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OAG Changes 12/16/2011: AC/DL/F9/SY/US  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7195 posts, RR: 13
Posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6521 times:

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5 days out of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

5H LWA-NYK JAN 0.8>0.7 FEB 0.9>0.8 MAR 0.9>0.7

9K ACK-BOS MAY 12>10
9K ACK-EWB MAY 6>4
9K ACK-HPN MAY 1.2>0
9K AUG-BOS MAY 1.3>4
9K BOS-MVY MAY 11>8
9K BOS-PVC MAY 9>4
9K BOS-RKD MAY 5>3
9K EWB-MVY MAY 4>3

AC ABE-YYZ JAN 1.4>1.1
AC ALB-YYZ JAN 1.5>1.2
AC BDL-YYZ JAN 4>3
AC BOS-YHZ JAN 1.9>1.7
AC CLT-YYZ JAN 1.7>1.5
AC CVG-YYZ JAN 1.5>1.3
AC DTW-YYZ FEB 3>4 MAR 3>4 APR 3>4
AC FLL-YYZ JUN 1.0>1.4 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2
AC GRR-YYZ JAN 1.6>1.3
AC IND-YYZ JAN 1.7>1.5
AC LGA-YYZ FEB 12>13
AC MCO-YUL JAN 2>1.7
AC MCO-YYZ JAN 5>4
AC MDT-YYZ JAN 1.6>1.3
AC MKE-YYZ JAN 1.5>1.4
AC PBI-YYZ JAN 1.5>1.3 APR 1.6>1.0
AC PHX-YYZ JAN 2>1.9
AC PVD-YYZ JAN 1.5>1.2
AC RIC-YYZ JAN 1.5>1.3
AC ROC-YYZ JAN 1.6>1.4
AC RSW-YYZ JAN 3>2.0 APR 3>2
AC SYR-YYZ JAN 1.7>1.5
AC TPA-YYZ JAN 2>1.7

AF IAD-CDG APR 2>1.7 MAY 2>1.7
AF ORD-CDG APR 1.0>0.7 MAY 1.0>0.7
AF SFO-CDG MAY 1.1>1.4

AM FAT-GDL JAN 0.7>0.5
AM MIA-MEX MAR 6>4 APR 6>4 MAY 6>4 JUN 6>4 JUL 6>4 AUG 6>4
AM ORD-MTY FEB 0.6>0

*AS PDX-LGB APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0

BA JFK-LCY AUG 1.6>0.9

CA LAX-PEK APR 2>1.6 MAY 2>1.6

*DL ATL-AMS APR 1.0>1.2 MAY 1.0>2 JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3
DL ATL-GSO MAR 10>11
DL ATL-VPS MAR 9>10
DL CVG-SEA JAN 0.6>0.4
DL GUM-KIX APR 1.1>1.2 MAY 1.0>1.2
DL JFK-AGP JUN 1.0>0.7 JUL 1.0>0.7 AUG 1.0>0.7
DL JFK-VLC JUN 1.0>0.6 JUL 1.0>0.5 AUG 1.0>0.6
DL MSP-CZM APR 0.3>0.1
DL MSP-MZT APR 0.3>0.1
DL MSP-PVR APR 0.4>0.3
DL MSP-ZIH APR 0.3>0.1
DL SLC-SJD JUN 0.8>0.7

What is this? Is it really an Uzbek airline?
*EC IAD-ORY JAN 0.7>0 FEB 0.8>0 MAR 0.7>0 APR 0.7>0 MAY 0.7>0 JUN 0.7>0 JUL 0.7>0 AUG 0.7>0

Just 4 LAX flights in March. At least they realized 3 MDW was too low.
F9 DEN-LAX MAR 6>4 APR 6>5
F9 DEN-MDW MAR 3>4 APR 3>4
This is a USA3000 converted flights that is mostly bought by Apple Vacations.
*F9 STL-CUN FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>0.6 MAY 0>0.6 JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>0.2

*HA HNL-FUK APR 0>0.5 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0
*HA HNL-LAX JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3

JL ROR-NRT JAN 0>0.2

KL IAH-AMS JAN 1.4>1.2 FEB 1.5>1.0 MAR 1.5>1.2

LX ORD-ZRH JUN 1.0>1.5 JUL 1.0>1.6 AUG 1.0>1.5

MU LAX-PVG JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0.7>1.0

OZ LAX-PHL MAY 0>0.7

I believe these are just typical seasonal moves.
SY LAS-MSP MAY 0>1.5 JUN 0>1.3 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0
SY MSP-SFO MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.4 JUL 0>1.6 AUG 0>1.6

TS FLL-YUL MAY 0>0.1 JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.2 AUG 0>0.1
TS FLL-YYZ MAY 0>0.1 JUN 0>0.2 JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.1
TS MCO-YUL MAY 0>0.3 JUN 0>0.4 JUL 0>0.4 AUG 0>0.4
TS MCO-YYZ MAY 0>0.4 JUN 0>0.4 JUL 0>0.5 AUG 0>0.4

US CLT-DEN MAY 5>6
US CLT-IAH APR 7>8 MAY 7>8 JUN 7>8 JUL 7>8
US CLT-MCO JUN 9>8 JUL 9>8
US CLT-MIA APR 7>6 MAY 7>6 JUN 7>6 JUL 7>6
US CLT-MSP APR 3>4 MAY 3>4 JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4
US CLT-RSW MAY 7>5 JUN 7>4 JUL 7>4 AUG 7>6
US DCA-FLL MAY 5>4 JUN 5>3 JUL 5>3 AUG 5>4
US PHL-FLL MAY 6>5 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4
US PHL-SMF MAY 0.3>0.9
US PHX-HNL APR 3>1.7
US PHX-YEG MAY 1.1>1.7

Do328 equipment
*V2 ATL-SDF FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0
V2 CKB-SFB JAN 0.3>0.1
V2 CMI-PGD JAN 0.3>0.1
V2 FLL-SDF JAN 0.6>0.2
V2 PGD-SDF JAN 0.3>0.1
V2 SDF-SFB JAN 0.3>0.1

VB LAS-MTY JAN 0.5>0.7
VB MDW-MTY JAN 0.4>0.1

WG FLL-YYZ APR 0>0.4
WG LAS-YYZ APR 0>0.3
WG MCO-YYZ MAR 0.5>0.7 APR 0>0.7
WG PIE-YYZ APR 0>0.3

*WN BDL-RSW MAR 0>1.0
*WN BWI-TUS MAR 0>1.0
*WN PVD-RSW MAR 0>1.0

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6399 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
What is this? Is it really an Uzbek airline?
*EC IAD-ORY JAN 0.7>0 FEB 0.8>0 MAR 0.7>0 APR 0.7>0 MAY 0.7>0 JUN 0.7>0 JUL 0.7>0 AUG 0.7>0

It's OpenSkies that pulled out of IAD back in October.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL ATL-AMS APR 1.0>1.2 MAY 1.0>2 JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3

Capacity to help replace the declining MEM-AMS flight.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AF IAD-CDG APR 2>1.7 MAY 2>1.7

Interesting that on some days of the week AF will only have one flight to IAD.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3471 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6230 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL MSP-CZM APR 0.3>0.1
DL MSP-MZT APR 0.3>0.1
DL MSP-PVR APR 0.4>0.3
DL MSP-ZIH APR 0.3>0.1
DL SLC-SJD JUN 0.8>0.7

No shock here to see Mexican resort reductions. Alot of Mexico routes are really struggling and alot of hotels, organizations, and cities are fighting to push packages hard to get people in. Mexicotaxiproject.com is one that is spending a ton of money and i see the ads constantly on shows i watch. Im not really sure this is the best advertising when taxis were being open fired on and their tourist passengers were being killed in Acapulco this year.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7195 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6133 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 1):
It's OpenSkies that pulled out of IAD back in October.

Ahhhh...how many routes are left?

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 1):
Capacity to help replace the declining MEM-AMS flight.

Probably true...

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 2):
No shock here to see Mexican resort reductions. Alot of Mexico routes are really struggling and alot of hotels, organizations, and cities are fighting to push packages hard to get people in. Mexicotaxiproject.com is one that is spending a ton of money and i see the ads constantly on shows i watch. Im not really sure this is the best advertising when taxis were being open fired on and their tourist passengers were being killed in Acapulco this year.

Sad, though. April is getting really axed this year to leisure destinations everywhere because of how Easter falls. SJD and CZM are quite safe. You are right about poor ACA. It makes me sick...and drags MZT/ZIH/PVR in with them. Each of those have only had sporadic problems, but are geographically close to the drug war. Baja and the Yucatan really are not...yet.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3082 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5894 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 3):
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 1):
Capacity to help replace the declining MEM-AMS flight.

Probably true...

Well, DL hasn't cut MEM-AMS yet despite everyone's predictions. They've apparently permanently cut SLC-NRT (between two of their hubs or focus cities) and many other flights, but not yet MEM-AMS. One would think maybe that if they intended to cut it, they already would have. Maybe that flight has a profitable niche at four days a week, and is worth keeping?


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5838 times:
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Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
This is a USA3000 converted flights that is mostly bought by Apple Vacations.
*F9 STL-CUN FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>0.6 MAY 0>0.6 JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>0.2

Frontier has flown scheduled STL-CUN since 2005.

http://media.frontierairlines.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=4448

"DENVER (Feb. 25, 2005) - Frontier Airlines (Nasdaq: FRNT) will conclude its Countdown to Cancun today, as the airline begins much-anticipated service between Lambert-St. Louis International Airport (STL) and Cancun International Airport (CUN)."

It has always been in conjunction with Apple, as several (most?) of the Mexican routes are.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7195 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5708 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 4):
Well, DL hasn't cut MEM-AMS yet despite everyone's predictions.

Cut means "to reduce" in this context and yes they have reduced MEM-AMS from 7 to 4/week even in the Summer.

Quoting mariner (Reply 5):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
This is a USA3000 converted flights that is mostly bought by Apple Vacations.
*F9 STL-CUN FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>0.6 MAY 0>0.6 JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>0.2

Frontier has flown scheduled STL-CUN since 2005.

It is also a route that was flown by USA3000. The fact they put it out for sale with only 45 days till February starts tells me that Apple is taking nearly the whole airplane. My comment is accurate.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5663 times:
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Quoting enilria (Reply 6):
The fact they put it out for sale with only 45 days till February starts tells me that Apple is taking nearly the whole airplane. My comment is accurate.

Apple may be.

Apple may have taken "nearly the whole airplane" on STL-CUN last year, too, and the year before. Apple takes a fair bunch of IND-CUN and SLC-CUN, and a few others.

The simple fact remains that Frontier did not have to apply to the DOT for a new STL-CUN scheduled authority because it already has one.

mariner

[Edited 2011-12-14 09:44:17]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3082 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5491 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 6):
Cut means "to reduce" in this context and yes they have reduced MEM-AMS from 7 to 4/week even in the Summer.

Understand, but it seems to be popular consesus that DL will "cut" MEM-AMS as in permanently discontinue it. I was pointing out that it hasn't happened yet, and they haven't been shy about discontinuing other routes completely, even including SLC-NRT.

You know, people think that DL will can MEM-AMS soon just like you keep stating that DL will buy out AS soon, right?  


User currently offlinejetskipper From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 5145 times:

Wow! Swiss is going double daily to ORD a few times a week. I can't ever remember more than a daily flight to Chicago.

User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3082 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4994 times:

Quoting jetskipper (Reply 9):
Wow! Swiss is going double daily to ORD a few times a week. I can't ever remember more than a daily flight to Chicago.

AA and Swiss have each had one daily flight ZRH-ORD in years past, back when they were code-share partners. AA moved the ZRH flight to DFW in June 2000, but brought it back seasonally at lease one subsequent Summer. So at those times, there was more than a daily flight to ORD, at least by the code-share partners.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 2 weeks ago) and read 4510 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 8):
Quoting enilria (Reply 6):
Cut means "to reduce" in this context and yes they have reduced MEM-AMS from 7 to 4/week even in the Summer.

Understand, but it seems to be popular consesus that DL will "cut" MEM-AMS as in permanently discontinue it. I was pointing out that it hasn't happened yet, and they haven't been shy about discontinuing other routes completely, even including SLC-NRT.

You know, people think that DL will can MEM-AMS soon just like you keep stating that DL will buy out AS soon, right?

The change in frequency on ATL-AMS has almost nothing to do with MEM.

Remember last week, when DL reduced a frequency on ATL-CDG, now they've added a ATL-AMS.

However, one needs to look at the AF/KLM flights in the market too since with the JV they are reshuffling routes and flights for 2012.

ATL-AMS:
April: 2x Total, 1x DL 333, 1x KL 777
May: 3x Total, 1x DL 332, 1x DL 333, 1x KL 772
June-Aug: 4x Total, 1x DL 763, 1x DL 332, 1x DL 333, 1x KL 772

ATL-CDG:
April: 4x Total, 2x DL 763, 2x AF 772
May: 4x Total, 2x DL 763, 2x AF 772
June-Aug: 3x Total, 1x DL 762, 1x AF 772, 1x AF 77W


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3283 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3945 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AS PDX-LGB APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0

When AS/QX pulled this route last time, I read somewhere on A.net they would never serve this market again, what impact if any, will this have on the B6 flights? Glad to see it back, when they first started LGB, used to be M80's with a SFO stop.

Will this be a Q400 or a OO CRJ?

[Edited 2011-12-15 03:03:55]


AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7195 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3496 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
The simple fact remains that Frontier did not have to apply to the DOT for a new STL-CUN scheduled authority because it already has one.

Didn't say they would, but it wasn't for sale for that period until now and it is clearly part of the Apple relationship. One can gather that they did not intend to sell it under their own brand this year until this Apple deal came along. That probably means that Apple is taking a lot more seats than last year.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 8):
Understand, but it seems to be popular consesus that DL will "cut" MEM-AMS as in permanently discontinue it.

Well, I think it is consensus that they will close the hub...if they haven't already and AMS is heavily dependent on connections so I would not expect it will survive when MEM gets down to 50 or 60 departures.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 8):
You know, people think that DL will can MEM-AMS soon just like you keep stating that DL will buy out AS soon, right?

DL has tried to buy AS and has been rebuffed. I think it will take multiple bidders to change the status quo at AS.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 12):
When AS/QX pulled this route last time, I read somewhere on A.net they would never serve this market again, what impact if any, will this have on the B6 flights? Glad to see it back, when they first started LGB, used to be M80's with a SFO stop.

I'm hearing that the flight is resuming to signal displeasure with B6 for bringing back ANC for 2012.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 12):
Will this be a Q400 or a OO CRJ?

CR7


User currently offlineBlueman87 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 535 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3397 times:

is DL JFK-NCE Flight cut Perm Cut or just went seasonal???


B6 T5 JFK DL T2/3 JFK
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7195 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3277 times:

Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 14):

is DL JFK-NCE Flight cut Perm Cut or just went seasonal???

Right now it resumes 3/23/2012 I believe.


User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4911 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3256 times:
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Quoting Blueman87 (Reply 14):
is DL JFK-NCE Flight cut Perm Cut or just went seasonal???

Seasonal. Last flight from NCE will be Jan 9; first flight back to NCE will be on 24 March with the 767-400ER (last year, the 764 didn't restart until June)....and yours truly will be on it!  


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25292 posts, RR: 85
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3094 times:
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Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
Didn't say they would, but it wasn't for sale for that period until now and it is clearly part of the Apple relationship. One can gather that they did not intend to sell it under their own brand this year until this Apple deal came along. That probably means that Apple is taking a lot more seats than last year.

It's always been part of the Apple relationship. STL-CUN has always been "in conjunction" with Apple Vacations.

I don't know why it is an issue.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3082 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
DL has tried to buy AS and has been rebuffed.

First of all, you are the only person who has ever stated this on A.net. With all due respect, I'm not seeing any proof that DL really tried to buy AS.

Secondly, I still don't see who it would benefit other than DL executives, and of course WN and UA. Consumers would loose, AS employees would lose, the Pacific Northwest region would loose. I still think that anyone is naive if they don't think this would result in a fairly quick bloodbath of AS's route.

I'm sure there is no-body who would rather see DL buy AS and then gut their routes, than WN.


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3283 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2587 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
I'm hearing that the flight is resuming to signal displeasure with B6 for bringing back ANC for 2012

Wow, not much of a retaliation on AS's part. If AS wants to hit B6 in the nads, they need to find a bigger target market than PDX-LGB, which both AS & QX operated, then pulled out of due to low load factors. Thanks for the info though.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7195 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2448 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 18):
First of all, you are the only person who has ever stated this on A.net. With all due respect, I'm not seeing any proof that DL really tried to buy AS.

That may be, but it is still true. I've had it confirmed by multiple people on both sides. There isn't a public paper trail to such things as you know. OTOH, such conversations at the executive levels are commonplace. AA and UA talked about merging 3 or 4 years ago. At any given moment there are probably 3 merger deals being quietly worked on just in the U.S. industry. 90% never see the light of day. That's probably also true of every other industry. It is not uncommon for companies to have departments that do nothing but M&A analysis. At airlines, it is usually not separate groups but financial planning and route planning spend a fraction of their time on such things at every airline.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 18):
Secondly, I still don't see who it would benefit other than DL executives, and of course WN and UA. Consumers would loose, AS employees would lose, the Pacific Northwest region would loose. I still think that anyone is naive if they don't think this would result in a fairly quick bloodbath of AS's route.
I'm sure there is no-body who would rather see DL buy AS and then gut their routes, than WN.

In general, mergers never benefit the consumer. They are for the benefit of the shareholders and maybe the senior execs, not really anybody else. That doesn't mean they don't happen. The FL-WN deal was good for nobody other than maybe the AirTran shareholders.

I think DL really wants LAX and also desires SEA for their Pacific operation. It may also be a way to close SLC which I think is the next hub they wish to "fix" after CVG and MEM. They can't close SLC because it is geographically unique, but building up LAX and getting SEA basically change that. So, yet again it is a merger that results in consolidation, but isn't that what all mergers do? I think PDX gets wiped off the map in such a deal and my hope would be that the ANC hub is spun-off because I don't think DL wants it even if it makes money. Too much operational complexity and political issues.

WN would probably grab PDX and increase in SLC if that all happened. Such is life...

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 19):
Wow, not much of a retaliation on AS's part. If AS wants to hit B6 in the nads, they need to find a bigger target market than PDX-LGB, which both AS & QX operated, then pulled out of due to low load factors. Thanks for the info though.

Well, AS is not the type of airline that adds JFK-FLL to prove a point and good for them for not doing that kind of stuff. I think they know that B6 wants every slot at LGB in order to block all competitive threats and grabbing a slot is a small poke in the eye. It's probably more about the slot than the route.


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OAG Changes 11/11/2011: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA/US posted Tue Nov 8 2011 06:18:26 by enilria
OAG Changes 8/27/2010:AA/AC/AS/F9/NK/UA/US/WN posted Wed Aug 25 2010 06:19:46 by enilria
OAG Changes 11/6/09: AM/CO/DL/F9/FL/HA/MX/NW/UA/US posted Fri Nov 6 2009 07:41:14 by Enilria
OAG Changes 7/17/09: B6/CO/DL/F9/FL/NK/NW/UA/US/YV posted Thu Jul 16 2009 06:30:52 by Enilria
OAG Changes 12/31/2010: Big DL Change posted Wed Dec 29 2010 10:29:38 by enilria
OAG Changes 8/6/2010: AA(Big Shift), DL, F9, NK posted Wed Aug 4 2010 18:57:00 by enilria
OAG Changes 12/3/2010:CO/UA/DL/F9/FL/NK/WS posted Tue Nov 30 2010 07:28:06 by enilria
OAG Changes 8/20/2010:AA/B6/DL/F9/FL/US/VX/WS/YV posted Wed Aug 18 2010 06:42:26 by enilria
OAG Changes 2/12/2010: AA/AC/CO/DL/F9/FL/UA/US posted Fri Feb 12 2010 13:55:18 by enilria
OAG Changes 11/11/2011: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA/US posted Tue Nov 8 2011 06:18:26 by enilria
OAG Changes 8/27/2010:AA/AC/AS/F9/NK/UA/US/WN posted Wed Aug 25 2010 06:19:46 by enilria
OAG Changes 11/6/09: AM/CO/DL/F9/FL/HA/MX/NW/UA/US posted Fri Nov 6 2009 07:41:14 by Enilria
OAG Changes 7/17/09: B6/CO/DL/F9/FL/NK/NW/UA/US/YV posted Thu Jul 16 2009 06:30:52 by Enilria
OAG Changes 12/31/2010: Big DL Change posted Wed Dec 29 2010 10:29:38 by enilria