Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
United And The New 747-8  
User currently offlinemarcouscg From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 11 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 21692 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I was wondering since United is going to now get the 787 after they have observed ANA and get more Information to see if it really is efficient as advertised through Boeing.Questions is if they would reconsider the new 747-800 to substitute the 747-400 versions so that they somewhat renew their fleet and maybe have a better chance in these economical times and through out the merge now with CO they could even make a better range in the list of Airlines?

41 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9666 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 21641 times:

There's a thread on UA purchasing the A380 which is a couple days old and the same arguments apply to the 747-8. UA management has said they want smaller aircraft. The 747-400 is already too much aircraft on many of their routes. I don't see the 747-8 as likely.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinerjm777ual From UK - England, joined Nov 2011, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 21342 times:

Doubtful. UA is replacing their current 744's with A350 XWB's, so this is unlikely.


Greetings from Dulles!
User currently offlinedennys From France, joined May 2001, 894 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 21162 times:

I cann't see how can the A350 can be compared to a 744.
however the 747-8i would be good news for an USA to support their new VLA , the 747-8i .


User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2971 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 20976 times:

I am not sure what revelance ANA operating the 787 has on UA's decision on the 748.
It's better to ask the other Star partner on the oppossite side of the ocean to see the the performance when it is in service.


User currently offlinerjm777ual From UK - England, joined Nov 2011, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 20954 times:

UA is going to replace their 744's with A350 XWB's. It says on the UA website, AND has been discussed before.


Greetings from Dulles!
User currently offlinedennys From France, joined May 2001, 894 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 20828 times:

Well , even if discussed before , should the US Carrier support their home made new 747-8i , this would sound like "suitable" or more understandable .

User currently onlineseabosdca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5589 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 20706 times:

Quoting dennys (Reply 3):
I cann't see how can the A350 can be compared to a 744.

Put in the same premium cabin, and many fewer economy seats, and it's a very, VERY nice comparison.

Quoting dennys (Reply 6):
should the US Carrier support their home made new 747-8i

A US carrier or any other carrier has an obligation to its shareholders to buy whatever aircraft will make it the most money, homemade or not.


User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3664 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 20226 times:

Quoting dennys (Reply 3):
I cann't see how can the A350 can be compared to a 744.
however the 747-8i would be good news for an USA to support their new VLA , the 747-8i .




I agree completely, but if UA has to down size, I think an A350 is a better choice than a 77W. It has a better cruising speed ( same as a 744) and a more comfortable cabin. Hey, I would love to see an A380 or a 747-8I in UA livery, but if they have to down size, they picked a good plane to do it with.


User currently offlinewdleiser From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 961 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 18772 times:

Quoting dennys (Reply 6):

This is kind of like saying buy US cars and trucks... you know the ones now made in Canada and Mexico.... and screw those foreign made vehicles... you know the ones that are actually made in Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina etc...

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the 747 and I am so happy that LH is getting the 748. I also really like the A380, A340, A330, 767, 757 and 777.

Airplanes are globally made now with parts from all over. It is now really just final assembly and corporate headquarters that dictates Boeing being American made and Airbus being European made...

[Edited 2011-12-06 04:59:58]

User currently offlineAAplat4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 198 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 18488 times:

I can actually see United reconsidering its A350 goals, even if it keeps its order. It ordered the A350 before the merger when its financial condition was still a bit weak and Airbus was hungry for launch orders. It is much stronger now and has different management. Just like AA reconsidered its all Boeing fleet, things change.

With its impressive route structure and several hubs providing more flights from several different U.S. cities, this undermines the need for the VLA like the 380 and 747. The risk with the 380 at this point for UA would be filling the capacity throughout a year rather than in just peak months and airport handling. The 747-8i might be able to address these factors, since it is smaller and should fit at airports that currently have 747 service. For example, I don't see how UA could fit the A380 at T1 at ORD or at its current gates at SFO or LAX. Other terminals at those airports might work, but not the ones that UA currently uses.

Still, I think that the A359 is now going to be too small for United in terms of a 744 replacement. I would, therefore, expect it to reconsider a 77W order, and think that this would happen before it orders either the 748 or A380. I will admit that I think the 748 is probably one of the most stunning aircrafts ever built, but so far I have not been hearing anything supporting impressive operating cost improvements compare to the A380. So it seems hard to make the case here for either the A380 or 747-8 at United.


User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3664 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 18308 times:

Quoting wdleiser (Reply 9):
Quoting dennys (Reply 6):


This is kind of like saying buy US cars and trucks... you know the ones now made in Canada and Mexico.... and screw those foreign made vehicles... you know the ones that are actually made in Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina etc...

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the 747 and I am so happy that LH is getting the 748. I also really like the A380, A340, A330, 767, 757 and 777.

Airplanes are globally made now with parts from all over. It is now really just final assembly and corporate headquarters that dictates Boeing being American made and Airbus being European made...

[Edited 2011-12-06 04:59:58]




Also, if you think about it, France has a major part in Airbus, but Air France do not just order Airbus, but they give Boeing a good amount of support also.

I was born and rise in the United States, and I am proud to be an American, but I would be telling a lie, if said that I only support Boeing products. I love both A380s and 747s, I think an A330 is much better a/c than 767.


User currently offlinevgnatl747 From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1514 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 18190 times:

Quoting dennys (Reply 6):

Well , even if discussed before , should the US Carrier support their home made new 747-8i , this would sound like "suitable" or more understandable .

No. As much as I'd like to see it, the new UA needs the right aircraft, with the right economics, to meet the right demand, on the right route. Simply buying Boeing because they're a US based carrier just isn't smart. As a CO (errr... now UA) elite, I want to see the airline make the right decisions to keep them financially viable and growing. If that means more Airbus because they make better sense on certain routes, then so be it.

The days of "the gentlemen's agreements" are over. Airlines need to do what's smart, and what makes sense for them, not buy a specific manufacturer for nostalgic purposes.



Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3634 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 18150 times:

Quoting AAplat4life (Reply 10):
I can actually see United reconsidering its A350 goals, even if it keeps its order. It ordered the A350 before the merger when its financial condition was still a bit weak and Airbus was hungry for launch orders. It is much stronger now and has different management. Just like AA reconsidered its all Boeing fleet, things change.

Now that UA have ordeered the A350, they are likely to either have to take delivery, or roll over their order into a commitment for another Airbus model to the same value.


User currently offlineairproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 638 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 16432 times:

Quoting rjm777ual (Reply 5):
UA is going to replace their 744's with A350 XWB's.
Quoting dennys (Reply 3):
I cann't see how can the A350 can be compared to a 744.

Neither do I.

The 744 has been a long time workhorse, with everything that makes Boeing so popular to Major Carriers: Range, Reliability and Payload.
I highly doubt an A350 can compete these 3 ways at the same time. Efficiency alone doesn't make a good plane.
If UA would have replaced its 744 fleet with something close, not similar, they would have considered the 77W directly, considering its existing fleet of 772ERs.
I still believe the 747-8i has a great future on some UA routes, such as Australia and Asia...



If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
User currently offlineBlueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 16213 times:

is there a link to back this up or is this a Rumor????


B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
User currently offlinegigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 85
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 16086 times:

There is nothing to back up... and not even a rumor.

The 747-8 is just not a competitive plane, and I cannot see United buying any. If BA couldn't be sold, then I doubt United can.

Also I want to point out that Continental ordered 787s like 8 years ago. If someone waited to see how it worked with ANA, they'd be taking delivery of their order in 2020.

NS


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4299 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 16002 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 7):
Put in the same premium cabin, and many fewer economy seats, and it's a very, VERY nice comparison.

In days gone by -- that was Northwest Airlines's logic for selecting the A332 for some of their trans-Pacific routes -- to *cut* capacity by reducing seats and to elevate fares accordingly.


User currently offlineDogsOfWar From Ireland, joined Dec 2011, 36 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 15710 times:

i would rather see the 747-8 vs the a380 or any other airbus widebody.

User currently offlineairproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 638 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 15378 times:

Quoting DogsOfWar (Reply 18):
i would rather see the 747-8 vs the a380 or any other airbus widebody.

Same here  



If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
User currently offlineairproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 638 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 15234 times:

Quoting gigneil (Reply 16):

The 747-8 is just not a competitive plane

Say that to Lufthansa!
It is, unfortunately for you, but very fortunately for us, not true, and at least, not as simple as you said.
The 747 has proved for many decades now its reliability, no doubt the new born -8 will stay on the same tracks. The new designs have a lot to demonstrate compared to this monument. That can be one, between many, point that airlines willing to purchase LH aircrafts will take into account.
On a side note, the A380, proportionally offers far less payload than a B744, and obviously far far more than a -8i. Ask about efficiency... The new 74' has still a word to say.



If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
User currently offlinecaptainstefan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 14115 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 8):
I agree completely, but if UA has to down size, I think an A350 is a better choice than a 77W. It has a better cruising speed ( same as a 744) and a more comfortable cabin.

Just keep in mind that it hasn't even flown yet. The 787 had trouble keeping promises of performance, and it would be no surprise for Airbus to encounter similar problems.



Long Live the Tulip!
User currently offlineEWRandMDW From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 416 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 13602 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 8):
I agree completely, but if UA has to down size, I think an A350 is a better choice than a 77W. It has a better cruising speed ( same as a 744) and a more comfortable cabin.

Pardon me, but to the best of my knowledge, there is no A350 in existence aside from schematics and an incomplete shell, so I don't see how a true comparison is possible! On paper (or a computer screen) anything can be made to appear better!


User currently offline4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 3028 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 13029 times:

United has a 744 on the way to Marana as we speak...
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U...5/history/20111206/1730Z/KSFO/KMZJ

Just sayin.



Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
User currently offlinerjm777ual From UK - England, joined Nov 2011, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 11999 times:

The way i see it, The 747-8 is mainly a cargo airplane; more cargo airlines have ordered it than passengers.


Greetings from Dulles!
25 gigneil : Every dog has its day. And still, the plane has practically no sales. I keep on top of these things. I read what has been posted by people far smarte
26 United727 : Ok, so enough of the maybe, possibly, could be, this is what they're doing posts.... I guess one would ask the million dollar question then, Is United
27 jetjack74 : How do you know? The aircraft hasn't even been assembled yet.
28 gigneil : No, they DON'T want that. Nobody here can know anything about the delivery of the A350. As of right now, its very near on schedule and nobody has any
29 qfa787380 : Well glad to know we can just refer to you for this information. Heck the plane hasn't entered revenue service yet and you have called it uncompetiti
30 gigneil : Why don't you bother to do research before talking back? The 747-8 has lost every competitive contest except Lufthansa. Hence, not. competitive. aircr
31 Post contains images PA110 : Nope, just wishful thinking by fanboys. I have to admit, I'm a bit surprised that UA hadn't swapped a few 744s for 77Ws, however, I guess they either
32 Cerecl : I don' t get the consistent questioning of this order. Is it so hard to envision UA adopting a two pronged approach to its 744 replacement? Thinner r
33 airproxx : Indeed, but I keep in mind the difficult start of the 777 in its early days, and the commercial success of today. Let the 747-8i make its way. I'm su
34 qfa787380 : Wow, your arrogance is staggering and how you have a RR of 92 absolutely escapes me. FYI, I am not a fan of VLAs in general and believe that UA will
35 Post contains images kgaiflyer : In general, those inside the aviation industry (ignore the profiles -- many are dummied) have high ratings as a result of taking it in the neck from
36 Post contains images kgaiflyer : Then there are a few of us who get testy when we're off our meds.
37 gigneil : You know the cruising speed of an aircraft when you draw it on paper. Otherwise there'd be no way to sell it in advance. Because I don't follow the l
38 qfa787380 : But you have been on this site for a long time and honestly you offer very little in the way of new knowledge(not that I do either). I just can't fat
39 gigneil : You're right. I know nothing. NS
40 kgaiflyer : Guys, As the Mods are always telling me, "Debate the topic and not the member." We need to get back on topic. ---------------------------------------
41 gigneil : I'd imagine pretty immediately... NS
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Doors On The New 747-8 posted Fri Feb 12 2010 09:26:56 by rj85fan
Avianca At CLO - The MD, The Ugly And The New posted Sat Jan 2 2010 14:21:22 by Clo1973
Diabetics And The New Security Regulations posted Sat Feb 24 2007 12:03:37 by Knightsofmalta
Delta At Sxm And The New Terminal posted Wed Dec 27 2006 06:04:59 by JumboJet
UA And The New Seats posted Mon Aug 28 2006 18:43:31 by FL370
Composite Divide: Airbus, Boeing And The New A350 posted Fri May 12 2006 12:06:17 by A380900
AC's B762 And The New C/S posted Wed Mar 2 2005 14:21:19 by Krisyyz
A Tribute To Concorde And The Classic 747's posted Fri Jan 7 2005 17:21:30 by Howard500
And The New UA Int'l Routes Are... posted Fri Oct 8 2004 04:38:52 by Nomorerjs
Northwest Airlines And The New Boeing 7E7 posted Fri Jun 18 2004 00:34:14 by JetJock
The New United And The 767-400ER posted Thu Jun 24 2010 17:21:07 by 1337Delta764
JFK And The New UA posted Thu Jan 26 2012 14:09:44 by ORD Boy 2
Doors On The New 747-8 posted Fri Feb 12 2010 09:26:56 by rj85fan
Avianca At CLO - The MD, The Ugly And The New posted Sat Jan 2 2010 14:21:22 by Clo1973
Diabetics And The New Security Regulations posted Sat Feb 24 2007 12:03:37 by Knightsofmalta
Delta At Sxm And The New Terminal posted Wed Dec 27 2006 06:04:59 by JumboJet
UA And The New Seats posted Mon Aug 28 2006 18:43:31 by FL370
Composite Divide: Airbus, Boeing And The New A350 posted Fri May 12 2006 12:06:17 by A380900
AC's B762 And The New C/S posted Wed Mar 2 2005 14:21:19 by Krisyyz
A Tribute To Concorde And The Classic 747's posted Fri Jan 7 2005 17:21:30 by Howard500