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What Happened With Norwegian Long Haul Plans?  
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1987 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6494 times:

Hi all, I was trying to find an old thread about this for clarifying dates, types and routes expected, but I failed ( as usual    ). All I can remember is that Norwegian will base its long haul strategy on the 787, but that's all.
Can somebody help me with new info / updates about this ?

Any info will be appreciated.

Thanks !!

G.


80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLGWflyer From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6473 times:

Currently as it stands I assume still that the first 787 will arrive for DY sometime during 2012. I know once they get the Dreamliner, they'll use it for New York and a destination in Asia (sorry can't remember where).


3 words... I Love Aviation!!!
User currently offlinevadheim From Norway, joined Jul 2000, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6404 times:

New York and Bangkok will probably be the first destinations late 2012 or early 2013, probably from Oslo and Stockholm first and/or Copenhagen.

It will be B787


User currently offlineEBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6222 times:

Apparently Rishworth Aviation has started recruiting cabin crew for the 787 operations, so their plans are slowly materializing.

http://check-in.dk/newselement.cfm?nNewsArticleID=55601

I'm still quite skeptical about their long haul move. When Norwegian announced their plans a couple of years back competition was different at OSL. I don't see NYC and BKK as the obvious start-up routes the way they were when Norwegian initially announced their plans.

CO and SK serves the NYC-area and both being *A-carriers they can easily feed the flights from both ends. Norwergian does not have that opportunity. At least not in NYC unless they partner up with a US airline like JetBlue.

Thai has since the plans were revealed started up non-stop on BKK. In addition to Thai Airways there will be several options with both Qatar and (probably) Emirates providing plenty of attractive fares. Passengers originating outside OSL would have to connect anyway and might as well connect in CPH, FRA, AMS or elsewhere.

Demand on both markets have and probably will continue to rise, but supply and competition has increased. Norwegian's long haul plans just doesn't sound like a sustainable plan to me.



Future flights: CPH-BKK-MNL; MNL-GUM-TKK-PNI-KSA-KWA-MAJ-HNL-LAX
User currently offlineNorwegian737 From Norway, joined Mar 2011, 41 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6186 times:

I think they can do well with their long-haul plans.

It is true that competitions has increased at OSL the last few years, but if Norwegian is able to offer the direct flights from OSL/ARN at the low prices they have mentioned, I think a lot of people would prefer to fly with them.

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 3):
Passengers originating outside OSL would have to connect anyway and might as well connect in CPH, FRA, AMS or elsewhere.

How it is now for most people is that they have to fly to AMS/FRA/LHR/CPH/CDG to connect to other/intercontinental flights. However, for most people in Norway, flying to OSL is a much shorter flight than flying to any of these hubs. Also, the OSL-airport is easy to navigate around, so it's not a bad place to have a layover. Another thing is that if you are flying to a hub in Europe (other than OSL) you don't have as many flights to choose from, which can result in departure times at unattractive times or long layovers at some airport. Both Norwegian and SAS have several flights between OSL and the Norwegian airports every day, which makes it easier and more flexible for people to get to an intercontinental flight flying out of OSL.

Norwegian said a while ago that they need to build up a network that feeds the main hub, in order for intercontinental operations to be sustainable. I think they have accomplished this, especially in Norway and Sweden.

Also, since the 787 is a 'smaller' plane, and has lower operating costs, it'll be easier for them to fill their flights, and operate on a low-cost basis, compared to SAS' A330/A340 and CO's 757s...

Even though there are competition, doesn't mean they can't do it. If they can offer flights cheaper than their competitors, people are going to choose them, rather than paying more for the same flight. For most passengers it's all about money and how much you have to pay for the ticket...


User currently offlineEBGflyer From Denmark, joined Sep 2006, 1007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 6010 times:

Quoting Norwegian737 (Reply 4):
However, for most people in Norway, flying to OSL is a much shorter flight than flying to any of these hubs

True, but in many cases one would actually be backtracking ie going from SVG -> OSL -> BRU instead of going SVG -> AMS -> BRU. It is however convenient with the many flights between ie OSL and the regional airports opposed to perhaps 3, 4 or 5 daily rotations between the regional airport and the European hub.

Quoting Norwegian737 (Reply 4):
Also, the OSL-airport is easy to navigate around, so it's not a bad place to have a layover.

It sure is leaving Norway, but quiet annoying on the return trip that you have to clear customs and then go back through security. Many of my Norwegian colleagues in KRS and SVG actually prefer to connect in CPH on their return flight to avoid this.

But anyway, these are just minor things. For a person in ie Stavanger who wants to to Bangkok on vacation, I doubt they think about these things. They have to make at least one stop and they probably look at price. Norwegian will be tapping into the low yielding demand.



Future flights: CPH-BKK-MNL; MNL-GUM-TKK-PNI-KSA-KWA-MAJ-HNL-LAX
User currently onlinesomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3388 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5971 times:

Quoting vadheim (Reply 2):
New York and Bangkok will probably be the first destinations late 2012 or early 2013, probably from Oslo and Stockholm first and/or Copenhagen.

That was the plan before the latest 787 delays, so I think you can add some months to that schedule

Quoting Norwegian737 (Reply 4):
However, for most people in Norway, flying to OSL is a much shorter flight than flying to any of these hubs. Also, the OSL-airport is easy to navigate around, so it's not a bad place to have a layover.

Not when it comes to international-->domestic transfer. As you need to clear customs and recheck you luggage, most people from cities outside Oslo tries to avoid transfer OSL


User currently offlinespeedygonzales From Norway, joined Sep 2007, 732 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5858 times:

Quoting Norwegian737 (Reply 4):
How it is now for most people is that they have to fly to AMS/FRA/LHR/CPH/CDG to connect to other/intercontinental flights. However, for most people in Norway, flying to OSL is a much shorter flight than flying to any of these hubs. Also, the OSL-airport is easy to navigate around, so it's not a bad place to have a layover. Another thing is that if you are flying to a hub in Europe (other than OSL) you don't have as many flights to choose from, which can result in departure times at unattractive times or long layovers at some airport. Both Norwegian and SAS have several flights between OSL and the Norwegian airports every day, which makes it easier and more flexible for people to get to an intercontinental flight flying out of OSL.

OSL sucks, and I avoid that dump like the plague. Starting from TRD, connecting at AMS (my first choice), CPH, ARN or HEL is worth both higher ticket price and longer total travel time compared to connecting at OSL.



Las Malvinas son Argentinas
User currently offlinearn777 From Sweden, joined Jul 2010, 201 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5768 times:

Quoting someone83 (Reply 6):
Not when it comes to international-->domestic transfer. As you need to clear customs and recheck you luggage, most people from cities outside Oslo tries to avoid transfer OSL

This will luckly be history in about 12-18 months .


User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6816 posts, RR: 34
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5711 times:

Quoting Norwegian737 (Reply 4):
Norwegian said a while ago that they need to build up a network that feeds the main hub, in order for intercontinental operations to be sustainable. I think they have accomplished this, especially in Norway and Sweden.

Respectfully, there is still an issue with the local market size just not being large enough to sustain itself as a true hub. I just don't see it happening.

OSL with 1.4M people in metro area is about in between the size os JAX and MKE in the US....as a means of comparison.

[Edited 2011-12-13 08:03:23]

User currently offlinearn777 From Sweden, joined Jul 2010, 201 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5623 times:

Quoting slider (Reply 9):
OSL with 1.4M people in metro area is about in between the size os JAX and MKE in the US....as a means of comparison.


What a terrible comparison...

[Edited 2011-12-13 08:50:39]

User currently offlineFilipair From United States of America, joined May 2010, 76 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5464 times:

Quoting arn777 (Reply 10):

Quoting slider (Reply 9):
OSL with 1.4M people in metro area is about in between the size os JAX and MKE in the US....as a means of comparison.

What a terrible comparison...

As a resident of Milwaukee, and having been to both Jacksonville and Oslo, I wholeheartedly agree. In all seriousness, Europeans are much more internationally mobile than Americans, in addition to Oslo being the capital and largest city in Norway, overall generating much more international and longhaul traffic than either MKE or JAX.


User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9641 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5370 times:

I think NAS is targeting a different market as they will be one of the few long haul low cost carriers with a Premium Economy/ Economy configuration similar to Jetstar and Air AsiaX.

Quoting Norwegian737 (Reply 4):

Also, since the 787 is a 'smaller' plane, and has lower operating costs, it'll be easier for them to fill their flights, and operate on a low-cost basis, compared to SAS' A330/A340 and CO's 757s...

Actually in their Economy/Premium Economy configuration, they'll have to most seats to sell as they'll have more seats than SAS.

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 3):

CO and SK serves the NYC-area and both being *A-carriers they can easily feed the flights from both ends. Norwergian does not have that opportunity. At least not in NYC unless they partner up with a US airline like JetBlue.

I'd expect them to go for routes with enough O/D to not need feed.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineCheco77 From Peru, joined Oct 2004, 1345 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4622 times:

Quoting arn777 (Reply 10):

What a terrible comparison...

Totally agree with you, I laughted at this comparison  

Adam



Czech Boeing lover living in Lima
User currently onlinesomeone83 From Norway, joined Sep 2006, 3388 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3108 times:

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 12):
Actually in their Economy/Premium Economy configuration, they'll have to most seats to sell as they'll have more seats than SAS

Yes, it will most likely be close to 300 seats, vs 265 on SAS' 330-300

However, neither SAS og CO has trouble filling their planes to NYC from OSL


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