the TSA, they do one thing very right...randomness. It's essentially impossible to find a pattern in how they search. This is a good thing for security. Patterns can be exploited.
If little old ladies never got search you would just let them be mules. The thoroughly searched terrorist looking people can pick up their goodies from grandma.
Don’t repeat earlier generations mistakes. Learn history for a better future.
Maverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 4744 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5393 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 11): that would be racial profiling (which actually works, just ask LY).
It amazes me the sheer amount of times that gets debunked on this very forum, and yet people still claim that Israel both a) practices it and b) that it works, when it's quite the opposite.
fxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7023 posts, RR: 93 Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5384 times:
If you don't like getting cavity searched take the bus.
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 13): people still claim that Israel both a) practices it
Kaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2574 posts, RR: 24 Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5372 times:
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 13): It amazes me the sheer amount of times that gets debunked on this very forum, and yet people still claim that Israel both a) practices it and b) that it works, when it's quite the opposite.
TheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2346 posts, RR: 7 Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5313 times:
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 13): It amazes me the sheer amount of times that gets debunked on this very forum, and yet people still claim that Israel both a) practices it and b) that it works, when it's quite the opposite.
You might like to read these articles.
It clearly mentions that at El Al, they use racial profiling on passengers !
Maverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 4744 posts, RR: 6 Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5274 times:
TheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2346 posts, RR: 7 Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5246 times:
Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 18): No, it editorializes. Even after they're done praising the wonders of racial profiling, you get gems like this:
From the first link:
And no where do they (El Al) refute the fact either.
As the articles say, with many examples cited, they use racial profiling.
"In London, Philip Baum, editor of Aviation Security International and managing director of Green Light Limited, an airline security company, argued that the current approach was indeed outdated."
tdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 81 Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5177 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 11): The searches are not 'random' as the PC crowd won't let them racial profile.
I don't follow you here...if you're profiling then, by definition, it's not random. If they're being forced to not racially profile then that increases, not decreases, the randomness.
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 11): No 83 year old Grandmother has ever hyjacked an airplane in the US. But young arab males under age 40 have.
First of all, the number of US hijackings is so low that I doubt you can get any statistical validity off it. However, even if you do go with that theory, take a look at the hijacking history of US aircraft:
1961: Cuban
1968: Cuban
1970: American
1971: American (2)
1972: American (6)
1976: Croation
1978: American (2)
1985: Lebanese
1986: Pakistani
1994: American
2001: Arab (4)
So, yes, there's a trend there...and it's not Arabs.
bennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 6352 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4522 times:
"That's possible but something TSA would probably never disclose either way. Whether it's true or not, having your foe think you're a bunch of bumbling incompetents can only help you".
Looking incompetant can only help you. Actually being incompetant, I am not so sure.
ghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 752 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4162 times:
I saw this on the local news.
First, I have to say that the way they treated her was improper. She had a, what, bruise on her leg from her walker and called for help, but was instead whisked away to security (per local news). That's wrong.
However, there's nothing wrong with the strip search itself. The TSA has every right to so, regardless of Age, Gender, etc.
The "innocent" old lady thing doesn't really stand ground. Sure, she's old.. but that doesn't mean she's not a terrorist. The probability is very low, but still there. And she could be sneaking illegal substances inside of her walker, knowingly or unknowingly. Now, I'm not saying she is a terrorist, or that she is smuggling drugs... I'm merely saying that she could be. And that's the TSA's job.. to prevent "could be."
Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 20): First of all, the number of US hijackings is so low that I doubt you can get any statistical validity off it. However, even if you do go with that theory, take a look at the hijacking history of US aircraft:
1961: Cuban
1968: Cuban
1970: American
1971: American (2)
1972: American (6)
1976: Croation
1978: American (2)
1985: Lebanese
1986: Pakistani
1994: American
2001: Arab (4)
So, yes, there's a trend there...and it's not Arabs.
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 7754 posts, RR: 26 Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3935 times:
Quoting fxramper (Reply 14): If you don't like getting cavity searched take the bus.
Human dignity should prevent passengers from "cavity" searches. That may be the rule for convicts but not people just wanting to travel from A to B.
But while we are at it, if that ever happens to me in the US, I will most certainly fart in the face of the searcher, of course, i will apologize immediately. No one can prove that it was intentionally.
standby87 From Switzerland, joined Jul 2001, 535 posts, RR: 3 Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3491 times:
Quoting ghifty (Reply 22): Sure, she's old.. but that doesn't mean she's not a terrorist. The probability is very low, but still there.
There's a probability that the ceiling will collapse on your head right now. The probability is very low, but still there.
There is no such thing as 100% security in life.
Strip-searching an 83 year old women doesn't help reach 100% security.
I don't want passengers with guns, bombs or knives on my aircraft or the aircaft I send my wife and children on.
But I would feel happier if someone has looked through the pax list in advance and checked the names isof. taking the clothes off a wheelchair passenger in what should be the most peaceful, stress-free stage of her life...
25 tdscanuck: Terrorists are many things but stupid isn't generally one of them (at least not the ones who fly airliners in to buildings). How hard do you think it
26 eldanno: Everyone's entitled these days, aren't they? I'm sure if the papers reported every last complaint, the TSA is "violating" every demographic out there.
27 AviRaider: I saw this on the news and the old woman claims she was made to take her underwear off. But a TSA response said that they do not do strip searches. I'
28 BC77008: She believes she had an unpleasant experience, in which she missed her flight and couldn't fly out until over 2 hours later. She exaggerates what rea
29 nelsonde: TSA: 1) Doesn't strip search. 2) Doesn't tape private screenings. 3) Doesn't profile. 4) Doesn't make old ladies take off their underwear. 5) Won't le
30 longhauler: While I tend to question the word of this 83 year old, one has to remember ... The 83 year old does not have to be a terrorist, she just has to carry
31 Grid: Yeah, sure, anyone could list a bunch of reasons why anyone is a suspect. Actually, there is a trend there ... look at five of the last seven hijacki
32 tdscanuck: Pakistan isn't in the Middle East and the Lebanese are a highly mixed population...calling them "Arabs" (the original claim of appropriate racial pro
33 jfklganyc: Another older lady travelling thru JFK to Florida came forward this morning... As someone that deals with the TSA on a daily basis, please do not give
34 PanHAM: Then you should tell your government to change the function of their agencies. Every customs officer, every tax man, every policeman and even every s
35 tdscanuck: I agree it's almost 100% security theater but the constant argument for profiling baffles me. If you set up any kind of profiling, all you do is guar
36 COEWR787: The one clearly visible fact is that the period 2002 - 2011 is the first 10 year period in which no American plane has been hijacked since the whole
37 PanHAM: It is the Indian sub continent, to be precise. There is üprofiling, every passenger buying a ticket for a flight to the USA has to submit details to
38 DogsOfWar: and you're very naive! TSA is the problem with air travel within the US today.
39 daviation: What does this show? Only the successful hijackings. Over the last several years, the CIA, FBI, NYC Police, Scotland Yard have uncovered and foiled n
40 MaverickM11: This thread is worthless without pics ...I keed, I keed...
41 DogsOfWar: This thread is worthless without pics ...I keed, I keed... you're sick! you need help! 83 year old granny panties? yuck!
42 Grid: Right, I know. The claim was that there wasn't a trend; there is. I did not refer to Pakistan - only five (Arab and Lebanese, which is mixed group -
43 bennett123: The worst terrorist attack in the US pre 2001 was Oklahoma City. Timothy McVeigh was American, white and probably ex Military. So stop all WASP ex sol
44 zippyjet: It's all security theatre. Hope this 83 yr young lady is OK and the folks TSA that were ordered to do the deed didn't suffer from a case of TMI.
45 gigneil: I giggled a lot at this. I concur that screening all people is necessary, but they CLEARLY do ALL those things and there is MUCH evidence to support
46 steeler83: THANK YOU! Christ! We really need to watch out for those people with the colostomy bags and urine bags. Yeah, THEY are the REAL threat to our nationa
47 tdscanuck: You tried to carry an un-perscibed white powder through TSA and are surprised they wanted to check what it really was? Tom.
48 gigneil: Yeah, to be fair, I would think that was an obvious trafficking attempt if it were me. NS
49 Grid: It should not take 20 minutes though. I was carrying Black Powder and told them what it was ... TSA tested it and I was on my way in fewer than five
Sponsor Message: 
From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, 
From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, 
From Kazakhstan, joined Apr 2010, 624 posts, 
From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2346 posts, 
From Germany, joined May 2005, 7754 posts, 
From Switzerland, joined Jul 2001, 535 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
