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New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 107  
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1761 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 17365 times:

Welcome to New Zealand Aviation Thread 107.

In New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 106 (by cchan Nov 15 2011 in Civil Aviation) we discussed:

- ZK-OJR enters service
- Seat to Suit marketing in NZ's domestic services
- Is NZ a LCC?
- Career of Mr Fyfe
- NZ's lost opportunities due to late 789 delivery
- Usual moaning of Airpoints programme in almost every thread
- Is the OneSmart function in the new Airpoints card useful?
- NZ and possible government asset sales
- Does NZ management has brains and balls?
- NZ's traffic rights
- NZ's cost based compared to other airlines

Other current threads related to New Zealand aviation:

NZ Erebus Crash Anniversary Today (by lmml 14/32 Nov 28 2011 in Civil Aviation)

207 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1761 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 17351 times:

Quoting BlackLabel (Reply 237):
I agree that the new OneSmart thing is a gimmick with extremely limited value - it makes me wonder how much cost (time, money, marketing, IT effort, etc) went into it that could have been used in other ways to actually make the airline and/or passenger life better. I'm also very curious where they got the market research information that indicates this is something passengers actually want.

I wish that NZ would focus on being a good airline, rather than a series of expensive and poorly thought out (and oft-reversed!) gimmicks.

The OneSmart thing would be a good idea if there aren't similar cards already around. We don't know who is bearing most of the cost in developing this, it could be NZ or Bank of New Zealand or some other parties. If NZ isn't bearing the development costs, then there is little harm in doing it.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25370 posts, RR: 49
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 17277 times:

I hear NZ is talking about terminal move at LAX come 2013.

With completion of renovations at TBIT they are eyeing a move over. From cost perspective while per passenger charges might ultimately be higher at the new TBIT they likely do get nice offsets such no longer needing to lease and run their own premium lounge by utilizing the Star Alliance facility instead, plus probably some efficiency with ground handling as NZs vendor is primarily based out of TBIT and could likely cross utilize staff, equipment and ticket counters better then dedicating folks to go over to T-2 and handle NZ exclusively as done today.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBlackLabel From New Zealand, joined Jan 2008, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 17254 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 1):
The OneSmart thing would be a good idea if there aren't similar cards already around. We don't know who is bearing most of the cost in developing this, it could be NZ or Bank of New Zealand or some other parties. If NZ isn't bearing the development costs, then there is little harm in doing it.

I agree it could be NZ or BNZ (or both), but NZ seems to be the primary marketer, combined with infrastructure development costs on the Airpoints side, is money that could be better spent elsewhere.


User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 17228 times:

Quoting BlackLabel (Reply 3):
I agree it could be NZ or BNZ (or both), but NZ seems to be the primary marketer, combined with infrastructure development costs on the Airpoints side, is money that could be better spent elsewhere.

Add ourairnz.co.nz to the list. Just how many people are interested in that site? I wouldn't visit it once every 3 months. And also seems they have given up adding new contents in there as well.


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 17214 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
they likely do get nice offsets such no longer needing to lease and run their own premium lounge by utilizing the Star Alliance facility instead

Air NZ do a wonderful job with their lounge at LAX. It has a great view and nice facilities. That *A lounge would have to at least match the standard of the current NZ lounge. At current, it gives a taste of New Zealand by offering NZ beer and wine - something I cannot see happening if they were to go to a *A lounge. But we all know that their long haul services are losing money so it could become inevitable.

You have to wonder how much better TBIT will be once it's fully renovated as well. If it's just as chaotic as it has been, NZ would be wise sticking with T2.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 17203 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
I hear NZ is talking about terminal move at LAX come 2013.

This is part of the *A Move Under One Roof project I believe. I remember seeing a masterplan somewhere.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7189 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 17151 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):
I hear NZ is talking about terminal move at LAX come 2013.

I think T2/T3 will return to 'domestic/North America' services and all the international such as VS/AF/KL/NZ/TA flights will migrate to TBIT.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 17137 times:

Switch from T2 to TBIT?

There goes another advantage of choosing Air New Zealand! Let's hope it's just another hare-brained idea. For me, LAX has the airline's flagship lounge, and I'd hate not to see their French lounge manager again, as he is a

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):

I hear NZ is talking about terminal move at LAX come 2013.

That would be disappointing.

The LAX lounge is the nicest in the network by far, and as other posters have written feels like home for Kiwi and British passengers alike.

More to the point, regardless of class of travel, the nice small scale of T2 ensures that the nastiest of the LAX experience ends when you enter the terminal.

It makes me worry that Fyfe really might be planning to abandon the LAX-LHR sector.


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7189 posts, RR: 13
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 17100 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 9):
There goes another advantage of choosing Air New Zealand!

You make it sound like they want to change and will be given a choice by LAX airport management. I'm not convinced this is a NZ decision at all - like you say NZ is happy, and has spent a lot of money bringing the lounge up to spec, including contracts to other carriers for use.


User currently offlineaklrno From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 941 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 16954 times:

I'd hate to see NZ move out of T-2 to TBIT because it is the easiest and fastest terminal for passengers. Very short walks.

I thought T-2 was owned by a consortium of airlines on land leased from LAWA, and NZ is one of the owners. Could LAWA force them out of their own building if they didn't want to go? Also, for passengers transferring to their Star alliance partner United it is easier to walk from T-6//7/8 to T2 than it is to walk from T6/7/8 to TBIT. Does anyone know where the majority of connecting passengers to/from NZ are connecting to?

If this is done. I hope it isn't soon. Although some of the new TBIT opens in about 13 months, the last of the gates won't open until the old TBIT piers are demolished and the new apron built about 2 years from now.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25370 posts, RR: 49
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 16923 times:

Nothing is definite, however the shift to the remodeled TBIT is becoming more of a reality for operators.
For example, Air France will be making a move when it starts A380 ops in 2012 summer.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 5):
Air NZ do a wonderful job with their lounge at LAX.

But probably cost a pretty penny on rentals and operating cost.

Quoting aklrno (Reply 10):
I thought T-2 was owned by a consortium of airlines on land leased from LAWA,

Yes LAX-Two Corp which was Pan Am-Northwest originally and became Air Canada-Hawaiian-Northwest.

However in April 2010, LAWA bought up the 40-year bonds on the facility and bough out the members for $117mil, and now owns the facility. LAWA elected to have the consortium management agreement continue through June 2013.


Quoting aklrno (Reply 10):
and NZ is one of the owners.

NZ was never an owner. Simply a tenant, like the dozen or so others.

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 6):
This is part of the *A Move Under One Roof project I believe. I remember seeing a masterplan somewhere.

Yes Star has designated LAX as part of the 'Under One Roof' initiative. Joint facilities at TBIT was a central core of that.

Quoting aklrno (Reply 10):
Could LAWA force them out of their own building if they didn't want to go?

Ultimately if a carrier needs to be moved they will be. Look at how Frontier was bounced between T3 to T6 and soon back to T3.

However at the end of the day, I strongly suspect any NZ move will be made based on its own desire. There is no particular reason why LAWA would need NZ to vacate T-2.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 862 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 16856 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 1):
The OneSmart thing would be a good idea if there aren't similar cards already around. We don't know who is bearing most of the cost in developing this, it could be NZ or Bank of New Zealand or some other parties. If NZ isn't bearing the development costs, then there is little harm in doing it.

I'm going to jump at the chance not to be the cynical one here for once - I absolutely love the idea of the OneSmart card. It's going to totally revolutionise the way I use money when travelling overseas. If there are similar options around already, I must confess to being completely unaware of them. And of course only OneSmart gives you the ability to "top up" airpoints.

What's the downside??


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 16834 times:

Quoting gasman (Reply 12):
What's the downside??

The downside is for elites wanting to buy upgrades.

I may whinge about Air New Zealand, but like every other Gold Elite, two things keep my loyalty no matter what Air NZ does. My two annual complimentary long-haul upgrades, and the ability as a GE to use Airpoints to Confirm Upgrades at any time from 355 days out if R inventory remains. All Gold Elites value these upgrades more than anything else. Probably more than they value their spouses or at least their pets and children!

Now, you may say that this makes me a freeloader, but I disagree. Under the Airpoints system, Confirmed upgrades require you to buy the highest economy or Premium Economy fare buckets, which are by no means cheap. A U Class Premium Economy return ticket to London costs $7,100 currently, plus NZ Airpoints 4,600 for a Confirmed Upgrade into Business Premier - so the airline effectively gets NZ$11,700 per passenger, part cash, part diminished Airpoints liability The cheapest published Premium Economy fare is currently $6200 plus NZ Airpoints 1920 for Standby Upgrades, which makes for revenue of NZ$8120 if all 4 upgrades clear on a return ticket, which again is highly unlikely to represent a financial loss to the airline.

I'll say that again. A Premium Economy AKL-LHR with Confirmed Upgrades earns Air NZ $11,700, and the Standby Upgrades equivalent - which only uses unsold inventory - earns $8120.

At present, as a Gold Elite, I can upgrade any long-haul fare from Premium Economy to Business Premier from 355 days out if there is R inventory. This requires large amounts of Airpoints, and through both flying and credit cards there are probably fewer than 500 Gold Elites and Golds who accumulate more than 2000 Airpoints Dollars per year, so supply matches demand fairly well.

But that same R inventory is open to all elites and Koru Club members for flight awards from the same 355 days out, at hugely discounted rates, e.g. Business Premier is NZ Airpoints 6380 return to London, when the lead-in fare for the same seat is NZD11,500. But not too many Airpoints members have 12760 Airpoints lying around for a pair of tickets to London - it would take most people around 12 years Gold flying to accumulate them. So the award-seekers and upgrade-seekers don't get in one another's way.

But from now on, smart Airpoints members will simply buy the number of Airpoints they need through One Smart, and redeem them 355 days out for the available R class inventory.

That annoys me as an elite, because there will be no upgrade inventory left for me. But it also means that the 4 R inventory seats on an AKL-LHR return flight will only "earn" NZ$25,520 in revenue, when as Standby Upgrades they would have earned $32,500 and if used for Confirmed Upgrades they would have earned $45,000. It's rank bad business.

The people who sold the "Earn to Fly" idea to Fyfe and his chums doubtless said "these seats are award inventory anyway, it won't cost you any money". But as I have shown, it will cost around $10,000 per flight in lost revenue.

And then there will be two problems for passengers. Those of us wanting upgrades won't get them unless we request them as soon as business opens 355 days out, but that's improbable too as the itinerary has to be paid and ticketed before it can be upgraded.

And there are going to be some distraught people who spend NZ$13,000 buying Airpoints on their One Smart card for a special trip, only to find that there is no inventory.

One Smart basically changes the whole complexion of Airpoints, because it's so easy to buy Airpoints - and awards - for a fraction of the cost of a Business Premier ticket.

[Edited 2011-12-07 01:35:19]

User currently offlinexiaotung From New Zealand, joined Jan 2006, 840 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 16810 times:

Quoting gasman (Reply 12):
I'm going to jump at the chance not to be the cynical one here for once - I absolutely love the idea of the OneSmart card. It's going to totally revolutionise the way I use money when travelling overseas. If there are similar options around already, I must confess to being completely unaware of them. And of course only OneSmart gives you the ability to "top up" airpoints.

This type of card as a banking product is nothing new. ANZ has a similar Travel card in foreign currencies. Most major banks in Australia offer that too. NZ simply combined this card with their Airpoints card. Calling it revolution is really an overstatement. It's just another way of theirs to take your money. You used to pay a foreign exchange commission overseas and now you pay BNZ a commission when you load your onesmart card. BNZ and NZ share some revenue from the card. Why do you think you can earn more Airpoints overseas than in New Zealand when you spend on the card?

[Edited 2011-12-07 01:46:09]

User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2999 posts, RR: 27
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 16758 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 8):

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 2):

I hear NZ is talking about terminal move at LAX come 2013.

That would be disappointing.

The LAX lounge is the nicest in the network by far

  

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 7):
all the international such as VS/AF/KL/NZ/TA flights will migrate to TBIT.
Quoting xiaotung (Reply 6):
This is part of the *A Move Under One Roof project I believe.

Except that NZ would be sharing TBIT with oneworld and skyteam competition, while most *A flights - UA and AC - would be elsewhere. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2999 posts, RR: 27
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 16752 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 11):
However at the end of the day, I strongly suspect any NZ move will be made based on its own desire. There is no particular reason why LAWA would need NZ to vacate T-2.

Although if CBP vacated T-2, I guess NZ would have little choice.



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlinenascarnut From New Zealand, joined Oct 2008, 287 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 16656 times:

Air NZ's 4th domestic Airbus ZK-OJS to enter service a month earlier than planned due to Christmas loads.
ZK-OJS will enter service on Dec 23rd to add additional capacity on the AKL-CHC-AKL services

Once the 5th 77W is delivered in Januray ZK-OKQ, NZ will not receive any new Jet aircraft for 18 months.
The next new delivery with be the ATR72 for Mount Cook in December 2012.

The last JetConnect 737-400 is ready to leave NZ. ZK-JTQ has had all Qantas markings removed and will soon leave NZ shores.

[Edited 2011-12-07 11:15:03]

User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4830 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 16604 times:

Quoting nascarnut (Reply 17):
Air NZ's 4th domestic Airbus ZK-OJS to enter service a month earlier than planned due to Christmas loads.
ZK-OJS will enter service on Dec 23rd to add additional capacity on the AKL-CHC-AKL services

I'm still trying to figure out why the new A320s are going to domestic rather than international with the longer sectors?



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1761 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16586 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 18):
I'm still trying to figure out why the new A320s are going to domestic rather than international with the longer sectors?

If I remember correctly, the new ones with sharklets are going to international, and the current non-sharkleted ones will go to domestic.


User currently offlineBlackLabel From New Zealand, joined Jan 2008, 183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16566 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 8):
For me, LAX has the airline's flagship lounge, and I'd hate not to see their French lounge manager again, as he is a

I'm on the edge of my seat here. He's a.. ?

Thierry is indeed an asset -- and the lounge is great.

Quoting aklrno (Reply 10):
Also, for passengers transferring to their Star alliance partner United it is easier to walk from T-6//7/8 to T2 than it is to walk from T6/7/8 to TBIT.

How do you figure? TBIT to T678 is a shorter walk than T2 to T678, unless you cut through the parking structures which the average passenger does not do.

Quoting gasman (Reply 12):
I absolutely love the idea of the OneSmart card. It's going to totally revolutionise the way I use money when travelling overseas. If there are similar options around already, I must confess to being completely unaware of them. And of course only OneSmart gives you the ability to "top up" airpoints.

ANZ TravelCard and Kiwibank Loaded For Travel are basically the same thing and have been around for a while. OneSmart is nothing special, misleading, and expensive.

Admittedly I would never use any of those types of cards for travel so I am not their target market, but there are significant issues to the frequent (loyal?) NZ passenger that Koruman outlines with the OneSmart offering that disappoint me... and I really don't see why NZ should be getting into the banking game. It's non-core.


User currently offlineaotearoa From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 16563 times:

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 18):
I'm still trying to figure out why the new A320s are going to domestic rather than international with the longer sectors?
Quoting cchan (Reply 19):
If I remember correctly, the new ones with sharklets are going to international, and the current non-sharkleted ones will go to domestic.



My understanding is that the wingletted A320s due in mid 2013 will be going into the domestic network. While the a/c would return better fuel economy on the longer cruise segments of the regional network, the cost of reconfiguring the current regional A320 fleet to the new domestic configuration would far out weigh the fuel benefit. The cabin would need a huge overhaul, galleys, toilets, interior sidewalls and ceilings, plus all the GSM aboard equipment.

In any case, the regional A320 fleet leases must be due to expire sometime around 2015, so the NEO option must look like good, especailly for the A321, which could fill the gap between the A320 and B789 when all the 767s finally depart.


User currently offlinenascarnut From New Zealand, joined Oct 2008, 287 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 16538 times:

The current group of A320 being delivered do not have the required equipemnt to operate across the Tasman or up to the Pacific Islands. The are purely Domestic aircraft. We the delivery of the next Airbus in 18 months, this one will be equipped with the sharklets and used on the Intl services. The Intl Airbus's will then be converted to Domestic and replace the remaining 737's on a 1 for 1 basis. The A320 deliveries have been timed to coincide with the expiration of the 737 leases.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25370 posts, RR: 49
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 16509 times:

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 15):
Except that NZ would be sharing TBIT with oneworld and skyteam competition, while most *A flights - UA and AC - would be elsewhere. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

UA no matter what will be somewhere else. AC is not moving as they still earn revenues from the LAX-Two Corporation partnership.

But TBIT is becoming a nice cluster for long-haul foreign Star carriers at LAX,

ANA
Asiana
Lufthansa
Singapore
Swiss
Thai
Turkish

Getting more partners and flight activity utilizing the shared TBIT facilities helps reduce the cost for everyone involved.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6430 posts, RR: 38
Reply 24, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 16510 times:

Quoting nascarnut (Reply 17):
Air NZ's 4th domestic Airbus ZK-OJS to enter service a month earlier than planned due to Christmas loads.
ZK-OJS will enter service on Dec 23rd to add additional capacity on the AKL-CHC-AKL services

Any idea of the delivery date?



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
25 aklrno : I guess I am just an above average customer. I don't go through the parking lots. I use the sidewalk next to the Encounter. Even if it isn't shorter
26 aerokiwi : The link to the investor presentation in the last thread identified expanding non-core revenue streams as desirable and a priority in the year ahead.
27 NZ107 : You start to wonder whether the 789s will utilise the rainbow coloured mood lighting currently seen in the NH 788s... I'd say probably and Richard Si
28 BlackLabel : Driving ancillary revenue was a goal; and (as a shareholder) I'm okay with that in the most part when it is targeted in core-related activities, e.g.
29 Post contains links ZKOJH : Dunedin airport evacuated after threat to plane Dunedin airport had to be evacuated on Wednesday night after a threat to a plane from Wellington was r
30 agent99nzboi : Has it been confirmed that Mount Cook will be operating the ATR 72-600, or just assumption? ...don't forget the eerie music to ease the mood... At le
31 aerorobnz : Just an assumption. This has not been decided officially (nor unofficially to my knowledge either) It brings it inline with the international product
32 ZKOJH : an 18 month gap between any new aircraft that's a long gap?? but means 787's A320's and ATR 72's all at once. be a busy time but watch the market fill
33 aerorobnz : JTQ will be scrapped for parts I believe. Unlikely to leave NZ shores at all.
34 Post contains links A330NZ : http://www.christchurchairport.co.nz...ort-celebrate-25-year-anniversary/ Singapore Airlines celebrates 25 years of flying into Christchurch by perman
35 alangirvan : Today we had a report in the ODT that Eagle will be reducing their services into Wanaka. They are finding that they are not carrying as many passenger
36 Post contains links ZKOJH : ''Pilot to pay Air NZ for first class hotel dispute'' An Air New Zealand pilot has to pay the airline $1500 in a dispute over whether it put him up in
37 aklrno : I have some sympathy for the pilot. That hotel is truly in need of some major upgrades. Nice location and grounds though. Lots of great restaurants wi
38 LAXintl : Amazing NZ is still at that hotel. Normally airlines switch hotels every few years. I recall as far back as they 1980s NZ staying there.
39 A330NZ : In good traffic, it rarely takes less than 5 hours to complete the journey by road. This is longer in winter due to weather and traffic to the ski fi
40 Zkpilot : That's the problem though... If a hotel doesn't do proper renovations then it becomes dated over the years do what was 5/4* becomes 3*
41 nzrich : They have not been there the whole time . The hotels in LAX do seem to change on a more regular basis than other cities around the world for NZ .
42 Unclekoru : There had been grumblings about Wanaka for a while. I tend to agree with you, they're up against ZQN if you're going to AKL or the car if you're from
43 alangirvan : It could be various things - do people find Beech1900Ds less attractive than slightly bigger planes? If there were 30 seater planes around. It is not
44 Unclekoru : Quite possible, the likes of the B1900, Metro and Jetstream are not particularly popular with passengers. Not sure what the cancellation rate is like
45 ZKOJH : I flew on a beech 1900 a few years ago from AKL to ROT and that's was a really fantastic flight , the smallest plane I had ever been on and it only ha
46 NZ107 : People from WKA (and even IVC/Southland) often drive to ZQN to take flights to say AKL. 1-2 hrs driving isn't really that much, especially if you can
47 Post contains links PA515 : They will be ATR72-600's according to page 32: www.airnewzealand.co.nz/assets/PDFs/...11-investor-day-presentations2.pdf PA515
48 Post contains images kiwiandrew : I don't think the question was about the model, I think the question was about whether it would be Mount Cook as the operator, and although I suspect
49 kiwinlondon : Hi Everyone, This is my first post and I am an avid airliner fan. Going back to previous threads re NZ possibly ceasing LHR operations. This would be
50 Post contains links ZKOJH : more profit warning from NZ ! not a good year, ''Air New Zealand talks down earnings '' Air New Zealand's financial boost in the lead-up to the Rugby
51 koruman : "Air New Zealand does not provide profit figures by route, but Deutsche Bank aviation analyst Geoff Zame said fares to London suggest it was losing mo
52 777ER : Just read an interesting e-mail from NZ. Airpoints earning is again changing! All NZ Smart Saver fares will earn Airpoints Dollars™. That's more tha
53 cchan : Well that is a sensible thing to do, but 5 points isn't much for a spending of around $300 for AKL-RAR for example.
54 ZK-NBT : So when will NZ announce the results of their long haul review? And did I hear that they were looking to start a new route or routes before the 787s a
55 gasman : It is, isn't it..... but is it really anything special as lounges go? I've been in it a few times when it's been cramped beyond capacity; the food is
56 Unclekoru : Agree. SYD is excellent, MEL is good too. Does anyone actually use the pool table? WLG domestic is my favorite though. Great views. We hardly bother
57 ZK-NBT : Interestingly at this stage from March 2012 NZ39 HKG-LHR shows as departing HKG at 1000 rather than 0830. Trying to capture more connecting traffic?!
58 cchan : BA and CX have HKG-LHR flights that departs HKG before midnight, and if the estimated arrival time at LHR would be too early, they sometimes delay th
59 Post contains images gasman : What, you don't like a basement cupboard that serves up cold pizza? Agreed - although it some ways it seems churlish to complain about a premium loun
60 anstar : I would think they will drop LHR-HKG in favour of a VS codeshare - with VS using the slots to start a 2nd HKG.
61 Post contains images kiwiandrew : Does the air services agreement between New Zealand and Hong Kong permit NZ to codeshare on the VS operated HKG-LHR flights? I thought I read somewhe
62 cchan : For many years, NZ has been marketing the VS flights between HKG and LHR as a connection to AKL-HKG flights though not under the NZ code. It wouldn't
63 aerokiwi : I think this could very well be the solution. And why not? Virgin offers excellent service and touches NZ's destinations around the Pacific Rim. But
64 aerorobnz : It isn't so much them being indecisive, more that they bring in something that is so unpopular they receive a number of complaints about it and they
65 alangirvan : AirNZ is in a similar situation to Qantas - howls of protest when Qantas gave up two daily flights to London - through HKG and BKK. In some ways it ma
66 aerorobnz : Further to the thread on EDTO 330 option now available from Boeing for 77W/77L, and 77E in the next few months, the boeing press release stated that N
67 ZKOJH : R.E NZ 39 Change, a bit better for connection traffice from the likes of PEK, I know i've done it in the past and it involves a night in a hotel at HK
68 ZKOJH : with all this reading about the LHR flights being axed to save money, why the heck don't they just re-locate to MAN? A simple plan, yea understand tha
69 aerokiwi : And I'm not surprised. Will they backtrack on other changes to Airpoints? I shouldn't be too negative and fully admit I'm armchair-CEOing here (aren'
70 cchan : If they win, it will very likely be a chartered NZ flight.
71 Post contains links ZKOJH : things are heating up already for a shaky Xmas for all... Jobs at risk in Air NZ long-haul review Air New Zealand is understood to be considering axin
72 aerorobnz : I reckon I have several ways of saving money off the top of my head from my every day dealings. However I'm not convinced the right people are doing
73 ZKOJH : Why don't they listern to the staff or the team leaders, some people could have some good idea's right?? but the words ''Hundreds'' of jobs kinda hint
74 sunrisevalley : Do you know the city pairs? It has to have been a proving flight since only LAX- RAR is greater than 180-min. and the diversion is minimal according
75 cchan : Not surprised if they don't listen to their customers.
76 koruman : Buy Virgin Australia, already! How hard is it for Mr Fyfe to realise that this would solve both his short-haul and long-haul woes. Trouble is, I actu
77 cchan : How would buying Virgin Australia solve NZ's long-haul woes when the strength of Virgin Australia is in the short haul or domestic Australian market?
78 gemuser : He can't, 50% foreign ownership limit, unless you strip out all international flying a la Ansett. Gemuser
79 koruman : I think they should look at very similar ownership arrangements to what they had at Ansett. Own all of Virgin Australia domestic and 49% of internatio
80 kiwiandrew : They would need a willing vendor, in AN's case that wasn't too difficult since the airline was a basket case and the other shareholder couldn't wait
81 gasman : Quite right, it is spin. If the situation is so dire that it dictates that LHR (for arguments sake) must be dropped, you generally don't send out war
82 cchan : Everything I guess. In addition to job cuts and 3-5-3 777W, increase in fares, lower Airpoints earning rates, reduced frequency comes to mind. This l
83 NZ1 : Flight was flown LAX to AKL. Our Chief Pilot Dave Morgan flew it. Staff Update ame out today with it in, so no link yet sorry. NZ1
84 sunrisevalley : I missed the headline on this one. Can you find out about how many nm's were saved using the 240-min EDTO routing? Also, what extra does NZ buy when
85 anstar : Add the cost of another station and one that is already well served by EK etc etc
86 BlackLabel : As a shareholder I'm kind of appalled by the leak. Makes me wonder if they're doing this to try and show the Government they need to continue to be a
87 aerorobnz : It pretty much means all the bells and whistles from the 77W Avionics option list I think.
88 LAXintl : Looking at the Air NZ financial presentation and listening to the rumblings, its seems to me Air NZ will shrink its foot print and retrench its networ
89 koruman : I think so too, and it is commercial suicide, because the yields on those "Pacific basin" routes other than North America are catastrophic. NZ is a p
90 gemuser : What's in for SRB and the Virgin Group? With a 25% share holding and half the permitted foreign share holding his cooperation will be necessary and a
91 mariner : I agree with that, although there may be one or two long-haul routes (outside of Asia) that are viable. But when the price of oil is affecting the bi
92 koruman : Amen to that. Unfortunately, it is becoming clearer by the week what the future for Air New Zealand's frequent flyers is, as follows: 1) Derisory poi
93 Zkpilot : Agreed, VA could be sending some of its pax to LHR via LAX with the LAX-LHR leg operated by NZ.
94 koruman : More so than that, why accept a situation where Virgin Australia sends its travellers to the UK and Europe via Singapore and Abu Dhabi, and pays Etih
95 Post contains links ZKOJH : From NZ, another update, found it on the facebook page. ''Challenges'' Air New Zealand has been very clear to staff, shareholders and the market over
96 kiwiandrew : With only a minority stake I am not sure that NZ is in a position to dictate terms. Furthermore, I believe that their current agreement with DJ is fo
97 mariner : Sorry, I'm the wrong person to address that to. I have very little interest in FF programs. I think the airlines made a rod for their own backs with
98 sunrisevalley : Does this mean they will retrofit any of their 77W fleet that are not to this standard?
99 sunrisevalley : So if I understand correctly, the NZ 772E fleet is now at EDTO 240 standard.
100 aerorobnz : My hunch is that NZ have the specification they require for 330, and are maintaining to that level already on the existing 4, so that Boeing only had
101 sunrisevalley : so everything is starting to fall into place to meet the EDTO 330 standard for the type. I wonder what mods are needed to meet Boeing's standard ?
102 Zkpilot : I was under the impression that GE powered birds (ie 77W, 77L) had the new standard and that RR powered would be following shortly but not yet... so
103 aerorobnz : I think if I understand correctly they will still have to operate for a full year on EDTO 240 to qualify for 330 based on CAA guidelines. So I think
104 NZ2 : Yep second all that! AKL is a bit embarrassing really
105 sunrisevalley : I think you are right.
106 nascarnut : Air NZ to move to Terminal 1 South at Narita to link up with other Star Alliance carriers on March 25th. Air NZ and ANA will also codeshare on the AKL
107 Post contains links kiwiandrew : Wow, that's great news... do you have a link? ooops, never mind, found one http://www.flightcentric.com/FC/FCNe...r-NZ-ANA-strengthen-ties-3598.aspx
108 gytr31 : How is this likely to affect the current code share agreement with JAL? or is this going to cease with the new agreement with ANA?
109 dlnz : The JL agreement will cease to exist from March 2012. The final chapter in a sad demise for JL in the NZL market, from online service, to hard-block c
110 aerorobnz : I'm glad that NH is now getting the codeshare. It should open up some pretty good options for many onward locations now..
111 nascarnut : 4th domestic Airbus ZK-OJS due into AKL on 17th @ 2210. Flt6395 DEN-HNL-APW-AKL Scheduled to enter service 23rd Dec
112 sunrisevalley : about 50-min out of HNL from LAX at this time according to FlightAware
113 Post contains links 777ER : The All Blacks B77W is out of the paint shop and on display http://kpae.blogspot.com/2011/12/black-jet.html VERY NICE!!!
114 aerokiwi : Excellent news. Agreed. NZ and Star got lucky that their rep airline in Japan is clearly going to be the dominant carrier in the coming years. Hopefu
115 nascarnut : The first two Black Beech 1900D's should also be flying around the time this 77W is delivered.
116 cchan : I would think a JL partnership is not a bad idea for customers. These days, one is too easily locked into carriers within one alliance. A JL partners
117 aerokiwi : Yeah but JL is definitely an airline on the wane at the moment and the connectivity between NZ and JL was pretty limited, from my experience. Plus th
118 alangirvan : NH and AirNZ is the Star partnership, JAL and Qantas or Jetstar is the OneWorld partnership. So, if JAL wants to stay in the NZ market, the flying may
119 NZ2 : Just been advised that the last return leg of our UK trip, SFO to AKL has been down graded from 744 to 77E which is a bummer, we are in PE and had bee
120 gasman : Mate - no "risk" here - if the seat doesn't sell (unlikely) someone will fill it as an upgrade. Y+ on the 77E was the first of a few quite dopey conf
121 ZKOJH : grounding the last 2 744's ?? to save money next year. which would mean a a few changes in the schedules. 2012 going be a tough year....for the whole
122 Post contains images aerorobnz : This aircraft positioned through AKL today from HKG. I think it is a cracking livery
123 ZK-NBT : It looks like between April and June atleast that some of the Tuesday and Thursday flights ex will use 77Es with 744s on the weekends. There is some
124 aerorobnz : Their 744s are going to be gone by feb, A343s are replacing them on the European routes like MAD currently. I suspect they really didn't have enough
125 koruman : I'm sure I saw an NZ 763 at Gold Coast Airport today from the highway behind. School holiday upguage? Diversion? Was the pointy end sold as Business C
126 ZK-NBT : It seems there was an NZ 763 in today KMAN. ZK-NCJ. No idea why, you are probably right holiday demand. Happens every now and again.
127 aerorobnz : Yes it was. I think it was a straight aircraft upgauge for the holidays, although there have been maintenance oriented aircraft swaps today as well.
128 NZ107 : Looks stunning. I'd love to see that alongside a TN A343 at AKL.
129 haggis73 : Due to leave tonight (Wed 21/12) 2100 for EZE. Correction: Looks like now due to leave 1100 Thurs 22/12 AR1054[Edited 2011-12-20 15:52:54]
130 dlnz : This just in from Travel Today: Emirates Doubles A380 Sevices ex New Zealand Emirates said today it will double A380 services to/from New Zealand from
131 NZ107 : Yep thanks; got a glimpse of it today from the skydeck. Even half the plane looks great so I wonder what the thing in the air will look like! Though
132 zkncj : Why stop at 2 extra gates? would be much better off and add 6 gates to complete the pier off. It would then allow pier A to go under much need rebuil
133 Post contains images IndianicWorld : Lets hope they don't. We all know how the last try at such a concept worked
134 aerorobnz : Precisely. AKL as an airport is an outdated dump. They should be extending Pier B out to Layover 19 (where AR 343 is) on both sides (rather than just
135 LondonCity : Moreover, if you check the EK schedules from LHR you will see that EK will be offering A380 flights all the way through between London and Auckland,
136 Post contains links 777ER : Since the original post about NZ offering passengers upgrades weeks in advance by means of auctioning spare seats seems to have gone, here is the link
137 deconz : They say in promotional emails to Airpoints members that FF upgrade requests will be processed first but I can see the lure of the almighty $ taking
138 dlnz : Equally however, the lure of reducing the liability of accrued airpoints dollars will motivate NZ to place high priority on points upgrades. Indeed m
139 deconz : Yes I agree balance sheet considerations are important. However, if a non-status pax offers say $ 1k CASH for a long haul upgrade the balance sheet w
140 dlnz : Without doubt, and on that note I agree with previous comments that OneUp has the potential to further devalue the Airpoints programme for loyal cust
141 Post contains links NZ107 : Air NZ to provide Australia to Norfolk Island Flights Interesting.. But good on Air NZ.
142 xiaotung : Is this treated as a domestic flight?
143 ZKOJH : didn't see that one coming?! they seem to be making some nice moves at SYD, is this part of the 2 new routes that were ment to be launched by the end
144 koruman : I'd actually go and check out Norfolk Island from Brisbane, but the points earning is so derisory that I can't see why I would. Similarly, the combina
145 mariner : You only travel for points? You don't travel because you'd like to see Norfolk Island, or, if you seen it before, go there again? I cant imagine how
146 gemuser : It's been a very loooong time since I last flew to Norfolk Is, so long ago that it was in a DC4! At that time it was classified as a "flight to an ex
147 zkncj : SYD-PPT would be a smart move, TN failed at with a343s. Although a 763 would be serve that route nicely.
148 QF175 : Still require a passport or alternatively a document of identity as far as I am aware. That was the case when I was there in the old days of Norfolk
149 koruman : It certainly infl;uences my choices heavily. I could have gone to Norfolk Island any number of times from BNE on Norfolk Jet, Qantas or Our Airline,
150 xiaotung : A very good point. "Earn To Fly" defeats the purpose of a loyalty program. Many people actually would pay more to get some points. No need to do that
151 mariner : Each to their own. I prefer to travel to the places I want to go. mariner
152 cchan : Same here. If one has money to burn, frequent flyer points is the last thing to think about. Almost every benefit an airline offers can be bought wit
153 Kaiarahi : Me too. But if I can do it using *A and accumulate status, it makes the next flight more enjoyable.
154 mariner : Oh, sure. Except I don't limit myself to an alliance - or even an airline. I like to try as many airlines as I can, I even flew (old) Iraqi Airways o
155 koruman : In my head, I believe that I should get back around 10-15% of the value of a Business Class ticket in frequent flyer benefits and around 10% of the va
156 mariner : I've asked you before - if you're so unhappy, why do you continue to fly Air NZ? If you are elite at another airline - even two - then go with them.
157 Dan23 : Theres been reports of another earthquake in Christchurch? Multiple QF, NZ and JQ aircraft enroute to Christchurch have diverted to Wellington.
158 kiwiandrew : This is exactly why airlines must rue the day that AA first opened the can of worms of loyalty programmes. Everyone has different beliefs of what exa
159 Post contains links zkncj : Yip - see here http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6184...Large-earthquake-hits-Christchurch
160 xiaotung : We are not asking Airpoints to be the most generous program but as it stands it's the one of the worst. Talk about FFP's they should be competitive a
161 kiwiandrew : I know a couple of people who are top level frequent flyers and the most important thing to them is not the points, they never have enough free time
162 NZ107 : There's going to be 3 EK 77Ws and the A380 in AKL - EK418 diverted to AKL. Other flights diverted to WLG and at least one to DUD I believe.
163 ZKSUJ : Had a 733 come into PMR as well
164 xiaotung : But I have heard BD's most profitable part is their FFP and if you look QF, FFP is one of their big profit centres as well.
165 anstar : Virgin Atlantic are doing this on a few routes as a trial too
166 MillwallSean : Wow heaps of text. I disagree. I know the types of FF that NZ would kill for. Gold elites, People travelling high classes continental on a monthly ba
167 777ER : While looking at fares for WLG-MEL I've noticed the fares are still higher then AKL and CHC. When the NZ and DJ alliance was approved, both airlines p
168 gasman : I completely agree. While I wouldn't class myself as a 'top level frequent flyer', I am an NZ *G member and generally spend about $15,000 per year of
169 aerorobnz : I'm with you on this. Frequent flyer status becomes like an addiction if you let it. I could have been a *G several times over the years if I had stu
170 xiaotung : That probably would never work. Airlines earn a lot of money and cashflow from FFP's when banks pay them for customers using their credit cards. QF f
171 NZ2 : Me too, the status is the most important thing in order to benefit from the lounge and seating privilages. The balance is of interest but not so crit
172 Zkpilot : That said, QF FFP dumps a lot of its costs on QF whilst it doesn't distribute the revenue to QF (long haul in particular) as it should... this is one
173 koruman : I don't think that it is relevant (to Mariner's discussion with me) whether or not Frequent Flyer program's are a good corporate investment - although
174 mariner : In the US Frequent Flier Programs can be extremely valuable to the airline, but that has less to do with people flying - and more to do with third pa
175 Post contains images gasman : Why does this bug you? The airline industry as a whole is littered with inconsistencies in terms of price "paid" versus product delivered. There can
176 mariner : Why skyte about it, why go on about it? I don't care what anyone pays - or doesn't - why would anyone think it is interesting? The most interesting p
177 zkncj : Anyone know why NZ is always parking the A320s at AKL domestic at gates with stairs? This afternoon there was 3x NZ A320s useing stairs Also who gets
178 aerorobnz : It allows for quicker turnarounds to board/disembark from front and back. front half boards on airbridge back half by airstairs.
179 zkncj : I mean the gates towards Jetstar, where they are using a single set of stairs.
180 aerokiwi : Yeah this comes up a lot and appears to be scuttlebutt fuelled by QF employees anti the existing management team. Reminiscent of the great "NZ asset-
181 777ER : A party I was travelling with late last month had an interesting experience with an NZ A320 that was going to park at a stairs gate. An elderly perso
182 aerorobnz : Because AIAL haven't got all gates as A320 capable gates (especially with more than one one the ground). It is in progress I believe to have all bar
183 nascarnut : The ex Pacific Blue gate 24 is a common user gate. Both NZ and JQ use it during the day. NZ use Gate 24 every night to overnight either a 737 or A320
184 zkncj : If AIAL kicked out the JQ Lounge, would they be able to make the air-side into one space? Also would the JQ lounge space allow gate 28 to have an air
185 kiwiandrew : I knew JQ were an LCC but I had no idea they squeezed 850 people into an A320
186 Post contains links ZKOJH : ''Chinese visitors boost Auckland Airport users'' More overseas visitors flooded through the gateways at Auckland International Airport but fewer of t
187 zkncj : Sorry I mean when NZ has 5x A320s in, thats 5x 171.
188 cchan : It is tight even without the 320. I think the main problem is that the gates are too close together. Not a well designed terminal at all.
189 NZ107 : We're still waiting for the resumption of the 2nd runway to be built.. And subsequently a whole new domestic terminal. They really do need it.
190 kiwiandrew : I heard through the grapevine ( sorry, I know that is annoying, but I can't identify my source so you are quite welcome to ignore this post if you do
191 zkncj : Ive though for a while, why doesn't AIAL build a basic LCC style domestic terminal in between Domesitc & International? Surely something like OOL
192 Zkpilot : Yes exactly... Now is the perfect time to build it when there is plenty of excess capacity in the construction industry (even with the chch efforts).
193 Post contains images kiwiandrew : Haven't we already got a basic LCC style domestic terminal? It always looks like that to me
194 zkncj : I look at it as a "Cargo Shed" that some how got air-bridges attached to it for self loading cargo!
195 Post contains images NZ107 : Funnily enough, the JQ side of the building actually looks like a terminal from the outside in comparison to the NZ side
196 777ER : This morning I booked a WLG - MEL on QF (full service sale fare was cheaper then NZs 'seat' service). The service being offered is a lunch meal. Anyon
197 Zkpilot : Its a proper hot meal tray. complimentary drinks (beer, wine, spirits, softdrinks etc). Tea and Coffee after.
198 777ER : Thanks. Just a pity QF doesn't have a PM flight coming back on the day I was wanting. Booked the return with NZ (seat fare) and the price quoted (had
199 TravellerPlus : The meal service is a salad, a choice of hot meal (normally meat or vegetarian pasta), cheese & crackers, a real glass for your cold drink, follo
200 777ER : Looks like its going to be a good treat for a sale fare. Guess the level of service depends on the type of crew, ie Jetconnect crew v Qantas mainline
201 alangirvan : Adding a bit to the Qantas discussion, I have noticed on some other Trans Tasman flights the Qantas lead in fare is very similar to the AirNZ seat onl
202 Post contains images sunrisevalley : The posting of some of the 788 performance data on Boeings ACAP site and the adding of the 788 to the "free" list on Piano X makes it possible to take
203 hornetfan : Having recently flown back from Sydney on QF on a 737-800 I can quite easily say it was the most unpleasant flight I have ever been on in almost 40 y
204 Post contains images koruman : If Air NZ's managers had been smart enough to keep the 788 order rather than buy the slightly more efficient (but less freight-capable) 77E known as
205 zkncj : Anyone know about the QF A380 that diverted to AKL yesterday?
206 aerorobnz : QF107 SYD-LAX diverted last night with a medical emergency, refueled and was gone just over an hour later. however it was VH-OJM a 744.
207 Post contains links NZ1 : Please continue discussion here: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 108 (by NZ1 Dec 31 2011 in Civil Aviation) NZ1 Forum Moderator
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