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83 Year Old Stripped Searched At JFK  
User currently offlineaztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 558 posts, RR: 1
Posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7866 times:

I searched and did not see this topic discussed, but here is another TSA oops.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...gents-jfk-airport-article-1.986198

I am wondering when common sense will win out over the lunacy that takes place, I do not think that TSA should be singled out for her cutting her shin and "bleeding like a pig" because that is a side effect of blood thinners.

When are people going to say enough is enough and demand a revision of TSA policies and a return to normal thought and treating people with respect and common decency.

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBC77008 From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7839 times:

The story I read in another publication last night stated that the TSA denies having stripped searched this woman. Personally I think she is making the whole thing up.


"He waited his whole damn life to take that flight. And as the plane crashed down he thought 'Well isn't this nice...'"
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12287 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 7770 times:

Quoting aztrainer (Thread starter):
here is another TSA oops.

C'mon now, get with the program! The terrorists have run out of younger people willing to sacrifice the balance of their life, so they've been recruiting those whose balance isn't so good. They've moved on from underwear bombers to Depends bombers. They've cleverly found a way to create exploding adult diapers and have used harmless looking little old ladies to deliver the diapers of death on to the aircraft.

Quote:

Bruce Zimmerman, 53, said he can’t understand why the agents targeted his mom.

“She looks like a sweet, little old lady,” he said.

C'mon, Bruce, the TSA is two steps ahead of you and your mom's devious plans!



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7526 times:

Quoting aztrainer (Thread starter):
I am wondering when common sense will win out over the lunacy that takes place

Although I'm not a fan of the TSA, they do one thing very right...randomness. It's essentially impossible to find a pattern in how they search. This is a good thing for security. Patterns can be exploited.

Tom.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16798 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7509 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 4):
Although I'm not a fan of the TSA, they do one thing very right...randomness. It's essentially impossible to find a pattern in how they search. This is a good thing for security. Patterns can be exploited.

Exactly, if you don't search certain people, as innocent as they may look, that gives drug smugglers or terrorists an advantage.

It's a good thing the media is not in charge of law enforcement.

[Edited 2011-12-04 09:14:38]


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinemodesto2 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2783 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7204 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
Exactly, if you don't search certain people, as innocent as they may look, that gives drug smugglers or terrorists an advantage.

Agreed. While it's unfortunate that an elderly woman may have been searched, if TSA only searches "younger" passengers, how is that tactic effective? Employing such a strategy would make it way too easy for terrorists to plot an attack.


User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 7096 times:

How did we even survive before 9/11..


..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7384 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 6962 times:

What your saying is that the randomness is a cunning ploy rather than stupiditity.

Based on previous threads on this subject, (many from the US) I find that argument a bit thin.


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5556 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6839 times:

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 7):
What your saying is that the randomness is a cunning ploy rather than stupiditity.

Based on previous threads on this subject, (many from the US) I find that argument a bit thin.

  

Just because something works out, doesn't mean it was intended to.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
Exactly, if you don't search certain people, as innocent as they may look, that gives drug smugglers or terrorists an advantage.

Exactly. It's not unheard of for CBP to find drugs and weapons on "little old ladies", either with or without their knowledge.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6819 times:

In fact, on southwards flights, its super common.

Sorry, little old ladies.

NS


User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6771 times:

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 7):

What your saying is that the randomness is a cunning ploy rather than stupiditity.

Not exactly...I'm saying being random is good for security. Whether they actually mean to be random is a different question.

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 7):
Based on previous threads on this subject, (many from the US) I find that argument a bit thin.

That's possible but something TSA would probably never disclose either way. Whether it's true or not, having your foe think you're a bunch of bumbling incompetents can only help you.

Tom.


User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6716 times:

Quoting BC77008 (Reply 1):
The story I read in another publication last night stated that the TSA denies having stripped searched this woman. Personally I think she is making the whole thing up.

The TSA has it all on tape, and this Grandmother knows it, so whay would she make it up?

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3):
Although I'm not a fan of the TSA, they do one thing very right...randomness.
Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
Exactly, if you don't search certain people, as innocent as they may look, that gives drug smugglers or terrorists an advantage.

If it were truely 'random' it would b e more acceptable (not completely acceptable). The searches are done so the TSA can show the public 'look at us we search 10% of everyone flying'. The searches are not 'random' as the PC crowd won't let them racial profile. No 83 year old Grandmother has ever hyjacked an airplane in the US. But young arab males under age 40 have. Other young men and women from other groups have too, but we cannot strip search these people, that would be racial profiling (which actually works, just ask LY).

The TSA continues to fail its own internal security checks to see if anyt weapons get through them and onto planes. In some cities the TSA has failed 50% of its own tests, meaning in those cities half of the unauthorized weapons got through them.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 8):
Exactly. It's not unheard of for CBP to find drugs and weapons on "little old ladies", either with or without their knowledge.

Correct, but those people just got off an airplane, they have already been on one.


User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 6703 times:

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 3):
Although I'm not a fan of the TSA, they do one thing very right...randomness. It's essentially impossible to find a pattern in how they search. This is a good thing for security. Patterns can be exploited.

  

If little old ladies never got search you would just let them be mules. The thoroughly searched terrorist looking people can pick up their goodies from grandma.


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5556 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6577 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 11):
that would be racial profiling (which actually works, just ask LY).

        

It amazes me the sheer amount of times that gets debunked on this very forum, and yet people still claim that Israel both a) practices it and b) that it works, when it's quite the opposite.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinefxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7176 posts, RR: 86
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6568 times:
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If you don't like getting cavity searched take the bus.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 13):
people still claim that Israel both a) practices it

Uh, they do.


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2922 posts, RR: 29
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6556 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 13):
It amazes me the sheer amount of times that gets debunked on this very forum, and yet people still claim that Israel both a) practices it and b) that it works, when it's quite the opposite.

How so?



Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlineGrid From Kazakhstan, joined Apr 2010, 624 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6530 times:

The randomness also helps act as cover for when a TSA agent goes half-cocked: Sorry, but we have to be random ...


ATR72 E120 E140 E170 E190 Q200 717 727 737 747 757 767 777 A319 A320 A321 A330 A340 MD11 MD82 MD83 MD88 MD90
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6497 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 13):
It amazes me the sheer amount of times that gets debunked on this very forum, and yet people still claim that Israel both a) practices it and b) that it works, when it's quite the opposite.

You might like to read these articles.

It clearly mentions that at El Al, they use racial profiling on passengers !

http://www.israelsituation.com/2009/12/in-defence-of-racial-profiling/

http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/17...urity-rest-world-needs-learn-el-al



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5556 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6458 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 17):


It clearly mentions that at El Al, they use racial profiling on passengers !

No, it editorializes. Even after they're done praising the wonders of racial profiling, you get gems like this:

From the first link:

Quote:
he added that profiling based on race and religion was counter-productive and should be avoided



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6430 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 18):
No, it editorializes. Even after they're done praising the wonders of racial profiling, you get gems like this:

From the first link:

And no where do they (El Al) refute the fact either.

As the articles say, with many examples cited, they use racial profiling.

"In London, Philip Baum, editor of Aviation Security International and managing director of Green Light Limited, an airline security company, argued that the current approach was indeed outdated."

Read more: http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/17...ld-needs-learn-el-al#ixzz1fcq0leoh

Which indicates to me they use it, or at the very least have use it.... no ?



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlinetdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6361 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 11):
The searches are not 'random' as the PC crowd won't let them racial profile.

I don't follow you here...if you're profiling then, by definition, it's not random. If they're being forced to not racially profile then that increases, not decreases, the randomness.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 11):
No 83 year old Grandmother has ever hyjacked an airplane in the US. But young arab males under age 40 have.

First of all, the number of US hijackings is so low that I doubt you can get any statistical validity off it. However, even if you do go with that theory, take a look at the hijacking history of US aircraft:
1961: Cuban
1968: Cuban
1970: American
1971: American (2)
1972: American (6)
1976: Croation
1978: American (2)
1985: Lebanese
1986: Pakistani
1994: American
2001: Arab (4)

So, yes, there's a trend there...and it's not Arabs.

Tom.


User currently offlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7384 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5706 times:

"That's possible but something TSA would probably never disclose either way. Whether it's true or not, having your foe think you're a bunch of bumbling incompetents can only help you".

Looking incompetant can only help you. Actually being incompetant, I am not so sure.


User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 885 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5346 times:
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I saw this on the local news.

First, I have to say that the way they treated her was improper. She had a, what, bruise on her leg from her walker and called for help, but was instead whisked away to security (per local news). That's wrong.

However, there's nothing wrong with the strip search itself. The TSA has every right to so, regardless of Age, Gender, etc.

The "innocent" old lady thing doesn't really stand ground. Sure, she's old.. but that doesn't mean she's not a terrorist. The probability is very low, but still there. And she could be sneaking illegal substances inside of her walker, knowingly or unknowingly. Now, I'm not saying she is a terrorist, or that she is smuggling drugs... I'm merely saying that she could be. And that's the TSA's job.. to prevent "could be."

Quoting tdscanuck (Reply 20):
First of all, the number of US hijackings is so low that I doubt you can get any statistical validity off it. However, even if you do go with that theory, take a look at the hijacking history of US aircraft:
1961: Cuban
1968: Cuban
1970: American
1971: American (2)
1972: American (6)
1976: Croation
1978: American (2)
1985: Lebanese
1986: Pakistani
1994: American
2001: Arab (4)

So, yes, there's a trend there...and it's not Arabs.

Tom.

I need to save this post for future reference..



Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9100 posts, RR: 29
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5119 times:

Quoting fxramper (Reply 14):
If you don't like getting cavity searched take the bus.

Human dignity should prevent passengers from "cavity" searches. That may be the rule for convicts but not people just wanting to travel from A to B.

But while we are at it, if that ever happens to me in the US, I will most certainly fart in the face of the searcher, of course, i will apologize immediately. No one can prove that it was intentionally.

What will happen?



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinestandby87 From Switzerland, joined Jul 2001, 536 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4675 times:

Quoting ghifty (Reply 22):
Sure, she's old.. but that doesn't mean she's not a terrorist. The probability is very low, but still there.

There's a probability that the ceiling will collapse on your head right now. The probability is very low, but still there.

There is no such thing as 100% security in life.
Strip-searching an 83 year old women doesn't help reach 100% security.

I don't want passengers with guns, bombs or knives on my aircraft or the aircaft I send my wife and children on.
But I would feel happier if someone has looked through the pax list in advance and checked the names isof. taking the clothes off a wheelchair passenger in what should be the most peaceful, stress-free stage of her life...


25 tdscanuck : Terrorists are many things but stupid isn't generally one of them (at least not the ones who fly airliners in to buildings). How hard do you think it
26 eldanno : Everyone's entitled these days, aren't they? I'm sure if the papers reported every last complaint, the TSA is "violating" every demographic out there.
27 AviRaider : I saw this on the news and the old woman claims she was made to take her underwear off. But a TSA response said that they do not do strip searches. I'
28 BC77008 : She believes she had an unpleasant experience, in which she missed her flight and couldn't fly out until over 2 hours later. She exaggerates what rea
29 nelsonde : TSA: 1) Doesn't strip search. 2) Doesn't tape private screenings. 3) Doesn't profile. 4) Doesn't make old ladies take off their underwear. 5) Won't le
30 longhauler : While I tend to question the word of this 83 year old, one has to remember ... The 83 year old does not have to be a terrorist, she just has to carry
31 Grid : Yeah, sure, anyone could list a bunch of reasons why anyone is a suspect. Actually, there is a trend there ... look at five of the last seven hijacki
32 tdscanuck : Pakistan isn't in the Middle East and the Lebanese are a highly mixed population...calling them "Arabs" (the original claim of appropriate racial pro
33 jfklganyc : Another older lady travelling thru JFK to Florida came forward this morning... As someone that deals with the TSA on a daily basis, please do not give
34 PanHAM : Then you should tell your government to change the function of their agencies. Every customs officer, every tax man, every policeman and even every s
35 tdscanuck : I agree it's almost 100% security theater but the constant argument for profiling baffles me. If you set up any kind of profiling, all you do is guar
36 COEWR787 : The one clearly visible fact is that the period 2002 - 2011 is the first 10 year period in which no American plane has been hijacked since the whole
37 PanHAM : It is the Indian sub continent, to be precise. There is üprofiling, every passenger buying a ticket for a flight to the USA has to submit details to
38 DogsOfWar : and you're very naive! TSA is the problem with air travel within the US today.
39 daviation : What does this show? Only the successful hijackings. Over the last several years, the CIA, FBI, NYC Police, Scotland Yard have uncovered and foiled n
40 MaverickM11 : This thread is worthless without pics ...I keed, I keed...
41 DogsOfWar : This thread is worthless without pics ...I keed, I keed... you're sick! you need help! 83 year old granny panties? yuck!
42 Grid : Right, I know. The claim was that there wasn't a trend; there is. I did not refer to Pakistan - only five (Arab and Lebanese, which is mixed group -
43 Post contains images bennett123 : The worst terrorist attack in the US pre 2001 was Oklahoma City. Timothy McVeigh was American, white and probably ex Military. So stop all WASP ex sol
44 zippyjet : It's all security theatre. Hope this 83 yr young lady is OK and the folks TSA that were ordered to do the deed didn't suffer from a case of TMI.
45 gigneil : I giggled a lot at this. I concur that screening all people is necessary, but they CLEARLY do ALL those things and there is MUCH evidence to support
46 Post contains images steeler83 : THANK YOU! Christ! We really need to watch out for those people with the colostomy bags and urine bags. Yeah, THEY are the REAL threat to our nationa
47 tdscanuck : You tried to carry an un-perscibed white powder through TSA and are surprised they wanted to check what it really was? Tom.
48 gigneil : Yeah, to be fair, I would think that was an obvious trafficking attempt if it were me. NS
49 Grid : It should not take 20 minutes though. I was carrying Black Powder and told them what it was ... TSA tested it and I was on my way in fewer than five
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