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Is IND About To Emerge From A Long Slump?  
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3641 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8231 times:

For a while, it seemed that in spite of the loss of TZ, nothing could go wrong at IND.

The NW focus city was in full swing, FL and other LCCs were adding service, there were rumors of B6 entering IND, and a new terminal was being built to replace the overcrowded 1960s jet-age building. To top it all off, BAA Indianapolis (which ran IND back then) said that IND was underserved and had nowhere to go but up.

Then, a series of events happened. Here they are, in chronological order from oldest to newest:
- BAA ended their contract to manage IND a year early, forcing the Indianapolis Airport Authority (IAA) to take control early.
- DL and NW merged while gutting the IND focus city to only hubs and select spokes. (Some say that DL did this to protect the CVG hub, but that's a different story.)
- Adding insult to injury, DL cut fares from CVG as the PMNW IND focus city was being dismantled. With the fare playing field more level, passengers from Cincinnati that chose IND for lower fares than CVG had one less reason to choose IND over CVG.
- The Great Recession of 2008, which hammered the city of Indianapolis hard, occurred. As is the case in virtually every recession, local travel demand was reduced.
- The new midfield terminal opened, but with fewer flights running through it. It also had much higher costs to the airlines than the previous facility.
- With higher costs to airlines than before, the IAA found it hard to attract new service to IND. Only one new "airline" started service at IND after the new terminal opened: Branson AirExpress (which was lured away from HUF). The XE-operated flights only lasted two months.
- IND fixed the cost problem in a way with new five-year airline lease deals, with WN and DL pledging additional new service as part of the deals. Neither airline added additional IND service following the new lease deals.
- The IAA management finally acknowledged the loss of Cincinnati-area leakage back to CVG. Billboards were placed around Cincinnati encouraging locals to "Leave CVG behIND", followed by "Leave SDF behIND" billboards in Louisville.

As of late, things are looking up again. IND has some excellent opportunities ahead:
- Following a brutal re-election campaign, Indianapolis Mayor Greg Ballard is vowing more aggressive passenger air service development at IND. When the mayor of your city (re)commits to your airport, that's always a good sign.
- The Super Bowl will be hitting Indianapolis soon. This should be IND's moment to shine and demonstrate their new terminal to the world. And there will probably be additional flights scheduled into IND to help fill up Lucas Oil Stadium. I can only see positives for IND with the Super Bowl.
- Currently, fast-growing NK doesn't serve IND. But with the WN/FL merger creating a new #1 carrier at IND, an opportunity from WN's higher-than-FL fares might open up, particularly to Florida and LAS. Will NK rise to the challenge, or will they continue to shy away from IND due to the high fees?
- The IAA continues to seek service to SFO, and if a recent route map leak by UA proves true, IND just might get it. Last time it was attempted, it was a seasonal service by NW with little feed from SFO. As an Asian and West Coast gateway for UA, it seems that the Friendly Skies is better-suited for the IND-SFO route than NW or even DL will ever be.
- Other cities could also be a good fit for IND. SAN (likely served by WN) is a natural due to the life sciences industry in both cities. MYR is offering incentives to any airline that could start IND-MYR. And there's still the elusive European hub service; though whether the DL/AF/KL, UA/LH/LX, or AA/BA/IB joint-ventures will start it remains to be seen.

One question remains: After this long slump, are brighter days ahead for IND?


I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1850 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 8000 times:



Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):
Indianapolis Mayor Greg Ballard is vowing more aggressive passenger air service development at IND.


I wouldn't expect much. Politicians always get mouthy about these sort of things, but unless the city is going to outright offer subsidies/incentives for various routes, the only thing the Mayor can really do is grow the city and the region and thus grow demand.

Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):
And there's still the elusive European hub service


Outside of LHR, I'm not sure the demographics are really there to support TATL service from Indianapolis. I think IND's only and best hope for a European service would be an AA 757 to LHR...but then again how long have people been talking on here about expansion of AA 757 service to LHR from mid-sized cities. Of course they could always just pay for it like PIT did.

Just out of curiosity though, has IND ever had scheduled non-stop passenger service to Europe?
Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):
One question remains: After this long slump, are brighter days ahead for IND?

It's tough to say really as, with DL slowly relinquishing CVG, the whole competitive landscape of the tri-state area will be changing. I think for so long, a good portion of IND's growth came from Cincinnati-area leakage which worked greatly to IND's benefit for almost 20 years I'd say, and DAY follows much the same narrative. But long-term now I think we'll be seeing CVG become much more reasonable fare-wise and O&D focused as it should be and consequently the flood of leakage that used to come from Cincinnati will slow to a trickle. So, IMHO, the days of the big 4-way battle between CMH, SDF, IND, and DAY to attract each others' pax are over I think and any growth or new service at IND will have to come from the Indianapolis area itself.

[Edited 2011-12-11 17:43:16]

User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1917 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7850 times:

I'm not quite as optimistic as you are despite the fact that I love my hometown. I think the Branson flights were a desperate move to do something, anything to show for the bright new shiny terminal.

Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):
- Currently, fast-growing NK doesn't serve IND. But with the WN/FL merger creating a new #1 carrier at IND, an opportunity from WN's higher-than-FL fares might open up, particularly to Florida and LAS. Will NK rise to the challenge, or will they continue to shy away from IND due to the high fees?
Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):
Other cities could also be a good fit for IND. SAN (likely served by WN) is a natural due to the life sciences industry in both cities. MYR is offering incentives to any airline that could start IND-MYR.

I used to think there is no way IND is on NK's radar... but after the incentives MYR is offering I think IND is being discussed at NK headquarters. I can see NK doing a MYR-IND-RSW-IND-MYR routing and doing decent at it despite the "high costs" of IND. FL dominates IND-RSW right now but I think the route is probably not a priority for WN and Fort Myers/ Bonita Springs really is Indy's southern most suburb.  
Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):
The IAA continues to seek service to SFO, and if a recent route map leak by UA proves true, IND just might get it. Last time it was attempted, it was a seasonal service by NW with little feed from SFO. As an Asian and West Coast gateway for UA, it seems that the Friendly Skies is better-suited for the IND-SFO route than NW or even DL will ever be.

It flopped on NW... but I think it will do great on UA simply because of the asian feed. IND has a major pharmaceutical and biotech community and I think the feed from asia along with the medical community in the bay area could easily fill at 2 319s a day.


User currently offlineboilerla From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7610 times:

Quoting LV (Reply 2):
It flopped on NW... but I think it will do great on UA simply because of the asian feed. IND has a major pharmaceutical and biotech community and I think the feed from asia along with the medical community in the bay area could easily fill at 2 319s a day.

I imagine that since the route is being specifically started by CO instead of UA, it would be a 738 or 73G. Could be wrong but not sure why they'd use CO to start the route (according to the online route map) and then use PMUA equipment. But yeah I think they could fill 1-2 73Gs a day. Since I detest being on a CRJ for 3 hours I'd like to see them upguage one of the IAH flights to a 73G as well, but...

BTW ever priced IND-IAH? I've seen it priced at over $1k many times. UA definitely wants you to just use it as a feeder; they don't want you to fly it O/D. Change it to IND-AUS and it's $300, connecting through IAH! I'd love to see them bring it back to mainline at least 1x a day, combined with a resonable fare. Same thing with IND-EWR.


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2634 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7599 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):
The IAA continues to seek service to SFO,

The T-100 shows over 350 O&D pax per day, so it would seem that it could support at least a daily flight, even on a small mainline.

Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):
- Currently, fast-growing NK doesn't serve IND. But with the WN/FL merger creating a new #1 carrier at IND, an opportunity from WN's higher-than-FL fares might open up, particularly to Florida and LAS. Will NK rise to the challenge, or will they continue to shy away from IND due to the high fees?


In addition to chasing after the rather elusive NK (who are favoring big hubs right now it seems) or the we do what we do WN/FL, how about considering the hometown RAH. They do own F9 (for how long though, who knows) and maybe there could be some enticement there? And they are a group that can be incentivetized.....

 


User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1268 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7530 times:

So is IND-SFO happening for sure?

User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4522 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7513 times:

I haven't posted here in a very long time so I hate for my first post to spoil the party but IND-SFO is a Super Bowl only flight. IND-SFO is bookable on United.com on Feb 6th, 2012. Not sure why it would appear in the route map. All I can think is that the flight appears in the timetable for that day and the route map is generated based on the timetable.


Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1917 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 7398 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 6):
IND-SFO is a Super Bowl only flight. IND-SFO is bookable on United.com on Feb 6th, 2012.

Well better to know the reality than keep hoping for a dream that won't happen. I still stand by my statement that 2 a day for feed from the asian flights would work but with SFO possibly going to slots I guess UA really doesn't want to do that.

Quoting boilerla (Reply 3):
imagine that since the route is being specifically started by CO instead of UA, it would be a 738 or 73G. Could be wrong but not sure why they'd use CO to start the route (according to the online route map) and then use PMUA equipment.

You are right. I was at work when I wrote that and couldn't remember if CO still had 73G's. I figured a 738 might be a bit to large and that's why I said 319. That's what I get for posting between clients.


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4522 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7129 times:

Quoting LV (Reply 7):
I still stand by my statement that 2 a day for feed from the asian flights would work but with SFO possibly going to slots I guess UA really doesn't want to do that.

Wouldn't the same be true for airlines with Asian flights out of LAX and SEA? With nearly a total lack of west coast service from IND it would make sense to offer the nonstop service to the west coast city with the flight timed to allow a connection to Asia.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineThreeIfByAir From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 649 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7074 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 8):
Wouldn't the same be true for airlines with Asian flights out of LAX and SEA?

The IND market is probably a bit small for AS presently, but the recent mid-con expansion to STL and now MCI will be interesting to watch. Unfortunately for potential IND service, I've been seeing some smashing deals on STL, which may indicate that AS is having trouble with yields on that route. It wouldn't surprise me if some AS loyalists are renting cars in STL and driving to IND - I've done that in EWR (to PHL) and DCA (to PHF).

If AS started SEA-IND-SEA service with the intent of capturing some Asia-bound passengers, the inbound flight would need to an afternoon departure from SEA and RON in IND or a red-eye because of the timing of the DL flights: KIX departs at 1135, NRT is at 1250, and PEK currently goes at 1755. Thus, IND-SEA would need to depart in the morning.

I just did IND-MSP-SEA on DL and noticed more than a few pax from my half-full IND-MSP E175 continuing onto SEA. This was my first visit to IND and I love the new terminal. I appreciate the rental cars being in the garage, not in some remote location (looking at you, SEA...).


User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9236 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 7026 times:

I can see Spirit coming in depending on what the combined AirTran/Southwest cuts end up being to Florida service.


it would be nice to see Sun Country at Indianapolis.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineordjoe From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5435 times:

I am though surprised it can not handle a 757 to LHR, CDG, or AMS granted it would be all IND citizens O&D. It is a bigger city and has a good corporate presence. I am surprised they are not pulling a PIT and just paying for it.

User currently offlineLV From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 1917 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5365 times:

Quoting Indy (Reply 8):
Wouldn't the same be true for airlines with Asian flights out of LAX and SEA?

But no one has a hub at LAX or SEA on the scale that UA does at SFO... particuarly for trans-pac flights.

Quoting stlgph (Reply 10):
it would be nice to see Sun Country at Indianapolis.

How is the SY expansion in LAN going? I just don't see SY doing much of anything outside of MSP.

Quoting stlgph (Reply 10):
I can see Spirit coming in depending on what the combined AirTran/Southwest cuts end up being to Florida service.

I think this is the most likely slump buster (tongue in cheek) for IND

Quoting ThreeIfByAir (Reply 9):
If AS started SEA-IND-SEA

As much as I was love that I just don't see the market recognition that AS would need in IND to make it work for a while.


User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9236 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5275 times:

Quoting LV (Reply 12):
Quoting stlgph (Reply 10):
it would be nice to see Sun Country at Indianapolis.

How is the SY expansion in LAN going? I just don't see SY doing much of anything outside of MSP.

my friends at SY headquarters say Lansing is holding its own and is serving its purpose. if routes stick around, Sun Country must be doing ok with them. Sun Country just doesn't have the resources to sit around on routes that aren't making them any money.
personally i like the airline and would like to see them grow a little - nothing huge or massive - i think staying small works well for them a bit but a handful of destinations out of a new city would be nice for them. Frontier's kind of laying its eggs in other cities - such as Omaha and Des Moines, Milwaukee, Chicago, and St. Louis are all spoken for - but i think there's a slight void in Indianapolis they could fill.

Quoting LV (Reply 12):
Quoting stlgph (Reply 10):
I can see Spirit coming in depending on what the combined AirTran/Southwest cuts end up being to Florida service.

I think this is the most likely slump buster (tongue in cheek) for IND

agreed. if they would do it .... Allegiant would do well with a handful of flights there. better than nothing.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlinemmedford From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 561 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5266 times:

Why; is Peyton finally going to get off that bench and do something?

*fill*

*fill*



ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 5999 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5224 times:

Quoting LV (Reply 7):

Well let's not get to excited. I think IND-SFO could handle 1 daily flight, but 2 is pushing it. A morning flight to connect with Asian departures would be nice, but UA/CO is running into other issue's and that's lack of gate availability during that morning push at SFO.

Look at the SFO-STL start and that it didn't connect to the morning rush. I think any traffic later in the day can be funneled via ORD/DEN.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinetan flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1897 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5188 times:

Quoting as739x (Reply 15):
Well let's not get to excited. I think IND-SFO could handle 1 daily flight, but 2 is pushing it. A morning flight to connect with Asian departures would be nice, but UA/CO is running into other issue's and that's lack of gate availability during that morning push at SFO.

Look at the SFO-STL start and that it didn't connect to the morning rush. I think any traffic later in the day can be funneled via ORD/DEN.

Agreed..how much of the daily IND-SFO traffic is on UA? Than connects to an Asian destination? Or a United Express flight at SFO? The other carriers hauling SFO bound traffic count on that as part of the mix filling the connecting flights at ORD/ DEN/ SLC/ DFW or PHX (or elsewhere) Don't think that they wouldn't put up a fight to retain those SFO customers.


Quoting point2point (Reply 4):
The T-100 shows over 350 O&D pax per day, so it would seem that it could support at least a daily flight, even on a small mainline

That's a lot of folks that the others are not going to let just walk over to UA..IMHO.


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4934 times:

Quoting ordjoe (Reply 11):
I am though surprised it can not handle a 757 to LHR, CDG, or AMS granted it would be all IND citizens O&D




Why do you think boardings would be all IND citizens, when most flights from the US to
Europe carry more European citizens than US citizens? What would make IND different?


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4522 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4884 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 17):
Why do you think boardings would be all IND citizens

I suspect ordjoe meant the flight wouldn't have feed to help fill it.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlinemogandoCI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4837 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 17):
when most flights from the US to
Europe carry more European citizens than US citizens? What would make IND different?

Because IND is nothing close to Top 10 or even Top 20 tourist destinations to visit ? You can have corporate traffic both ways, but the tourism traffic is probably outbound only.


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4761 times:

[quote=Indy,reply=18]Quoting bobnwa (Reply 17):
Why do you think boardings would be all IND citizens

I suspect ordjoe meant the flight wouldn't have feed to help fill it.


I suspect that ordjoe skipped over the fact that the flights would have feed from the Europe side at the AMS, CDG, or LHR hubs. Many on this forum seem to florget that.


User currently offlineIndy From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 4522 posts, RR: 18
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4635 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 20):

I suspect that ordjoe skipped over the fact that the flights would have feed from the Europe side at the AMS, CDG, or LHR hubs. Many on this forum seem to florget that.

I know that in my mind when I think IND-AMS I'm really thinking IND-AMS-Europe. The advantage of course being eliminating that extra connection and flying something like IND-AMS-CGN instead of IND-DTW-AMS-CGN. The real big plus is the return flight. You clear customs and go home. You don't have to recheck your bag and wait for another flight.



Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
User currently offlineatrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5686 posts, RR: 52
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4606 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Thread starter):

- IND fixed the cost problem in a way with new five-year airline lease deals, with WN and DL pledging additional new service as part of the deals. Neither airline added additional IND service following the new lease deals.

When did the Airline Lease start? SWA added new IND-DEN service (June 2008) which I would think falls within the 5 Year Lease? (New Airport officially opened Nov 2008).

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22309 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4604 times:

Quoting tan flyr (Reply 16):
Agreed..how much of the daily IND-SFO traffic is on UA?

It's pretty fragmented today. UA gets about 40 percent of the traffic in STL with a nonstop and could probably get a similar share in IND.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3641 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4504 times:

Quoting atrude777 (Reply 22):
When did the Airline Lease start? SWA added new IND-DEN service (June 2008) which I would think falls within the 5 Year Lease? (New Airport officially opened Nov 2008).

The new leases started January 1, 2011 and run for 5 years.
http://www.indianapolisairport.com/a...0IAAairlineUseAgreementRelease.pdf

Quoting stlgph (Reply 13):
if they would do it .... Allegiant would do well with a handful of flights there. better than nothing.

As stated before, IND is not Allegiant's kind of market. You'll see G4 serve HUF or LAF with scheduled service before IND.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
25 atrude777 : Ok, so it JUST started? Well, hold your horses then we got five years to go before we start getting on WN and DL for not adding flights Hahaha. When
26 Indy : I personally don't expect anything to change at IND as long as the current leadership is in place. What can you say about an airport this size where t
27 Cubsrule : Sorry, I don't see the connection. Why shouldn't the airport be happy to add air service and to add ancillary services for passengers. Many mid-sized
28 stlgph : i know this. However, Allegiant staying in smaller markets forever ... i just don't see happening. If they wanted to test the waters on a bigger mark
29 Indy : The problem is they don't seem to understand their own business. Remember when NW/DL was slashing all those routes? The leadership was unaware the cu
30 FlyPNS1 : I doubt they were unaware. There was probably little they could do as most of those IND p2p routes were big losers when oil prices rose and the econo
31 Cubsrule : There's certainly demand for IND-BKG. The problem is getting folks off of buses and on to airplanes. Why was that effort doomed to fail?
32 stlgph : the IND airport management is not incompetant -- they are working with what is coming at them. it's like the STL airport management -- had they known
33 Indy : No they were unaware. This came from a very reliable source. Their information came straight from IND brass. They absolutely did. They were confident
34 Cubsrule : Maybe, but how are LAX (long and thin), LAS (long and thin and heavily leisure), TPA (leisure) or MCO (leisure) such opportunities?
35 FlyPNS1 : And there is a reason these were dropped and it has NOTHING to do with airport management. These routes bleed red ink given fuel prices and the econo
36 gators312 : As he did when he ran JAX, John Clark is most worried about how much he can spend on himself and the executive travel budget, under the guise of expan
37 Indy : That is speculation and in part incorrect. MSY was dropped because of Katrina and never returned. PIT was dropped as part of the US dehubbing. STL fa
38 stlgph : True, however, I fly IND-LGA *a lot* and I've often flown for $175 or less roundtrip. Of course, that's apples and oranges. It's not so much IND mana
39 Indy : That has to be an error. My guess is that it includes JFK and EWR. If you look at IND numbers you won't find anything for EWR or JFK alone.
40 Indy : I wonder if someone here could explain the DL downgrade of IND-SLC from an A320 to a CRJ-900? I've been on that flight a few times recently and it was
41 FlyPNS1 : But again, how is that the airport management's fault? $400 for a flight like IND-LAS or IND-LAX is still pretty cheap. Airlines will barely break ev
42 stlgph : Hrmm...disagree. "Weaker" routes can entirely work under new operational models, a la Spirit Airlines. I suspect the Spirit model will only grow. the
43 exFWAOONW : Go back a little further when US hubbed Indy, and you might see PVD, BDL, BOS, PHL and a few others like SAN that I can't be sure about.
44 FWAERJ : I didn't know about MCO and TPA seeing huge passenger declines after G4 entered FWA/SBN-Florida. However, most SBN leakage is to ORD/MDW, not IND. If
45 stlgph : around 1992 Jets - Boston, Baltimore, Charlotte, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, Phoenix, New York LaGuardia, Washington National, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh,
46 tztristar500 : There was nothing abrupt about TZ's leaving scheduled service from IND. It took nearly a year to wind down from the short-lived build-up with C8 in 2
47 stlgph : "Indianapolis" (see the quotation marks) simply saw what they did at Midway and thought they could replicate the success, especially with ATA's growt
48 TOMMY767 : DL still has a decent presence at Indy. I wouldn't say they 'gutted' the focus city. NW wasn't very successful at mini hubbing IND. For instance, IND-
49 MaverickM11 : What assumptions was IND management using when they supported the new terminal? I just don't see how that ever made sense under the most optimistic o
50 ordjoe : Not many Europeans are going to IND for the culture or tourism. Granted I am sure it would have some traffic originating in the EU, but I can not see
51 stlgph : A few reasons - 1. Chance to expand the retail options. IND made a nice chunk of change off of retail rent. New terminal allows for expanded retail a
52 Dash8Driver16 : I used to do the Seattle IND run quite often when i was going to school in Indiana. When i started going to school in the summers NW/DL was running a
53 Indy : I know the numbers are a bit old but in 2004 there were 122,000 visitors that came to Indiana from overseas. Of those the destination of 66,000 was t
54 Cubsrule : Did the U.S. Grand Prix run in 2004?
55 Indy : Not sure when it ran, when the feud happened, how many actually flew into Indiana or anything. Given how little excitement was generated related to i
56 Cubsrule : I'm not sure either, but in years when it ran (and, hopefully, when it comes back), I'd imagine that it was/is the largest single draw for folks comi
57 Indy : The race will be back in 2012 but it will be in Texas this time. I suspect there are still some hard feelings between F1 and the IMS in Indy. I need t
58 Indy : It appears the IAA president Michael Stayton is retiring (ok lets call it what it is... resigning) after two years. The Indianapolis Star said it was
59 FWAERJ : Yes, but it's less than daily during certain parts of the year. Guess I forgot that. And I should have known better: I lived in the Indy area (Anders
60 Indy : I'd be happy if IND got a decent new domestic route. They can't even accomplish that much.
61 Coronado : with fuel at 100 dlrs /barrell, there may still be life in a moderate size hub operation for DL at CVG. Within 2 hours drive of CVG you find IND, DAY,
62 slcdeltarumd11 : I would just wonder what would cause them to get out of this slump? Nothing seems to be changing much ?
63 Indy : It is an apples & oranges comparison. CVG is being dehubbed. Their problems are unique to them and don't compare to the problems of places like I
64 FlyPNS1 : Yes and no. Ignoring flights that are driven by connections, IND already has VASTLY more service than CVG. At this point, most people in CVG would ki
65 exFWAOONW : Most of the time, you can't get a seat on the AMS-DTW flight, so you book AMS-IND to get a good price. Remember flying today is a commodity, not an e
66 FWAERJ : Surprisingly, a lot of people in the Purdue/Lafayette area take the 3+ hour trek to ORD or MDW as opposed to the 1 hour drive to IND. (LAF no longer
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