runway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2038 posts, RR: 39 Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5965 times:
Quoting Alsatian (Reply 2): From Nice, AF will launch 6 new destinations, including Barcelona, Istanbul and Tel Aviv.
Somewhat surprising that AF is neglecting NCE compared to MRS/TLS, when you consider that NCE is probably the destination the most exposed to LCCs in France.
Also quite surprising to see the absence of serving London from all these bases. It seems that AF is avoiding head on confrontation with BA and LX on some routes.
In addition, some routes see capacity increase, TLS- SXB for example : from 18 flights per week with Embraer 145 currently to 12 flights with A319/320.
I will try to do a summary table of all these changes asap ( or someone is already trying to do it )
runway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2038 posts, RR: 39 Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5726 times:
Quoting Alsatian (Reply 4): In addition, some routes see capacity increase, TLS- SXB for example : from 18 flights per week with Embraer 145 currently to 12 flights with A319/320.
Some of the scheduled departure times and days make the routes somewhat laughable.
Why schedule TLS-GVA daily, except during weekends with a mid-morning departure from TLS? This will essentially make their route irrelevant to many people.
The same can be said with Venice, where a Friday departure is missing.
Somehow it seems that AF has not given much practical thought to their timetable.
varig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1575 posts, RR: 9 Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5623 times:
Merci Alsatian for the news
I sort of understand the efforts and new routes out of TLS but TLS-MLA?
who wants to go to MLA in the first place and from TLS in particular?
is there an A component factory there?
I see this one not lasting for long
A bit disapointed that NCE is not more developped....
TLV should work I guess but where is BEY??
and IST? TK is on the line already and LX has very good prices to IST out of NCE....sounds like a bloodbath for someone
AF TW AA NW BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ RG
runway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2038 posts, RR: 39 Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5493 times:
Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 7): A bit disapointed that NCE is not more developped....
TLV should work I guess but where is BEY??
and IST? TK is on the line already and LX has very good prices to IST out of NCE....sounds like a bloodbath for someone
Indeed BEY would have made a lot more sense, my knowledge of Jewish retuals is quite limited, but doesn't their schedule from Nice on Saturdays fall right during shabbat ? Seems to proove once again that they really have a poor schedule analysis.
AF4384 NCE 14:45-19:20 TLV 6
AF4385 TLV 20:30-23:45 NCE 6
Let's also note that on NCE-BCN, AF is now up against Iberia, Spanair and easyJet. That's a lot of competition.
I'm somewhat surprised AF didn't increase their capacity on domestic routes from NCE, where the TGV is not present yet. LIL, SXB, ETZ, MLH with bigger gauge aircraft would have made more sense than some of their new routes.
caribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1627 posts, RR: 9 Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5480 times:
Would be nice to see Air France starting sending some long hauls from Nice & Toulouse to YUL. Lyon could be another potential city for North American service. I've never understood why France has never been opened up by it's own National carrier. Why funnel everything through Paris? Thankfully Air Transat is able to offer the direct flight alternatives.
smokinL1011 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 122 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5374 times:
Quoting runway23 (Reply 8): my knowledge of Jewish retuals is quite limited, but doesn't their schedule from Nice on Saturdays fall right during shabbat ?
Most Israelis are secular and there isn't a huge orthodox Jewish community in the Nice area, plus, for leisure travelers flying in or out of TLV on shabbat there is the big benefit of LY not operating and the airport being much less busy.
I'm moving to Nice next year and I hope the TLV service is a success and keeps a shabbat schedule for easy flights to one of my favourite cities.
shamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4039 posts, RR: 13 Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 5048 times:
Quoting runway23 (Reply 3): Also quite surprising to see the absence of serving London from all these bases. It seems that AF is avoiding head on confrontation with BA and LX on some routes.
They are completely avoiding not just London, but the whole UK, and Ireland - in others staying well clear of the "home turf" of Europe's two major LCC's.
It seems designed to prevent EZY and FR from spreading their networks from France, but staying away from direct competition on their home routes to avoid starting a major commercial battle.
AF is now basically emulating the Aerlingus model of competing with the low costs - remain an airline with a predominantly "service" ethic, but run like a loco.
Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
AF777300ER From France, joined Aug 2007, 71 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4978 times:
Really disappointing for NCE, no new international destinations in fact for the airport, and some domestic destinations like BOD from NCE are unchanged (still 2 Embraer 170 daily) when Easyjet arrives on the line with Airbus A319 three or four times weekly...
Next trip : BOD / CDG / SXM / SFG / SBH / EIS / STT / AXA / PTP / FDF / ORY
jpyvr From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 119 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4809 times:
Quoting varig md-11 (Reply 7): who wants to go to MLA in the first place
I'm not sure why it was necessary to add an opinion about the value or non-value of traveling to Malta. I'm not Maltese, nor do I have Maltese relatives or ancestry, but I did live there for a year around 2005. I found the people charming and welcoming, and most of the (many thousands) of visitors that I spoke to enjoyed their visit very much.
Whether there is a valid commercial reason for AF to fly from TLS to MLA seems to me to be a valid point of discussion on this forum, but snide side-comments seem out of place to me.
cuban8 From Kiribati, joined Sep 2009, 207 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4760 times:
I didn't know there was that much potential out of TLS, but I guess I have not enough insight to have an educated thought on that particular airport and region.
When it comes to Nice, I would have expected a flight to Moscow and at least one or two Scandinavian destinations. I also think that AF has nothing to gain on the Istanbul route against TK.
mozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2014 posts, RR: 14 Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4085 times:
Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 12): AF is now basically emulating the Aerlingus model of competing with the low costs - remain an airline with a predominantly "service" ethic, but run like a loco.
...and we all know how well that did or didn't work.
It seems everyone wants a piece of NCE and TLS. It will be interesting to see how the two fair in the next year or so. Hardly large commitment from EZY with 2 aircraft at each, but certainly a foundation to build upon.
varig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1575 posts, RR: 9 Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1542 times:
Quoting jpyvr (Reply 14): I'm not sure why it was necessary to add an opinion about the value or non-value of traveling to Malta. I'm not Maltese, nor do I have Maltese relatives or ancestry, but I did live there for a year around 2005. I found the people charming and welcoming, and most of the (many thousands) of visitors that I spoke to enjoyed their visit very much.
Whether there is a valid commercial reason for AF to fly from TLS to MLA seems to me to be a valid point of discussion on this forum, but snide side-comments seem out of place to me.
Sorry, but you obviously put more passion in it than I intended to....
I meant: from TLS who needs to go to MLA to do what, for what purpose?
TLS is in the South just between the Ocean and Mediterranean, close to BCN, so people take their cars to have a break rather than flying to MLA: this destination choice is rather odd to me knowing very well people from TLS
Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 11): An A.netter's beliefs against AF's analysis. Hmm.
Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 11): Hmm... so you know more than AF?
Oh please!!! if AF was so good they would have made a profit in the last 3 years.....and AF has not the reputation of "knowing" a lot of things at the moment (cf. the C class seats, the horrific Y 10 abreast etc etc)
AF TW AA NW BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ RG
LifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1880 posts, RR: 8 Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1537 times:
Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 12): They are completely avoiding not just London, but the whole UK, and Ireland - in others staying well clear of the "home turf" of Europe's two major LCC's.
I suspect to see a step-up from daughter CityJet to commence in 2012... The UK is often LCC territory. AF mainline has a cost structure that doesn't have much room to compete on price with those airlines. CityJet on the other hand is a much leaner organisation who probably can.
r2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2249 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1344 times:
This is great news, particularly TLS was in my opinion (and U2 & VY's as well) an underserved market. It's good to see AF starting to unlock the potential of the French regions rather than having everyone go through CDG. It took U2's rapid expansion in France to make them realize this, but better late than never. Any idea how many a/c will be based at each?
The expansion seems to be more oriented towards adding a large number of destinations than having lots of frequencies. Makes sense, as this is a first step, and what people in the French regions miss most is not frequency (of which they have plenty through CDG), but direct connections. Also, you can't fill a multiple daily A319 / A320 on many of these destinations. If things go well, I could see a frequency increase in the future.
Quoting Alsatian (Reply 20): Don' t forget that Vueling has a base at Toulouse since april. It smells the bloodbath.
Indeed, some of these routes are a direct assault on VY & U2 who have just set up base there, but also others:
ATH 1 3 6 7 completely new
TXL 3 5 6 7 completely new
BRU 1 3 5 6 7 served by U2
CMN 1 4 6 served by Royal Air Maroc & Jet4you
GVA 1 2 3 4 5 served by U2
HAM 1 2 3 5 6 return of a former short-lived CityJet flight
IST 2 4 6 served by TK
AGP 2 4 6 served by VY
MLA 6 7 was once served by Air Malta
RAK 6 7 served by Royal Air Maroc & Jet4you
NAP 4 6 completely new
PRG 1 3 5 6 7 served by VY
SVQ 1 3 5 7 served by IB
TUN 2 4 6 7 served by Tunisair
VCE 2 4 7 served by U2 & VY
VIE 2 5 6 7 completely new
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