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The New United P.S. "Gutted" And "Reborn"  
User currently offlinegkpetery From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 116 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 21060 times:

I'm a fan of the United P.S. Service and I just read on Wiki that they are going to be making significant changes to the fleet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_p.s.

On August, 22, 2011, United Airlines announced the p.s. fleet would be gutted and "reborn" with: Flat-Bed Seats, New Economy Plus Seats, AVOD and Wi-Fi, however these changes include the elimination of United First, making p.s. a two-class service.

Any body know when this is going to start and anything new? Do you think it'll have more Business Class Seats or more Economy Plus seating?

What are the new Economy Plus Seats? I wished they would put personal entertainment systems in their economy like Virgin America... on LAX-JFK.... if they did that, I'll chose United P.S. everytime to LAX - NYC.

115 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9378 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 20917 times:

I think it has been confirmed that they are getting the CO Business First seat, but I don't know if it has been confirmed how many seats they will have. Going from 12F/26J to just 16J seems like a dramatic cut in premium seats especially when the 26J seats are always filled. I wonder if they are trying to reduce upgrades. If that is their goal, I'd see elites defecting to planes headed to EWR where they have a better chance of an upgrade on one of the 737s.

http://www.terminalu.com/travel-news...beds-economy-plus-and-wi-fi/14405/



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2356 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 20560 times:

Quoting gkpetery (Thread starter):
I wished they would put personal entertainment systems in their economy like Virgin America... on LAX-JFK.... if they did that, I'll chose United P.S. everytime to LAX - NYC.

This is confirmed. The refurbished p.s. fleet will have AVOD and power nose-to-tail, as well as wifi.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 2):
Going from 12F/26J to just 16J seems like a dramatic cut in premium seats especially when the 26J seats are always filled.

It won't be just 16 seats. I believe the configuration will be 28J, with 16 seats in A zone and 12 seats aft of 2L/R forward of the overwing exits, with Economy Plus and standard Economy to follow. It will be a loss of 10 premium seats but a substantial gain of Y seats.

Upgrades will still be handled the same way as current p.s. service.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 20020 times:

Future planned two-class configuration is 26/114. Biz class goes until the over-wing exits.

First aircraft planned for second half of 2012, complete in mid 2013.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 19426 times:

I wonder how this will effect contracts.m it is my understanding a lot of screen actors guild contracts and other studios require the highest class of service, would this cause anymore business to be sent to AA. I thought the PS first still actually sold tickets instead of upgrades from J. I guess it not worth the while.

User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 18772 times:

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 4):

Why do you assume that they will go to AA if they want the highest level of service? With everything that is going on there you will likely see wide bodies go on those routes soon as those 762s are gas guzzlers and it would not surprise me is AA followed a similar route that UA are now taking with the 757.

UA will offer lie flats with AVOD and I am sure the onboard service will if anything be enhanced above the current levels.


User currently offlinecruiseshipcrew From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 201 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 18355 times:

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 4):

They no longer require first class. The new updated business seat will be better than the current first seat.



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User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 18092 times:

Changes for PS:

Quote:
When completed in 2013, these aircraft will be in a two-cabin configuration with 26 flat-bed Business Class seats and 114 in Economy. These aircraft will also offer Economy Plus, power ports at every row, on-demand audio and video and Wi-Fi service.

26 Businessfirst flat bed seats
AVOD througout
WIFI
Power ports every row
Economy plus
Regular economy



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5105 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 17930 times:

Watch for AA to do exactly the same thing with some of its new A321s as the 762 replacement. Better one up-to-date premium class than two obsolete ones...


Most gorgeous aircraft: Tu-204-300, 757-200, A330-200, 777-200LR, 787-8
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3176 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 17463 times:

I don't know if AA will.

AA, for all its BK woes, is the hollywood to hollywood leader . . . this will cement that.

Will the 762s stay around? Not long term . . . but there is a reason why AA has a dedicated fleet on these routes.


User currently offlinesq_ek_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1628 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 17460 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 2):
This is confirmed. The refurbished p.s. fleet will have AVOD and power nose-to-tail, as well as wifi.

The current aircraft have WiFi don't they?

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 2):
with Economy Plus and standard Economy to follow.

They are adding Y to PS?? I always thought the absence of Y (while largely ceremonial) added a premium touch to PS.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 3):
First aircraft planned for second half of 2012, complete in mid 2013.

How are they going to deal with aircraft sub-ins during the transition time? Surely with such different configurations on the two aircraft, it isn't just a matter of "oh, got the old config today". Also any ideas of when UA will stop selling F seats on PS? I'd assume it'll be around the time the first 2 class PS birds take to the skies?

I really love UA's PS flights. I think they hit the nail on the head with this one. I'm really hoping the enhancements will keep the big corporate contracts with UA, not loose them to what will be the only 3 class product on this premium heavy route, AA's Flagship service.



Keep Discovering
User currently offlineordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 17306 times:

I agree the 762 will not be around too much longer, not tomorrow but once these airbuses start getting delivered I am betting the 762 will make their way to cargo use or use in bottom tier airlines in other parts of the world, or possibly VCV or other boneyard. If SAG and other Hollywood contracts are fine with J, then UA has nothing to worry about. I do agree the new J seats are much better than the 1990's F and J seats UA and AA still uses. I am sort of suprised still F is getting cut on UA and possibly AA. I always thought people actually paid the F fare (premium cabins on these transcons do not seem to go on sale very often) which would make it worth their while to offer F.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16968 times:

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 10):
They are adding Y to PS?? I always thought the absence of Y (while largely ceremonial) added a premium touch to PS.

They are adding Y to PS.

26C/ 70Y+ / 44Y



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineT5towbar From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 508 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16894 times:

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 5):
Why do you assume that they will go to AA if they want the highest level of service? With everything that is going on there you will likely see wide bodies go on those routes soon as those 762s are gas guzzlers and it would not surprise me is AA followed a similar route that UA are now taking with the 757.

With the AA BK, all bets are off on that one.
More than likely, they will follow suit and use a smaller gauge aircraft than the 767-200.



A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8868 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 16871 times:

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 11):
If SAG and other Hollywood contracts are fine with J, then UA has nothing to worry about. I do agree the new J seats are much better than the 1990's F and J seats UA and AA still uses. I am sort of suprised still F is getting cut on UA and possibly AA. I always thought people actually paid the F fare (premium cabins on these transcons do not seem to go on sale very often) which would make it worth their while to offer F.

SAG was the big one that would pay for the three-cabin F. As noted, as part of the new SAG contract last year, studios were able to win the concession that Business Class was acceptable on transcontinental flights, so a lot of that paid F traffic is now buying J instead.

Now, there are those in the SAG that might still get three-class First (normally A listers with enough clout to make it a demand that would be met), but for the vast majority of people traveling in SAG, it's now J.


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 16835 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):

Some obvious pros and cons to all of this:

26C seems too low for a flight like this. DL has 26F on their domestic 757s!

UA is competing with AA the other carrier who has 3 classes of service. I'm not 100 percent sure but it's been rumored here on the forum that the studios require 3 classes of service. With UA going down to 2, what would UA have to do to lure the corporate contracts to fly 2 classes of service? It seems like AA would benefit in this regard.

The idea of adding Y is a good idea but I like how the current UA has Y+ only. It has a certain degree of status to it. As a result, the fares are generally higher to fly in coach on PS than out of EWR. So maybe with the addition of Y- the fares will go down a bit.

The addition of powerports and AVOD is a great thing. When I flew in J on PS last year I thought the PTV they handed out was extremely crappy.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 16690 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 15):
UA is competing with AA the other carrier who has 3 classes of service.

AA is going to be changing many things in CH-11, the 762s will be leaving. I'm pretty sure you're going to see move towards UA with two class Trans-Con.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 15):
I'm not 100 percent sure but it's been rumored here on the forum that the studios require 3 classes of service

Not anymore;

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 14):
SAG was the big one that would pay for the three-cabin F. As noted, as part of the new SAG contract last year, studios were able to win the concession that Business Class was acceptable on transcontinental flights, so a lot of that paid F traffic is now buying J instead.
Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 15):
The addition of powerports and AVOD is a great thing. When I flew in J on PS last year I thought the PTV they handed out was extremely crappy.

Agreed, I flew with the Wife last year in First on PS JFK-SFO, LAX-JFK. The portable DVR was fine, I just couldn't find anyplace to put it when I was eating.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 752 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 16646 times:

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 10):
They are adding Y to PS?? I always thought the absence of Y (while largely ceremonial) added a premium touch to PS.

PS aircraft have always had Y. This isn't new.


User currently offlinedfambro From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 16623 times:

Any word on the Y+ pitch? The current config is 34" pitch vs. 36" pitch on the rest of the fleet. Will the new config have Y+ at the regular 36" pitch?

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 16590 times:

Quoting toobz (Reply 17):
PS aircraft have always had Y. This isn't new.

No this is new, PS never had regular Y. It was Y+.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDogsOfWar From Ireland, joined Dec 2011, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 16289 times:

Quoting cruiseshipcrew (Reply 6):

You cant do any worse that what they have now. The P.S. service is so lame its sick. Nasty old first seats and tired flight attendants that serve one drink and hide in the galley the rest of the flight.


User currently offlineDLMD90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 16052 times:

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 5):

Why do you assume that they will go to AA if they want the highest level of service? With everything that is going on there you will likely see wide bodies go on those routes soon as those 762s are gas guzzlers and it would not surprise me is AA followed a similar route that UA are now taking with the 757.

Probably will get rid of the 762's but AA's service on this route is far superior to UA.




[quote=DogsOfWar,reply=21]
You cant do any worse that what they have now. The P.S. service is so lame its sick. Nasty old first seats and tired flight attendants that serve one drink and hide in the galley the rest of the flight.

It's pretty pathetic, and the food, compared to AA is a real laugh.


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9378 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 15987 times:

Quoting cruiseshipcrew (Reply 6):

They no longer require first class. The new updated business seat will be better than the current first seat.

The new seats are certainly better for sleeping. However for someone wanting a wide workspace while balancing the portable IFE, eating and a laptop, the old seats were arguably better since there is more storage and they are wider than the new seats. Regardless, upgrading the business does defeat the purpose of the first class. I was always a little confused why they didn't have fully flat seats in F. A 757 will take 72-74'' pitch in the front section with only three rows.

In the end only the non-revs lose. While first was full during the peak times (morning SFO/LAX departures and evening JFK departures), it usually went out with non-revs the rest of the times. Even with the upgrades, it was normal for only 4-6 revenue passengers to be in first class.

Quoting sq_ek_freak (Reply 10):

How are they going to deal with aircraft sub-ins during the transition time? Surely with such different configurations on the two aircraft, it isn't just a matter of "oh, got the old config today". Also any ideas of when UA will stop selling F seats on PS? I'd assume it'll be around the time the first 2 class PS birds take to the skies?

UA currently handles sub-ins by using a 3 class 767. It's a loss of 6 first class seats and overkill in economy, but that's their sub plan.

The P.S. 757 fleet has the lowest utilization in the network. Because timings are well spaced out in the day, it results in pretty bad utilization and tail swaps are pretty easy to be done. The result is that the P.S. 757s are also the most reliable airplanes in the UA network and have the highest dispatch reliability.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2356 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 15987 times:

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 15):
26C seems too low for a flight like this. DL has 26F on their domestic 757s!

Right, but only 16J on the 75Es which fly JFK-LAX/SFO (their BusinessElite service).

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 15):
I'm not 100 percent sure but it's been rumored here on the forum that the studios require 3 classes of service.

Debunked above. I doubt UA would be removing F if the paid demand was still very high. Plus, the updated seats and rumored improvements to the service will probably make new p.s. Business better than current First.

Quoting TOMMY767 (Reply 15):

The idea of adding Y is a good idea but I like how the current UA has Y+ only. It has a certain degree of status to it. As a result, the fares are generally higher to fly in coach on PS than out of EWR. So maybe with the addition of Y- the fares will go down a bit.

United Y fares in the market were competitive with other carriers, and they were giving away the E+ product for nothing. With the new configuration, non-status passengers who purchase Y fares will be required to pay up to E+, and its likely that there will be many takers. Increased revenue is the name of the game.

Quoting dfambro (Reply 18):
Any word on the Y+ pitch? The current config is 34" pitch vs. 36" pitch on the rest of the fleet. Will the new config have Y+ at the regular 36" pitch?

I believe the E+ pitch will be the standard 35-36" instead of the watered-down 34" that is currently offered. With 'regular' E+, AVOD and power, it's a clearly better deal for elite members in the back than current p.s..


User currently offlineTOMMY767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 11
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 16123 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 16):
Agreed, I flew with the Wife last year in First on PS JFK-SFO, LAX-JFK. The portable DVR was fine, I just couldn't find anyplace to put it when I was eating.

That and the touch screen was worn. I had issues playing with the controls.

Quoting DogsOfWar (Reply 21):
You cant do any worse that what they have now. The P.S. service is so lame its sick. Nasty old first seats and tired flight attendants that serve one drink and hide in the galley the rest of the flight.

that's not true. When I flew in J last year on PS it was easily the most intoxiated I've ever been on a plane. Champaigne before takeoff, wine being topped off every 15 minutes, bailys after dinner around dessert time (Baily's is offered with dessert.) Twas a very festive flight.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 23):
The result is that the P.S. 757s are also the most reliable airplanes in the UA network and have the highest dispatch reliability.

Good to know. Hopefully they won't be retired as early as everyone on here says will happen.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
25 n515cr : I will personally miss row 9, arguably one of the best in the domestic fleet! It'll be interesting to see how this affects those booking flights to JF
26 CODC10 : No different than a passenger wishing to buy a UA F ticket BOS-SFO-PVG when BOS-SFO is only two-class service. Even though the cabin may be marketed
27 Post contains images sq_ek_freak : Yes I've seen this, usually on the SFO flights but not on the LAX flights. I was on an LAX that got subbed out and we got a two class 757 instead wit
28 jfklganyc : "AA is going to be changing many things in CH-11, the 762s will be leaving. I'm pretty sure you're going to see move towards UA with two class Trans-C
29 CODC10 : I don't think it's 'disdain' at all. LGA was a reasonably strong outstation for CO with frequent flights to the other hubs and a Presidents Club. Any
30 seabosdca : Sure it does, if AA wants to survive in the premium transcon market. UA's J will now be superior to AA's F, let alone its J. AA will have to introduc
31 TOMMY767 : Oh nice! Well then they should rename it from "premium service" to "positively s***faced" Sounds bad. How was the meal?
32 mbm3 : It is also not out of the question for PS service to be added from SFO/LAX to EWR in support of the TATL flights.
33 STT757 : These PS aircraft would not be getting the upgrades if they were leaving the fleet, it's the other PMUA 757s that will be leaving. Fact: AA is going
34 Post contains images toobz : YIKES...my bad. having flown the route a few times i shouldve known that!! I wasnt awake obviously when I WROTE THAT :- / aplogies to SQ
35 TOMMY767 : UA metal will be back up to 4x daily on the SFO-EWR for next spring and summer. Hopefully a 763 or 777 will be on the route. There is already 3-4 757
36 RoseFlyer : That seems odd. They are supposed to offer downgraded service compensation if you were in F. Not sure about J however. I think UA may be trying to ge
37 Carfield : About United p.s. service, I really think its current F product has significantly watered down from the inaugural flight. Only one F/A was serving the
38 Post contains images sq_ek_freak : Ha! That might be mildly accurate Meal was the standard F breakfast. It was fine. I was in J so I can't speak to that. All I can say was that I was r
39 laca773 : I think AA will make changes to this prior to receiving any A321s. That's a couple of years from now. The mandatory F for SAG and rest is no longer r
40 dartland : Indeed, and I LOVE it. In probably 30+ p.s. flights in 2011, I don't think we were delayed due to inbound aircraft even once. Also -- what is the obs
41 ual777uk : You want to put money on that? And top of yields as well?
42 gigneil : Says Horton. In every interview he's taken since the plane order. NS
43 seabosdca : You may very well be right, but I doubt such changes would involve refitting any aircraft. They'd more likely retire some (half?) of the 762s and rep
44 Post contains images LAXintl : For a certain period there will be two product flying. Really no different then today with IPTE vs non IPTE widebodies or even when p.s. rolled out f
45 Post contains images N62NA : Hehehe, very good choice of a words. I'll have to remember that next time we're talking about AA and DL and their constant disdain for EWR.
46 RoseFlyer : I could have rephrased that. It has the most time for maintenance. JFK, SFO & LAX are all maintenance bases and with just 2 flights per day, ther
47 N1120A : SAG, DGA and AFTRA all allow for C/J on transcon flights now. Remember that non-LAX/SFO-JFK flights have been domestic F for years, and SAG/DGA/AFTRA
48 Post contains images TOMMY767 : Well to be fair CO showed a lot of disdain to almost all airports that weren't IAH or EWR (yes, I'll even throw CLE under the bus in this sense)
49 CODC10 : I don't get it. An airline is not a person. How can a corporation show disdain for anything?
50 Schweigend : Well, I think they'll end up calling it First, like all domestic front cabins are. They will be using International J seats for the product, and thei
51 DeltAirlines : Why? It'll be pretty much the same products as international business. You're seeing more and more carriers move away from a true three-cabin First s
52 NorthstarBoy : I can't help but wonder if all of PMCO's 757s are eventually going to be configured like this? From a "this makes sense to me" perspective, it would a
53 Post contains images Schweigend : Yes, you are right, but US carriers already have been selling the domestic front cabin as "F". Why call a product far superior to that "Business"? Fo
54 slcdeltarumd11 : I think its almost a given that AA will follow the trend and go to narrowbody service eventually. If they keep F or not no one knows. Not true for qui
55 seabosdca : UA still does, at least for some trips. DL also uses its TATL 757s on JFK transcons. It's a similar concept to the new p.s., just with a less premium
56 STT757 : I'm wondering if UA might shuttle PS 757s from JFK to EWR at night for maintenance, kind of like HOU and IAH. They have a major maintenance facility a
57 DogsOfWar : It's pretty pathetic, and the food, compared to AA is a real laugh. I've never flown AA on that route. It isn't bad enough to warrant traveling throu
58 TOMMY767 : Actually since the merger, UA has been flying CO 757s 3-4x on EWR-LAX and SFO. Before that it was maybe 1-2 a day mixed in with a lot of 738s and 739
59 CODC10 : Right, but as a strategy it turned out to be a pretty good one. You can't be all things to all people, so in business it is always prudent to emphasi
60 mogandoCI : UA should leverage their new hubs and expand p.s. to these routes, but only limited to morning and evening peak hours (regular service in daytime) : N
61 TOMMY767 : The hub itself is impressive. Always has been, always will be. My beef with the EWR hub was how CO flooded so many flights (particularly smaller plan
62 STT757 : Tommy, I'm not sure if your aware but there is only one UA hub where there are more mainline flights than regionals. That hub is EWR. Mainline vs reg
63 RoseFlyer : UA does the A checks at LAX (and on rare occasion SEA) and C checks at SFO for the planes. JFK is already a maintenance base for United. There isn't
64 LAXintl : United has a hangar(half hangar to be precise shared with Atlas Air) and rather good sized maintenance team at JFK already. Anyhow - much of the work
65 airzim : The other main reason for this strategy is to prevent another airline (i.e. jetBlue, Southwest, Spirit) from gaining any measurable foothold in Newar
66 STT757 : Speaking of JFK, UA had built about ten years ago a brand new Cargo building at JFK. They also built a nearly identical cargo building at EWR. Both w
67 TOMMY767 : I mean, it's always good to have competition. That explains why EWR's fares are through the roof -- because CO has strangled the market for over 10 y
68 mbm3 : There has been a huge push by high revenue business pax and their corporations to get more premium seats going to EWR. And most of it has to do with
69 LAXintl : United as of this summer is now collocated at JFK with Continental at Bldg 71 on the northeast side of the field for cargo. Interestingly for many tha
70 airzim : That's not Continental's problem. In fact I'm sure they're not that enthusiastic about adding new terminal space and a new runway since that hurts th
71 CODC10 : Slot and gate squatting are hardly issues unique to CO at EWR. You'll find it with DL at ATL, AA at DFW, BA at LHR and plenty of others.
72 gigneil : I was lookin at LAX from EWR some random dates in Dec, and it looked to be almost entirely CO 752s. All you need to make it p.s. like is the menu and
73 mbm3 : ding ding ding we have a winner!
74 rdh3e : I'm not sure what time-frame you're looking at, but for 2011 YTD that is incorrect. EWR has more express than ML (207 UX, 192 ML) and SFO is actually
75 tsnamm : [quote=N62NA,reply=45]Hehehe, very good choice of a words. I'll have to remember that next time we're talking about AA and DL and their constant disda
76 airzim : Either does Air Canada. However, they serve the New York Metro market from both LGA and EWR without the need to have an operation at JFK. Unless your
77 STT757 : Subtract 1 from IAD and add 1 to EWR for EZE.
78 CODC10 : From an official point of view, CO is gone, and the remaining distinctions will be progressively reduced. UA's JFK operation is about the same size i
79 N1120A : Actually, according to the current Supreme Court, a corporate is a person. They don't "really" need to do anything, but its not a bad idea. Actually,
80 Post contains images gigneil : They're flying right now sir . They don't cancel daily flights on December 7th. NS
81 airzim : I wasn't suggesting that, I was attempting to explain why CO doesn't operate from JFK. However, you've made my point, they have to fly from JFK to LA
82 N1120A : Except that UA had a major operation at JFK for quite some time, and still has a good deal of the market. Also, the demand from LAX/SFO is to JFK - e
83 airzim : The demand from LAX/SFO is to New York. If UA could run flights from LAX and SFO to LGA they'd be out of there in two seconds. United historic presen
84 dfambro : But many of us UA FFs would like them to expand p.s. service!
85 mogandoCI : Why not supplement 7x JFK with something like 2-4x EWR ? That way premium customers from SFO/LAX can fly flat-bed all the way out to Europe instead o
86 gigneil : Like I was sayin above, they do that now sir, with the CO international 757s. Satisfies the front cabin needs. NS
87 mogandoCI : I know they have occasional frequencies (i'm booked on one of those in late-Jan... sadly, in Y), but my point being elevating them to p.s. service le
88 seabosdca : 41 TATL 757s is really more than UA/CO needs. The transcons are a lucrative and appropriate way to keep them busy. Those 752s on the EWR transcons ar
89 CODC10 : A corporation is a person under the law, but the law does not make said corporation a sentient being capable of disdain.
90 jfklganyc : It's the JFK-LAX route that keeps these premium services at JFK, not EWR. It's Hollywood to Hollywood. Why the celebrities don't use EWR, I don't know
91 gigneil : I don't get it either. JFK is the least convenient airport in the area - Newark is far superior in that regard. Who knows? NS
92 LAXintl : Regarding International services, I hope everyone realizes the United p.s. 757s are all non-etops. Matter of fact UA only has a very small 757 ETOPS s
93 seabosdca : Which are leaving starting next year and ending in 2013, because even celebrities can't make an unprofitable aircraft magically profitable. Like ever
94 STT757 : We know the configuration of the PS 757s post refurbishment, 26C, 70Y+, 44Y, what will PMCO's 757s configuration be post Y+ ? In terms of hard produc
95 gigneil : That we have no idea. There's been almost no internal discussion of the layouts of the PMCO planes except the 764s. Its kinda strange that there's su
96 STT757 : I'm wondering how close the configurations will be in Y+ between PMCO's 757s and the reconfigured PS 757s.
97 LAXintl : 752 = 16-45-108 = TTL 169 753 = 24-39-150 = TTL 213 752 conversions commence this weekend mostly @ LAX and MCO during 24-hour layovers. 753 planned f
98 STT757 : Thanks LAXintl.
99 Post contains images VC10er : I am sure UA planners know more than me, but the small F class was "home" to celebs and big execs. I have done the p.s. route JFK / LAX route many tim
100 tsnamm : The comparison is not weak at all...inheriting the current UA operation at JFK had nothing to do with CO's historical lack of service at JFK compared
101 tsnamm : In a word No...CO's cargo operation in Bldg 71 is a newer facility than UA Bldg 23 which has basically sat vacant since they had outsourced their car
102 T5towbar : Not going to happen. There's this big tall building being built in Lower Manhattan.........
103 gigneil : You would very obviously get a business seat. The BF seat is _much_ nicer than the F seat currently on board. NS
104 gigneil : This is great information. Thank ye. NS
105 questions : How about... A319 - 6 Int'l First Suites - Balance lie flat, United Business JFK-LAX/SFO And... JFK-LHR
106 Post contains images DogsOfWar : you got lucky, i was on a flight from JFK-SFO about 2 months ago and it was laughable! i dont drink the girly drinks so i guess i was out of luck
107 Post contains images TOMMY767 : To be fair the EWR-CDG flight will stop in March and there are no plans for DL to take it over, yet. EWR-LAX/SFO has been seeing CO 757s on the route
108 Post contains images rdh3e : Harder seats perhaps?
109 mogandoCI : I'm not saying throw it away, merely swap with renovated UA birds that aren't designed for TATL. Also, post merger, there might be more use of those
110 TOMMY767 : NO! They better not touch those seats. They are way more comfortable than anything CO has. Would be interesting to see UA do a european route again f
111 sq_ek_freak : My last flight on P.S. I had Kate Bosworth, Kristen Bell and Hayden Christensen all on the same flight, all in the tiny F class cabin! That said this
112 N62NA : Most of these people flying in First or Business class are arriving in towne cars / limosines, so it's not really an issue for them per se. However,
113 mogandoCI : Let's assume the customer base is split 50/50 between east of Manhattan and west of Manhattan. DL/AA needing to serve EWR because they can't afford n
114 CODC10 : Ah, yes. I didn't know Delta lists CDG as a hub. So let's call it, "DL service to all domestic hubs, plus AMS." As far as DL taking over the route, I
115 STT757 : Open Skies has been very succesful in getting corporate contracts on EWR-ORY.
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